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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (3 Viewers)

Kevin McCarthy saying that it is wrong to lie about Antifa being behind attacking the Capitol, but ignoring that these lies are coming from his membership is laughable. 

 
January 6 2021:

So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
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August 9, 2016:

nothing you can do, folks.

Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is. I don't know.
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Plenty of other instances between now and then of Trump implying violence is a potential means to get what he wants. Even individual instances are barely veiled, just bordering on not even plausibly deniable, suggestions to resort to violence. Put them al together, and there's really not much doubt that Trump encourages violence if it plays to his benefit.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I think it's worth noting for the record that it took the House a full week to vote on articles of impeachment.  They took the freaking weekend off.  Nobody gets to accuse McConnell of delaying anything at this point.
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I don't know if this is entirely accurate, but it was reported that Pelosi called for an earlier vote (Saturday) but per House rules that can only be done by unanimous approval, and McCarthy objected.  I'm not sure how that gets us from Monday to Wednesday, though.

 
psychobillies said:
I'm not making an argument, I'm asking a question. I asked the question because that is what members of congress are accusing him of and I don't see it.   At this point, I agree with your point that he did not incite a riot.  
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I haven't read the article of impeachment, but I suspect there are numerous Trump quotes in that document. That's where I'd look to see what members of Congress are accusing him of.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I think it's worth noting for the record that it took the House a full week to vote on articles of impeachment.  They took the freaking weekend off.  Nobody gets to accuse McConnell of delaying anything at this point.
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This is the fastest I’ve ever heard of. Could it have been faster? Don’t know, but I have trouble being critical about it. 

 
Cynical, Machiavellian strategy:

Start the trial in the Senate in July 2022.

Get Republican votes on the record just before the midterm elections.

 
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psychobillies said:
Can someone here point me to the words that Trump used to incite a riot?  I have looked at the transcript from the 6th and see where he suggested that his supporters keep fighting, but he also says to do it peacefully.  I also see him suggest voting out Republicans that don't support his ridiculous effort to overturn the election, but I don't see him suggesting storming the capital or being violent anywhere.  I only see him suggesting to fight peacefully.  I know I may just be missing it, so I'm hoping someone here can point me to his calls for a violent insurrection.
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Update: This is the document you'll want to read:

https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/house_judiciary_committee_report_-_materials_in_support_of_h._res._24.pdf

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I haven't read the article of impeachment, but I suspect there are numerous Trump quotes in that document. That's where I'd look to see what members of Congress are accusing him of.
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Thank you.  I just took your advice and it appears to be what I thought.  There is nothing in there that I would consider inciting a riot without assuming the words he said mean something other than what he said. It completely ignores his repeated calls for peaceful and lawful protest.  It seems like nothing more than political theatre that serves no purpose other than to let Pelosi give Trump the finger.   It's a complete waste of time.   

 
psychobillies said:
Thank you.  I just took your advice and it appears to be what I thought.  There is nothing in there that I would consider inciting a riot without assuming the words he said mean something other than what he said. It completely ignores his repeated calls for peaceful and lawful protest.  It seems like nothing more than political theatre that serves no purpose other than to let Pelosi give Trump the finger.   It's a complete waste of time.   
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Yes, it's all ambiguous. I don't think prosecutors would be able to get a criminal conviction against him. (But that's not the standard for impeachment.)

 
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Rich Conway said:
I don't know if this is entirely accurate, but it was reported that Pelosi called for an earlier vote (Saturday) but per House rules that can only be done by unanimous approval, and McCarthy objected.  I'm not sure how that gets us from Monday to Wednesday, though.
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The House voted to call on Pence to start 25th Amendment proceedings, then sent a letter to him, which (as expected), he replied to, rejecting that measure. That took up Monday and Tuesday. I guess the Democrats felt they had to "exhaust all options."

 
psychobillies said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
I haven't read the article of impeachment, but I suspect there are numerous Trump quotes in that document. That's where I'd look to see what members of Congress are accusing him of.
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Thank you.  I just took your advice and it appears to be what I thought.  There is nothing in there that I would consider inciting a riot without assuming the words he said mean something other than what he said. It completely ignores his repeated calls for peaceful and lawful protest. 
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If you use the word "peaceful" to describe rioters who are attacking police, then you open the door for others to make assumptions that your words mean something other than what you actually said.

(That was one of the criticisms against Democrats during the BLM protests, btw -- and justifiably so.)

 
Sea Duck said:
If you use the word "peaceful" to describe rioters who are attacking police, then you open the door for others to make assumptions that your words mean something other than what you actually said.

(That was one of the criticisms against Democrats during the BLM protests, btw -- and justifiably so.)
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Who did that?

 
psychobillies said:
Sea Duck said:
If you use the word "peaceful" to describe rioters who are attacking police, then you open the door for others to make assumptions that your words mean something other than what you actually said.

(That was one of the criticisms against Democrats during the BLM protests, btw -- and justifiably so.)
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Who did that?
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Trump did. He used the phrase "remain peaceful" while his supporters were attacking the police.

He didn't say "be peaceful", let alone "stop attacking the police".

He said "remain". That phrase told his supporters that he considered their riotous behavior to fall under the umbrella of "peaceful".

 
phandango said:
The House voted to call on Pence to start 25th Amendment proceedings, then sent a letter to him, which (as expected), he replied to, rejecting that measure. That took up Monday and Tuesday. I guess the Democrats felt they had to "exhaust all options."
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Unfortunate that took 2 days. There was almost zero chance Pence would do it, but that surely seems like a better path to healing than impeachment. IMO, it'll look good in the history books that they tried that before jumping straight to impeachment. Might look good in some voters' minds, too.

 
VandyMan said:
Unfortunate that took 2 days. There was almost zero chance Pence would do it, but that surely seems like a better path to healing than impeachment. IMO, it'll look good in the history books that they tried that before jumping straight to impeachment. Might look good in some voters' minds, too.
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McConnell also said immediately after Wednesday that Impeachment wouldn't be taken up by the Senate until 1/20 or 1/21.

 
psychobillies said:
Thank you.  I just took your advice and it appears to be what I thought.  There is nothing in there that I would consider inciting a riot without assuming the words he said mean something other than what he said. It completely ignores his repeated calls for peaceful and lawful protest.  It seems like nothing more than political theatre that serves no purpose other than to let Pelosi give Trump the finger.   It's a complete waste of time.   
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Many legal experts on all sides disagree with you. But as @Maurile Tremblaycorrectly pointed out, impeachment is not about this anyhow. A “high crime” is not necessarily defined in pure legal terms. Trump’s use of the word peaceful doesn’t negate the rest of his speech which did incite the mob. 

 
Seven GOP House members have said they will vote to impeach.

In Clinton's impeachment vote, five Democrats sided with Republicans. 

 
I don’t know why I get these weird ideas in my head but...

Now suppose Trump is acquitted in the Senate. And suppose he runs for President again and wins. He could be impeached again!!

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
McConnell also said immediately after Wednesday that Impeachment wouldn't be taken up by the Senate until 1/20 or 1/21.
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I really hate this, and this whole episode just confirms -- as if we needed any more confirmation -- that our system doesn't have a way of handling a president who needs to be removed from office.  The 25th amendment wasn't written with something like this in mind, and impeachment is apparently way too slow and way too formal.  Some sort of provision for a no-confidence vote would have probably served us well here.

 
timschochet said:
I don’t know why I get these weird ideas in my head but...

Now suppose Trump is acquitted in the Senate. And suppose he runs for President again and wins. He could be impeached again!!
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He could be removed in the Senate and still run again...I think.  Unless there is a vote to also ban him from the presidency.  

 
9 Republicans have voted for impeachment so far with 19 Republicans remaining to vote.

 
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shader said:
timschochet said:
I don’t know why I get these weird ideas in my head but...

Now suppose Trump is acquitted in the Senate. And suppose he runs for President again and wins. He could be impeached again!!
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He could be removed in the Senate and still run again...I think.  Unless there is a vote to also ban him from the presidency.  
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14th Amendment would bar him from ever holding office again if he’s found guilty of sedition.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I really hate this, and this whole episode just confirms -- as if we needed any more confirmation -- that our system doesn't have a way of handling a president who needs to be removed from office.  The 25th amendment wasn't written with something like this in mind, and impeachment is apparently way too slow and way too formal.  Some sort of provision for a no-confidence vote would have probably served us well here.
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Correct. It was written by honorable people that loved the country more than any one representative and expected their predecessors to do the same. 

 
psychobillies said:
Can someone here point me to the words that Trump used to incite a riot?  I have looked at the transcript from the 6th and see where he suggested that his supporters keep fighting, but he also says to do it peacefully.     
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Direct quotes (think I counted correctly): "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fighting...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fighting...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...",  "...fight...". 

Oh, and to be fair: "peacefully"

 
Looks like 10 republicans voted to impeach.  I haven't seen a list of the 10 yet.  

ETA - Also looks like 4 abstained.  

 
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I'm sorry but having a "stop the steal" rally on the day Biden was to be certified, down the street from the capitol, alone, should be enough for an overwhelming majority to impeach him.  Yet most republicans voted not to. Just another sad day for the country and Trump's legacy. 

 
dgreen said:
Fred Upton
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This is my hometown Congressman, MI 6th. They last  voted for a Democrat for President in 1864 (George McClellan.)

I knew he was gonna vote this way based on recent quotes but that’s going to be extremely unpopular back home. Good on him for doing the right thing.

(southwest Michigan - Kalamazoo, Holland, Benton Harbor/St Joe, bunch of Lake Michigan beach towns.)

 
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BobbyLayne said:
This is my hometown Congressman, MI 6th. Last voted for a Democrat for President in 1864 (George McClellan.) I knew he was gonna vote this way based on recent votes but that’s going to be extremely unpopular back home. Good on him for doing the right thing.

(southwest Michigan - Kalamazoo, Holland, Benton Harbor/St Joe, bunch of Lake Michigan beach towns.)
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Along those same lines, Pete Meijer of the family that owns one of the biggest grocery/box store chains in the Midwest.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
I'm sorry but having a "stop the steal" rally on the day Biden was to be certified, down the street from the capitol, alone, should be enough for an overwhelming majority to impeach him.
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Pump the brakes a bit.

The rally was fine. If Trump had told the crowd to behave and if he had insisted on having better security around the Capitol, then the riot doesn't happen and even the leftiest of lefties isn't talking about impeachment today.

 
I have a question for lawyer types: conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt asserted this morning that once Trump has left office, any impeachment trial in the Senate would be unconstitutional: only the actual President can be the subject of that trial. 
Thoughts? 

 
BobbyLayne said:
This is my hometown Congressman, MI 6th. They last  voted for a Democrat for President in 1864 (George McClellan.)

I knew he was gonna vote this way based on recent quotes but that’s going to be extremely unpopular back home. Good on him for doing the right thing.

(southwest Michigan - Kalamazoo, Holland, Benton Harbor/St Joe, bunch of Lake Michigan beach towns.)
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My family spent about a week in Michigan this past Summer. We stayed in Holland the first night, drove up the coast the next day, then spent the rest of our time in Northern Michigan. Loved it. Great place in the Summer.

 
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