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Jarrett Stidham - The Rodney Dangerfield of QBs


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9 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

"How does Jarrett see this?" Malzahn muses. "This is what he's been wanting. He's been looking forward to the moment. It's really not any deeper than that. If you'd given Jarrett a choice in the matter, I bet he would have picked New England and hoped to follow Tom Brady."

What moment?  Carrying a clipboard for Newton?  He's already on the waiver wire in most leagues, and for good reason.  I'm not saying he doesn't have a future, but it won't be in 2020.

People can choose to believe them or not, but there are still multiple folks close to the team or who cover the team that insist that there is a legit QB battle to see who earns the right to start. There are even some who are standing firm that Stidham will start Week 1 and Cam will have to beat him out as net he season progresses. At least that’s where we are now. Call me in a month for an update. 

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BB was interviewed the other day and had a long answer that there will be a camp battle, nothing is decided, and that they will figure it out based on how people play. He did mention that the plan moving forward is for the QBs to split first team reps when they can finally get to live practices.

Now, the well-duh-Cam-is-the-starter camp of course is saying that is no more than coach speak and Cam is the man. The pro-Stidham camp is saying that if Cam really was going to be the starter, they would cherish every snap he could get working with the offense and give him every rep with the first team. So they use that as EXHIBIT A as Stidham still being in the mix.

Like I said, we will know way more than we do now in a few weeks.

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47 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Do you really believe he thinks it's a competition?  Of course he will say that however.   I suppose anything is possible, but if Stidham starts they might as well cut Newton.

If Cam doesn’t start it’s because there’s something physically wrong with Cam. In which case I agree, they should release him. 

i don’t believe this is a competition, but I believe Stidham believes it’s a competition, which ya gotta love. Scrappy dude, good attitude. Maybe he’ll go all Tonya Harding & Gillooli Newton. :shrug: 

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15 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

If Cam doesn’t start it’s because there’s something physically wrong with Cam. In which case I agree, they should release him. 

i don’t believe this is a competition, but I believe Stidham believes it’s a competition, which ya gotta love. Scrappy dude, good attitude. Maybe he’ll go all Tonya Harding & Gillooli Newton. :shrug: 

Kerrigan wasn't likable either.

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26 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Do you really believe he thinks it's a competition?  Of course he will say that however.   I suppose anything is possible, but if Stidham starts they might as well cut Newton.

This situation has been discussed ad nauseum on local sports talk with all sorts of possible outcomes and permutations. One scenario was that BB would start JS in Week 1 just based on some of Cam's posts and comments that he was replacing TB12 and following in his footsteps. BB did not take kindly to that and had a press conference once again announcing that no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field. He even got testy with some of the media saying that no matter what they had heard, no decision had been made yet. Again, people can choose to decide on their own  that Cam is the starter and/or to believe or not to believe BB.

Other hot takes were that Cam might be rusty or not 100% healthy and JS would start early on. Some folks in town are still sticking to JS is the starter and Cam is the one that will have to unseat Stidham. But with no padded practices currently, there really isn't a whole lot to go on yet. A healthy Cam that has a grasp of whatever playbook they will be running should be the starter. But who knows if that is the case.

For all the inflated talk that NE signed a former MVP that had a 15-1 season and took a team to the SB, no one ever brings up that Carolina essentially would rather have Teddy Bridgewater as their starter than Newton. Is Bridgewater really that more experienced and talented than Stidham? His track record is a lot closer to Stidham than to Newton. So to me it would not be all that crazy if NE tried Stidham at QB. But all along I have felt that Cam circa 2020 is not Cam circa 2015. We'll find out soon though . . .

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2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

This situation has been discussed ad nauseum on local sports talk with all sorts of possible outcomes and permutations. One scenario was that BB would start JS in Week 1 just based on some of Cam's posts and comments that he was replacing TB12 and following in his footsteps. BB did not take kindly to that and had a press conference once again announcing that no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field. He even got testy with some of the media saying that no matter what they had heard, no decision had been made yet. Again, people can choose to decide on their own  that Cam is the starter and/or to believe or not to believe BB.

Other hot takes were that Cam might be rusty or not 100% healthy and JS would start early on. Some folks in town are still sticking to JS is the starter and Cam is the one that will have to unseat Stidham. But with no padded practices currently, there really isn't a whole lot to go on yet. A healthy Cam that has a grasp of whatever playbook they will be running should be the starter. But who knows if that is the case.

For all the inflated talk that NE signed a former MVP that had a 15-1 season and took a team to the SB, no one ever brings up that Carolina essentially would rather have Teddy Bridgewater as their starter than Newton. Is Bridgewater really that more experienced and talented than Stidham? His track record is a lot closer to Stidham than to Newton. So to me it would not be all that crazy if NE tried Stidham at QB. But all along I have felt that Cam circa 2020 is not Cam circa 2015. We'll find out soon though . . .

No Cam starter means no Cam on the roster.  He would bellyache and cry like a baby if he isn't the starter. 

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6 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

This situation has been discussed ad nauseum on local sports talk with all sorts of possible outcomes and permutations. One scenario was that BB would start JS in Week 1 just based on some of Cam's posts and comments that he was replacing TB12 and following in his footsteps. BB did not take kindly to that and had a press conference once again announcing that no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field. He even got testy with some of the media saying that no matter what they had heard, no decision had been made yet. Again, people can choose to decide on their own  that Cam is the starter and/or to believe or not to believe BB.

Other hot takes were that Cam might be rusty or not 100% healthy and JS would start early on. Some folks in town are still sticking to JS is the starter and Cam is the one that will have to unseat Stidham. But with no padded practices currently, there really isn't a whole lot to go on yet. A healthy Cam that has a grasp of whatever playbook they will be running should be the starter. But who knows if that is the case.

For all the inflated talk that NE signed a former MVP that had a 15-1 season and took a team to the SB, no one ever brings up that Carolina essentially would rather have Teddy Bridgewater as their starter than Newton. Is Bridgewater really that more experienced and talented than Stidham? His track record is a lot closer to Stidham than to Newton. So to me it would not be all that crazy if NE tried Stidham at QB. But all along I have felt that Cam circa 2020 is not Cam circa 2015. We'll find out soon though . . .

Every time I hear narratives about Bill Belichick and how X player said something that rubbed him the wrong way, so Y scenario is likely, I just remind myself that BB is a soulless robot who will do exactly what’s needed to win football games, every single time a decision is necessary.

So all those anecdotes acknowledged, if BB believes Cam Newton can win football games, Cam Newton can go on WEEI or The Sports Hub & say BB’s wife & kids are ugly & Tom Brady sucks, and BB will 

1. say “no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field.” 

and

2. start whomever he believes will help the New England Patriots win football games.

Everything else is white noise & media narratives trying to make a story. 

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49 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Every time I hear narratives about Bill Belichick and how X player said something that rubbed him the wrong way, so Y scenario is likely, I just remind myself that BB is a soulless robot who will do exactly what’s needed to win football games, every single time a decision is necessary.

So all those anecdotes acknowledged, if BB believes Cam Newton can win football games, Cam Newton can go on WEEI or The Sports Hub & say BB’s wife & kids are ugly & Tom Brady sucks, and BB will 

1. say “no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field.” 

and

2. start whomever he believes will help the New England Patriots win football games.

Everything else is white noise & media narratives trying to make a story. 

The bolded is and always will be the case.

Is there a greater than zero chance that Stidham starts over Newton? Yup, but I only see it happening in 2 scenarios, one where Newton just can't get comfortable with the playbook (i doubt this since i think they will scheme a lot for him, but many accomplished vets have come here and been unable to grasp the playbook). Two Stidham just plays so well and Newton doesn't that they go with him (Stidham), probably even unlikelier than # one.

Newton is overwhelming favorite to start imho. 

 

Edited by NE_REVIVAL
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45 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Every time I hear narratives about Bill Belichick and how X player said something that rubbed him the wrong way, so Y scenario is likely, I just remind myself that BB is a soulless robot who will do exactly what’s needed to win football games, every single time a decision is necessary.

So all those anecdotes acknowledged, if BB believes Cam Newton can win football games, Cam Newton can go on WEEI or The Sports Hub & say BB’s wife & kids are ugly & Tom Brady sucks, and BB will 

1. say “no decision had been made and things would be decided on the practice field.” 

and

2. start whomever he believes will help the New England Patriots win football games.

Everything else is white noise & media narratives trying to make a story. 

And the reverse is also true. If he thinks Jarret Stidham, Brian Hoyer, or an UDFA is the best option for Week 1, then he will play whomever that is. Similarly, if another option is better for Week 2, then he will play that guy instead. Ask Malcolm Butler or Jonas Gray how things can change in a week.

None of that is really going to change that someone or multiple people other than Tom Brady will be taking first team reps with what should be an offense with limited talent, some pieces that opted out, in a preseason without practice. There is no denying that a healthy Cam that has a sense of whatever offense would be in line to be the starter. Except no one knows how healthy Cam is and how well he is grasping whatever the playbook is. For NE's sake, maybe Cam is all systems go in both areas. Nobody knows, not even BB at this point. SHOULD Cam end up as the starter. Yup. But I, for one, am not going to sit here and say that that is a done deal.

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

And the reverse is also true. If he thinks Jarret Stidham, Brian Hoyer, or an UDFA is the best option for Week 1, then he will play whomever that is. Similarly, if another option is better for Week 2, then he will play that guy instead. Ask Malcolm Butler or Jonas Gray how things can change in a week.

and if that’s the case, you’ll see Cam get cut.  I can foresee no possible scenario where Cam is kept as a backup. 

3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

None of that is really going to change that someone or multiple people other than Tom Brady will be taking first team reps with what should be an offense with limited talent, some pieces that opted out, in a preseason without practice. There is no denying that a healthy Cam that has a sense of whatever offense would be in line to be the starter. Except no one knows how healthy Cam is and how well he is grasping whatever the playbook is. For NE's sake, maybe Cam is all systems go in both areas. Nobody knows, not even BB at this point. SHOULD Cam end up as the starter. Yup. But I, for one, am not going to sit here and say that that is a done deal.

I think most are saying Cam is the expected starter, and if that changes we’ll likely know by his release. 

that seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. 

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

and if that’s the case, you’ll see Cam get cut.  I can foresee no possible scenario where Cam is kept as a backup. 

I think most are saying Cam is the expected starter, and if that changes we’ll likely know by his release. 

that seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. 

Why would the Patriots cut Cam if they don't start him? He is on an incentive based contract and would seemingly miss most incentives not being the starter.  Cheap veteran backup.

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3 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

Why would the Patriots cut Cam if they don't start him? He is on an incentive based contract and would seemingly miss most incentives not being the starter.  Cheap veteran backup.

I’m basing this on the widely held perception that he would not be a good soldier were he beat out by Stidham. 

especially after the statements he’s made that @Anarchy99 mentioned. 

He would potentially be a difficult locker room presence, which BB has shown an intolerance for in the past. 

Not saying it’s guaranteed, and Cam may have a new level of maturity or may have been humbled by his offseason experience, but it’s a fair guess based on his history. 

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1 hour ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

The bolded is and always will be the case.

Is there a greater than zero chance that Stidham starts over Newton? Yup, but I only see it happening in 2 scenarios, one where Newton just can't get comfortable with the playbook (i doubt this since i think they will scheme a lot for him, but many accomplished vets have come here and been unable to grasp the playbook). Two Stidham just plays so well and Newton doesn't that they go with him (Stidham), probably even unlikelier than # one.

Newton is overwhelming favorite to start imho. 

 

You left out the other scenario . . . Cam is not 100% health-wise and is not the same guy anymore. The last time he's played really well was a season and a half ago, and since then he's had foot and shoulder injuries and surgeries. So we have no way of knowing if Cam can run the same, if he can throw the same, or if he can take all the hits that he used to. All of those are important things to have a high degree of confidence on, don't you think?

Many people are just automatically suggesting NE is getting the running superstar that was part QB, part RB and a nightmare to defend. There's a reason 31 other teams didn't sign him. There's a reason HIS OWN TEAM didn't want him back. Sure, I'd love BB and JM to be able to mold Cam into a superhuman beast again and into an MVP candidate in a career revival . . . but we haven't seen Cam play like that in a decent amount of time (early 2018).

I have never bought into a PLAYER X will be extra, extra motivated storyline for anyone. Players careers are short, and they need to take that approach all the time. They should not need extra motivation to PROVE EVERYONE WRONG. So IMO, Cam can either play at a high level again or he can't. Posting on social media will not make Cam a better football player. And IMO there is certainly a decent percentage chance that he won't come anywhere near the 45 TD's he accounted for in 2015. But from the media coverage I have seen, apparently that's the guy NE will be getting . . . not the one that accounted for 24 total TD in 2016. Why is 2015 more likely to repeat itself than 2016?

Edited by Anarchy99
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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m basing this on the widely held perception that he would not be a good soldier were he beat out by Stidham. 

especially after the statements he’s made that @Anarchy99 mentioned. 

He would potentially be a difficult locker room presence, which BB has shown an intolerance for in the past. 

Not saying it’s guaranteed, and Cam may have a new level of maturity or may have been humbled by his offseason experience, but it’s a fair guess based on his history. 

Lost in the discussion here is if Stidham were to beat out Cam, then JS should be viewed as legit and not some 4th round pick that threw an ugly pick six. As crazy as it sounds, IMO, the Patriots would be better off short term and long term if Stidham beat out Cam (Stidham would be dirt cheap the next two seasons). To be clear, I don't think that will happen, but there is part of me that thinks there is a chance that it could.

IMO, if Cam does win the job and is the starter this season, I am also of the mindset that NE is not winning the SB this year no matter who the QB is. Give them Lamar or Mahomes and they still wouldn't win. So Cam plays, maybe they make the playoffs, and then Cam moves on. I don't see BB franchising Newton, nor do I see them paying him what Cam would want for a contract. BB is just not a let's-pay-the-QB-the-going-market-price kind of a guy (at least so far). So a year from now, NE still would need a QB, no one would know if JS could play, and then what? I don't see a path for them to be so bad that they get a Top 5 pick to take one of the blue chip college QBs. So if 2020 NE QB = Cam Newton, 2021 NE QB = ????

Maybe BB really is the coach for the ages and CAN get the 2020 team to be competitive and make a deep playoff run. (Although I don't see how that is possible this year.) As I have outlined in other threads, I think all the guys that opted out will give NE even move cap flexibility next year, so they should be back to being relevant and in the hunt for real in 2021. Maybe I am crazy, but it might be nice to already have your QB when you go player shopping to upgrade the offense.

Given that there have been no games with Stidham or Newton at QB for New England, there is really nothing to show what to expect for the NE offense moving forward for this year (and beyond). All we really know is what they did with TB12 . . . and he's not there.

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1 minute ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

Put me in the if Cam isn't starting he will not be a happy camper camp and will ask for his release.

Put me in the camp if Cam doesn't start, BB will find a team that has a starting QB get hurt or catches COVID with complications. He would then trade Cam for what turns out to be a big piece in the future (A draft pick? A young guy that they liked that doesn't play much on that team? A disgruntled established player?) Or maybe he packages Cam and Thuney and gets a decent young player or draft pick back and frees up another $10+ million in cap room. Cam on the deal he has is worth a decent amount (depending upon when we are talking on the league calendar).

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13 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Put me in the camp if Cam doesn't start, BB will find a team that has a starting QB get hurt or catches COVID with complications. He would then trade Cam for what turns out to be a big piece in the future (A draft pick? A young guy that they liked that doesn't play much on that team? A disgruntled established player?) Or maybe he packages Cam and Thuney and gets a decent young player or draft pick back and frees up another $10+ million in cap room. Cam on the deal he has is worth a decent amount (depending upon when we are talking on the league calendar).

Meh, maybe, but if Cam can't beat out Stidham how much can he possibly be worth? I don't have much to go on other than a gut feeling BB likes\respects Cam and would not give him a terribly hard time if he wanted out. 

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5 hours ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

Meh, maybe, but if Cam can't beat out Stidham how much can he possibly be worth? I don't have much to go on other than a gut feeling BB likes\respects Cam and would not give him a terribly hard time if he wanted out. 

There is incentive for them to play Cam. He plays well and signs elsewhere they get a third round compensation pick.

If you have a battle and you can’t decide because you like both it is easy to pick a former mvp that can earn reward of third round pick.

On Thuney, I wonder if we hear he’s gonna work out at tackle in camp.  

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It is also easy to say of two guys who are fairly equal and playing well, that one is 31, oft-injured and probably deteriorating both healthwise and athletically from suffering the most solid hits taken by any QB in the last decade and the other is a 24 year old kid playing just as well who may be the future of the franchise, or at least someone you'd better find out whether he might be.

Edited by Catbird
Adding in a couple of missing words.
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48 minutes ago, Catbird said:

It is also easy to say of two guys who are fairly equal and playing well, that one is 31, oft-injured and probably deteriorating both healthwise and athletically from suffering the most solid hits taken by any QB in the last decade and the other is a 24 year old kid playing just as well who may be the future of the franchise, or at least someone you'd better find out whether he might be.

I feel like “playing just as well” as the former MVP veteran is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.  

it’s a big assumption is what I’m saying. Stidham & Newton, sifting in the film room, tasked with breaking down defenses. Who’s better, and is it close? 

The idea that Stidham is going to be just as good as Cam, even if Can is diminished from what he once was, seems unrealistic. 
 

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Blackbear said, "If you have a battle and you can’t decide because you like both ..."  it would be easy to pick Cam. I wasn't saying they will be equal (although I think BB was prepared to go into the season with only Stidham and Hoyer and really likes the kid), but that if they ARE equal it will be far better for the team to look to the future than fill a gap with Cam and be back in this uncertainty next year (even with a 3rd round draft pick gained).

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34 minutes ago, Catbird said:

Blackbear said, "If you have a battle and you can’t decide because you like both ..."  it would be easy to pick Cam. I wasn't saying they will be equal (although I think BB was prepared to go into the season with only Stidham and Hoyer and really likes the kid), but that if they ARE equal it will be far better for the team to look to the future than fill a gap with Cam and be back in this uncertainty next year (even with a 3rd round draft pick gained).

Ok, that makes more sense. I see what you’re saying. 

man, so many narratives with the Pats. I’m inclined to go with the narrative that “of the Pats were that high on Stidham, why would they bring in Cam?”

Eveey time I ask that question, I come back to “because Stidham may not be that good”; and I Really wouldn’t expect BB to come out an say that. He’s kind of a close to the vest sorta dude. 

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Certainly for security. And because he cost just over 35 cents. I agree that Cam will play if he gives them the better chance to win, which he probably will. My expectation is that injuries, slipping production or just wanting to see what Stidham can do when/if they are out of the playoff race (if any of those happen) will let BB play the kid and learn what he needs to about his play under pressure. Until then, like all young QBs, the chance to work with and watch a former MVP will make him better (although perhaps not as much as the chance to  sit and watch TB did). 

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8 hours ago, Catbird said:

Blackbear said, "If you have a battle and you can’t decide because you like both ..."  it would be easy to pick Cam. I wasn't saying they will be equal (although I think BB was prepared to go into the season with only Stidham and Hoyer and really likes the kid), but that if they ARE equal it will be far better for the team to look to the future than fill a gap with Cam and be back in this uncertainty next year (even with a 3rd round draft pick gained).

I think you can introduce a QB too soon as well. Maybe a recent example is Rosen? Probably there are many. You want him to have mastered the playbook, read defenses, and make adjustments presnap. Then reading the defense as it unfolds and knowing how your routes will be run against leverage.  I bet most QBs are incapable of that with one year with only one set of preseason games under their belt. I don’t agree putting Stidham in their is a no brainer even if both appear equal in practice. Something to be said for having a guy that has proven he can lead a team, lead the huddle, call audibles, etc... 

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Quote

Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi

Jarrett Stidham was intercepted 3 times (Michael Jackson, Steph Gilmore and Kyle Dugger). The Dugger pick was either a 1) screw it and throw it up for grabs or 2) just an awful ball that hung up forever. Flip side, Stidham remains decisive. Looks like he’s sure of himself.

https://twitter.com/mikegiardi/status/1295749523130798080?s=21

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5 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

hold stidham in dynasty, but let's not be silly. cam will start and play every snap. a 2019 4th rd rookie nor a career backup is not going to unseat him

I don't think it is quite as simple as that. If Cam were still on the Panthers, then sure that makes sense. But Cam was not an incumbent in NE and is trying to pick up an offense in a matter of weeks when half of the time they were not even practicing. By all accounts, he is showing the expected growing pains of not fully grasping the offense, freezing up when he doesn't know what to do, having guys zig when he expected them to zag, and throwing check downs a lot when he is unsure what he should do. Stidham has had a year plus worked with a lot of the offense, practiced all the time last year, has a much better grasp of the playbook, and is practicing with confidence and has been decisive.

Maybe in a few weeks Cam figures things out, Stidham looks like he isn't an NFL starter, and Hoyer shows his limitations. BB doesn't care what round a guy was drafted, how much anyone is paid, or what anyone else thinks. He is going to play the guy that he thinks gives his team the best chance to win. Newtown is currently on the longest losing streak out of any QB in the NFL right now. It's not like he is coming off an MVP year and has been perfectly healthy. I don't know what the chances are that Cam is the clear starter and will play every snap this year. I promise you neither of those answers is anywhere close to 100% (is Newton the clear started and will he play every snap).

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Quote

ESPN's Mike Reiss has charted Patriots QB Jarrett Stidham as throwing six interceptions through the team's first four practices.

In other words, "yikes." Cam Newton's signing supposedly had "nothing to do" with Stidham, but the second-year fourth-rounder was going to have to put on a show to challenge his veteran teammate this summer, and it is not happening. Even with Newton apparently not popping in practice, Stidham seems to have little chance at beating him out. 

SOURCE: Mike Reiss on Twitter 

Aug 20, 2020, 6:58 PM ET

 

 

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Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi

Good response from Belichick to my question about Stidham's struggles yesterday. I'll transcribe later but the gist was that these first few days are about timing, confidence and anticipation. Don't read much into stats/interceptions etc. #Patriots @nflnetwork @AroundTheNFL

https://twitter.com/mikegiardi/status/1296795895967748096?s=21

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Stidham expected to miss several weeks with a hip injury. LINK

Too bad that can’t explain his horrible performance in practice so far

Edited: the link says it’ll be several weeks before he’s 100%, not that he will miss several weeks

Edited by Johnny B. Goode
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23 minutes ago, Johnny B. Goode said:

Too bad that can’t explain his horrible performance in practice so far

Edited: the link says it’ll be several weeks before he’s 100%, not that he will miss several weeks

Yeah, there is a lot of confusion over what is up with Stidham. I have seen and heard different things between online and on the radio. On the radio they mentioned he COULD miss a lot of time. And then Josh McDaniels said Stidham would be at the next practice but did not elaborate what that meant. Either way, whatever is going on is not helping his candidacy. 

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