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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (12 Viewers)

Widbil83 said:
I think we should start calling it the New York virus. This guy is the absolute worst. How many thousands of elderly folks in New York nursing lost their lives because of this guy? 

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gov-cuomo-doubles-down-on-european-virus-no-one-knew-it-was-coming-from-europe/
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This defies logic. A lot of people came from Europe carrying the virus to NY, no doubt. But guess where the virus came from that infected those Europeans Governor.  

And you're exactly right, by that logic. 93% of the cases on the west coast and the south came from NY. 78% in the midwest came from NY.  40%+ on the west coast came from NY even though the first recorded case was in WA......AND the west coast actually has direct flights from China.  NY is responsible for infecting the vast majority of Americans.  

 
Speaking of China. They got caught trying to hack the companies we have working on the vaccine. That begs a bunch of questions.  

 
tonydead said:
Hundreds of people gathering. Mostly old people. Served by hospitality workers. The parking lot had 300 cars waiting to get in. 

You want me arrested for not wearing a mask, yet you make excuses for them.  Unreal.  
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Not making excuses for anyone. I don’t think they should be opening up a casino right now, and I don’t think you should be going around without a mask. I feel bad for everyone who’s suffering right now whether because of the economy, the virus, or both. 

But I want you and them to be safe. 

 
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Widbil83 said:
I think we should start calling it the New York virus. This guy is the absolute worst. How many thousands of elderly folks in New York nursing lost their lives because of this guy? 

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gov-cuomo-doubles-down-on-european-virus-no-one-knew-it-was-coming-from-europe/
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First off he’s right about Europe. 

Second, he made mistakes to start out with, some pretty bad ones. He admits it. Over the past month he’s been tremendous, probably the single best public leader in America at the current time (though Newsom is up there as well.) What makes Cuomo great is how he has reacted to his mistakes. He hasn’t doubled down on them. He’s admitted them, strived to do better, and hasn’t allowed his ego to get in the way. He’s been awesome. 

 
timschochet said:
Not making excuses for anyone. I don’t think they should be opening up a casino right now, and I don’t think you should be going around without a mask. I feel bad for everyone who’s suffering right now whether because of the economy, the virus, or both. 

But I want you and them to be safe. 
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There should be a law forcing them to shut down the casino. Full Stop.  Yes?

 
squistion said:
So now Cuomo as Governor of NY is responsible, like he was in charge of the national response to this pandemic?
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Using his own logic, yes. Its demonstratable, I demonstrated it.

Any thoughts on the hospitality workers forced back to work by the Native American casinos?  And all the elderly people packed into those casinos?

 
timschochet said:
Yes. From the beginning I have called on President Trump to declare a national shelter in place. Absolutely full stop. 
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No you didnt. You told everyone to go out and get infected.  Good thing Trump didn't listen to you. 

 
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tonydead said:
Using his own logic, yes. Its demonstratable, I demonstrated it.

Any thoughts on the hospitality workers forced back to work by the Native American casinos?  And all the elderly people packed into those casinos?
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Native Americans is a deflection on your part and irrelevant to what was being discussed.

 
tonydead said:
No you didnt. You told everyone to go out and get infected.  Good thing Trump didn't listen to you. 
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That part is true. I didn’t understand the severity of the disease. So correction: from the time there was serious discussion of shelter in place I called on Trump to impose it. 

 
timschochet said:
The part of me that wants to see Trump lose the  election would love to see this happen. 

But the much bigger part of me that doesn’t want greater harm to befall this nation really hopes it doesn’t. 
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Youre probably right.  The media has built this guy up to be godlike.  He makes mistakes and has done so multiple times in the past.  Gots to go.

 
GoBirds said:
As an Independent, it’s unusual to see so many in here that claim to be Independent spend hours on end basing our POTUS and being on the opposite end of issues 100% of the time. 
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You can be an independent and lean to a specific side or not like a certain candidate. I’d consider myself a left leaning independent but the main reasons I hate Trump really aren’t even due to politics (because I think both sides are bad when it comes to actual politics), it’s mainly due to what a garbage person he is and his lack of leadership. That being said, even though I lean more left I still don’t want to identify with the Democratic Party as they’ve shown to be hypocritical in order to get more power and they aren’t willing to make any real changes to help the people who need it the most.

My mom is the same way, she used to flip between R’s and D’s on the local elections and never was stuck on either side for the Presidential elections, but now that Trump is in office she is writing Democrat down the whole ballot for 2020.

 
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GoBirds said:
As an Independent, it’s unusual to see so many in here that claim to be Independent spend hours on end basing our POTUS and being on the opposite end of issues 100% of the time. 
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:goodposting:

You’re not an independent if you spend more time in here trashing President Trump than actual Democrats.

It’s one of the phoniest shticks going here these days. I have more respect for the biggest left wingers on this forum than these fake independents. 

 
timschochet said:
Yes. From the beginning I have called on President Trump to declare a national shelter in place. Absolutely full stop. 
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You are so damn hypocritical.

From the beginning, President Trump been called a "dictator"....an "authoritarian"".
The Left has been whining and crying that he is a tyrant and a totalitarian and a despot.

He doesn't impose a national order and you lose your mind because he is NOT being an authoritarian, a dictator....a tyrant...a despot.
He lets the States decide their course of action  while supporting them in their decision, giving them whatever they ask for..

You are just so obvious.

 
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Opie said:
You are so damn hypocritical.

From the beginning, President Trump been called a "dictator"....an "authoritarian"".
The Left has been whining and crying that he is a tyrant and a totalitarian and a despot.

He doesn't impose a national order and you lose your mind because he is NOT being an authoritarian, a dictator....a tyrant...a despot.
He lets the States decide their course of action  while supporting them in their decision, giving them whatever they ask for..

You are just so obvious.
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I have a very very short ignore list.  But Tim is going on it.  Should have done it a long time ago. 

 
Widbil83 said:
:goodposting:

You’re not an independent if you spend more time in here trashing President Trump than actual Democrats.

It’s one of the phoniest shticks going here these days. I have more respect for the biggest left wingers on this forum than these fake independents. 
Click to expand...
But it provides great laughs for us during these challenging times if you want a positive?

 
tonydead said:
Less than 5 minutes later. 
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Put me on ignore and you won’t be able to mock me anymore. 

President Trump should impose a national shelter in place. He should have done it a long time ago. And yes I was wrong at the start of this; I had bad info. All of this is true. Full stop. 

 
Opie said:
You are so damn hypocritical.

From the beginning, President Trump been called a "dictator"....an "authoritarian"".
The Left has been whining and crying that he is a tyrant and a totalitarian and a despot.

He doesn't impose a national order and you lose your mind because he is NOT being an authoritarian, a dictator....a tyrant...a despot.
He lets the States decide their course of action  while supporting them in their decision, giving them whatever they ask for..

You are just so obvious.
Click to expand...
No hypocrisy. The President can and should be authoritarian on issues of public health and national security. That is the proper role of the federal government. He should avoid being authoritarian on other issues. 

 
timschochet said:
Put me on ignore and you won’t be able to mock me anymore. 

President Trump should impose a national shelter in place. He should have done it a long time ago. And yes I was wrong at the start of this; I had bad info. All of this is true. Full stop. 
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Tim, as you have been told before he doesn't have the power to do that due to that because of that pesky Constitution and State's right sovereignty. This is why Trump can't force states to reopen things on his timetable, as he couldn't have forced them impose that in the first place. 

 
squistion said:
Tim, as you have been told before he doesn't have the power to do that due to that because of that pesky Constitution and State's right sovereignty. This is why Trump can't force states to reopen things on his timetable, as he couldn't have forced them impose that in the first place. 
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Yes I have been told that before and I’m not convinced it’s true. The courts have granted the President huge powers during times of national emergency. 

 
Can you imagine the meltdown by the left had Trump shut down the entire country at the same time he shut down travel from China?  Or even a month later when most of them were still in denial.

 
timschochet said:
Put me on ignore and you won’t be able to mock me anymore. 

President Trump should impose a national shelter in place. He should have done it a long time ago. And yes I was wrong at the start of this; I had bad info. All of this is true. Full stop. 
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Yup.

This was the time that Trump really could have shown  the country the benefits of his supposed "Alpha/No Nonsense/Git Er Done/Roll Up Our Sleeves/Successful Businessman" personality.  One way or the other.  If he wanted to take the "Shut the country down for three weeks in March to get a handle on this" tact....fine.  If he wanted to take the "We ain't shutting #### down....Americans are tougher than that....Come to my rallies....we'll show these people there's nothing to fear" tact.....fine.

His leadership in this has been the worst kind of waffling and it has undermined what we were told was so great about him. 

 
tonydead said:
Can you imagine the meltdown by the left had Trump shut down the entire country at the same time he shut down travel from China?  Or even a month later when most of them were still in denial.
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A moot point as he lacks the power to shut down the entire country. He could suggest every state take that action, but he does not have the power to enforce it. 

 
tonydead said:
Can you imagine the meltdown by the left had Trump shut down the entire country at the same time he shut down travel from China?  Or even a month later when most of them were still in denial.
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Let them meltdown.  Why, as a leader, should he worry about the opposition...unless his whole thought process was to "how can I steer thru this to get re-elected?"

You guys do realize that if he came out at the beginning and dismissed his own re-election chances in order to get this thing under control....it would actually increase his chances for re-election?

He played politics and got stuck.  He should have led, regardless if those who hate him would have hated him even more for it.  

 
tonydead said:
Can you imagine the meltdown by the left had Trump shut down the entire country at the same time he shut down travel from China?  Or even a month later when most of them were still in denial.
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:goodposting:   Dem Governors would have acted completely opposite of how they did, to despite Trump, in all the states that just happen to be the Hot Spots.  WA, NY, CA.  Imagine the magnitude of the problem we would have, right now, had Trump not led them to believe they were in charge and let them act on their own accord against this disaster.  That's 12D chessmanship right there.  

And history is repeating himself in letting them think it's their idea to open up the states to save the economy.  Imagine the disaster we would have if Trump tried to tell them we need to be shut down until August or longer.  The vast majority of the states taking measure to open up as quickly as possible.

 
timschochet said:
Put me on ignore and you won’t be able to mock me anymore. 

President Trump should impose a national shelter in place. He should have done it a long time ago. And yes I was wrong at the start of this; I had bad info. All of this is true. Full stop. 
Click to expand...
A national response doesn't make sense.  It's a regional issue.  New York has been slammed, New Jersey has been slammed, Seattle has been slammed.  Some states haven't been.  

When we started closing things, it was to flatten the curve.  That was the plan.  Let's make it so that hospital systems aren't overwhelmed.  Let's get the hospitals more ventilators and PPE.  

And that was easy enough to get behind.  Italy has to choose who lives and dies.  There aren't enough ventilators in Italy.  But flattening the curve doesn't mean stopping the disease.  

And now people are acting appalled that we'd re-open the country and risk spreading this.  It's going to spread.  So will the next virus and the next.  People can't pay their bills.  People are having to decide between paying the light bill and buying food for their kids.  Businesses are closing forever.  Most alarmingly, we're seeing an uptick in domestic violence cases.  There are real life consequences to keeping things closed.  It's not "free."  If it was as easy as everything is great, just stay at home and be merry--sure.  But there's unfortunately more to consider.  At some point, we have to let people make their own decision.  

When I look at the graph for KY, the curve has been flattened.  The curve for the US has been flattened, but again, it shouldn't be a national issue.  That being said, NY's curve has significantly flattened.  

 
tonydead said:
:goodposting:   Dem Governors would have acted completely opposite of how they did, to despite Trump, in all the states that just happen to be the Hot Spots.  WA, NY, CA.  Imagine the magnitude of the problem we would have, right now, had Trump not led them to believe they were in charge and let them act on their own accord against this disaster.  That's 12D chessmanship right there.  

And history is repeating himself in letting them think it's their idea to open up the states to save the economy.  Imagine the disaster we would have if Trump tried to tell them we need to be shut down until August or longer.  The vast majority of the states taking measure to open up as quickly as possible.
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:goodposting:   And you just watch, he's learned the Dem playbook.  Memorized it.  It's not that hard, it's only one sentence, "Oppose Trump At All Costs".  As soon as the time comes where we need to be completely open, and WA or CA is still prolonging the stupid stay at home orders he will tweet out "California really needs to extend their stay at home, past November" and California will be fully open the very next day.  Genius really, when you really think about it.

 
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squistion said:
A moot point as he lacks the power to shut down the entire country. He could suggest every state take that action, but he does not have the power to enforce it. 
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It's not moot.  All he has to do is tweet the opposite of whatever the Dems should do and they will unknowingly say "how high?".  Did I mention Twitter says you can work from home, forever?

 
tonydead said:
:goodposting:   Dem Governors would have acted completely opposite of how they did, to despite Trump, in all the states that just happen to be the Hot Spots.  WA, NY, CA.  Imagine the magnitude of the problem we would have, right now, had Trump not led them to believe they were in charge and let them act on their own accord against this disaster.  That's 12D chessmanship right there.  

And history is repeating himself in letting them think it's their idea to open up the states to save the economy.  Imagine the disaster we would have if Trump tried to tell them we need to be shut down until August or longer.  The vast majority of the states taking measure to open up as quickly as possible.
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So Trump is now the master of reverse psychology?  :mellow:

He led Cuomo and Newsome to believe they are in charge, because, under the Constitution, they are. 

 
tonydead said:
:goodposting:   And you just watch, he's learned the Dem playbook.  Memorized it.  It's not that hard, it's only one sentence, "Oppose Trump At All Costs".  As soon as the time comes where we need to be completely open, and WA or CA is still prolonging the stupid stay at home orders he will tweet out "California really needs to extend their stay at home, past November" and California will be fully open the very next day.  Genius really.
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Despite my strong disagreement with both your arguments and underlying  assumptions, I have to give you credit for not only quoting yourself but giving yourself a  :goodposting: . That takes a certain amount of chutzpah. 

 
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