Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds

[jamny 6,330]

5 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

We don't need a massive presence.  A small support team of special forces, I believe (and as northern Syria has shown), is enough to keep (much of) the peace.  Yes, those forces are in harm's way.  But with zero U.S. involvement, things get ugly really fast, as we're sadly seeing.  

Exactly. Our presence alone as advisers and air support was enough to keep the Kurds safe. No reason to pull out other than to appease Erdogan. A shameful act.

[The General 24,239]

40 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

its interesting to see liberals/left leaners greatly desiring war and conflict 

By cutting bait and leaving this allowed Erdogan to bomb away. He wouldn’t have done this with our troops there. 

[Stealthycat 1,656]

44 minutes ago, tuffnutt said:

It’s interesting to see people conflate desiring war with not abandoning our allies to genocide 

why are other countries not rallying to Syria ?

[Stealthycat 1,656]

https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/kurdish-people-fast-facts/index.html

 

violence, war, bombings, killing .......... its what that region seems to do and all they want to do

[timschochet 33,373]

The Republicans oppose this but so what? What are they going to do, pass a bill condemning Trump’s decision? The damage is already done. 

[dkp993 6,999]

7 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

why are other countries not rallying to Syria ?

You really need to go back and re-read, then re-read again, then one more time re-read the responses since your last post.  It can not be more clear and you conflating it with other questions that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it doesn’t change the answers.   

[TwinTurbo 684]

35 minutes ago, Zow said:

Defending an ally is desiring war and conflict? 

Look, I'm a bit of an isolationist myself when it comes to foreign conflict, but we pledged allegiance to the Kurds and we backed out knowing they'd get attacked. First, that's just a weak, cowardly move. Second, we are demonstrating to the world that an allegiance with us may not be a sure thing. I don't see how that could be a good thing. 

👍 If you can't have your friend's back, you're not much of a friend. I read the Kurds have an old saying that they have no friends but the mountains. And I agree we should not abandon them.

[The General 24,239]

Seems like a good time to address Military spending. Start cutting that ASAP.

[urbanhack 12,143]

27 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/kurdish-people-fast-facts/index.html

 

violence, war, bombings, killing .......... its what that region seems to do and all they want to do

https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status/1182028993316478976?s=20

[urbanhack 12,143]

3 minutes ago, The General said:

Seems like a good time to address Military spending. Start cutting that ASAP.

Yep.  Trump was supposed to pull the covers back on the military industrial complex during the "big reveal" which never happened.  

[timschochet 33,373]

7 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

You really need to go back and re-read, then re-read again, then one more time re-read the responses since your last post.  It can not be more clear and you conflating it with other questions that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it doesn’t change the answers.   

I was going to advise you not to waste time with him (which is very good advice BTW) but SC’s views are emblematic of the isolationist branch of the Republican Party that Trump has come to represent. 

They’re lazy. They’re ignorant of history. They believe that America has no responsibilities whatsoever to the rest of the world, and they refuse to consider any long term consequences. 

President Trump mentioned Normandy yesterday, one of our greatest military achievements in history. The greatest lesson of Normandy is this: it was unnecessary. All that sacrifice, all those lives lost and treasure spent- none of it needed to happen. It happened because during the 1920s and 1930s we allowed isolationists to take over the foreign policy of this country. They were exactly the same as Trump and his followers are now: lazy and ignorant of history. They even used the same phrase: America First. They controlled this nation’s actions until the whole world became dominated by murderous dictators who threatened our existence, forcing us to fight a bloody war which we were, frankly, lucky to win. 

Now, 75 years later, these same fools have returned with the same message that we can ignore the rest of the world, ignore our former allies, and go our own way. And it’s just as idiotic as it was the first time. Even worse in this age of terrorism and potential nuclear horror. When innocent Americans die we will know whom to blame. Not that it will help us. 

[urbanhack 12,143]

https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1182312629534101510?s=20

[timschochet 33,373]

If anyone wants to read some good books about the years between World War I and World War II, and how foreign policy extremely similar to President Trump’s led to disaster, I recommend: 

The Collapse of the Third Republic by William L. Shirer

Modern Times by Paul Johnson

The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester 

[Kal El 3,691]

9 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1182312629534101510?s=20

People need to retweet all of these to Trump, maybe he'll finally grow a conscience. Then again, maybe I'll finally grow that money tree.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Kal El
Stupid autocorrect

[Yankee23Fan 9,295]

9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

If anyone wants to read some good books about the years between World War I and World War II, and how foreign policy extremely similar to President Trump’s led to disaster, I recommend: 

The Collapse of the Third Republic by William L. Shirer

Modern Times by Paul Johnson

The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester 

Or, you know - review WWII.

[HellToupee 15,525]

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

[timschochet 33,373]

1 minute ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Or, you know - review WWII.

For this discussion- Trump’s foreign policy- the years before World War II Are even more important. 

[sho nuff 16,570]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

Thumbs up to that weak ### retort by him?

[GROOT 1,173]

NATO has 29 states - I don't see Europe or any other member doing anything.

[timschochet 33,373]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

Let me stop at the first sentence. Yes it’s true they’ve been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. Yet they haven’t until now. Why? Because with a few hundred soldiers we prevented it, that’s why. 

This guy is despicable. Full stop. 

[jamny 6,330]

2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

I'm sure those people that are dying as I type this will appreciate sanctions against Turkey after being loyal allies to the US.

[hammerva 516]

9 minutes ago, Kal El said:

People need to retweet all of these to Trump, maybe he'll finally grow a conscience. Then again, maybe I'll finally grow that money tree.

Like they would give a crap about a bunch of non white and/or non-Christian people getting slaughtered.  

[timschochet 33,373]

1 minute ago, GROOT said:

NATO has 29 states - I don't see Europe or any other member doing anything.

They could and should do more. How does that lessen our own responsibility? 

[timschochet 33,373]

Just now, hammerva said:

Like they would give a crap about a bunch of non white and/or non-Christian people getting slaughtered.  

Oh don’t kid yourself. Plenty of Christians are at risk of being slaughtered. 

[zoonation 5,080]

5 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

yeah.  what a buffoon.

[HellToupee 15,525]

9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Let me stop at the first sentence. Yes it’s true they’ve been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. Yet they haven’t until now. Why? Because with a few hundred soldiers we prevented it, that’s why. 

This guy is despicable. Full stop. 

President Trump did the right thing.  Obama illegally entered Syria and was supporting a quasi-nation state within its borders.  And we were obligated to defend it forever?  Against Turkey, a NATO ally?   This was never going to end well.  President Trump was right to finally pull the plug and end what would have become another endless war.Watch them closely and hit Turkey with sanctions if the overstep

[timschochet 33,373]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

President Trump did the right thing.  Obama illegally entered Syria and was supporting a quasi-nation state within its borders.  And we were obligated to defend it forever?  Against Turkey, a NATO ally?   This was never going to end well.  President Trump was right to finally pull the plug and end what would have become another endless war.Watch them closely and hit Turkey with sanctions if the overstep

You’re wrong. I’ve explained why. 

But even if you were right, the way he did it, suddenly, without consultation with the Kurds, our other allies, or the Pentagon, in such a way that allowed Turkey to attack immediately, is as big a catastrophe as the decision itself, and just as indefensible. 

[Amused to Death 7,113]

Pulling out of Syria is one thing, pulling the rug out from under everyone - including our own Pentagon - is quite another.

And informing everyone about via a tweet is cowardly even for President Bone Spurs..

Edited October 10, 2019 by Amused to Death

[sho nuff 16,570]

6 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

President Trump did the right thing.  Obama illegally entered Syria and was supporting a quasi-nation state within its borders.  And we were obligated to defend it forever?  Against Turkey, a NATO ally?   This was never going to end well.  President Trump was right to finally pull the plug and end what would have become another endless war.Watch them closely and hit Turkey with sanctions if the overstep

This is not the right thing.

Abandoning allies and allowing a resurgence of ISIS to appease Erdogan and Putin is not the right thing.

Sanctions after the death of thousands are toothless.

[E Street Brat 1,581]

I’ve skipped a few pages here so hopefully it’s already been stated up thread, but seeing the words, allies, friends, and loyal is far from accurate when talking about the Syrian Kurds.

 

The Syrian Kurds here are not really our friends or allies. They are more of an enemy of our enemy.  

I’m no big fan of Turkey here and what they are doing, but let’s not kid ourselves or sugar coat or pretend that the PPK Kurds are like Canadians to us.

[E Street Brat 1,581]

I’m also amused by people who demanded Gitmo be closed and AQ fighters be released are now scared of ISIS [aka the JV team] prisons being emptied,

 

[timschochet 33,373]

29 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

 

Sanctions after the death of thousands are toothless.

This in particular is highly reminiscent of Neville Chamberlain’s guarantee of what remained of Czechoslovakia AFTER giving the Sudetenland to Germany. In the end it meant nothing. 

[timschochet 33,373]

13 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

I’m also amused by people who demanded Gitmo be closed and AQ fighters be released are now scared of ISIS [aka the JV team] prisons being emptied,

 

I’m not aware of anyone who demanded Gitmo be closed also demanding that AQ fighters be released. The argument, which I disagreed with, was that they deserved trial and regular imprisonment. 

[Henry Ford 60,520]

4 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

I’ve skipped a few pages here so hopefully it’s already been stated up thread, but seeing the words, allies, friends, and loyal is far from accurate when talking about the Syrian Kurds.

 

The Syrian Kurds here are not really our friends or allies. They are more of an enemy of our enemy.  

I’m no big fan of Turkey here and what they are doing, but let’s not kid ourselves or sugar coat or pretend that the PPK Kurds are like Canadians to us.

They've been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the U.S. for five years.  That makes them allies.  They're not historically allies, but that's partially because we've repeatedly simply hung Kurds out to dry when we've been on the same side of things.

[TripItUp 3,946]

I think I'm with Haley on this...bad move by the President.  

 

That being said, I'm all for us cutting back on the "World Police" policy we've had basically since WW2.   Why are we the sole protector of the Kurds?  

[Kal El 3,691]

52 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Like they would give a crap about a bunch of non white and/or non-Christian people getting slaughtered.  

That's why I put that second, more probable option in.

[HellToupee 15,525]

1 minute ago, TripItUp said:

 

I think I'm with Haley on this...bad move by the President

 

Could be, time will tell. It’s a gamble I don’t mind him taking.

I like it when Donald is bold

[timschochet 33,373]

7 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I think I'm with Haley on this...bad move by the President.  

 

That being said, I'm all for us cutting back on the "World Police" policy we've had basically since WW2.   Why are we the sole protector of the Kurds?  

That’s what we were doing. We were cutting back by using special forces. We’re destroying that strategy. 

[timschochet 33,373]

Russia might as well walk into Ukraine right now. We won’t lift a finger. 

[E Street Brat 1,581]

8 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

They've been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the U.S. for five years.  That makes them allies.  They're not historically allies, but that's partially because we've repeatedly simply hung Kurds out to dry when we've been on the same side of things.

I don't think that is accurate. We've mostly supplied air support and intelligence. We haven't been dug into the same trenches.  That said, it doesn't make it right, but these are not the same as the Iraqi Kurds. They are more like the Afghanistan Mujahideen.  And I think that is important to remember if we're going to be honest. 

 

 

[hammerva 516]

Just now, timschochet said:

Russia might as well walk into Ukraine right now. We won’t lift a finger. 

Unless they lie and say they found NEW DIRT on Biden's son.  We know that kind of bait would work for those dullards

 

[E Street Brat 1,581]

5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That’s what we were doing. We were cutting back by using special forces. We’re destroying that strategy. 

Or the democrats, Gotta burn all that evidence............................  I kid I kid.  sorta

 

 

[E Street Brat 1,581]

17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’m not aware of anyone who demanded Gitmo be closed also demanding that AQ fighters be released. The argument, which I disagreed with, was that they deserved trial and regular imprisonment. 

Do you think our "Loyal Allies" the PPK were holding court and providing legal counsel is ISIS fighters?     Forget it,  Withdrawn  

[HellToupee 15,525]

14 minutes ago, timschochet said:

We’re destroying that strategy. 

It’s an ever evolving strategy, nothing is static

[Henry Ford 60,520]

2 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

I don't think that is accurate. We've mostly supplied air support and intelligence. We haven't been dug into the same trenches.  That said, it doesn't make it right, but these are not the same as the Iraqi Kurds. They are more like the Afghanistan Mujahideen.  And I think that is important to remember if we're going to be honest. 

 

 

"Shoulder to shoulder" was mostly meant as a metaphor, but it's not like our forces haven't spent any time together.  And the Iraqi Kurds you're referring to kind of are the same as the Syrian Kurds.  Kurdistan was an area that now encompasses parts of Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.  These are all the same groups.

[HellToupee 15,525]

13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Russia might as well walk into Ukraine right now. We won’t lift a finger. 

What would you suggest we do, launch an attack??: 

[hammerva 516]

Yeah you are right the Kurds did NOTHING to help us in the war

https://twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182277768819728385

Trump is lucky that unless it is put on their timeline and not muted or blocked already that most Americans are too lazy or willfully blind to fact check his statements.  

[That one guy 2,151]

2 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Yeah you are right the Kurds did NOTHING to help us in the war

https://twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182277768819728385

Trump is lucky that unless it is put on their timeline and not muted or blocked already that most Americans are too lazy or willfully blind to fact check his statements.  

Yeah, but NOT at Normandy!  Great and unmatched wisdom, guy 

[The General 24,239]

49 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

I’ve skipped a few pages here so hopefully it’s already been stated up thread, but seeing the words, allies, friends, and loyal is far from accurate when talking about the Syrian Kurds.

 

The Syrian Kurds here are not really our friends or allies. They are more of an enemy of our enemy.  

I’m no big fan of Turkey here and what they are doing, but let’s not kid ourselves or sugar coat or pretend that the PPK Kurds are like Canadians to us.

They’ll probably really love  us after we bail on them as Trump’s personal favor to Erdogan.

[timschochet 33,373]

3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

What would you suggest we do, launch an attack??: 

I would suggest that the THREAT of force, and a small military presence, is what has protected weaker states like Ukraine, South Korea, and Taiwan from being invaded, and prevented war. I would suggest that if other nations don’t believe the possibility of that threat they will take advantage. This is what Teddy Roosevelt meant by talk softly and carry a big stick. Donald Trump speaks loudly and other nations are starting to realize he will never use the stick at all.