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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds

timschochet

By timschochet,
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Maurile Tremblay

It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract. It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interests.

IvanKaramazov

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtfu

TobiasFunke

Wait 'till the guy on the left hears about the guy on the right.

Jayrok

Jayrok 3,655

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so... wonder what plans are drafted to protect US troops still on the ground there and are told to stand aside during this invasion.  What happens, and when, if military action spills into contact with remaining US forces standing on the sidelines?  US air support in the air just in case?  What a mess.  

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That one guy

That one guy 2,123

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1 minute ago, McJose said:

I'm SURE Trump did this for a very good reason.

Exactly.  Where is it, where’s the reasoning for this?  What’s the “American interests” angle?  I’m willing to be convinced this is an appropriate move, but there’s some heavy lifting to be done to get there.  Without some message from top military brass along with Trump as CiC, this looks like turning our back on allies and promises, and sanctioning their slaughter

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Doug B

Doug B 6,571

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12 minutes ago, McJose said:

I'm SURE Trump did this for a very good reason.

Was there at least an arguable strategic reason for Trump to have ordered the reduction in US troops in Syria? Or are observers pretty sure it was to distract from the impeachment stuff?

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TheMagus

TheMagus 1,923

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I don't know how it is possible, but it always gets worse. Like this:

12 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Per Jennifer Griffin at Fox News, the US military has been ordered by President Trump not to help.

I sit here and stare at this in utter bewilderment and sadness. 

Is THIS impeachable to the republicans in Congress? He is doing unimaginable damage to future foreign policy efforts as well as likely directly (and intentionally) causing the deaths of our Allies. 

I want to see the phone call between him and Erdogan NOW. Not a summary. Not a memo. The entire phone call and if it is as bad as I suspect it is he needs to be removed from office NOW.

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Lutherman2112

Lutherman2112 2,129

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Was there at least an arguable strategic reason for Trump to have ordered the reduction in US troops in Syria? Or are observers pretty sure it was to distract from the impeachment stuff?

From my understanding: Trump believes ISIS in Syria is defeated and it's time to get out.

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TheMagus

TheMagus 1,923

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5 minutes ago, That one guy said:

Exactly.  Where is it, where’s the reasoning for this?  What’s the “American interests” angle?  I’m willing to be convinced this is an appropriate move, but there’s some heavy lifting to be done to get there.  Without some message from top military brass along with Trump as CiC, this looks like turning our back on allies and promises, and sanctioning their slaughter

You aren't going to get that. None of them knew this was going to happen or agree with it. Mattis resigned over this exact issue earlier in the year when Trump said he was going to withdraw from Syria.

Trump apparently made some "deal" with Erdogan without consulting the Pentagon or State.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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11 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

so... wonder what plans are drafted to protect US troops still on the ground there and are told to stand aside during this invasion.  What happens, and when, if military action spills into contact with remaining US forces standing on the sidelines?  US air support in the air just in case?  What a mess.  

I would imagine Turkish forces have been instructed not to attack them.

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Kal El

Kal El 3,691

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

so... wonder what plans are drafted to protect US troops still on the ground there and are told to stand aside during this invasion.  What happens, and when, if military action spills into contact with remaining US forces standing on the sidelines?  US air support in the air just in case?  What a mess.  

They were told to stand aside amd watch their former allies die, courtesy of your president.

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timschochet

timschochet 33,283

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7 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I don't know how it is possible, but it always gets worse. Like this:

I sit here and stare at this in utter bewilderment and sadness. 

Is THIS impeachable to the republicans in Congress? He is doing unimaginable damage to future foreign policy efforts as well as likely directly (and intentionally) causing the deaths of our Allies. 

I want to see the phone call between him and Erdogan NOW. Not a summary. Not a memo. The entire phone call and if it is as bad as I suspect it is he needs to be removed from office NOW.

None of that is going to happen. 

Lindsay Graham released a tweet this morning condemning the invasion and condemning Donald Trump. 

About 10 minutes after that tweet was released, Graham appeared on Fox & Friends and said that he was sending a letter to Nancy Pelosi telling her that she was wasting the country’s time because the Senate would never convict President Trump. 

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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1 minute ago, Jayrok said:

I'm sure they were told to not attack US forces.  I'm speaking more in terms of accidental/friendly fire incidents.  

I would imagine it's fairly easy not to fire on U.S. forces sitting in a military base.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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Just now, Jayrok said:

You'd think.  I hope it doesn't escalate. 

Beyond the slaughter of thousands of our allies and innocent families in a genocide that Turkey has been drooling to conduct for years? Yeah, totally.  I hope it doesn't escalate.

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bicycle_seat_sniffer

bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So- the Republicans will condemn this move very loudly. 

Then they will vote to exonerate Donald Trump in the Senate after he has been impeached. 

Then they will do their utmost to see that Donald Trump is re-elected President. 

unfortunately this is correct.....sigh

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Maurile Tremblay

Maurile Tremblay 22,247

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28 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Was there at least an arguable strategic reason for Trump to have ordered the reduction in US troops in Syria? Or are observers pretty sure it was to distract from the impeachment stuff?

It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract.

It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interests.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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4 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Not what I meant but thanks for the sarcasm. 

I understand, but "escalation" would mean that the U.S. steps in to defend its allies against a genocide.  Obviously I would prefer we are not involved in any armed conflicts.  If we are in any, that would be one that I would support.

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bigbottom

bigbottom 10,953

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

I thought I heard this morning that Trump spoke with Erdogan and gave him the go ahead, but told him not to go too far.  Did I hear that correctly?

Never mind.  I think this was a discussion of Trumps tweet where he said that he would step in if Turkey went "too far."

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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2 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract.

It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interets.

Oh, but it's not like Turkey has anything that would be of interest to Trump.  Like Trump Tower Istanbul.  Or the Khashoggi tapes.

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parasaurolophus

parasaurolophus 6,986

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11 minutes ago, That one guy said:

Exactly.  Where is it, where’s the reasoning for this?  What’s the “American interests” angle?  I’m willing to be convinced this is an appropriate move, but there’s some heavy lifting to be done to get there.  Without some message from top military brass along with Trump as CiC, this looks like turning our back on allies and promises, and sanctioning their slaughter

The reason is getting TFO of an open ended conflict. This isnt some surprise out of left field that nobody knew could happen. Trump announced that he was doing it a looooooong time ago. It has been debated for months. This article announced it was happening 10 months ago. 

If it isnt the 10,000 isis fighters we have to worry about it is the 50,000 people at the al-Hawl camp. This article is from August 31. So in other words before this was the political battle it is today. There is a section of the camp that has 12000 people that the SDF wont even set foot in anymore. Because a random weapons check almost started a full scale riot. 

Quote

hot, overcrowded and unsanitary conditions has now become a rallying cry for supporters across Isis’s social media networks. 

Quote

As if life in this place wasn’t bad enough these women are monsters,” said one resident at al-Hawl who asked not to be named to avoid retribution. “I can’t get the medicine I need for my son when he’s sick, the toilets are overflowing. And then these women will burn your tent and beat your children just because they can.

The whole thing is so fubared and there is no end game or decent solutions available. If we pull out we risk pissing off the kurds. If we stay with the small force we have and rely on the SDF like we have, we risk the radicals and their dispersed families being held by the SDF eventually being the problem since the young children in that camp are being raised by psycho radicalized muslim women. 

 

 

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ffldrew

ffldrew 3,236

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9 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The reason is getting TFO of an open ended conflict. This isnt some surprise out of left field that nobody knew could happen. Trump announced that he was doing it a looooooong time ago. It has been debated for months. This article announced it was happening 10 months ago. 

If it isnt the 10,000 isis fighters we have to worry about it is the 50,000 people at the al-Hawl camp. This article is from August 31. So in other words before this was the political battle it is today. There is a section of the camp that has 12000 people that the SDF wont even set foot in anymore. Because a random weapons check almost started a full scale riot. 

The whole thing is so fubared and there is no end game or decent solutions available. If we pull out we risk pissing off the kurds. If we stay with the small force we have and rely on the SDF like we have, we risk the radicals and their dispersed families being held by the SDF eventually being the problem since the young children in that camp are being raised by psycho radicalized muslim women. 

 

 

We drop bales of high quality weed into the camps and come up with a way to blare some reggae and Grateful Dead, Phish and Widespread on them - they wont care a bit about war. Drop some on the Turkish forces and do the same. ETA: Put some 3 Stooges on the TV stations.

What I might be in for as well is someone miscalculating a destination of a cruise missile to hit the Trump Towers Istanbul.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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1 minute ago, ffldrew said:

We drop bales of high quality weed into the camps and come up with a way to blare some reggae and Grateful Dead, Phish and Widespread on them - they wont care a bit about war. Drop some on the Turkish forces and do the same.

What I might be in for as well is someone miscalculating a destination of a cruise missile to hit the Trump Towers Istanbul.

Are you kidding? Turkey is going to defend Trump Tower to its dying breath.  Four months after they threatened to seize it, Trump agreed to withdraw and let them murder our allies.

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Jobber

Jobber 2,343

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1 hour ago, Jackstraw said:

He's letting our allies get slaughtered. 

Cool cool cool. 

Man how far are we going down this rathole?

GB, Canada, Germany, etc next time we lobby for support in a  conflict:

”Yeah, I think we’re going to sit this one out”

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skycriesmary

skycriesmary 661

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1 hour ago, Jackstraw said:

He's letting our allies get slaughtered. 

Cool cool cool. 

Man how far are we going down this rathole?

Until the little orange man isn't in office.

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timschochet

timschochet 33,283

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The reason is getting TFO of an open ended conflict. This isnt some surprise out of left field that nobody knew could happen. Trump announced that he was doing it a looooooong time ago. It has been debated for months. This article announced it was happening 10 months ago. 

 

 

 

Yes it is in line with Trump’s isolationist policy. He campaigned on it. 

But a good amount of the criticism is how Trump went about this. He announced it suddenly after a phone call. There was no consultation with the Pentagon, or with Congress, or with our allies. There was no discussion with the Kurds. There was no strategic withdrawal, or negotiation with Turkey agreeing to limit their response. There was no settlement of the ISIS prisoners. 

And all of this was done after Trump has spent the last 2 years taking credit for the destruction of ISIS- “I destroyed ISIS”- how many times have we heard that? When it was the Kurds, our honorable allies that we have now betrayed, who did 90% of that work with the guidance of American military that had been placed there for that purpose by President Obama. 

Finally- you cannot separate this move from the impeachment inquiry because we are forced to question ALL of Donald Trump’s foreign policy decisions- we simply don’t know how many are being done in his personal interests, rather than the nation’s. 

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Jobber

Jobber 2,343

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Posted

What makes this even worse than I first thought, keep in mind that a vast amount of US foreign intelligence comes from cooperation from locals. I would imagine most of those locals put a lot on the line in trusting the US to make good on promises (monetary, or otherwise). I'm can almost guarantee this move from Trump will make it much more difficult for us from here on out. 

Here's hoping the IC comes through and serves up mountains of evidence against Trump to hasten the impeachment and potential removal.

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cosjobs

cosjobs 14,797

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1 hour ago, TheMagus said:

I don't know how it is possible, but it always gets worse. Like this:

I sit here and stare at this in utter bewilderment and sadness. 

Is THIS impeachable to the republicans in Congress? He is doing unimaginable damage to future foreign policy efforts as well as likely directly (and intentionally) causing the deaths of our Allies. 

I want to see the phone call between him and Erdogan NOW. Not a summary. Not a memo. The entire phone call and if it is as bad as I suspect it is he needs to be removed from office NOW.

Get.in line

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 let France or Britain of Canada step in ... why aren't any of those countries stepping in ?

Just spitballing, here, but probably because they don't have an airbase full of troops in Syria.

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That one guy

That one guy 2,123

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

The reason is getting TFO of an open ended conflict. This isnt some surprise out of left field that nobody knew could happen. Trump announced that he was doing it a looooooong time ago. It has been debated for months. This article announced it was happening 10 months ago. 

If it isnt the 10,000 isis fighters we have to worry about it is the 50,000 people at the al-Hawl camp. This article is from August 31. So in other words before this was the political battle it is today. There is a section of the camp that has 12000 people that the SDF wont even set foot in anymore. Because a random weapons check almost started a full scale riot. 

The whole thing is so fubared and there is no end game or decent solutions available. If we pull out we risk pissing off the kurds. If we stay with the small force we have and rely on the SDF like we have, we risk the radicals and their dispersed families being held by the SDF eventually being the problem since the young children in that camp are being raised by psycho radicalized muslim women. 

 

 

I’ll read the second article later, but the first one does nothing to make this move by Trump a good one, and certainly not a logical one.  I remember when he first made this proclamation it was without consult and made impulsively, it was then followed by backlash and abandoned (good chance Trump made some claim of never having said such things).  Here he’s doing it again, but with real life consequences to our ally the SDF, and probably to ourselves as this really could open Pandora’s box with regards to ISIS and radicalizing those who would rightly feel wronged and deserted by us.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

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3 minutes ago, That one guy said:

I’ll read the second article later, but the first one does nothing to make this move by Trump a good one, and certainly not a logical one.  I remember when he first made this proclamation it was without consult and made impulsively, it was then followed by backlash and abandoned (good chance Trump made some claim of never having said such things).  Here he’s doing it again, but with real life consequences to our ally the SDF, and probably to ourselves as this really could open Pandora’s box with regards to ISIS and radicalizing those who would rightly feel wronged and deserted by us.

You can say it was impulsively, but it was a few months after Turkey threatened to seize Trump Tower.

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