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Congratulations NBA! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter TheIronSheik
- Start date
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
So you are saying that Morey valued his money more than his morals? Weird that you are standing by him for doing what you are accusing James of. That's pretty hypocritical. In any case we have both made our points of view clear.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
coyote5
Footballguy
Dude, if you think he is materially running those businesses, I have a GREAT deal on some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you. Mostly he's investing his money and lending his name. That's different than what Elon Musk does, since you brought him up as a comparison.
Premier
Footballguy
Honest question: why is it so hard for you to believe he is not actively involved in those businesses?
Jayrod
Footballguy
Again, making good decisions isn't entrepreneurship.
That is a skill set that is quite rare and is not as easy as throwing money and your name at something.
Because he has a full time job as a basketball player. A true business owner/operator lives that stuff 24/7. Calling him an entrepreneur is, again, like calling me a golfer. Yeah technically he is an owner and investing and "running" a business, but he isn't really running the business.
coyote5
Footballguy
I'm saying it's apparent that he has surrounded himself with good business people. He's using the model that is laid out probably most famously by Magic Johnson. Same one that Shaq uses. Get your money invested in good businesses and grow your wealth. Use your name and brand to full advantage. I have no qualms with that. It's smart, good on them. But I really don't believe that they are materially involved in the actual operations of said businesses. Just my opinion, of course I have no way of knowing what kind of input they provide. I do think it's a pretty reasonable assessment when you factor in how much work Lebron needs to put into his current full time career in terms of practice and all that he likely needs to do to keep his body in shape as he moves into his mid 30s etc.
I don't think investing some $$ and lending your name is the same thing as what Elon Musk or others do, who have a vision for a business and build it from the ground up. That is what I think of as an entrepreneur. Lebron, Shaq etc are much more angel investors than entrepreneurs.
Premier
Footballguy
I agree he’s no Elon musk but I guess we have different interpretations of what an entrepreneur is.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Why don't you wait and see what happens to his revenue stream after he retires from basketball. I would bet that his revenue stream will still stay super strong and there is a great chance that just like Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan--that he will make MORE money from his entrepreneurial ventures than he ever did from playing basketball. He's at a point in his career where basketball is first--but if you believe he's a crappy entrepreneur--you would see his wealth stabilizing or sliding down after his retirement. I'd bet you that it goes up tremendously. When he retires--do not be surprised if he ends up being the next Oprah Winfrey or Tyler Perry type.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
I believe so. Web dictionary defines it as a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so.
It is a very specific skill set that takes years to develop and get good at and is different than being a business man. Just throwing money at something is not entrepreneurship. A true entrepreneur makes and runs a business, usually out of nothing. Like being a basketball player, it is something very few people are truly great at.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
So a kid that spends thousands of hours practicing and honing his skills as a basketball player. Risking not going to college and getting himself good enough at basketball to make it into the NBA out of high school--and creating an empire out of that takes little to no entrepreneurial skill? Thats your take? Do you think he was just born a good basketball player? There was no risk taken in the path that he paved to get where he is? You guys are changing the goal posts in your definitions. If you want to hate a person--just admit it. Don't change the goal posts to justify your hatred.
Premier
Footballguy
But you don’t know that he’s not doing this. I guess it’s really not worth discussing, reality is none of us know what he does but he is successful at it.
coyote5
Footballguy
His name and brand value don't disappear when he retires. Doesn't make him any more of an entrepreneur or less of an angel investor. I don't know what else to say. Agree to disagree on the amount of day to day input he's providing to these business ventures.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
We're going by the dictionary definition as opposed to the one you're making up to fit your argument. It's really not that hard to understand.
Premier
Footballguy
so you’re taking a strict “dictionary definition” (
) to degrade a guy for not being an entrepreneur (while making sure to mention earlier he only has a high school degree, so clearly he can’t be one - must be in the dictionary) all while having literally no idea at all what he contributes to that Entrepreneurial process. Hmmm. Seems a little inconsistent.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Dude, what are you talking about? I mean, you're so far off the deep end here, it's not even funny. I'd love to make some sort of snarky comment back to this post, but I honestly have no clue where you're going with this.so you’re taking a strict “dictionary definition” (
Regardless, I thought you were going away?
Premier
Footballguy
You’re saying you use a strict dictionary definition to define what the man is; however you inconsistently apply that logic because you don’t actually have any idea what he does (in other words you’re only making up what fits your argument).
It’s really not that hard to understand.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Yeah. If that's what you said. But you rambled on about high school and something. Why are you still talking with me? I don't know if you remember this or not, but you don't actually like me. Well. At least not anymore. You liked me before when I was funny and agreed with your viewpoints. But now that you realize we have difference of opinions, you don't find me as funny anymore. Because I've changed. Remember that? We both said bye and everything. It was kind of cool how we just parted ways and didn't say another word to each other.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
In defense of Capella, he can be dooshy, but he's definitely not a douchhe.
Freaking language filter.
Freaking language filter.
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Frankly, I'm surprised the ball-gargling media has decided to call Lebron out on this. Good for them (for once).
Premier
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Cap has spent the last month or so telling me how much he used to like me but now that I have different opinions than him, he doesn't like me. That's fine. I told him I had no problem with him. But after the umpteenth snide remark, I said he's a doosh. I stand by my remark. For some reason, he's decided to be dooshy to me every time we have a conversation. And that's his choice. But you can't act like a duck then get bothered when people call you a duck.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Which is exactly what I was saying. I have to remember that everyone on this board takes every post as it's literal meaning. Actually, scratch that. Not everyone. A lot of people. See. I almost screwed up again.
Premier
Footballguy
I didn’t say anything to you in this thread prior to you calling me a tool or whatever. But it’s fine, it’s all good. I know I can come off rough.Cap has spent the last month or so telling me how much he used to like me but now that I have different opinions than him, he doesn't like me. That's fine. I told him I had no problem with him. But after the umpteenth snide remark, I said he's a doosh. I stand by my remark. For some reason, he's decided to be dooshy to me every time we have a conversation. And that's his choice. But you can't act like a duck then get bothered when people call you a duck.
And it’s not that you disagree with me. Lot of people here I disagree with and get along with. All I said is I remembered you being a funnier guy and not always combative. But this place is just a bunch of words and we don’t know each other so who really cares. I shouldn’t have said anything, it was just an a observation.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Premier
Footballguy
glvsav37
Footballguy
I have no idea why anyone in a public position would ever use twitter for anything. That outlet is a cesspool of hate and people looking to be offended. Keep your options to yourself and you your closest friends and don't risk your job over something that can get blown out of proportion on twitter.
I got no dog in this fight, but I personally do not consider Lebron an entrepreneur in the classic sense. He ma be a very good businessman and make wise decisions with his money. But I think his wealth and status puts him in front of business opportunities that otherwise would not be there if he wasn't the elite player that he is.
As said earlier, yes he had to hone his craft, and work at being the best BB player of a generation, but that does not make him an entrepreneur any more than the greatest ping pong player of all time. They both have risen to the top of their profession, but the huge salary and the stage gives Lebron much more opportunity. Someone mentioned endorsements, Nike is not handing over truck fulls of money for the newest ping-pong sneaker.
I believe LeBron has surrounded himself with very good business and wealth managers who put him in positions to be successful. There may be projects he runs that he does do out of a love and giving heart. However I'm sure that those ventures are fully vetted and staffed with the best people before they even open their doors. I don't think Lebron is stuffing donation envelopes on a card table in his basement to look for donations to get his next non-profit started. To that, i'm sure there are even more ventures that are explored and killed early on that we will never hear about; we only get the successes.
I was fortunate to meet and have dinner with Steven Schussler a few weeks ago. He is the guy who invented the Rain Forrest Cafe and eventually sold the concept for stupid money. His story is that of a true entrepreneur. He built an entire working replica of the restaurant in his backyard, sunk untold amounts of money into the concept and was turned down by countless investors for years before finally finding someone to believe in it. He is still an insanely creative guy and is producing concepts all over the country, but now he has so much FU money that he can afford to explore crazy ideas.
I put him where he is currently and Lebron in similar boats, where they can afford to explore ventures with nothing risked. But I put Stephen light years above Lebron in terms of entrepreneurship because he risked everything on his idea and concept and built it to a business that made him wealthy.
On the flip side, I believe that if Lebron didn't have the talent to be the best basketball player, that any of the ventures he has created would be around (or at least with him running them).
I got no dog in this fight, but I personally do not consider Lebron an entrepreneur in the classic sense. He ma be a very good businessman and make wise decisions with his money. But I think his wealth and status puts him in front of business opportunities that otherwise would not be there if he wasn't the elite player that he is.
As said earlier, yes he had to hone his craft, and work at being the best BB player of a generation, but that does not make him an entrepreneur any more than the greatest ping pong player of all time. They both have risen to the top of their profession, but the huge salary and the stage gives Lebron much more opportunity. Someone mentioned endorsements, Nike is not handing over truck fulls of money for the newest ping-pong sneaker.
I believe LeBron has surrounded himself with very good business and wealth managers who put him in positions to be successful. There may be projects he runs that he does do out of a love and giving heart. However I'm sure that those ventures are fully vetted and staffed with the best people before they even open their doors. I don't think Lebron is stuffing donation envelopes on a card table in his basement to look for donations to get his next non-profit started. To that, i'm sure there are even more ventures that are explored and killed early on that we will never hear about; we only get the successes.
I was fortunate to meet and have dinner with Steven Schussler a few weeks ago. He is the guy who invented the Rain Forrest Cafe and eventually sold the concept for stupid money. His story is that of a true entrepreneur. He built an entire working replica of the restaurant in his backyard, sunk untold amounts of money into the concept and was turned down by countless investors for years before finally finding someone to believe in it. He is still an insanely creative guy and is producing concepts all over the country, but now he has so much FU money that he can afford to explore crazy ideas.
I put him where he is currently and Lebron in similar boats, where they can afford to explore ventures with nothing risked. But I put Stephen light years above Lebron in terms of entrepreneurship because he risked everything on his idea and concept and built it to a business that made him wealthy.
On the flip side, I believe that if Lebron didn't have the talent to be the best basketball player, that any of the ventures he has created would be around (or at least with him running them).
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Huh? This is the opposite of what you were saying. Go and read the entire last page from this thread where myself and Premier said numerous times that while it's totally understandable to disagree with Lebron on his response to the China situation--that calling him a moron is a ridiculous statement. Not only that--you were the one using the "literal" meaning of entrepreneur to try to back up your argument--when the vast majority of the public views and understands entrepreneurship as being enterprising. From the moment Lebron James was a child--he learned and honed a skill that made him a multi-millionaire by the time he was a teenager. By the time he is in his mid 40's--he would have taken that skill--and with wise business decisions, business risks, and investment---he will be a billionaire in regards to net worth. If that is not enterprising and if that doesn't take an entrepreneurial spirit--I don't know what is. This last post you put up is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you and others were saying. In fact--this past post is EXACTLY what @Premier and I were saying .
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
No. You can actually go back and read where I posted that I wasn't saying he was a moron. I was saying he was being moronic with his statement.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
glvsav37
Footballguy
Learning and honing a skill to place him as a very highly paid employee of an existing corporation is not an entrepreneur.
A true entrepreneur is someone who creates a successful business or entity in a space that is lacking one. Being a basketball player—even the best basketball player in the world—is not creating profitable business entity other then your own personal brand.
Had LJ not get drafted and decides he is going to build a whole new brand of basketball league around him and it takes off and does better than the NBA, then I would consider him a true entrepreneur.
Enterprising and entrepreneur are 2 totlaly different things. 1. is taking good advantage of resources you have (I.e. money) and turning them into more money is enterprising. 2. entrepreneurship is starting with an idea and building something from the ground up. Entrepreneurship is normally associated with someone who is bootstrapping and working in their idea to get it running, while enterprising is taking (good) advantage of an existing entity and leveraging it for your gain.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I've never claimed to not call him a moron. In fact, I've said it multiple times. He's a moron. A moron for the things he said during that press conference. Your response was that he's not a moron because he's a great basketball player. You also called him possibly the greatest entrepreneur ever. I said being a great basketball player doesn't make you smart.
I've already acknowledged all of these things. Yes, I've said everything you are saying I said. Me saying he's a moron doesn't mean I think he has a low IQ and licks the windows of the back of the small bus. Do you understand that?
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
@TheIronSheik
You supported this post with a handshake.
I said the above
Your response was the above.
@TheIronSheik
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
This is exactly my point. A great entrepreneur is someone who takes an idea and turns it into a business. Not someone who makes a lot of money and then invests it.
Premier
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills and re-read the last page. I clearly said multiple times that I do not agree with him on his China stance--albeit there are some minor truths to it. I never said he was the "greatest entrepreneur" ever--I said he is considered to be one of the best--as I considered entrepreneurial spirit one where somebody is always striving to create more and enterprise. My take on this issue has been crystal clear--it is you that is waffling back and forth. Make no mistake on that. Enjoy your day.I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I've never claimed to not call him a moron. In fact, I've said it multiple times. He's a moron. A moron for the things he said during that press conference. Your response was that he's not a moron because he's a great basketball player. You also called him possibly the greatest entrepreneur ever. I said being a great basketball player doesn't make you smart.
I've already acknowledged all of these things. Yes, I've said everything you are saying I said. Me saying he's a moron doesn't mean I think he has a low IQ and licks the windows of the back of the small bus. Do you understand that?
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
You're arguing two points here.
1. I've said he was an idiot. Case closed on this one. There's nothing more to argue about here.
2. What makes a great entrepreneur? I've said that it's someone who creates a business from the bottom up and makes a lot of money doing so. You've said a basketball player who hones his skills and makes money. This is where we are so far off.
I'm honestly trying to be super nice to you because I have no reason to argue with you. But you're getting close to being the first person I've ever blocked in 15 years on the board.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Go ahead and block me. I've been nothing but polite and civil in my posts with you even with an opposing point of view. You have been rude to me and @Premier. If you don't like or appreciate my posts or contributions to these forums---make me invisible. I don't mind.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Cap and I have a past. We've been on this board a long time and he's always been someone who needles people. I don't ever remember being rude to you. Honestly, I don't even know you. I can't tell you of anytime I remember talking to you other than this thread. And you've spent most of this thread trying to say that I've said things I didn't say. And I'm not thinking of blocking you because I'm mad at you. I'm thinking about blocking you because you become a stalker to me.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Bro--I am the furthest thing from confrontational at all--and in all seriousness--I'm worried about your memory. I made a post on the last page--and you are the one that engaged in a dialogue with me back and forth. There was no stalking--just conversation on both ends. I honestly have no idea where you are getting this from--and it seems to me like you are completely mis-remembering the entire dialogue we had since yesterday. I've gone back and forth with Cap a few times to--but that is the beauty of this board--you discuss--you agree sometimes--you disagree sometimes---and you move on. I might not agree with him all the time--but I 100% appreciate him and his contributions to these forums. With that said---I have never seen a poster do a complete 180 on a take, get called out for it--and then accuse the person they are having a discussion as being a stalker. In honesty--I take offense to even the notion of being labeled that. In any case--let's just both drop the dialogue before this gets any more weird. Enjoy your day.
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Although, out of curiosity, what was the 180 I took on what take? Super interested to know this before we part ways.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Honestly GB--i don't want to go there. Just read the last page where we started our dialogue and read down from there. That would be the best way to leave things.
