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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

jon_mx said:
Sorry, thought I was talking to Tim still.  I have had 20 replies in the last 20 minutes. 
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Ok, no problem.

But to be clear, there's a huge gulf in the sitting POTUS asking for help in an election from a foreign government (by trying to implicate a rival in criminal activity), and a person running for POTUS holding no elected position hiring a foreign or domestic company to conduct opposition research in an election.

You can see that, right?

 
jon_mx said:
 If you are only asking about finding out if something was true, I don't see the issue
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I don't either...but it's crystal clear this isn't what was going on in that call, and you know that.  For starters, we already know the answer to that question based on the previous investigation that was done.

 
timschochet said:
Update in polling: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-first-few-post-ukraine-polls-say-about-impeachment/amp/

Still early, but public opinion is definitely moving in favor of impeachment. And unlike jon here, a  growing majority of Americans agree that what Trump did in that phone call is very wrong. 
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When the House launched its formal impeachment hearings against Nixon in February 1974, only 38% of Americans supported it.

Today, polling shows that 49% of Americans support launching formal impeachment hearings against Trump.
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Kevin Kruse.

 
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The WaPo poll posted by Tim says 48% support hearings. The Quinnipiac poll posted by Noonan - from Wednesday - said 37% support impeachment and removal. That shows some flux of people wanting more information and who are persuadable, and it currently is near 50%.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
See, that's the difference between us.  You are literate and informed and I have old 60's T.V. shows rattling around in an unorganized noggin.
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Old 60s TV can leave you very well informed. For instance, Donald Trump is easier to understand if you think of him as a cross between Eva Gabor’s character in Green Acres and Sergeant Schulz.  

 
timschochet said:
Old 60s TV can leave you very well informed. For instance, Donald Trump is easier to understand if you think of him as a cross between Eva Gabor’s character in Green Acres and Sergeant Schulz.  
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Well New York is where he'd rather stay, he gets allergic, smelling hay.  He just adores a penthouse view. America he loves you but give him Park Avenue.

Between that and his ability to see nothing, nothinnngg! I may have to agree.

 
jon_mx said:
You were ok with Hillary hiring one. 
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I’m quoting Jon here but this is a question for anyone:

I assume this is about Christopher Steele.  Is the difference that Hillary technically hired Fusion GPS which is an American company?  It does bring up an interesting question though.  Could a candidate bypass getting “something of value” from a foreigner to aid in an election simply by running it through an American shell company? (I’m not claiming Fusion GPS is such a company.)

I suppose this was all discussed in the Russia thread but I don’t read that often.

 
sho nuff said:
They are arguing that because that was the talking point out.  We saw the distribution of those points.

The masterful thing Trump has done (as bad as he is) has always been marketing. Push the buzz words to the point they sink in...no matter how false and BS and meaningless it really is.
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Exactly--just like showing a clip of Trump saying something despicable or stupid is labeled as "Fake News" and suddenly is disbelieved.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Well, people who lead countries tend to be pretty powerful, and asking someone to abuse their power for your personal benefit is pretty bad.  That said, you're right that foreign leaders aren't unique.

Impeachable.  If Trump asked Zuckerberg to manipulate Facebook to improve his reelection chances, that would be a clear abuse of office.

Impeachable.  The president should not be working with foreign intelligence agencies to undermine our electoral process.  How can you not understand that?
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I did not associate finding out if something is true or not as undermining our election process.  The truth is not the enemy of democracy, it should be the basis of Democracy.  Now  asking for something like sabotaging or hacking would be different.  You seem to want to equate the later stuff with the first, which it is not.  

 
The system where the transcript was allegedly stored is for highly classified information, such as covert operations, and can only be accessed with a code word and has to be approved by a senior White House official with a written record, according to current and former administration officials. The call with Zelensky did not contain classified information, which was why the White House was able to release it this week.

To transfer a call from the normal storage system to the National Security Council's code-word-protected network, a very senior White House official - someone as high as the chief of staff or the national security adviser - must make a formal written request to do so, according to two people who worked with memos of foreign leader calls.

Four former U.S. officials - including aides in previous administrations and the Trump administration - said they were not aware of any calls that did not contain highly classified information being housed in this type of storage system. One former Trump administration official said such calls were sometimes kept on the "high side," only available to aides with high clearances and separate laptops, but not the secure system the whistleblower alleges was used. "Never heard of anything like that," said this official, who was privy to some of Trump's calls with foreign leaders.

There is no evidence that Trump ordered the move. But he has repeatedly fixated on disclosures to the news media, and his aides have spent considerable time trying to limit who hears his interactions with not only foreign leaders but also lawmakers, friends and anyone else Trump consults with.
Click to expand...
Wapo (by way of Duluth)

 
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timschochet said:
Old 60s TV can leave you very well informed. For instance, Donald Trump is easier to understand if you think of him as a cross between Eva Gabor’s character in Green Acres and Sergeant Schulz.  
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He's far closer to Klink than Schultz. Shultz intentionallly avoided knowing things. Klink and Trump believe they know everything even though everyone around them recognizes them as total fools.

 
jon_mx said:
I did not associate finding out if something is true or not as undermining our election process.  The truth is not the enemy of democracy, it should be the basis of Democracy.  Now  asking for something like sabotaging or hacking would be different.  You seem to want to equate the later stuff with the first, which it is not.  
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There’s a process for investigating. The prez doesn’t get to freewheel to investigate his tinhat beliefs. 

 
The General said:
There’s a process for investigating. The prez doesn’t get to freewheel to investigate his tinhat beliefs. 
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I am more of a results guy than a process guy.  If Trump's crackpot theory was correct and Biden did something wrong, it deserves to be exposed.   Trump has a lot of mental issues no doubt.  

 
jon_mx said:
I am more of a results guy than a process guy.  If Trump's crackpot theory was correct and Biden did something wrong, it deserves to be exposed.   Trump has a lot of mental issues no doubt.  
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Yet the "crackpot theory" that Trump was attempting to buy help with his re-election from a foreign country shouldn't be investigated? If true, doesn't it deserve to be exposed?

 
apalmer said:
Yet the "crackpot theory" that Trump was attempting to buy help with his re-election from a foreign country shouldn't be investigated? If true, doesn't it deserve to be exposed?
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Sure it should be investigated, but the impeachment train is already in running at full speed when there are key components missing.  

 
Juxtatarot said:
I’m quoting Jon here but this is a question for anyone:

I assume this is about Christopher Steele.  Is the difference that Hillary technically hired Fusion GPS which is an American company?  It does bring up an interesting question though.  Could a candidate bypass getting “something of value” from a foreigner to aid in an election simply by running it through an American shell company? (I’m not claiming Fusion GPS is such a company.)

I suppose this was all discussed in the Russia thread but I don’t read that often.
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A campaign could have hired Orvis (Steele's UK-based firm) directly provided they paid for the opposition research (in money, not promises of favors once the candidate won the Presidency,)

 
George Soros is a busy man. People are scary

He's also been financing prosecutors around the country that refuse to prosecute violent criminals because police officers are "racist." He wants to cause mayhem in every western country. I wish Trump would take him out once and for all.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I’m quoting Jon here but this is a question for anyone:

I assume this is about Christopher Steele.  Is the difference that Hillary technically hired Fusion GPS which is an American company?  It does bring up an interesting question though.  Could a candidate bypass getting “something of value” from a foreigner to aid in an election simply by running it through an American shell company? (I’m not claiming Fusion GPS is such a company.)
Click to expand...
There are at least 3 key differences:

1. Hillary was insulated by at least one layer of legal activity. Had she gone directly to Christopher Steele (a foreigner), then you could argue that she was committing a crime. But no law requires campaign vendors (such as Fusion GPS) to hire only U.S. citizens for every single task.

2. Hillary was not a person holding office in the United States, and she did not attempt to accept something of value from a foreign state.

3. There was no quid pro quo. Hillary did not say to a foreign state, "Do me a favor before I give you money to buy more weapons."

 
Juxtatarot said:
So could the Trump campaign pay a Ukrainian company to try to get dirt on Biden?
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I don't think the Trump campaign could directly hire a Ukrainian company, but they could hire a U.S. firm to get dirt on Biden, and that U.S. firm could talk to and hire almost anyone they wanted to. Which has probably already happened.

(I suppose that there's probably a law which prevents a U.S. firm from going directly to the president of Ukraine, though.)

 
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jon_mx said:
I am more of a results guy than a process guy.  If Trump's crackpot theory was correct and Biden did something wrong, it deserves to be exposed.   

Trump has a lot of mental issues no doubt.  
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Gosh if only there were some agencies or whole departments where there are best of the best minds and millions are spent to do just this.

Compare the second sentence Vs the first.

 
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Raylan said:
Speaking of Schiff, remember when he was colluding with what he thought was a Ukrainian official to get **** pics of Trump? Sounds like interference in an election.

Schiff on tape asking for **** pics of Trump
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He was encouraging a prank caller to stay on the line so that their conversation could be documented and traced. No rational and non-disingenuous human being thinks that Schiff was doing anything wrong here.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The system where the transcript was allegedly stored is for highly classified information, such as covert operations, and can only be accessed with a code word and has to be approved by a senior White House official with a written record, according to current and former administration officials. The call with Zelensky did not contain classified information, which was why the White House was able to release it this week.

To transfer a call from the normal storage system to the National Security Council's code-word-protected network, a very senior White House official - someone as high as the chief of staff or the national security adviser - must make a formal written request to do so, according to two people who worked with memos of foreign leader calls.

Four former U.S. officials - including aides in previous administrations and the Trump administration - said they were not aware of any calls that did not contain highly classified information being housed in this type of storage system. One former Trump administration official said such calls were sometimes kept on the "high side," only available to aides with high clearances and separate laptops, but not the secure system the whistleblower alleges was used. "Never heard of anything like that," said this official, who was privy to some of Trump's calls with foreign leaders.

There is no evidence that Trump ordered the move. But he has repeatedly fixated on disclosures to the news media, and his aides have spent considerable time trying to limit who hears his interactions with not only foreign leaders but also lawmakers, friends and anyone else Trump consults with.
Click to expand...
Wapo (by way of Duluth)
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To put this "location" in a bit of perspective.  The phone conversations the day of and shortly after 9/11 didn't even make it to this level of security.  There is no positive explanation for moving this Ukraine documentation to that area if that is indeed what happened.

 
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Reactions: Ned
Sammy3469 said:
So the WH “knew” about the whistleblower since the week of July 29 and instead of coming clean, decided to double down of the extortion and cover-up.  Typical for this WH. 
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Did you not listen to the hearing yesterday?  It was done legally and not a cover up.

 
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