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Faithless electors (1 Viewer)

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
Faithless elector: A court ruling just changed how we pick our president

A federal appeals court ruled late Tuesday that presidential electors who cast the actual ballots for president and vice president are free to vote as they wish and cannot be required to follow the results of the popular vote in their states.

The decision could give a single elector the power to decide the outcome of a presidential election — if the popular vote results in an apparent Electoral College tie.

"This issue could be a ticking time bomb in our divided politics. It's not hard to imagine how a single faithless elector, voting differently than his or her state did, could swing a close presidential election," said Mark Murray, NBC News senior political editor.

It hasn't been much of an issue in American political history because when an elector refuses to follow the results of a state's popular vote, the state simply throws the ballot away. But Tuesday's ruling says states cannot do that.

The decision, from a three-judge panel of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, is a victory for Micheal Baca, a Colorado Democratic elector in 2016. Under state law, he was required to cast his ballot for Hillary Clinton, who won the state's popular vote. Instead, he crossed out her name and wrote in John Kasich, a Republican and then the governor of Ohio.

The secretary of state removed Baca as an elector, discarded his vote and brought in another elector who voted for Clinton. In a 2-1 decision, the appeals court said the nullification of Baca's vote was unconstitutional.

When voters go to the polls in presidential races, they actually cast their votes for a slate of electors chosen by the political parties of the nominees. States are free to choose their electors however they want, Tuesday's ruling said, and can even require electors to pledge their loyalty to their political parties.

But once the electors are chosen and report in December to cast their votes as members of the Electoral College, they are fulfilling a federal function, and a state's authority has ended. "The states' power to appoint electors does not include the power to remove them or nullify their votes," the court said.

Because the Constitution contains no requirement for electors to follow the wishes of a political party, "the electors, once appointed, are free to vote as they choose," assuming that they cast their vote for a legally qualified candidate.

A total of 30 states have laws that bind electors, requiring them to cast their votes for whichever candidate won that state's popular vote. But the laws are weak, providing only nominal penalties for what are known as "faithless electors" who fail to conform to the popular vote.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1952 that states do not violate the Constitution when they require electors to pledge that they will abide by the popular vote. But the justices have never said whether it is constitutional to enforce those pledges.

Legal scholars said Tuesday's ruling was the first from a federal appeals court on the issue of faithless electors. It applies immediately to the six states of the 10th Circuit: Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico.

“This court decision takes power from Colorado voters and sets a dangerous precedent," said Jena Griswold, Colorado's secretary of state. "Our nation stands on the principle of one person, one vote. We are reviewing this decision with our attorneys, and will vigorously protect Colorado voters.”

The federal court ruling conflicts with a decision from Washington state's Supreme Court in May, which said electors must follow the results of the popular vote. "The power of electors to vote comes from the state, and the elector has no personal right to that role,” the court said.

Lawyers from the nonprofit Equal Citizens, which represented the Washington state electors and Baca in Colorado, said they will appeal the Washington ruling to the Supreme Court.

“We know Electoral College contests are going to be closer in the future than they have been in the past. And as they get closer and closer, even a small number of electors could change the results of an election," said Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard law professor who founded Equal Citizens and is part of its legal team. "Whether you think that’s a good system or not, we believe it is critical to resolve it before it would decide an election.”

If the Supreme Court chooses to take up the dispute, it would have time to rule on the issue before the Electoral College meets in December 2020 to cast the formal vote for president.

 
I think what is ironic is that people really believe that the US was set up to be 1-person, 1-vote.

The Electoral College was designed, at the outset, to keep the public from electing someone who was an inappropriate candidate.  Over the years - we have just assumed that the Electoral College voters should rubber-stamp the popular vote - but as long as they exist, they should be able to vote for whomever they deem appropriate (assuming the candidate is legally qualified).

Now, if you really wanted to go with 1-person, 1-vote, then do away with the electoral college altogether...

 
I think what is ironic is that people really believe that the US was set up to be 1-person, 1-vote.

The Electoral College was designed, at the outset, to keep the public from electing someone who was an inappropriate candidate.  Over the years - we have just assumed that the Electoral College voters should rubber-stamp the popular vote - but as long as they exist, they should be able to vote for whomever they deem appropriate (assuming the candidate is legally qualified).

Now, if you really wanted to go with 1-person, 1-vote, then do away with the electoral college altogether...
This 

 
The decision, from a three-judge panel of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, is a victory for Micheal Baca, a Colorado Democratic elector in 2016. Under state law, he was required to cast his ballot for Hillary Clinton, who won the state's popular vote. Instead, he crossed out her name and wrote in John Kasich, a Republican and then the governor of Ohio.

The secretary of state removed Baca as an elector, discarded his vote and brought in another elector who voted for Clinton. In a 2-1 decision, the appeals court said the nullification of Baca's vote was unconstitutional.
I know it's popular to beat up on the EC these days but I'd consider myself a fan. The reason for these workarounds trying to mirror the popular vote is that the number of Reps in the House hasn't changed since around 1920 or so. Hence the EC gets more and more out of whack with the districts and states mathematically and the Congress itself acts more and more like a herd and less responsive to the people.

I am sure the founding fathers wanted the EC to function in exactly this way as a sort of "College" of ecclesiastics that would gather together and determine what was morally or institutionally best.

Btw the slate of electors in Louisiana in 2016 was a pretty sordid group, the choosing of them is a whole other issue unto itself. I have no idea how someone of Mr. Baca's ilk slipped in.

 
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So how do Colorado Dems (or any other state's party) choose their electors? Where did the breakdown in communication between this Baca guy and the state party apparatchniks occur? As a member of the party, and apparently one of some distinction in order to have been named an elector, shouldn't he have had this conversation before accepting the job? 

 
Do you think that's not going to be apparent if you read/watch from the Equal Opportunity website?
Considering I've read the OP and clicked the link, one would think I would have found out. I'm a bit confused by your tone. Regardless, I still can't figure out where Lessig's political philosophy meets up with this issue as an issue to press. In other words, I'm wondering what his true motive is. He was once a right/libertarian fusionist, these days, he seems to want to devolve the power of the state in terms of information regarding copyright, especially. I wonder what this particular issue does to advance one of his main goals. I'm curious, is all.

 
So how do Colorado Dems (or any other state's party) choose their electors? Where did the breakdown in communication between this Baca guy and the state party apparatchniks occur? As a member of the party, and apparently one of some distinction in order to have been named an elector, shouldn't he have had this conversation before accepting the job? 
States can require that electors take a loyalty pledge - but they cannot really enforce it - in light of this ruling.

 
Aren't some states now requiring their electors to vote for the General Election Popular Vote winner?

Sounds like this ruling would nix that also,

 
States can require that electors take a loyalty pledge - but they cannot really enforce it - in light of this ruling.
I need the whole story from the beginning. When I go into the booth and vote for the old Hilldog, I'm actually voting for one nameless elector, right? And that elector was appointed by my state's Democratic Party? What was the pool of candidates that they drew from? Did anybody in the party know these people before appointing them?

I'm trying to figure out what happened with this Baca guy. Did he change his mind between accepting the appointment(?) of elector or was he intending to screw his own party/candidate all along. WHO KNEW THAT THIS GUY WAS SHAKY AND DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM BEING APPOINTED?

 
Considering I've read the OP and clicked the link, one would think I would have found out. I'm a bit confused by your tone. Regardless, I still can't figure out where Lessig's political philosophy meets up with this issue as an issue to press. In other words, I'm wondering what his true motive is. He was once a right/libertarian fusionist, these days, he seems to want to devolve the power of the state in terms of information regarding copyright, especially. I wonder what this particular issue does to advance one of his main goals. I'm curious, is all.
So, yes?

 
No, and whatever this is seems like a complete waste of ####### time and energy. You've wasted several minutes of my life I won't get back.

Good work.
If that's what giving you the benefit of the doubt and asking a question is, so be it.  

 
If that's what giving you the benefit of the doubt and asking a question is, so be it.  
Something isn't clicking. Let's move on to the next problem. I have no idea what you're saying or trying to communicate. That may be on me. I don't know.

 
Ok, in Maryland the county central committees nominate electors to the state chair, who picks the final 10 candidates out of that group. An executive committee has to approve the chair's selections. So how does a faithless elector run that gauntlet? He'd have to be a pretty deep mole planted by the conniving, unprincipled Other Party.

 
I need the whole story from the beginning. When I go into the booth and vote for the old Hilldog, I'm actually voting for one nameless elector, right? And that elector was appointed by my state's Democratic Party? What was the pool of candidates that they drew from? Did anybody in the party know these people before appointing them?

I'm trying to figure out what happened with this Baca guy. Did he change his mind between accepting the appointment(?) of elector or was he intending to screw his own party/candidate all along. WHO KNEW THAT THIS GUY WAS SHAKY AND DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM BEING APPOINTED?
 Michael Baca was a Democrat and a Sanders supporter.  His strategy was to build a coalition of faithless electors who would take enough electoral votes from Trump to force congress to choose the president.  He furthered the strategy by voting Kasich instead of Clinton.

 

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