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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds

timschochet

By timschochet,
in The Politics Forum

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Maurile Tremblay

It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract. It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interests.

IvanKaramazov

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtfu

TobiasFunke

Wait 'till the guy on the left hears about the guy on the right.

Sinn Fein

Sinn Fein 33,971

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SoBeDad said:

I thought ISIL and Iran were our biggest threats. This move helps them. 

I think you are confusing "our biggest threats" with Trump's business dealings - only one of those things matter now.

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parasaurolophus

parasaurolophus 7,016

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, That one guy said:

I’ll read the second article later, but the first one does nothing to make this move by Trump a good one, and certainly not a logical one.  I remember when he first made this proclamation it was without consult and made impulsively, it was then followed by backlash and abandoned (good chance Trump made some claim of never having said such things).  Here he’s doing it again, but with real life consequences to our ally the SDF, and probably to ourselves as this really could open Pandora’s box with regards to ISIS and radicalizing those who would rightly feel wronged and deserted by us.

The first article wasn't to lay out why it is the right decision. It was simply to point out that we are no closer to a solution. The objections were the same back then. You can go back even to(I believe) March of 2018 to where Trump declared it was happening. Then you can go back to Obama being reluctant to get involved in a long term conflict. 

This is the problem with these things. They simply never end because there is never a "good time" for them to end. There is always talk that if we pull out we leave a power vacuum, etc. 

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Shula-holic

Shula-holic 2,223

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The first article wasn't to lay out why it is the right decision. It was simply to point out that we are no closer to a solution. The objections were the same back then. You can go back even to(I believe) March of 2018 to where Trump declared it was happening. Then you can go back to Obama being reluctant to get involved in a long term conflict. 

This is the problem with these things. They simply never end because there is never a "good time" for them to end. There is always talk that if we pull out we leave a power vacuum, etc. 

This is pretty much the way I feel.  I admit I'm uneasy and this is a bad situation, but not sure it was ever going to be anything other than this.  We can't stay there forever.  I think long term it goes back to where it used to be, kind of an understanding between Assad and the Kurds.  Assad is going to be in charge of Syria and he's an ethnic minority himself.  In the past he's been willing to kind of allow them their own space as they aren't actively fighting against him.  I've seen reports there have been some Kurdish held areas that some Syrian and Russian forces have been noticed in, almost testing the waters.

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Stealthycat

Stealthycat 1,665

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

Just spitballing, here, but probably because they don't have an airbase full of troops in Syria.

US allows our allies and/or the UN nations to use our airbase

solved 

maybe ... other countries don't want to risk their citizens lives and spend billions on it ? 

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

US allows our allies and/or the UN nations to use our airbase

solved 

maybe ... other countries don't want to risk their citizens lives and spend billions on it ? 

1. No, we don't let other countries take over our airbases.

2. Maybe... he announced it yesterday and the attack happened today.  Who was going to get that done in less than 24 hours? A thing that we would never do?

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Kal El

Kal El 3,691

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

kind of?

 

At least there are no Americans or Christians in the way . :oldunsure:

 

Quite a few Kurds are Christian, but that shouldn't matter, this is a human problem. Trump screwed them over, and it'll come back on us.

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Workhorse

Workhorse 2,194

Posted
Posted

Jennifer Griffin from FoxNews:  I am told by well-placed source that POTUS "went off script" from national security team's talking points in his phone conversation with the Turkish President. US military source: "a lot of people will die, a complete withdrawal of US forces from Syria is now all but assured."

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bicycle_seat_sniffer

bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Insert words here to describe Trump that would get me banned...

Disgusting statement and actions/inaction.

Blood is on his hands and all the GOP who have enabled him.

the gop has come out again this move rather bigly.......

so who is really calling the shots?

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sho nuff

sho nuff 16,596

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

the gop has come out again this move rather bigly.......

so who is really calling the shots?

Come out against by being disappointed...thats about it.  With them...actions speak louder than words.

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BigJim®

BigJim® 1,051

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

the gop has come out again this move rather bigly.......

so who is really calling the shots?

Words are cheap, unfortunately. It's like the T&P issue where I think Republicans, while in parallel are running interference protecting actually illegal foreign relations are going to wind up being viewed as the party who enabled merely unconscionable and repugnant foreign policies - no matter what wind comes out of their mouths. I think team Trump realized the timing is perfect to do whatever pro-Russia things he can imagine, as he's put the Senate Republicans in a proverbial catch 22 re: his rights to conduct unlimited foreign policy. I mean, if they are spewing the Trump talking points that his authority includes leveraging congressional earmarked assistance to mine dirt to help him in a personal/political context, how can they then question that it also includes determining actual US foreign policy? It will look even worse after Trump pulls out of the open skies treaty, and they still take on the record position that he can't be impeached. 

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The General

The General 24,239

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

US allows our allies and/or the UN nations to use our airbase

solved 

maybe ... other countries don't want to risk their citizens lives and spend billions on it ? 

The Kurds were our allies.

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That one guy

That one guy 2,154

Posted
Posted

I don’t think any of us opposed to these events do so under any pretense of favoring some never ending military occupation; pretty certain most all Americans, Rs and Ds alike, want our troops home.  The issue I have here isn’t that it was done, it’s the how, why, and when it was done.  Nothing about this makes sense: not from a military strategy position, not from a foreign policy position,  not from the fight against terrorism position, and not from the America as a trusted ally position.  

Again, admitting my laymen’s level of understanding of all the above, I’m willing, open, even hopeful that an explanation for this move exists and will be communicated by the decision makers that changes my mind.  It still hasn’t been offered, though.  Coming from team “America first!”, those championing the greatness of our military and ideals, this all feels like a betrayal to both, an appalling moment.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Wat?

 

 

Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy." He says they're only interested in fighting for "their land." He adds, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds."

That might have something to do with the fact that they were living in a formerly British occupied territory in Iraq and involved in, you know, a revolution trying to claim their own country.  From what the British did.  Probably not very keen on joining them at Normandy.

Edited by Henry Ford
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Biff84

Biff84 2,804

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Trump just said he's not worried about ISIS prisoners escaping because they will just go to Europe.

#holymoly

It amazes me that I can still be shocked by what he says/does, but wtf? Don’t worry about these terrorists that I set out to defeat and ‘wipe off the earth’ because they are just going to go to Europe and attack our allies there.

You know who will make up the next major terrorist group? The allies we’re currently betraying. And we will be their main target.

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Sinn Fein

Sinn Fein 33,971

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, That one guy said:

Nothing about this makes sense: not from a military strategy position, not from a foreign policy position,  not from the fight against terrorism position, and not from the America as a trusted ally position.

Now, as a thought experiment - re-think your position, but from the perspective of Russia.

 

I think you will see that it starts to make sense.

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Kal El

Kal El 3,691

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Wat?

 

 

Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy." He says they're only interested in fighting for "their land." He adds, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds."

What a complete fool Trump is. "Oh they didn't help us 70 years ago, no biggie if they're systematically eliminated or oppressed."

 

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The General

The General 24,239

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Trump just said he's not worried about ISIS prisoners escaping because they will just go to Europe.

#holymoly

That press conference was jaw dropping. So many lies, so much nonsense. These reporters just stand there and move on to the next questions.

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That one guy

That one guy 2,154

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Now, as a thought experiment - re-think your position, but from the perspective of Russia.

 

I think you will see that it starts to make sense.

No, I get that and have assumed as much from the start.  But I still want someone in leadership to at least attempt to defend this.  I probably won’t agree with any explanation, but damnit try!  I think maybe I’m angrier because the line should be crossed here with regard to career civil servants; deference to the office of the President should end here

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IvanKaramazov

IvanKaramazov 21,369

Posted
Posted

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

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Henry Ford

Henry Ford 60,520

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

Maybe it'll be better received from a lifelong Republican like yourself

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Kal El

Kal El 3,691

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

There's always the outside chance we're seeing the emergence of an actual supervillain. 

Honestly, I don't believe he understands just how far reaching the consequences of his actions truly are. Millions of Kurds will now never trust us again, he's clearly asked multiple countries to make up dirt on political opponents, we already know what he wanted to do at the border, to say nothing of forcibly separating families and putting them in camps just because they wanted a better life but made the mistake of coming in illegally.

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Sinn Fein

Sinn Fein 33,971

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

Maybe when the re-make Princess Bride:

 

Vizzini: Let me put it this way: have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Trump?

Dread Pirate Roberts: Yes.

Vizzini: Morons

 

 

 

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Yankee23Fan

Yankee23Fan 9,302

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

He's a ####ing disgrace. 

Sometimes the F word is more than appropriate.

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adonis

adonis 9,879

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtful IMO) or dementia or some other form of mental illness, the guy exhibits serious cognitive impairment.

It's not helpful for the country to ignore the obvious.

For years now he's been unable to string together fully coherent sentences that stay on topic and make sense.  This has only gotten worse.  And as it has gotten worse, he's systematically been removing moderately reasonable people from around him and replacing them with people who have no business in their positions or who have no power, or both.

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dkp993

dkp993 6,999

Posted
Posted
On 9/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, dkp993 said:

Based on Trumps comments this morning admitting to threatening to withhold 250 million due to “corruption” is it possible he actually wants to get impeached at this point?  He’s acting like an addict who wants to get caught, almost like a cry for help.  
 

He really did have an idealistic lifestyle prior to being elected (which I truly believe he never thought would happen and didn’t really want) and now the weight and pressure of the office have to be getting to him.  His ego won’t allow him to not run again in 2020 and he loves playing the victim role. So he’s self sabotaging to give himself an out (protecting his ego for the election loss).  

I posted this a few weeks ago in another thread but I truly feel like Trumps actions here with Turkey falls right in line with my thinking with this previous post.  Classic self-sabotaging behavior 

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parasaurolophus

parasaurolophus 7,016

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, That one guy said:

I don’t think any of us opposed to these events do so under any pretense of favoring some never ending military occupation; pretty certain most all Americans, Rs and Ds alike, want our troops home.  The issue I have here isn’t that it was done, it’s the how, why, and when it was done.  Nothing about this makes sense: not from a military strategy position, not from a foreign policy position,  not from the fight against terrorism position, and not from the America as a trusted ally position.  

Again, admitting my laymen’s level of understanding of all the above, I’m willing, open, even hopeful that an explanation for this move exists and will be communicated by the decision makers that changes my mind.  It still hasn’t been offered, though.  Coming from team “America first!”, those championing the greatness of our military and ideals, this all feels like a betrayal to both, an appalling moment.

The only thing that you can make a legit argument about is the "why". With this guy you never can be sure what his motivations are. 

In March we announce we are cutting back soon. In december we say 4 months. Then in February we hem and haw. March we hem and haw again, but still commit that we will be withdrawing at some point and cut the troops in half. Finally in October we say we will be pulling out. 

It would seem after it being out there for many many months and already having been a reduction down to a minimal force, how much more notice or slow of a withdrawal did people want?

In the cartoon that my toddler loves watching Spirit: Riding Free, Lucky Prescott gets upset when she finds out that her dad is going to get remarried. She claims that she is upset because he didn't talk to her about it first and she found out by overhearing. Her wise friend Pru calls her out on it and says hogwash, you aren't mad that he didn't talk to you first, you are mad he is getting remarried, who you crappin with this diversionary excuse for anger on twitter.

Or something like that. 

Also lets not all forget... 

Quote

This is not a snap decision. And it’s not a surprise to anybody because it’s exactly what the president said he was going to do

 

 

 

 

 

 

That quote is from december

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cosjobs

cosjobs 14,846

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Damn those Kurds for not helping us at Normandy! The Chinese didn’t help us there either. 

And the Ruskies were busy covering their own asses in Stalingrad

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urbanhack

urbanhack 12,193

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

Wat?

 

 

Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy." He says they're only interested in fighting for "their land." He adds, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds."

Here are countries that did not fight with the US at Normandy whose leaders Trump nonetheless helps or praises:

- Saudi Arabia
- Russia
- North Korea
- Israel
- Turkey
- Phillipines
- Egypt
- Hungary

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