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2 hours ago, NREC34 said:

Hey Sheik. Imagine that you were pitching in college again. The only way you can afford to go is with your baseball scholarship. 

You go out for a start and get rocked. You end up losing your scholarship. Later you find out that every hitter you faced knew what pitch was coming due to illegal sign stealing. 

Would your opinion of it not being a big deal still be the same?

Now let me ask you a question:

Say you were pitching against a team that there had been rumors for years about them possibly trying to steal catcher's signs.  Would you try to encrypt your signs?  Or would you just keep plodding away with the single finger signal and hope they weren't breaking the rules?

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This did not age well. 

If you were cheating and Fernando Rodney still got you out in a playoff game, you should get double the punishment.  

its forever tainted no matter what else happens or who else is disciplined basically the houston astros have the leg lamp of championship trophies and when stros fans try to tell you its a major award

4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Now let me ask you a question:

Say you were pitching against a team that there had been rumors for years about them possibly trying to steal catcher's signs.  Would you try to encrypt your signs?  Or would you just keep plodding away with the single finger signal and hope they weren't breaking the rules?

I’d try to be more careful. 

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Astros were smart enough to figure out more complex signs though. 

Just mystifies me that they were pretentious enough to bang a trash can to get the info to the hitter. 

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Sheik, this Farquhar guy was out of the show after ‘18.  That was his shot. 

What if he would’ve gotten some more outs that he should’ve had hitters not known what he was going to throw and maybe he is still in the league?

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4 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

I’d try to be more careful. 

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Astros were smart enough to figure out more complex signs though. 

Just mystifies me that they were pretentious enough to bang a trash can to get the info to the hitter. 

If this were true, they could have just stole them from the manager giving them to the catcher.  That's the thing about signs:  they can be stolen.  

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1 minute ago, NREC34 said:

Sheik, this Farquhar guy was out of the show after ‘18.  That was his shot. 

What if he would’ve gotten some more outs that he should’ve had hitters not known what he was going to throw and maybe he is still in the league?

Nobody lost their job or lost their career because the Astros might have hit well against them.  That's a false narrative being paraded around like it's true.  If he was good, he'd be a pro pitcher.  

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20 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Nobody lost their job or lost their career because the Astros might have hit well against them.  That's a false narrative being paraded around like it's true.  If he was good, he'd be a pro pitcher.  

Maybe or maybe not. How can we know for sure?

 

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2 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Maybe or maybe not. How can we know for sure?

 

I want to start out by saying I'm not being a jerk or anything.  I like you.  So please don't read my tone as anything but talking.

That said, if you're good enough to pitch in the majors, one team knocking you around won't make or break your career.  If I get to the majors, I'll most likely face more than one team.  If I do well against 10 teams and one team knocks me around, I'm not going to be sent down because of that one game.  And if I come up, play one game against the Astros, and they knock me around, and I get sent down and never get another chance, it's because I wasn't good enough.

If I'm good enough to play pro ball, I'll get more than one chance.  And unless I'm the unluckiest person on earth who has to face the Astros every time I make the Show, then I can't blame me not making it in the pros on sign stealing.

You seem like a smart guy.  You can't really believe someone lost their career over a team stealing signs, right?  Like we somehow missed out on the next Roger Clemens because he got knocked around by the Astros and never got another chance?

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3 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I see the Giants are moving in their fences.  Not a fan.  I feel like every team's stadium is slowly looking the same.  Nothing fun about the field designs anymore.  Triples Alley is an awesome feature of that ballpark.

The Giants are moving the bullpens off the foul lines so they have to go somewhere.  The triple is usually one of the most exciting plays in baseball but a ball hit to the gap in Triples Alley is an automatic three bases so it takes much of the thrill away from the play. 

 

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:

Sheik, this Farquhar guy was out of the show after ‘18.  That was his shot. 

What if he would’ve gotten some more outs that he should’ve had hitters not known what he was going to throw and maybe he is still in the league?

He's maybe not the best example since he almost died in 18. Just saying

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59 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I want to start out by saying I'm not being a jerk or anything.  I like you.  So please don't read my tone as anything but talking.

That said, if you're good enough to pitch in the majors, one team knocking you around won't make or break your career.  If I get to the majors, I'll most likely face more than one team.  If I do well against 10 teams and one team knocks me around, I'm not going to be sent down because of that one game.  And if I come up, play one game against the Astros, and they knock me around, and I get sent down and never get another chance, it's because I wasn't good enough.

If I'm good enough to play pro ball, I'll get more than one chance.  And unless I'm the unluckiest person on earth who has to face the Astros every time I make the Show, then I can't blame me not making it in the pros on sign stealing.

You seem like a smart guy.  You can't really believe someone lost their career over a team stealing signs, right?  Like we somehow missed out on the next Roger Clemens because he got knocked around by the Astros and never got another chance?

Well an actual major league disagrees with you so there's that. 

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28 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Well an actual major league disagrees with you so there's that. 

Yes.  One major leaguer.  But there are also a lot who agree with me.  This is not an issue where everyone is saying it's a huge problem.  Yes, some are.  But there are also some saying it's not.  It's not as cut and dried as some are making it out, GB.  

Also, are we not GB's?  

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11 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Yes.  One major leaguer.  But there are also a lot who agree with me.  This is not an issue where everyone is saying it's a huge problem.  Yes, some are.  But there are also some saying it's not.  It's not as cut and dried as some are making it out, GB.  

Also, are we not GB's?  

Sheik, what if you put a grand on a game, end up losing, and then found out that the team who won the game knew what pitches were coming?

How would you feel?

big deal or no?

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2 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Sheik, what if you put a grand on a game, end up losing, and then found out that the team who won the game knew what pitches were coming?

How would you feel?

big deal or no?

As a bettor, you go in knowing anything could happen.  Just like if a player makes 3 errors in a game.  

No matter what your scenario, sign stealing is not a big deal to me.  Or to a lot of former and current players.  That doesn't mean it can't be a big deal to others.  But just because someone feels one way doesn't mean they are right.  It also doesn't mean they are wrong.  

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Yasmani Grandal to the White Sox.  He was considered one of the top 10 biggest FA's of the offseason.  With him and Ordozzi no longer looking for teams, that's only 8 top 10 FA's remaining.

1. Cole
2. Rendon
3. Strasburg
4. Wheeler
5. Donaldson
6. Bumgarner
8. Castellanos
9. Ryu

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Grandal gets a lot of his defensive value from pitch framing.  He was second best in MLB last year in stealing strikes. 

I wonder if we get robots calling balls and strikes during the term of his contract.

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15 hours ago, Eephus said:

Grandal gets a lot of his defensive value from pitch framing.  He was second best in MLB last year in stealing strikes. 

I wonder if we get robots calling balls and strikes during the term of his contract.

Can you believe we're rewarding him for cheating?  I mean, he clearly knows the pitch is a ball, but he's trying to trick the umpire.  Guy's careers have been ruined over stuff like this.  They come up to the majors, get one at bat, strike out on a clear off the plate pitch, and get sent down to the minors never to return.  I think we should hang these offenders.

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52 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

Can you believe we're rewarding him for cheating?  I mean, he clearly knows the pitch is a ball, but he's trying to trick the umpire.  Guy's careers have been ruined over stuff like this.  They come up to the majors, get one at bat, strike out on a clear off the plate pitch, and get sent down to the minors never to return.  I think we should hang these offenders.

Sheik, have you ever watched Field of Dreams?

Heard of the name Moonlight Graham?

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Just now, NREC34 said:

Sheik, have you ever watched Field of Dreams?

Heard of the name Moonlight Graham?

I have.  What's your point?  Are you saying because the Astros stole signs, Graham never got to bat?  That might be the hottest take I've ever heard.

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2 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I have.  What's your point?  Are you saying because the Astros stole signs, Graham never got to bat?  That might be the hottest take I've ever heard.

I am saying that a guy could come up to the majors and get one at bat and never be heard from again. 

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Sheik, I am genuinely worried about the Astros. If Manfred wants to make an example out of them and suspend Luhnow and/or Hinch they are toast. If it’s a fine and some draft picks or something they will be okay in my opinion. 

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40 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

I am saying that a guy could come up to the majors and get one at bat and never be heard from again. 

Graham didn't get an at bat, so that doesn't really make sense.  If anything, it proves me point more.  

If you are good enough, you won't be judged on one at bat.  These guys are playing in the minors for a reason.  If they are good enough, a team will bring them up.  If they bring them up, they suck and send them back down, their career isn't over.  They can tear it up in the minors and get called up again.  If a guy doesn't make it in the majors, it's not because of any single event.  It's because they aren't good enough.

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40 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

The Royals beat the Astros in that epic comeback in 2015.

IN YOUR FACE CHEATERS!!!!!!

That one still hurts.  Not as bad as Joe Carter's home run.  But this one stings.  The 2017 World Series helped heal the wound a little.  Thank God no one can ever take that away from us. :mellow:

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41 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Sheik, I am genuinely worried about the Astros. If Manfred wants to make an example out of them and suspend Luhnow and/or Hinch they are toast. If it’s a fine and some draft picks or something they will be okay in my opinion. 

I don't think anything drastic will come.  Maybe big suspensions but no law was broken.  So I don't think anyone is being forced out of a job.  I think (if they find evidence, which it seems they might) we'll see huge fines and long suspensions. 

I think Manfred wants to make an example out of them, but it won't be anything like the Cardinals hacking punishment.  Dude went to jail for that.  

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4 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

That one still hurts.  Not as bad as Joe Carter's home run.  But this one stings.  The 2017 World Series helped heal the wound a little.  Thank God no one can ever take that away from us. :mellow:

Yeah, sorry.

That's about the only smack talk I have for the next 30 years or so. 

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12 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I don't think anything drastic will come.  Maybe big suspensions but no law was broken.  So I don't think anyone is being forced out of a job.  I think (if they find evidence, which it seems they might) we'll see huge fines and long suspensions. 

I think Manfred wants to make an example out of them, but it won't be anything like the Cardinals hacking punishment.  Dude went to jail for that.  

If it’s real harsh I predict all hell will break loose and the Astros will spill whatever they know about others. 

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8 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I was mostly kidding

But you’re kinda reminding me in here of Eagles fans

Youre ALMOST happy that they won one, but they’re so annoying that you really wish they hadn’t 

Ouch, GB.  I'm an Eagles fan, too.  :lol:

I don't know if my tone comes across on here the wrong way a lot, but I can assure you most times I'm going for the joke or to try and make people smile.  

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the astros win is forever tarnished i mean its nice i guess for houston fans that they won but its sort of trash and always will be and thats just how it is same thing any brewers fan has to admit about brauns mvp take that to the cheaters gonna cheat take that to the bank brohans 

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17 minutes ago, SWC said:

the astros win is forever tarnished i mean its nice i guess for houston fans that they won but its sort of trash and always will be and thats just how it is same thing any brewers fan has to admit about brauns mvp take that to the cheaters gonna cheat take that to the bank brohans 

The Brewers have also been mentioned as another team heavily into stealing signs. 

Since you can’t win anything it doesn’t matter though. 

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5 minutes ago, Gianni Verscotchie said:

They are.  They lost the WS.  I don't think we should keep rubbing it in.  It was 2 years ago. 

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:
1 hour ago, SWC said:

the astros win is forever tarnished i mean its nice i guess for houston fans that they won but its sort of trash and always will be and thats just how it is same thing any brewers fan has to admit about brauns mvp take that to the cheaters gonna cheat take that to the bank brohans 

The Brewers have also been mentioned as another team heavily into stealing signs. 

Since you can’t win anything it doesn’t matter though. 

tough but fair and i have heard that but i still like going and sitting in the cheap seats sucking a beer and having a dog and yelling that muchado sucks so ive got that going for me which is nice take that to the bank brohans 

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I'm at work and don't listen to videos with sound here.  Or really anytime, I guess.  But I notice that in the comments (and yes, it looks to be mainly Astros fans) people are saying the whistling is happening before the pitcher nods or in some cases before the catcher throws down a sign.  Can anyone confirm this?

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5 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I'm at work and don't listen to videos with sound here.  Or really anytime, I guess.  But I notice that in the comments (and yes, it looks to be mainly Astros fans) people are saying the whistling is happening before the pitcher nods or in some cases before the catcher throws down a sign.  Can anyone confirm this?

Nope

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https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/22/astros-sign-stealing-2017-playoffs?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com
 

”Fiers alleged that Houston stole catchers’ signs from a camera positioned in centerfield at Minute Maid Park. The signs were read on a television monitor just steps behind the Astros’ dugout. A signal for an off-speed pitch would prompt someone to bang a dugout trash can loudly enough for the hitter to hear. The absence of such a noise would alert the hitter to a fastball. The use of devices to steal signs is illegal in baseball.”

“A source familiar with the sign-stealing investigation said by midweek that Manfred’s investigators had interviewed “15 to 20” Astros personnel, including the 2017 coaching staff and manager A.J. Hinch—some more than once. The source said the investigation confirmed the scheme as described by Fiers was used during a period of about three months during the 2017 regular season. The source added that the investigation is also pursuing whether the Astros used modified systems to acquire signs in the 2017 postseason, when scrutiny is heightened and the banging of a trash can would be more manifest. The Astros were 8–1 at home in the 2017 postseason.“

“MLB is also investigating a directive by the Houston front office to its scouts that encouraged the use of cameras to surveil dugouts of potential playoff opponents as part of the team’s preparation for the 2017 postseason.“

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Gianni Verscotchie said:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/22/astros-sign-stealing-2017-playoffs?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com
 

”Fiers alleged that Houston stole catchers’ signs from a camera positioned in centerfield at Minute Maid Park. The signs were read on a television monitor just steps behind the Astros’ dugout. A signal for an off-speed pitch would prompt someone to bang a dugout trash can loudly enough for the hitter to hear. The absence of such a noise would alert the hitter to a fastball. The use of devices to steal signs is illegal in baseball.”

“A source familiar with the sign-stealing investigation said by midweek that Manfred’s investigators had interviewed “15 to 20” Astros personnel, including the 2017 coaching staff and manager A.J. Hinch—some more than once. The source said the investigation confirmed the scheme as described by Fiers was used during a period of about three months during the 2017 regular season. The source added that the investigation is also pursuing whether the Astros used modified systems to acquire signs in the 2017 postseason, when scrutiny is heightened and the banging of a trash can would be more manifest. The Astros were 8–1 at home in the 2017 postseason.“

“MLB is also investigating a directive by the Houston front office to its scouts that encouraged the use of cameras to surveil dugouts of potential playoff opponents as part of the team’s preparation for the 2017 postseason.“

 

 

MLB only confirmed the scheme, but that doesn’t mean it’s confirmed and MLB just hates Houston. 

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I just heard a rumor that a couple of teams were stealing bases during the 2019 season.  They had an elaborate system of where the third base coach would send signs to the runners on the basepaths in an attempt to alert them whether to attempt to steal a base.  If found guilty, I hope Manfred kills their families and burns down their hometowns.  

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I give props to the Nats.  Apparently they were using 5 different kinds of coded signs all through the playoffs.  I also saw where one AL pitcher would give signs to the catcher.  This was me growing up because I refused to wear glasses when I pitched.  My catcher got tired of throwing down a sign, and then getting crossed up because I thought I saw a 1 instead of a 2.  So I would touch my hat or my shoulders like I was pulling my shirt.  And then the catcher would touch his glove to the ground on the pitch he wanted.  

Again, why in this day and age you'd rely on the antiquated system of throwing down a single number and hoping no one could see was beyond me.

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