Congratulations NBA!

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

You have figured out a way to unite this country:  By having everyone agree that you've taken an idiotic stance. 

When was the last time that Warren, Julian Castro, Ted Cruz, South Park, Bob Ley, Clay Travis, Keith Olberman and a slew of others all agreed so passionately about a topic?  I mean, usually you could find at least two people to disagree with you if you said "Water is wet."  

Oh my God, what a PR nightmare for the NBA. 

[Dan Lambskin 13,615]

What’s this now?

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

Just now, Dan Lambskin said:

What’s this now?

With the Rockets owner saying he stands with Hong Kong and that he supports democracy.  To which the NBA scolded him, made him issue an apology, then sent out a letter to China apologizing for being political.  Because they said the NBA is not in the business of being political.    Seriously.    They said that.  Oh, man.  And as funny of a line as that is, they didn't actually mean for it to be humorous.  

[IvanKaramazov 21,953]

I haven't watched an NBA game since I was in college, but I might start watching so that I can boycott the league over this.

[Dan Lambskin 13,615]

3 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

With the Rockets owner saying he stands with Hong Kong and that he supports democracy.  To which the NBA scolded him, made him issue an apology, then sent out a letter to China apologizing for being political.  Because they said the NBA is not in the business of being political.    Seriously.    They said that.  Oh, man.  And as funny of a line as that is, they didn't actually mean for it to be humorous.  

Meh

[IvanKaramazov 21,953]

I mean, sure, China murders political dissidents and sells their organs, but who among us can really say what's right and what's wrong in this topsy-turvy world?

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I mean, sure, China murders political dissidents and sells their organs, but who among us can really say what's right and what's wrong in this topsy-turvy world?

Agreed.  Let's not rush to judge.  Plus, is there any proof that democracy is better than a communist dictatorship?  I mean, I feel like we're dealing with such small sample sizes, it's too early to say if one is better than the other for the citizens of that country.

[NewlyRetired 16,723]

15 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

With the Rockets owner saying he stands with Hong Kong and that he supports democracy.  To which the NBA scolded him, made him issue an apology, then sent out a letter to China apologizing for being political.  Because they said the NBA is not in the business of being political.    Seriously.    They said that.  Oh, man.  And as funny of a line as that is, they didn't actually mean for it to be humorous.  

I think it was the Rockets GM, not owner.

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

6 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

I think it was the Rockets GM, not owner.

Yes.  That is correct.  

[Walking Boot 8,296]

Didn't the NBA move the All Star game over a bill about who can use what bathroom? 

But you can't mention that it would be nice to stop murdering innocent people. 

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

12 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

Didn't the NBA move the All Star game over a bill about who can use what bathroom? 

But you can't mention that it would be nice to stop murdering innocent people. 

Yes.  But bathrooms are important.  

[Chemical X 5,750]

Follow the money......

[comfortably numb 7,551]

22 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

Didn't the NBA move the All Star game over a bill about who can use what bathroom? 

But you can't mention that it would be nice to stop murdering innocent people. 

Life lesson #575

Pick and choose your battles

[zoobird 177]

As weak as the NBA response has been, it's nothing compared to Blizzard Entertainment's recent actions.  An esports competitor spoke out against China during a recent competition and was removed from the competition and suspended for a year.

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

I thought it was funny that it took like 24 to 48 hours for any public person come out and denounce what the NBA did.  It was almost like they were all thinking, "Wait.  Is this a red thing or a blue thing?"  And when you saw people like Ted Cruz and Elizabeth Warren agreeing with each other, it really threw people off.  Like, "Well, I never agree with that person, but I always agree with that person.  How do I handle this?"  

I hope more stuff like this happens so people can realize we don't always have to think the other side is evil.

[HellToupee 15,641]

2 hours ago, Chemical X said:

Follow the money......

Vsin

[jb1020 1,537]

4 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

I think it was the Rockets GM, not owner.

Can't say "owner" in the NBA anymore.  #getwoke

[Bull Dozier 3,585]

30 minutes ago, jb1020 said:

Can't say "owner" in the NBA anymore.  #getwoke

What they didn't tell us was it is because they are reserving the term "owner" for China.

[Encumbrance 249]

"My," she sighed, "What big eyes you have!"

[NutterButter 6,158]

7 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

With the Rockets owner saying he stands with Hong Kong and that he supports democracy.  To which the NBA scolded him, made him issue an apology, then sent out a letter to China apologizing for being political.  Because they said the NBA is not in the business of being political.    Seriously.    They said that.  Oh, man.  And as funny of a line as that is, they didn't actually mean for it to be humorous.  

I thought it was the GM that made the original tweet, that it was the Rockets owner that made him apologize and that Adam Silver representing the NBA said that the GM was free to express his opinion?   But close.  

[Galileo 7,029]

I saw some sort of headline associated with this story last night on TV that started "China upset about..."  And I remember thinking...really?  All of China?  Over a billion people are upset about it?  

[NutterButter 6,158]

7 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I saw some sort of headline associated with this story last night on TV that started "China upset about..."  And I remember thinking...really?  All of China?  Over a billion people are upset about it?  

The one's that weren't upset have since been executed

[Ted Lange as your Bartender 2,549]

7 hours ago, zoobird said:

As weak as the NBA response has been, it's nothing compared to Blizzard Entertainment's recent actions.  An esports competitor spoke out against China during a recent competition and was removed from the competition and suspended for a year.

And they kept his prize money after he already won the competition he was interviewed at

[Ted Lange as your Bartender 2,549]

2 hours ago, Galileo said:

I saw some sort of headline associated with this story last night on TV that started "China upset about..."  And I remember thinking...really?  All of China?  Over a billion people are upset about it?  

Got to keep those social credit scores high

[Ranethe 1,700]

I read that a gamer made a live statement in support of protesters in Hong Kong and got banned for a year by Blizzard and stripped of money he won in a gaming tournament. I guess he was from Hong Kong, had just won a “Hearthstone” tournament and 10000 in winnings. Got banned and won’t receive the money he won. 

[rockaction 24,787]

Hanging your PR hopes on incrementalist freedom grants from oppressive regimes can often backfire like this.

NBA was dancing for the devil for a long time upon this theory, and is now getting a bit roasted.

Not everything is cut-and-dried, nor is this, but there's really no easy explanation or way to go about this with all the political, social, and monetary capital involved in the NBA/China arrangement, of which I admittedly know not enough to comment about, but know that a tenuous international basketball relationship does indeed exist between a corporate entity in the States and China. And it's a large corporate entity.

Which brings up questions about globalism, corporatism, and where the left and right populists have met over the past two decades in declaring the corporations bankrupt, corrupt, collusive, etc.

[GroveDiesel 9,212]

10 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I mean, sure, China murders political dissidents and sells their organs, but who among us can really say what's right and what's wrong in this topsy-turvy world?

Not just political dissidents, minorities they don’t like, people practicing religions they don’t like, etc. The fun part is that they’ve basically dispensed with the murdering them first part. Instead, when someone needs an organ, they just grab someone from the gulag, drag them into a surgical suite, and just start cutting them open and removing their organs. The person dies of course, suffering greatly. But hey, someone with a great social score just scored themselves a new kidney!

[IvanKaramazov 21,953]

19 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Not just political dissidents, minorities they don’t like, people practicing religions they don’t like, etc. The fun part is that they’ve basically dispensed with the murdering them first part. Instead, when someone needs an organ, they just grab someone from the gulag, drag them into a surgical suite, and just start cutting them open and removing their organs. The person dies of course, suffering greatly. But hey, someone with a great social score just scored themselves a new kidney!

See, when you put it that way, it's win-win.  The NBA gets some positive publicity, and some rich dude gets a liver.  

[Walking Boot 8,296]

18 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Not just political dissidents, minorities they don’t like, people practicing religions they don’t like, etc. The fun part is that they’ve basically dispensed with the murdering them first part. Instead, when someone needs an organ, they just grab someone from the gulag, drag them into a surgical suite, and just start cutting them open and removing their organs. The person dies of course, suffering greatly. But hey, someone with a great social score just scored themselves a new kidney!

 

I can see both sides of this issue, so it's wise for the NBA to avoid the fracas. Their time is better spent taking a principled stand on the vital, important issues of basic human right that need worldwide attention on them, like who pees next to whom.

[jvdesigns2002 3,152]

I don't want to be "hot take Jones" here--but I feel like Morey and the NBA are to blame here.    While I agree with Morey's original statement about Hong Kong--I just don't understand how a guy that has made a living touting himself as an analytics guru could not foresee that putting that tweet out there could possibly have some negative ramifications and ruffle some feathers.  I firmly believe that actions speak louder than words and his tweet was nothing more than empty symbolism.  The fact that he basically retracted it so quickly kind of exposed him as being a faux activist---the minute it could have effected his employment or wallet--he backed down super quick.  

The NBA's original reaction to the tweet was just as reprehensible.  It just goes to show how quick people are willing to abandon their morals and moral standing when it could possibly effect their economics.  It's not a good look for China, Morey, the Rockets, and the NBA.  

[EYLive 5,271]

https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china

#isthisallowed? [/noban]

[Doug B 6,771]

11 hours ago, Chemical X said:

Follow the money......

I was kind of wondering ...

:deepbreath:

Can the NBA not just kick China to the curb over this? Tear that check in half and walk away?

[Insein 10,714]

9 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I thought it was funny that it took like 24 to 48 hours for any public person come out and denounce what the NBA did.  It was almost like they were all thinking, "Wait.  Is this a red thing or a blue thing?"  And when you saw people like Ted Cruz and Elizabeth Warren agreeing with each other, it really threw people off.  Like, "Well, I never agree with that person, but I always agree with that person.  How do I handle this?"  

I hope more stuff like this happens so people can realize we don't always have to think the other side is evil.

It's so true. People were so flustered about which auto response they should have. Blindly follow their guy or auto hate the other guy.

[tommyboy 4,621]

This is a country that banned Winnie the Pooh because of a resemblance to Xi. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855

[Joe Summer 9,489]

This is all just a clever negotiating tactic to bring China to the table to get a more favorable TV deal. The Chinese have been taking advantage of the NBA for years, and Adam Silver has finally stood up to them, unlike that failure David Stern.

Look for Silver to announce the new deal in about two weeks.

[Christo 6,185]

7 hours ago, Galileo said:

I saw some sort of headline associated with this story last night on TV that started "China upset about..."  And I remember thinking...really?  All of China?  Over a billion people are upset about it?  

They like basketball. And they like oppression.

[Christo 6,185]

1 hour ago, Doug B said:

I was kind of wondering ...

:deepbreath:

Can the NBA not just kick China to the curb over this? Tear that check in half and walk away?

They could. But it would be hella painful. I saw somewhere that the TV contract alone was worth almost $1.5 Billion/yr.

[Encyclopedia Brown 2,635]

The Athletic (which I subscribe to) deleted and then disabled all comments on an article on this issue. I can't recall them doing this for any other article.

[GroveDiesel 9,212]

7 hours ago, Doug B said:

I was kind of wondering ...

:deepbreath:

Can the NBA not just kick China to the curb over this? Tear that check in half and walk away?

They certainly could, but it would likely cost them a lot of money. I’ve read some sentiments of people thinking that the NBA has leverage because the Chinese people realize that the NBA product is by far the best basketball product in the world and that the people would be really angry if they no longer had access to NBA games anymore.

But that ignores the reality of life in China. It doesn’t really matter what the people of China want anyway because the government controls their entire lives. And that government has shown that they are willing to spite their own people and even hurt themselves financially in the short term in order to exert long term control. Furthermore, there is a very strong patriotism/nationalism in China and people are very likely to simply go along with their government and reject the NBA as being evil and enemies of their country.

[JaxBill 6,834]

Best part is the way ESPN kisses up to the NBA, there's nary a word about this on Golic and Wingo. But they'll give you the WNBA finals score though.

[JaxBill 6,834]

@ewong: This is next level: A “news director” at ESPN forbids staffers there to discuss any politics related to the NBA / China / Hong Kong controversy — which is about China trying to force NBA executives to self-censor to keep access to China market. https://deadspin.com/internal-memo-espn-forbids-discussion-of-chinese-polit-1838881032

 

[IvanKaramazov 21,953]

20 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

@ewong: This is next level: A “news director” at ESPN forbids staffers there to discuss any politics related to the NBA / China / Hong Kong controversy — which is about China trying to force NBA executives to self-censor to keep access to China market. https://deadspin.com/internal-memo-espn-forbids-discussion-of-chinese-polit-1838881032

 

But they'll still keep us up to date on Colin Kaepernick, right?

[rockaction 24,787]

10 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

But they'll still keep us up to date on Colin Kaepernick, right?

Rite side of justice.

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

9 hours ago, Joe Summer said:

This is all just a clever negotiating tactic to bring China to the table to get a more favorable TV deal. The Chinese have been taking advantage of the NBA for years, and Adam Silver has finally stood up to them, unlike that failure David Stern.

Look for Silver to announce the new deal in about two weeks.

Clever tactic?  By apologizing and not saying anything?  By bending over and taking it with a smile?  This reminds me of when people were claiming how smart AB was when he got kicked off the Raiders. 

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

It's funny that no public figure (not associated with Disney or the NBA) has come out on the side of the NBA and the players and coaches.  The only people I've seen defend them are random internet folks.  I mean, this might be the most agreed upon thing in America since... well, ever.

Democracy is good - 98% approval rating.

[E Street Brat 1,610]

What happened in Philly last night? Pro Hong Kong protesters kicked out or something?

[Andy Dufresne 12,043]

@IvanKaramazov is slam dunking this thread.

[jvdesigns2002 3,152]

Was just watching CNBC--and I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread--but apparently the Chinese market currently represents 10% of the NBA's revenue.   Over the past few years--the growth of the NBA has predominately come from the Chinese market. They mentioned some stat that there are more NBA fans in China then there are people in the United States.   

[TheIronSheik 8,167]

1 minute ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Was just watching CNBC--and I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread--but apparently the Chinese market currently represents 10% of the NBA's revenue.   Over the past few years--the growth of the NBA has predominately come from the Chinese market. They mentioned some stat that there are more NBA fans in China then there are people in the United States.   

I'm surprised it's only 10%.  But it's probably also correct to say that the China revenue is rising while the US revenue is dropping.

[jvdesigns2002 3,152]

13 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I'm surprised it's only 10%.  But it's probably also correct to say that the China revenue is rising while the US revenue is dropping.

Oh for sure--and I think this is why the NBA is in a panic over this.   Effectively--their only real chance of growth or sustaining growth is to spread the popularity of their product into international markets.   There is no international market greater than China.  If this was any other country except for China--I think the NBA would easily just take the path of morality and just abandon that market and say "this is the right thing to do and there are plenty of bigger fish in the sea".   The only reason they are confused on what to do and what to say is because Morey effectively offended the biggest fish out there.  

Edited October 9, 2019 by jvdesigns2002