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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (3 Viewers)

Roberts breaks the tie.
Apparently McConnell doesn't agree:

Li Zhou

@liszhou

From McConnell spokesperson re: potential 50-50 tie on an impeachment rules resolution: "Anything that is put to a vote during an impeachment trial, ties lose." Asked whether Chief Justice Roberts would be able to break the tie — and got the same response.
Here's a fuller analysis:

"The Constitution speaks sparingly to the contours of an impeachment trial but specifies unambiguously that the chief justice must 'preside.' The Senate rules, which incorporate this command, make no distinction between the chief justice’s role as presiding officer in this context and the vice president’s in all others. There is no apparent reason the presiding officer’s responsibility would include breaking 50-50 ties in one context but not the others.

"A presiding officer presides; that means keeping order and moving proceedings along, at least somewhat analogous to the role of a district court judge. The reason the chief justice and not the vice president plays this role in an impeachment of the president alone is that the vice president would have an automatic conflict of interest. If the presiding officer had no substantive role to play, there would be no conflict. It’s precisely because the presiding officer might make substantive decisions that the chief justice must step in.

Finally, the chief justice played a substantive role in both previous impeachment trials of the president. Most notably, Chief Justice Salmon Chase twice broke ties in the Andrew Johnson trial."

 
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Trump people are "Winners" Been winning now for 3+ years non stop. Those not "Winners" are... well, you know...gotta be the opposite. "Losers". Not everyone is gonna get a trophy in this one.
Not that I don't appreciate being called a loser, but I think you're forgetting that in 2018 Democrats had the BIGGEST HOUSE MIDTERM WIN EVER.

 
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I’ll admit that in 1999 and maybe until 2015 or so I really thought that someone like Starr could believe what they were saying and doing was right, even if the right/wrong was endlessly debatable. Sad to reach this point of ultimate nihilism on such an important thing.

 
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But he just throws his hands up in the air and says what? I don't know how he can't get involved should there be a tie on a vote
Not saying I agree but This from an article in The Hill;

“he chief justice is supposed to preside, not make decisions for the Senate,” said a senior Senate GOP aide. 

“It would be a conundrum for the chief justice,” the aide added. “Let’s say [Roberts] says, ‘I’m going to break the tie,’ and John Bolton has to testify. Wouldn’t he have to recuse himself when the Supreme Court gets the question as to whether executive privilege applies?”

The aide said it “would be an unprecedented interference of the third branch into the first branch.”

 
“It would be a conundrum for the chief justice,” the aide added. “Let’s say [Roberts] says, ‘I’m going to break the tie,’ and John Bolton has to testify. Wouldn’t he have to recuse himself when the Supreme Court gets the question as to whether executive privilege applies?”
I don't think it would go to the Supreme Court. Bolton wants to testify. If the President files an action in Superior Court asking for a preliminary injunction prohibiting Bolton from testifying until the issue of executive privilege is litigated, I suspect the court would say: "No. It's a political question. We're not getting involved. And even if we were to get involved, we believe the President cannot show a likelihood of prevailing on the merits." With no preliminary injunction pending a decision on the merits (followed by appeals, etc.), the testimony would go forward and that would be that.

 
Something I want to add about Bolton: I’m hearing some journalists speculate that because he is such a longtime conservative, he could have an impact on Trump’s base of support. 

This is IMO a misconception. Bolton is a neocon, arguably THE neocon; he’s never been trusted by the Bannon nationalist base. He has nothing in common with them. They were horrified when he was hired in the first place. 
For those who actually have an ideology, sure, maybe. But for the bulk of the Trump base, when Trump hires him, he's great. When Trump fires him or he quits, he's garbage.

 
I'm trying to discern his point.  Is he saying that the only single thing that's changed between past impeachment processes and this one is the partisanship and all the acts leading to them are similar enough that we should maintain the status quo?  Is he saying not ENOUGH articles were brought?  

 
I’ll admit that in 1999 and maybe until 2015 or so I really thought that someone like Starr could believe what they were saying and doing was right, even if the right/wrong was endlessly debatable. Sad to reach this point of ultimate nihilism on such an important thing.
Welcome aboard.
Ultimately, what Ken Starr is doing today is continuing – if not completing – the rehabilitation of Bill Clinton's reputation.

 
I'm trying to discern his point.  Is he saying that the only single thing that's changed between past impeachment processes and this one is the partisanship and all the acts leading to them are similar enough that we should maintain the status quo?  Is he saying not ENOUGH articles were brought?  
My takeaways of his points in shorthand:

  • Impeachment should be bipartisan.
  • Trump can't have obstructed justice by listening to his white house lawyers and by protecting the office of the presidency.
  • Impeachment subpoenas were invalid that were issued before a house vote on impeachment.
  • Due process wasn't honored because testimony/subpoenas weren't dragged out in the courts.
 
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I'm trying to discern his point.  Is he saying that the only single thing that's changed between past impeachment processes and this one is the partisanship and all the acts leading to them are similar enough that we should maintain the status quo?  Is he saying not ENOUGH articles were brought?  
He seems to be making some sort of argument that the concept of impeachment is inherently harmful and against common law. With Mueller the argument was the President could not be inducted, he could only be impeached by Congress. With Ukraine, the argument is the President can’t be impeached because parliaments really don’t have that power. It’s shadow authoritarianism.

 
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Impeachment should be bipartisan.
Well, I agree to an extent, but not for the reason he seems to be offering which seems to be "because that's how it has been done in the past".  That falls flat on its face primarily because it requires the assumption that the political climate of the day is the same as it was in the past.  Clearly it isn't.

Trump can't have obstructed justice by listening to his white house lawyers and by protecting the office of the presidency.
Not sure I understand this.  White House lawyers now supercede the Constitution and the laws of the land?

Impeachment subpoenas were invalid that were issued before a house vote on impeachment.
I'm not sure I understand this either...don't even know where to start here.  Lawyers?

 
My takeaways of his points in shorthand:

  • Impeachment should be bipartisan.
  • Trump can't have obstructed justice by listening to his white house lawyers and by protecting the office of the presidency.
  • Impeachment subpoenas were invalid that were issued before a house vote on impeachment.
  • Due process wasn't honored because testimony/subpoenas weren't dragged out in the courts.
So again, lots of procedural arguments but nothing on the substance.

 
  • Thanks
Reactions: Ned
So again, lots of procedural arguments but nothing on the substance.
I'm not a lawyer and was half listening, but those were my takeaways...folks with more knowledge or more attention to his talk can elaborate or correct.

Have it on in background as I'm working.

...BUT

There's really no engagement on the issues.  Just a lot of misdirection and procedural complaints.

 
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You almost have to admire the conviction of the GOP.  They are now going to have to pivot once again and call Bolton a liar (which Trump has already done).  Notwithstanding, of course, that Bolton is known as a total straight shooter, to a fault, and Trump can't open his mouth without lies pouring out of it.  

They should simply just retreat to the last line of defence:  He did it, we don't care.  It is what they all believe anyway.  And the faithful will have their back.

 
Well, I agree to an extent, but not for the reason he seems to be offering which seems to be "because that's how it has been done in the past".  That falls flat on its face primarily because it requires the assumption that the political climate of the day is the same as it was in the past. 
It’s not just that, it’s a lie. Johnson and Nixon were impeached (Nixon was facing draft articles) for non-crimes as well, ie violation of their oaths and disqualification from office.

 
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Michael Purpura's last name is a medical condition meaning "A rash of purple spots due to small blood vessels leaking blood into the skin, joints, intestines, or organs." 

Not really making fun of him...must've sucked at some point growing up.

 
Purpura is splitting hairs that Ukraine aid was released before an investigation was announced.  The real question is whether it was released before a whistle blower complaint was known to have been submitted.

 
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I'm going to see what odds 365 will give me for no witnesses.  McConnell is going to hold the line and shove the cover up right down America's throat.  Will report back.

Edit:  Cannot bet on it.  dang.

 
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Something I want to add about Bolton: I’m hearing some journalists speculate that because he is such a longtime conservative, he could have an impact on Trump’s base of support. 
Being a longtime conservative means nothing since it became the trump party.  He tells them who to like and not like. John McCain was a revered member of the party and won the presidential nomination in 2008. 8 years later, Trump said he wasn't a war hero because he got caught and when he died, no one in the party cared. Many were happy. Bolton falls into the same slot that Cohen did now that his statement was leaked. 

 
If what Trump did was perfect and Biden did the same thing then why does the GOP want Biden investigated?
You're looking for consistency in their defense? These are the same people who are arguing Trump was so concerned about corruption that he wanted the corrupt country to investigate Biden.

 
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