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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds


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38 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

"Shoulder to shoulder" was mostly meant as a metaphor, but it's not like our forces haven't spent any time together.  And the Iraqi Kurds you're referring to kind of are the same as the Syrian Kurds.  Kurdistan was an area that now encompasses parts of Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.  These are all the same groups.

Don't be stubborn. You know what I mean.  The US fought on the same side with Russia because of a common enemy.

 

It's my understanding that Iraqi Kurds and Syrian Kurds  have as much in common as Californian Americans and Mississippi Americans. If I'm incorrect please link me up. I'd love to read more on their history, 

 

 

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It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract. It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interests.

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtfu

Wait 'till the guy on the left hears about the guy on the right.

2 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Don't be stubborn. You know what I mean.  The US fought on the same side with Russia because of a common enemy.

 

It's my understanding that Iraqi Kurds and Syrian Kurds  have as much in common as Californian Americans and Mississippi Americans. If I'm incorrect please link me up. I'd love to read more on their history, 

 

 

We're really talking about Peshmerga in Iraq, the People's Protection Unit  (YPG) in Syria, and the Kurdistan Worker's Party (PKK) in Turkey.  All three groups fought in Iraq with the U.S.

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An IS advance in northern Iraq in June 2014 also drew that country's Kurds into the conflict. The government of Iraq's autonomous Kurdistan Region sent its Peshmerga forces to areas abandoned by the Iraqi army.

In August 2014, the jihadists launched a surprise offensive and the Peshmerga withdrew from several areas. A number of towns inhabited by religious minorities fell, notably Sinjar, where IS militants killed or captured thousands of Yazidis.

In response, a US-led multinational coalition launched air strikes in northern Iraq and sent military advisers to help the Peshmerga. The YPG and the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which has fought for Kurdish autonomy in Turkey for three decades and has bases in Iraq, also came to their aid.

In September 2014, IS launched an assault on the enclave around the northern Syrian Kurdish town of Kobane, forcing tens of thousands of people to flee across the nearby Turkish border. Despite the proximity of the fighting, Turkey refused to attack IS positions or allow Turkish Kurds to cross to defend it.

 

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37 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I would suggest that the THREAT of force, and a small military presence, is what has protected weaker states like Ukraine, South Korea, and Taiwan from being invaded, and prevented war. I would suggest that if other nations don’t believe the possibility of that threat they will take advantage. This is what Teddy Roosevelt meant by talk softly and carry a big stick. Donald Trump speaks loudly and other nations are starting to realize he will never use the stick at all. 

I agree with you here and think Turkey should be removed from NATO

That said, historically speaking have two NATO countries ever fought or stood against each other on the battle field? 

 

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Just now, E Street Brat said:

I agree with you here and think Turkey should be removed from NATO

That said, historically speaking have two NATO countries ever fought or stood against each other on the battle field? 

 

It's a NATO violation to do so.

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4 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

its interesting to see liberals/left leaners greatly desiring war and conflict 

There would not have been a "war" if Trump did not decide to look the other way. Do you think Turkey would have crossed into Syria if the US Troops were still there?

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From Donald

We defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate and no longer have any troops in the area under attack by Turkey, in Syria. We did our job perfectly! Now Turkey is attacking the Kurds, who have been fighting each other for 200 years. We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!

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3 hours ago, E Street Brat said:

I’m also amused by people who demanded Gitmo be closed and AQ fighters be released are now scared of ISIS [aka the JV team] prisons being emptied,

I don't think this was/is accurate.

People wanted prisoners who had no actual charges against them released and prisoners who had a reason to be locked up moved to the proper type of facility.  

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4 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

From Donald

We defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate and no longer have any troops in the area under attack by Turkey, in Syria. We did our job perfectly! Now Turkey is attacking the Kurds, who have been fighting each other for 200 years. We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!

So if I'm understanding this properly, he claims we're done with ISIS(until the Kurds get run off, when who knows), decides to leave said Kurds in the lurch for a distraction tactic to try and take the heat off of his other criminal activity. Now he's threatening military action against Turkey, which wouldn't be necessary if he wasn't burning every last bridge we had, or economic sanctions(so scary), but wait! He wants to help 2 groups who want nothing to do with each other negotiate a deal!

Donald, you don't deserve to be anywhere near a negotiating table. Ever. The sooner you're kicked out of office, the better off we'll be.

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Just now, boots11234 said:

Wow I didn’t realize there were so many hawks on the left. Since when Did they team up with the neocons ?

Keeping a small group of special forces units with the Kurds, preventing them from being invaded, is not a hawkish position. HTH

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I would suggest that the THREAT of force, and a small military presence, is what has protected weaker states like Ukraine, South Korea, and Taiwan from being invaded, and prevented war. I would suggest that if other nations don’t believe the possibility of that threat they will take advantage. This is what Teddy Roosevelt meant by talk softly and carry a big stick. Donald Trump speaks loudly and other nations are starting to realize he will never use the stick at all. 

And what if they are attacked?  Are you willing to risk a war, lose American lives over Ukraine or Syria???  That’s crazy talk right there. 

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Here is what I don't understand.

The US is supposed to be the biggest, baddest military threat on the planet.  We used to carry a lot of weight all over the world.

Turkey is an ostensible ally - via NATO

Syrian Kurds are an ostensible ally - via fight against ISIS

 

Are you telling me - that the US could not have gone to both parties - and ironed out a solution to whatever is ailing them?  How hard is it to go to Turkey - and say: "What is your real concern her with the Syrian Kurds?  How can we help you with that concern?"

And, then go to our partners, the Kurds, and say: "What is your issue with Turkey?  How can we help you resolve that without the need for bloodshed?"

 

We OUGHT to be able to hold enough power over both parties to keep them away from each other, while a longer-term diplomatic solution was reached.  But, I get the sense, that we never tried diplomacy, and just kind of threw our hands up in the air, and said: " :shrug: Not our fight!"   

For the Trump supporters out there - Where is US leadership in a time like this?  We should be taking control of the situation, not walking away.  Leaders don't shirk responsibilities when things get tough.

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11 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Here is what I don't understand.

The US is supposed to be the biggest, baddest military threat on the planet.  We used to carry a lot of weight all over the world.

Turkey is an ostensible ally - via NATO

Syrian Kurds are an ostensible ally - via fight against ISIS

 

Are you telling me - that the US could not have gone to both parties - and ironed out a solution to whatever is ailing them?  How hard is it to go to Turkey - and say: "What is your real concern her with the Syrian Kurds?  How can we help you with that concern?"

And, then go to our partners, the Kurds, and say: "What is your issue with Turkey?  How can we help you resolve that without the need for bloodshed?"

 

We OUGHT to be able to hold enough power over both parties to keep them away from each other, while a longer-term diplomatic solution was reached.  But, I get the sense, that we never tried diplomacy, and just kind of threw our hands up in the air, and said: " :shrug: Not our fight!"   

For the Trump supporters out there - Where is US leadership in a time like this?  We should be taking control of the situation, not walking away.  Leaders don't shirk responsibilities when things get tough.

US Middle Eastern policy has been bad for decades. The administration didn't matter, they kept screwing it up in some way. I do know that Turkey has major issues with the Kurds due to land, which the Turks have and the Kurds want. 

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6 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

its interesting to see liberals/left leaners greatly desiring war and conflict 

While there was intermittent "conflict," there was no "war" ongoing. As many have pointed out, there were hardly any US casualties in northern Syria in the last 5 years. It was quiet because we were there. 

But please feel free go back to your nonsense.

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2 hours ago, boots11234 said:

Wow I didn’t realize there were so many hawks on the left. Since when Did they team up with the neocons ?

This is new talking point.  Congrats on being on the distribution list.

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2 hours ago, HellToupee said:

From Donald

We defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate and no longer have any troops in the area under attack by Turkey, in Syria. We did our job perfectly! Now Turkey is attacking the Kurds, who have been fighting each other for 200 years. We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!

If we wouldn’t have left they wouldn’t be attacking them.

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2 hours ago, boots11234 said:

Wow I didn’t realize there were so many hawks on the left. Since when Did they team up with the neocons ?

The idea of walking out on the people who helped us “defeat ISIS” is pretty pathetic to me.

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8 minutes ago, The General said:

The idea of walking out on the people who helped us “defeat ISIS” is pretty pathetic to me.

Not to mention those same allies also face danger from wherever they live, since they don't actually have their own land, and nobody is willing to give them any. Of course, Trump supporters will gloss that over and accuse everybody of being hawkish, because to do otherwise means coming to grips with the fact that Trump betrayed the Kurds, and left them to die.

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6 hours ago, HellToupee said:

Donald’s Facebook message 👍
 

Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.

Seems like he just heated one up by removing our support of the Kurds. He can't even get that right. Pathetic.

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4 hours ago, urbanhack said:

I don't think this was/is accurate.

People wanted prisoners who had no actual charges against them released and prisoners who had a reason to be locked up moved to the proper type of facility.  

Yeah, I worded that wrong. I didn't mean released back into the wild. 

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Nope...and someone already took the lame sheriff schtick too.  

Ok Sheriff. Whatever you say. I don’t want to be reported. I’m pretty sure you’re the reason I’ve had a couple of timeouts. 

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22 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Ok Sheriff. Whatever you say. I don’t want to be reported. I’m pretty sure you’re the reason I’ve had a couple of timeouts. 

You have to accept the fact that almost half these cats report anything and everything 

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29 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Ok Sheriff. Whatever you say. I don’t want to be reported. I’m pretty sure you’re the reason I’ve had a couple of timeouts. 

Probably had to do with something you posted...but think what you want.

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54 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

You have to accept the fact that almost half these cats report anything and everything 

You have my word that I will never report you. I will tell you to your face what I think of you. And after seeing your posts lately, it's not much.

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Posted this in the Syria thread.  Kind of wish we'd just stuck with the place we've been discussing Syria for the past 6 years.  It's not hard to figure out that a thread title was written 6 years ago by a user that is no longer active.

Anyway, someone asked for my thoughts on this, so I'll post them here as well:

On 10/9/2019 at 6:57 PM, ren hoek said:

Though I'm not very familiar with the history of the Kurds, I think it's horrible.  I think they need to work out a deal with the Syrians.  I think Trump is selling it as a peaceful withdrawal of American forces, when in reality he is ceding control to genocidal NATO ally Turkey, who probably support the same objectives for a pipeline through Syria.  Trump does this rhetoric from time to time and routinely betrays it with his actions. 

The abrupt departure seems to indicate he wanted Turkey to have an advantage and Syria/Kurds to be caught flat-footed.  I still support US withdrawal, but it doesn't look like it was done on equitable terms (assuming it's being done at all).  What's worse, Turkey has been linked to the jihadist 'ratlines' around Idlib that have attempted to overthrow the Assad govt and install an Islamic caliphate.  This is who NATO is.  

Less surprising, however, is the fact that using Kurdish liberation as an excuse for US participation in wars in the middle east- playing both sides whenever it served our interest- has been a running thread for a long time now.  

 

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40 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Causing your own troops to get bombed because you let Turkey murder the allies who defeated ISIS is _________________?

Totally predictable considering who the Commander-in-Chief is.

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