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QB Tua Tagovailoa, MIA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Long Ball Larry
- Start date
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Means nothing IMO since he did this 100 times before then played Fitz anyway...
Any Tua trades in dynasty lately? Curious as to his value in start 1 QB
Any Tua trades in dynasty lately? Curious as to his value in start 1 QB
Faust
MVP
Silver & Black
Footballguy
If Miami lands either Pitts or Chase, do we think Tua can be a #1 fantasy QB this year?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Can? Sure. Am I betting on it? No. He'll be a guy to consider in deep enough 1 qb leagues around qb20.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Tua looks like a good game manager so far. He could take a big step this season but I wouldn’t take that gamble in FF.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He was rehabbing a serious injury amidst covid until November. I seem to be the minority, but my expectations for what he did in part of 2020 were quite low. 2021 was always going to tell his story.
rockaction
Footballguy
Did not look the part and then what Mac Jones did with 'Bama the past year really calls into question Tua's proficiency. But yeah, he deserves the year to show what he can do. I wonder if they're going to be doing voluntary workouts in Miami. I think the whole no camp thing has really exacerbated some rookie issues that guys are having. Or, given my FF draft last year, I'd like to think that, anyway.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If Fuller is as good a fit as I think he'll be there, I'd give him a shot at cracking the top 12, but I agree with you here.
rockaction
Footballguy
You'd better hope that Tua finds an arm in the off-season, otherwise Fuller doesn't sniff the top 12, and probably struggles to make the top 24.
jtd13
Footballguy
I keep seeing this mentioned. As a fins fan who watched every game of Tua's, arm strength ain't even close to a concern for me.
rockaction
Footballguy
jtd13
Footballguy
Just adding my inputOkay.
.I just don't really know where that comes from. His issue last year was being overly cautious. Partly understandable given his WRs were terrible and he's used to having 4 1st round WRs get separation with ease. He's gotta get over that is he's going to succeed.
But he showed the ability to make plenty of throws last year. Just didn't do it enough.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, that wasn't snark. I just didn't know really what to say to it. That was a genuine response. Oh, okay. I watched about three or four games and it looked like he was struggling to make crisp throws downfield. I have questions. Perhaps I'm really wrong. We'll see.Just adding my input
I just don't really know where that comes from. His issue last year was being overly cautious. Partly understandable given his WRs were terrible and he's used to having 4 1st round WRs get separation with ease. He's gotta get over that is he's going to succeed.
But he showed the ability to make plenty of throws last year. Just didn't do it enough.
jm192
Footballguy
I think he was figuring out post-hip life and NFL life all at the same time.
I'm assuming his foot work wasn't where he wanted it, he probably wasn't confidently planting, etc. I didn't watch a ton of his season, so someone feel free to chime in if I'm wrong in my thinking.
But I thought he would be a stud coming in. I'm iffy on the Dolphins as an organization, but their past couple of off-seasons have been strong. I think they'll put the pieces around him to help him succeed.
I've got him in a couple of dynasty leagues and I'm hopefully optomistic on him. That being said, I'm definitely planning to add one of the rookie QB's in this year's class as well as insurance against him busting. (I don't think I'm getting much more milage out of Matt Ryan at this point).
Redraft, he's a cool/upside backup. I'll be eager to see reports of how he's doing in OTA's, camp, etc.
jtd13
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, it can be taken that way. My apologies if you took it that way. It was really a way of saying "what the heck do I say to a guy that watched every game last year and is usually on top of it?" I'm usually snark-free in the Shark Pool. I'm trying too hard to suss everything out to worry about looking authoritatively cool.My bad. Shrugging ball guy usually reads as snark to me
Though every so often...
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jtd13
Footballguy
Hey thanks for the complement! I'll try to remember to lower my snark radar on your posts
And I'll also readily admit watching the games doesn't make me an expert. I'm also a fan and want him to succeed, so I may have a blind spot. I just thought he had some really nice games against Arizona, Cincy, and KC, and against Arizona in particular he made a couple throws that I thought Fitzmagic wouldn't make. I got frustrated because he wouldn't take shots like Fitzmagic would. Maybe that was lack of confidence in the hip, maybe being used to guys being more open.
He did end the season with a couple nationally televised stinkers, especially against Buffalo. So I understand if those games stick in a lot of people's minds.
Tua has decent velocity on his passes and can zip it into tight windows. But I don't think he can wing it 50+ yards like Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and many NFL QBs can. It was one of the only knocks on him coming out of college. It could be an issue with a speedster like Fuller. A bigger issue was not doing as well as Fitzpatrick who had the same bad oline and receivers with little separation, maybe due to hesitancy to make an INT. I think many people are underestimating how well Fitzpatrick has played the last 3 years.
Upon reviewing Tua's highlights, I'm cautiously optimistic:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tua+dolphins+highlights&oq=tua&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j46i433j69i60l2.1958j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Upon reviewing Tua's highlights, I'm cautiously optimistic:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tua+dolphins+highlights&oq=tua&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j46i433j69i60l2.1958j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
rockaction
Footballguy
Skeptical cautiomism.
That's what I've got after watching those highlights.
That's what I've got after watching those highlights.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This is true. Still don’t think I’m drafting Tua as a QB1 which was the original question.
jtd13
Footballguy
Interesting that you mention Watson, since he was dinged for arm strength coming in. I thought Watson was more of an "accurate downfield, but doesn't have a cannon" type thrower. I've seen him turn would-be TDs to Fuller into long gains a few times, though it seemed like he improved on that last year.
I agree that Tua won't ever be in Mahomes or Allen's area code for arm strength though.
In the AFC East, Tua will have the weakest arm of the starting QBs. Hopefully, he'll be elite in decision making and accuracy and pocket presence. Chris Simms had Tua ranked below Burrows and Herbert in the 2020 draft. For 2021, he has Wilson and Lawrence ranked #1 and #2, and he compares Wilson to Mahomes and Rogers. Miami needs to load up on defense.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ve never seen Tua’s arm strength as a concern. He showed plenty of arm in college. No idea what you mean by this.rockaction said:
jtd13
Footballguy
Simms looks at film and sees yards left on the field by Harris. Simms likes explosive big play ability, and that's not Harris. Harris has soft hands, but is not necessarily a good route runner. It's hard to evaluate RBs at Alabama due to the elite talent on the oline and everywhere. But Simms is wrong about Hawkins over Harris.
Simms knows QBs and he was one of the few who had Herbert over Tua in the 2020 draft.
From PFF in 2020:
>>ARM STRENGTH
This is the one trait that will get picked apart by evaluators all spring. Tagovailoa’s arm strength is on the low end for NFL standards and can only get worse with his hip injury robbing him of some torque in his lower half. He’s had one pass his entire college career travel 50-plus yards downfield. That throw, shown below, was an interception against LSU in 2018 and looked as if it was everything Tagovailoa had in the tank. <<
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-tua-tagovailoa-is-every-bit-a-franchise-qb-prospect
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
So you don’t think he’ll be able to get the ball downfield to Fuller?
I dunno about this throw, but I’ve seen him throw the ball - he seemed to be able to do it.
I think Tua has velocity and arm strength and accuracy for throws up to 40 yards. I'm not so sure about 50+ yards, which could limit Fuller's game. I'm not sure Tua can make this throw, a 59-yard TD on a pass that travelled 60 yards in the air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La1JDSGPnYw
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not sure he’ll have to. lol
40 yards is plenty. And if Fuller is open, I’m pretty sure he can throw it 50 as well. It doesn’t have to be a dime.
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rockaction
Footballguy
If he only threw one in college downfield over fifty yards and the knock on him per PFF is arm strength, what's that tell you? That's a fairly large sample size there. I don't think it was an accident I brought it up. Others seem to have brought it up, too. He did not look particularly strong-armed last year. In fact, I distinctly remember thinking he had a definitely weak arm for a pro. I wasn't just pulling that comment out of my ###, is all I'm saying. Whether that was a function of his injury, I don't know. Perhaps he comes out and Daryle Lamonica's the heck out of the ball.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He spent November 2019-October 2020 rehabbing an injury that usually only happens in a bad car accident. He didn't spend it on the practice field. Working with his teammates. Refining his technique. Increasing strength. Etc. He spent that time just getting functional enough to get on the field. Rookies always start playing from behind, but especially in a covid offseason and especially when they are already recovering from such a serious injury.
Any criticisms about him before 2020 are fair. Any criticisms about him going forward are too. Those critiquing what they saw in 2020 are making a mistake.
jtd13
Footballguy
The info about 50 yard passes in college is interesting, and it was pre-injury. I have no idea how to contextualize that, though. Is 50 yards an important cutoff?
What I meant by no concerns about his arm are I saw him make throws with proper zip and touch in a 25-30 yard range. He seemed to have good accuracy and seemed able to ability to stick it in spots pretty well in that range. Can't say I saw him attempt many bombs, so maybe his deep ball is limited.
The arm strength didn't seem like something that was going to limit the offense. A contrast to that would be watching someone like Chad Pennington post-shoulder surgery, where teams knew they pretty much didn't have to worry about anything more than 20 yards downfield, and it just capped the whole offense. That's more what I picture when I hear arm strength is a concern. (Coincidentally/sadly, Pennington might be the best starting QB for Miami since Marino, in contention with Fitzpatrick and Tannehill).
What I meant by no concerns about his arm are I saw him make throws with proper zip and touch in a 25-30 yard range. He seemed to have good accuracy and seemed able to ability to stick it in spots pretty well in that range. Can't say I saw him attempt many bombs, so maybe his deep ball is limited.
The arm strength didn't seem like something that was going to limit the offense. A contrast to that would be watching someone like Chad Pennington post-shoulder surgery, where teams knew they pretty much didn't have to worry about anything more than 20 yards downfield, and it just capped the whole offense. That's more what I picture when I hear arm strength is a concern. (Coincidentally/sadly, Pennington might be the best starting QB for Miami since Marino, in contention with Fitzpatrick and Tannehill).
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks to the above responses by MAC and jtd, and the Chad Pennington thing was awful to watch as a fun.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I wish more folks would incorporate this logic in their thoughts and observations. It's hard to give Miami a lot of credit but at the same time I can tell you as a Phinsfan that things feel different since Flores arrived and brought his exotic defense and scheme with him. This place is run a little more buttoned up, everyone is wearing caps and sleeves finally.
Things that might not appear on the surface but Miami is getting incredibly tough in the middle of their defense making it harder and harder for teams to run the ball effectively and consistently, that forces balls into the air and plays into their Secondary which is going to be full of playmakers and that leads to more turnovers and shorter fields and Tua has more weapons to throw to this year.
I can see him hitting Top 20 if he starts all 17 weeks and doesn't get himself injured and shows a lot of progress. I believe the trio of Fuller-Parker-Waddle could be deadly. Fuller will go deep a lot and draw coverage, Tua does not have to hit him all the time on these throws, the defense has to account for him though, that is going to leave Parker and Gesicki to tear up the underneath routes and then you have Waddle running something in the shorter variety that he can grab and take off, break a tackle or just flat out run and bust off a chunk of yards even if they don't end in TDs all the time. All these things will add to Tua being successful but I want to stress that many of us have our doubts based on his pure talent to play QB, we haven't seen that yet. Seems like he is going to need an awful lot of help to be successful.
We didn't see Russell Wilson in Year 1 or nothing. Lot of questions and maybe some of us think Miami should have been taking Trey Lance and grooming 2 QBs to play in the NFL or maybe Justin Fields, there was lots to choose from with a godsend No 3 pick in hand but they figured out a way to wiggle a WR out of it, hope he works out well, have my doubts.
I don't give Miami a lot of credit at all, I agree with you.
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