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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread***


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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Muenchin was asked why they don't simply release the transcript if Trump has nothing to hide.  His excuse was that it would start a bad precedent and foreign leaders will refuse to talk to us going forward.  😂  Absolutely hilarious.   If Trump had something in his possession that would prove his innocence, it would have been released last week and Sean Hannity would have released an audio book of him reading it. 

Mnuchin needed to be asked why the other side couldn't simply be redacted.

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The quid pro quo discussion is a red herring. Sondland’s statement and testimony is proof that the President was running a shadow diplomacy operation using his private attorney outside of normal execu

I must say, as a cynic toward government I have been nothing but impressed and even proud of the career civil servants that are on display throughout this process.  It’s quite nice to see the working

9 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

They need to release the *all* of the transcripts related to the "credible and urgent" whistleblower complaint.

I see the current narrative is he wants to release the transcript but is afraid of setting a bad precedent that would scare other world leaders thinking their conversations wouldn't be private. As if there's no such thing as "redaction".

Conversations where the president is blackmailing another country to get political dirt won't be setting any bad precedent by being released.

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

Not really. The way the system works, Trump would be impeached by the congress and then the Republican Senate would vote to dismiss it. Giving Trump another "win" and pumping up the voters on his side. The irony of the forefather's system is that the crime and corruption could actually benefit him in his reelection bid.  The system fails because of the GOP supporting the crimes. 

We can agree to disagree here, but I don't think the constitution instructs to impeach "if you're absolutely sure it will get the votes in the Senate".

You do it because it's your sworn duty. You do it to uphold the Constitution.

You do it because it's simply the right thing to do.

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Based on Trumps comments this morning admitting to threatening to withhold 250 million due to “corruption” is it possible he actually wants to get impeached at this point?  He’s acting like an addict who wants to get caught, almost like a cry for help.  
 

He really did have an idealistic lifestyle prior to being elected (which I truly believe he never thought would happen and didn’t really want) and now the weight and pressure of the office have to be getting to him.  His ego won’t allow him to not run again in 2020 and he loves playing the victim role. So he’s self sabotaging to give himself an out (protecting his ego for the election loss).  

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A reminder to everyone trying to equate what Trump is accused of and what Biden said - the guy Biden pressured Ukraine to fire was ineffective in prosecuting corruption cases. That’s why the US, Europe and Biden wanted him removed. If the company his son worked for was being investigated by this ineffective prosecutor, wouldn’t he want him to keep his job? How does bringing someone else in that’s going to be more aggressive on corruption help Biden?

Trump is doing the opposite. He’s calling up the President and trying to convince him to be corrupt in exchange for the funds. But it looks like this one is going to pass the idiot test - can you suspend facts and get someone to believe that these are the same thing. Yeah, coming soon to a Russian troll farm near you!

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6 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Based on Trumps comments this morning admitting to threatening to withhold 250 million due to “corruption” is it possible he actually wants to get impeached at this point?  He’s acting like an addict who wants to get caught, almost like a cry for help.

No way. He knows how to manipulate his supporters.

"I had to do this to protect the world from the civilian son of my socialist opponent" is just the sort of narrative that would cause his supporters to rally around him.

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From a political angle, proceeding with impeachment was a losing idea for Democrats after the Mueller Report was released because a majority of citizens didn’t support it.

Now? Who know?  I’ll argue that if the majority is in favor after we learn more about this Ukraine scandal, it’s a winning decision to impeach.  Even if he isn’t removed from office, those supporting impeachment will blame Republicans and be even more determined to vote Trump and others out of office.

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5 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

No way. He knows how to manipulate his supporters.

"I had to do this to protect the world from the civilian son of my socialist opponent" is just the sort of narrative that would cause his supporters to rally around him.

I really believe this view gives him way to much credit. He’s massive narcissist and liar who has gotten away with it for most of his adult life, there is no forethought here.  He’s a read and react guy.  

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So aside from all related political shenanigans, it is peculiar that this guy was offered a board seat for a Ukrainian energy company. I really don't care about this story, but a board seat in cases like this is basically like a no-show job on the Sopranos. You get a check for doing nothing, assuming no corruption just nepotism. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this on both sides of the aisle, garden variety or worse. It's bad enough when we have to see someone's unqualified kid run for office to keep a seat in the family or follow them into a life of "public service". Then you have all this other peripheral stuff that nobody even knows about. 

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21 minutes ago, Skoo said:

We can agree to disagree here, but I don't think the constitution instructs to impeach "if you're absolutely sure it will get the votes in the Senate".

You do it because it's your sworn duty. You do it to uphold the Constitution.

You do it because it's simply the right thing to do.

I still haven't heard a good argument on why impeaching Trump would hurt the Democrats.  Having formal public hearings laying out Trump's criminal and unethical behavior is somehow supposed to help him?

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3 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I still haven't heard a good argument on why impeaching Trump would hurt the Democrats.  Having formal public hearings laying out Trump's criminal and unethical behavior is somehow supposed to help him?

Bill Clinton's approval rating went up and up during his impeachment. No doubt Democrats remember this and fear it.

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11 hours ago, bananafish said:

I don't know who mtracey is, but the fact that you've swallowed the Trumpian propaganda that the Russia investigation was a farce and did not produce a 400-page report chock-full of scandalous behavior that would've doomed any other presidency is really pathetic, especially with your supposed distaste for dictatorships and the abuse of power. 

I'm not a big fan of the mainstream media, but everything they reported about the investigation (fake news produced by the enemy of the people according to Trump), was, without exception, proven 100% correct by the report. Trump fans love to forget about that little nugget or, more likely, Fox News "forgot" to tell them about it. 

That this guy has the gall to say the media's credibility has been obliterated and that they've shown zero accountability is Iraqi-Foreign-Minister-level shameless. I'd expect some of the other goons around here to try to propagate this garbage; it's 100% predictable as we all know they're incapable of independent thought.

I had higher regard for you but will make note of your withering standards. It's a shame, really. 

What?  It’s the truth.  The media- meaning a whole litany of major networks/newspapers and pundit supergeniuses- blew their wad on a fake conspiracy theory, which cheapened the things he’s actually done by comparison.  That’s why people don’t give a #### what they say anymore.

You need to accept that TrumpRussia was a madeup conspiracy theory with no basis in reality.  The corollary indictments and arrests that took place had absolutely zero to do with the popular collusion theory, which was a falsehood.  The only thing the report proved was that Mueller can overhype, mislead, obfuscate, distort, and bloviate about anything. 

Trump is sending American troops to Saudi Arabia to protect their oil fields, and people are blowing a gasket about this?  When it came to Trump, people were fine with him being investigated ‘just incase’ there was actually something there.  They laughed us out of the room when we pointed out that Clinton received help from Ukraine in the 2016 election herself.  

If Trump tried to use leverage to investigate a political opponent, while unsurprising, I agree it’d be troubling- certainly no more impeachable or outrageous than the Iraq War or the murder of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki- but it appears Biden actually did pull some strings to get his kid a cush job and brag about getting an official that was looking into it fired.  If so, it warrants further scrutiny and needs to be unpacked.  

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2 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Trump: "I want you to go after my political rival.  If you do, there is an extra $140B in the deal"

 

Biden: "I want you to get a prosecutor who will actually prosecute corruption cases, or we are walking away!"

 

 

Yeah -"near the exact same thing" . :rolleyes:

I'm not as confident in your "Biden Quote" above as you are, 

 

Something is mighty fishy, if not illegal, in the whole  Biden, Heinz, Rosemont Capital  deal. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:
7 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

No way. He knows how to manipulate his supporters.

"I had to do this to protect the world from the civilian son of my socialist opponent" is just the sort of narrative that would cause his supporters to rally around him.

I really believe this view gives him way to much credit. He’s massive narcissist and liar who has gotten away with it for most of his adult life, there is no forethought here.  He’s a read and react guy.  

Well, I agree that Trump's narcissism causes him to lie about everything, which causes him to double down on the lies in a reactionary sort of way.

But sociopaths are always looking to exploit and manipulate. As soon as he found out about Hunter Biden's dealings with Ukraine, he knew that he could exploit it because he could frame it in a way that his supporters would defend.

It's similar to the way he exploited the mental illness of Ted Cruz's wife, or the way he exploited Hillary's emails, or the way he exploited Andrew McCabe's lack of candor. Of course the difference in this case is that he may have committed a traitorous act, but the sociopathic pattern is the same: he finds a weak spot and then he attacks it in a manner that his supporters will defend.

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:15 PM, Don't Noonan said:

Just like the Mueller report, I choose not to jump to conclusions and wait for more info to come out.  :shrug:

 

6 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao:. It's like the Russia hoax all over again in here.  Awesome!  Lucy will once again yank the football out as you fall flat on your face!

So much for waiting, huh?

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20 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

If Trump tried to use leverage to investigate a political opponent, while unsurprising, I agree it’d be troubling- certainly no more impeachable or outrageous than the Iraq War or the murder of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki- but it appears Biden actually did pull some strings to get his kid a cush job and brag about getting an official that was looking into it fired.  If so, it warrants further scrutiny and needs to be unpacked.  

"Sure what Trump did may have been bad, but (insert deflection here) was worse."

Basically if Trump did it it's no biggie, if someone else is guilty of something then yeah we should investigate.

Funny how that works.

 

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9 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

:lmao:. It's like the Russia hoax all over again in here.  Awesome!  Lucy will once again yank the football out as you fall flat on your face!

So is your position that Trump didn't try to bribe the Ukraine, or that you just don't care if he did?

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5 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

I am waiting.  You guys, however are already calling for him to be impeached.  :lol:

Impeachment aside what more are you waiting for.  He’s admitting to talking with the new President about corruption and Joe’s son and this morning he’s admitting to withholding 250million in aid if the President didn’t do something about corruption. These are Trumps own words. ???

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1 minute ago, Skoo said:

Here I am responding to trolls like I tell everyone else not to.

My bad, carry on with your regularly scheduled deflection.

I was going to say. Why even entertain him. At this point, I could make his posts for him. They are all the same. 

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Everyone seems to want to talk about how impeaching Trump will help him win the election.

I disagree.

So what happens if you don't impeach and he still wins?

Then the Democrats somehow manage to look even dumber than they do right now.

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I have been a staunch proponent of not impeaching him for what has transpired so far.  However if this one is true, I am almost at my tipping point.  I still say the focus has to be 2020, but I'm starting to lean toward if the democrats impeach him, I won't hold it against them.

Ugly Ugly time we are in.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

I have been a staunch proponent of not impeaching him for what has transpired so far.  However if this one is true, I am almost at my tipping point.  I still say the focus has to be 2020, but I'm starting to lean toward if the democrats impeach him, I won't hold it against them.

Ugly Ugly time we are in.

This is a milestone post for this site.  Hopefully, you don't change your tune, but you're the first of the Trump supporters who have admitted that certain corruption is just not ok. 

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

This is a milestone post for this site.  Hopefully, you don't change your tune, but you're the first of the Trump supporters who have admitted that certain corruption is just not ok. 

I don’t think he’s a “Trump supporter”. He just sometimes posts like it. Kind of like Gopher State.  In my opinion, both are swing voters.

It’s certainly an interesting perspective to read.

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14 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

This is a milestone post for this site.  Hopefully, you don't change your tune, but you're the first of the Trump supporters who have admitted that certain corruption is just not ok. 

Not really accurate to call me a Trump supporter.  I am anti-Democratic more than anything.   I have been consistent in my position that bouncing him in the 2020 election is more important than taking time to impeach him.  And the democrats are not helping their case by screaming impeachment everytime something comes up.  

However, that's their game.  My opinion( and it's just one) is that this would be close to enough for me.  Not sure if it impeachment would be successful, but if you are curious about how an on the fence about impeachment person might be feeling after this latest development, well that's my 2 pennies.

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29 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I have been a staunch proponent of not impeaching him for what has transpired so far.  However if this one is true, I am almost at my tipping point.  I still say the focus has to be 2020, but I'm starting to lean toward if the democrats impeach him, I won't hold it against them.

Ugly Ugly time we are in.

I appreciate the honest response. But I'm curious -- what's your threshold for "if it's true"?

Like, what if the facts show that Trump told Ukraine "No money unless you promise to eliminate corruption" along with "By the way, I happen to think Hunter Biden is very corrupt" -- but he never explicitly asked them to investigate Biden? Would that meet your threshold for being "true"? Or would you just chalk it up to sheer coincidence?

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Just now, [scooter] said:

I appreciate the honest response. But I'm curious -- what's your threshold for "if it's true"?

Like, what if the facts show that Trump told Ukraine "No money unless you promise to eliminate corruption" along with "By the way, I happen to think Hunter Biden is very corrupt" -- but he never explicitly asked them to investigate Biden? Would that meet your threshold for being "true"? Or would you just chalk it up to sheer coincidence?

I can't answer that yet.   This is still developing.  So as more information comes out, if it comes out, I may be able to answer that better.  Right now I have nothing.  I can't go on "what if's"  That's bad policy.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Ham said:

Actually, Pelosi is driving the opposite strategy, which given the fact Trump has committed blatant impeachable offenses, is irresponsible given the party's duty to impeach.

I believe in the laws and institutions that create fair governance, with checks and balances and oversight. Any individual political era should pale in comparison to the integrity of the system. Impeachment shouldn't rely on its strategic value in an upcoming election. It should be based on evidence, and here there was amble evidence before Trump's latest crime. Now it's unconscionable not to impeach. It degrades the ability to ever hold a President, even an openly criminal and dishonest one, from accountability.

Also remember that in many circumstances lying to the American people is impeachable. Trump has close to 15k documented lies in 3 years. Democrats are hardly calling for impeachment over everything that comes up. The fact is, roughly a scandal every 6 months meets the test of what could reasonably be an impeachment article. That's not normal, nor should it be.

Ok.   Glad you got that off your chest.   There's a yoogeeee thread discussing the pros and cons of Trump being impeached.   Check it out.

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31 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Everyone seems to want to talk about how impeaching Trump will help him win the election.

I disagree.

So what happens if you don't impeach and he still wins?

Then the Democrats somehow manage to look even dumber than they do right now.

I agree with you on that.  Partly because the failure by Democrats to impeach over 2016 seems to have just emboldened him for 2020, and now he has the powers of the purse to abuse powers with. If they don't stop him now, he'll keep going (and getting even more bolder) if no one is going to check him and time for impeachment to happen runs out. I was never really 100% confident in there being free and fair elections in 2020, and my view of that happening keeps going down.

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