Dynasty and Redraft: QB Tua Tagovailoa, Miami Dolphins

[Faust]

No. 3 pick will reveal how committed Dolphins are to Tua Tagovailoa

[Faust]

Quote

Speaking Tuesday, Dolphins GM Chris Grier committed to Tua Tagovailoa as the team's starting quarterback moving forward. 

Grier added the usual caveats: We will add competition at every position, can't rule out drafting a quarterback, etc., but it is unsurprising to hear. Even with the Texans' No. 3 overall pick, Tagovailoa did not play poorly enough as a rookie for the Dolphins to go the Josh Rosen or Dwayne Haskins route. Playing with a limited supporting cast, Tagovailoa certainly did not light up the stat sheet, but he largely avoided turnovers while hinting at play-making ability. There's no guarantee he is the long-sought answer in Miami, but his rookie year was ultimately a normal one. 

SOURCE: Barry Jackson on Twitter 

Jan 5, 2021, 3:07 PM ET

 

[Faust]

 

Quote

Dolphins coach Brian Flores issued another vote of confidence in QB Tua Tagovailoa on Thursday. 

"A lot of attention gets paid to Tua, but I thought he made a lot of improvement over the course of the season," Flores said, not unreasonably. "I'm excited about the future with him. He's a young player, talented player, bounced back from the hip. I think this is a big offseason for him. That Year 1 to Year 2 jump will be important like it is for all rookies." The Dolphins selecting another quarterback at No. 3 overall with the Texans' pick will be a popular offseason meme, but it's not going to happen. This is the same Dolphins brain trust that selected Tagovailoa, and the Twitter complaints about his play never quite matched reality. The Dolphins have two great non-quarterback options at No. 3, either landing a premium talent or trading down and accumulating more picks as they get close to completing their rebuild. 

SOURCE: ESPN

Jan 14, 2021, 6:34 PM ET

 

 

[Helaire-ious]

12 hours ago, Faust said:

 

 

Means nothing IMO since he did this 100 times before then played Fitz anyway...

Any Tua trades in dynasty lately? Curious as to his value in start 1 QB

[Faust]

 

Quote

Tua Tagovailoa said his rookie season was "below average." 

"This past season wasn't up to my expectation that I have for myself," said Tua, who posted a lowly 6.3 yards per attempt and threw 11 touchdowns in nine starts while being benched several times for Ryan Fitzpatrick. "But there were a lot of things that I was able to learn from. Being able to look at the defenses and how different all of the schemes are with defensive coordinators. ... Hopefully I can compartmentalize everything and have a much better season next year." It's a refreshingly honest assessment from Tua following a gutting end to Miami's 2020 season. Dolphins officials, including head coach Brian Flores, have given Tua votes of confidence in recent weeks, and the team brought in Tua confidant Charlie Frye as their new QB coach. There remains a chance the team will vie for Deshaun Watson's services depending on the Texans' trade demands, but for now, Tua looks to enter 2021 as Miami's unquestioned starter. Fitzpatrick is an unrestricted free agent. 

RELATED: 

Deshaun Watson

, Ryan Fitzpatrick

SOURCE: Palm Beach Post 

Feb 1, 2021, 10:29 AM ET

 

 

[IHEARTFF]

I think you give a guy with Tua's talent a 2nd year for sure. If he busts in year 2, then you can move on.

[Ministry of Pain]

Tua unsure of his future with the Dolphins

[Faust]

Tua Tagovailoa confident he's Dolphins' franchise QB, focusing on making 'jump' in Year 2

[Faust]

Miami Dolphins Must Build Around Tua Tagovailoa in 2021 Free Agency, NFL Draft

[Faust]

Brian Flores on Dolphins' QB situation: 'I'm excited to work with Tua'

[Faust]

What do the Dolphins have in Tua Tagovailoa? Kurt Warner breaks down the film

[Faust]

ESPN analyst slams narratives surrounding Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa

[Faust]

WATCH: NFL analyst strongly defends Tua Tagovailoa amid offseason criticism

[Faust]

Fantasy Fallout: Jalen Hurts, Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Fields see values rise after 49ers, Eagles and Dolphins trade first-round picks

Excerpt:

Quote

TUA TAGOVAILOA, MIAMI DOLPHINS

Tua Tagovailoa will enter the 2021 season as one of my favorite late-round quarterbacks. I already declared him a massive winner in dynasty formats post-free agency, but his outlook continues to look even better after this trade. 

The Dolphins have so much draft capital (four top-50 picks in 2021) to continue to build around their second-year quarterback, guaranteeing that his supporting cast is vastly superior to the unit he played with a season ago. 

With the No. 6 overall pick, they'll have the chance to draft an offensive playmaker like Kyle Pitts/Ja’Marr Chase or provide Tagovailoa the protection he needs in the form of tackle Penei Sewell.

Either way, Tua’s current best ball ADP on Underdog as the QB21 is way too low considering the upside he could deliver in 2021 with upgraded personnel. He was the QB22 in terms of fantasy points per game last season (16.0), so he’s being priced at his floor. 

Let’s also not forget that before things got out of hand for Tua in Week 17 last season, he was the only QB in the league to have at least 10 touchdown passes and zero interceptions from a clean pocket. Clean pocket numbers tend to be stickier year over year than under-pressure numbers, so that’s a great sign for the Dolphins and Tagovailoa as he enters Year 2. 

 

 

[Faust]

Trust in Tua

[Silver & Black]

If Miami lands either Pitts or Chase, do we think Tua can be a #1 fantasy QB this year?

[MAC_32]

16 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

If Miami lands either Pitts or Chase, do we think Tua can be a #1 fantasy QB this year?

Can? Sure. Am I betting on it? No. He'll be a guy to consider in deep enough 1 qb leagues around qb20.

[DocHolliday]

17 hours ago, Silver & Black said:

If Miami lands either Pitts or Chase, do we think Tua can be a #1 fantasy QB this year?

Tua looks like a good game manager so far.  He could take a big step this season but I wouldn’t take that gamble in FF.  

[MAC_32]

11 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Tua looks like a good game manager so far.  He could take a big step this season but I wouldn’t take that gamble in FF.  

He was rehabbing a serious injury amidst covid until November. I seem to be the minority, but my expectations for what he did in part of 2020 were quite low. 2021 was always going to tell his story. 

[rockaction]

16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

He was rehabbing a serious injury amidst covid until November. I seem to be the minority, but my expectations for what he did in part of 2020 were quite low. 2021 was always going to tell his story. 

Did not look the part and then what Mac Jones did with 'Bama the past year really calls into question Tua's proficiency. But yeah, he deserves the year to show what he can do. I wonder if they're going to be doing voluntary workouts in Miami. I think the whole no camp thing has really exacerbated some rookie issues that guys are having. Or, given my FF draft last year, I'd like to think that, anyway.

[Hot Sauce Guy]

3 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Can? Sure. Am I betting on it? No. He'll be a guy to consider in deep enough 1 qb leagues around qb20.

If Fuller is as good a fit as I think he'll be there, I'd give him a shot at cracking the top 12, but I agree with you here. 

[rockaction]

1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

If Fuller is as good a fit as I think he'll be there, I'd give him a shot at cracking the top 12, but I agree with you here. 

You'd better hope that Tua finds an arm in the off-season, otherwise Fuller doesn't sniff the top 12, and probably struggles to make the top 24.

[jtd13]

1 hour ago, rockaction said:

You'd better hope that Tua finds an arm in the off-season, otherwise Fuller doesn't sniff the top 12, and probably struggles to make the top 24.

I keep seeing this mentioned. As a fins fan who watched every game of Tua's, arm strength ain't even close to a concern for me. 

[rockaction]

Just now, jtd13 said:

I keep seeing this mentioned. As a fins fan who watched every game of Tua's, arm strength ain't even close to a concern for me. 

Okay.

[jtd13]

Just now, rockaction said:

Okay.

Just adding my input.

I just don't really know where that comes from. His issue last year was being overly cautious. Partly understandable given his WRs were terrible and he's used to having 4 1st round WRs get separation with ease. He's gotta get over that is he's going to succeed. 

But he showed the ability to make plenty of throws last year. Just didn't do it enough. 

[rockaction]

Just now, jtd13 said:

Just adding my input.

I just don't really know where that comes from. His issue last year was being overly cautious. Partly understandable given his WRs were terrible and he's used to having 4 1st round WRs get separation with ease. He's gotta get over that is he's going to succeed. 

But he showed the ability to make plenty of throws last year. Just didn't do it enough. 

Yeah, that wasn't snark. I just didn't know really what to say to it. That was a genuine response. Oh, okay. I watched about three or four games and it looked like he was struggling to make crisp throws downfield. I have questions. Perhaps I'm really wrong. We'll see.

[jm192]

Just now, rockaction said:

Yeah, that wasn't snark. I just didn't know really what to say to it. That was a genuine response. Oh, okay. I watched about three or four games and it looked like he was struggling to make crisp throws downfield. I have questions. Perhaps I'm really wrong. We'll see.

I think he was figuring out post-hip life and NFL life all at the same time.  

I'm assuming his foot work wasn't where he wanted it, he probably wasn't confidently planting, etc.  I didn't watch a ton of his season, so someone feel free to chime in if I'm wrong in my thinking.  

But I thought he would be a stud coming in.  I'm iffy on the Dolphins as an organization, but their past couple of off-seasons have been strong.  I think they'll put the pieces around him to help him succeed.  

I've got him in a couple of dynasty leagues and I'm hopefully optomistic on him.  That being said, I'm definitely planning to add one of the rookie QB's in this year's class as well as insurance against him busting.  (I don't think I'm getting much more milage out of Matt Ryan at this point).

Redraft, he's a cool/upside backup.  I'll be eager to see reports of how he's doing in OTA's, camp, etc.  

[jtd13]

4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, that wasn't snark. I just didn't know really what to say to it. That was a genuine response. Oh, okay. I watched about three or four games and it looked like he was struggling to make crisp throws downfield. I have questions. Perhaps I'm really wrong. We'll see.

My bad. Shrugging ball guy usually reads as snark to me 😬

[rockaction]

2 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

My bad. Shrugging ball guy usually reads as snark to me 😬

Yeah, it can be taken that way. My apologies if you took it that way. It was really a way of saying "what the heck do I say to a guy that watched every game last year and is usually on top of it?" I'm usually snark-free in the Shark Pool. I'm trying too hard to suss everything out to worry about looking authoritatively cool.

Though every so often...

Edited April 18 by rockaction

[jtd13]

5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, it can be taken that way. My apologies if you took it that way. It was really a way of saying "what the heck do I say to a guy that watched every game last year and is usually on top of it?" I'm usually snark-free in the Shark Pool. I'm trying too hard to suss everything out to worry about looking authoritatively cool.

Though every so often...

Hey thanks for the complement! I'll try to remember to lower my snark radar on your posts 😅

And I'll also readily admit watching the games doesn't make me an expert. I'm also a fan and want him to succeed, so I may have a blind spot. I just thought he had some really nice games against Arizona, Cincy, and KC, and against Arizona in particular he made a couple throws that I thought Fitzmagic wouldn't make. I got frustrated because he wouldn't take shots like Fitzmagic would. Maybe that was lack of confidence in the hip, maybe being used to guys being more open.

He did end the season with a couple nationally televised stinkers, especially against Buffalo. So I understand if those games stick in a lot of people's minds. 

[SoBeDad]

Tua has decent velocity on his passes and can zip it into tight windows. But I don't think he can wing it 50+ yards like Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and many NFL QBs can. It was one of the only knocks on him coming out of college. It could be an issue with a speedster like Fuller. A bigger issue was not doing as well as Fitzpatrick who had the same bad oline and receivers with little separation, maybe due to hesitancy to make an INT. I think many people are underestimating how well Fitzpatrick has played the last 3 years. 

Upon reviewing Tua's highlights, I'm cautiously optimistic:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tua+dolphins+highlights&oq=tua&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j46i433j69i60l2.1958j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[rockaction]

Skeptical cautiomism.

That's what I've got after watching those highlights.

[DocHolliday]

3 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

He was rehabbing a serious injury amidst covid until November. I seem to be the minority, but my expectations for what he did in part of 2020 were quite low. 2021 was always going to tell his story. 

This is true.  Still don’t think I’m drafting Tua as a QB1 which was the original question.  

[jtd13]

2 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Tua has decent velocity on his passes and can zip it into tight windows. But I don't think he can wing it 50+ yards like Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert and many NFL QBs can. It was one of the only knocks on him coming out of college. It could be an issue with a speedster like Fuller. A bigger issue was not doing as well as Fitzpatrick who had the same bad oline and receivers with little separation, maybe due to hesitancy to make an INT. I think many people are underestimating how well Fitzpatrick has played the last 3 years. 

Upon reviewing Tua's highlights, I'm cautiously optimistic:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tua+dolphins+highlights&oq=tua&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j46i433j69i60l2.1958j0j7&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Interesting that you mention Watson, since he was dinged for arm strength coming in. I thought Watson was more of an "accurate downfield, but doesn't have a cannon" type thrower. I've seen him turn would-be TDs to Fuller into long gains a few times, though it seemed like he improved on that last year. 

I agree that Tua won't ever be in Mahomes or Allen's area code for arm strength though. 

[SoBeDad]

In the AFC East, Tua will have the weakest arm of the starting QBs. Hopefully, he'll be elite in decision making and accuracy and pocket presence. Chris Simms had Tua ranked below Burrows and Herbert in the 2020 draft. For 2021, he has Wilson and Lawrence ranked #1 and #2, and he compares Wilson to Mahomes and Rogers. Miami needs to load up on defense. 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

4 hours ago, rockaction said:

You'd better hope that Tua finds an arm in the off-season, otherwise Fuller doesn't sniff the top 12, and probably struggles to make the top 24.

I’ve never seen Tua’s arm strength as a concern. He showed plenty of arm in college. No idea what you mean by this. 

[JohnnyU]

Puzzles me how anyone can pass judgment on Tua at this point.  Talk to me in another year.

[need2know]

2 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

In the AFC East, Tua will have the weakest arm of the starting QBs. Hopefully, he'll be elite in decision making and accuracy and pocket presence. Chris Simms had Tua ranked below Burrows and Herbert in the 2020 draft. For 2021, he has Wilson and Lawrence ranked #1 and #2, and he compares Wilson to Mahomes and Rogers. Miami needs to load up on defense. 

Chris simms is a boob

[jtd13]

Just now, need2know said:

Chris simms is a boob

Right. Doesn't he have Javien Hawkins over Najee Harris? 

[SoBeDad]

44 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

Right. Doesn't he have Javien Hawkins over Najee Harris? 

Simms looks at film and sees yards left on the field by Harris. Simms likes explosive big play ability, and that's not Harris. Harris has soft hands, but is not necessarily a good route runner. It's hard to evaluate RBs at Alabama due to the elite talent on the oline and everywhere. But Simms is wrong about Hawkins over Harris.

Simms knows QBs and he was one of the few who had Herbert over Tua in the 2020 draft.

[SoBeDad]

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’ve never seen Tua’s arm strength as a concern. He showed plenty of arm in college. No idea what you mean by this. 

From PFF in 2020:

>>ARM STRENGTH

This is the one trait that will get picked apart by evaluators all spring. Tagovailoa’s arm strength is on the low end for NFL standards and can only get worse with his hip injury robbing him of some torque in his lower half. He’s had one pass his entire college career travel 50-plus yards downfield. That throw, shown below, was an interception against LSU in 2018 and looked as if it was everything Tagovailoa had in the tank. <<

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-tua-tagovailoa-is-every-bit-a-franchise-qb-prospect

Edited April 18 by SoBeDad

[MAC_32]

8 hours ago, rockaction said:

You'd better hope that Tua finds an arm in the off-season, otherwise Fuller doesn't sniff the top 12, and probably struggles to make the top 24.

Again, he was rehabbing a serious injury. He doesn't win because of his arm, but healthy it's strong enough. He wasn't in 2020. 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

2 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

From PFF in 2020:

>>ARM STRENGTH

This is the one trait that will get picked apart by evaluators all spring. Tagovailoa’s arm strength is on the low end for NFL standards and can only get worse with his hip injury robbing him of some torque in his lower half. He’s had one pass his entire college career travel 50-plus yards downfield. That throw, shown below, was an interception against LSU in 2018 and looked as if it was everything Tagovailoa had in the tank. <<

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-tua-tagovailoa-is-every-bit-a-franchise-qb-prospect

So you don’t think he’ll be able to get the ball downfield to Fuller? 
 

I dunno about this throw, but I’ve seen him throw the ball - he seemed to be able to do it. 

[SoBeDad]

2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So you don’t think he’ll be able to get the ball downfield to Fuller? 
 

I dunno about this throw, but I’ve seen him throw the ball - he seemed to be able to do it. 

I think Tua has velocity and arm strength and accuracy for throws up to 40 yards. I'm not so sure about 50+ yards, which could limit Fuller's game. I'm not sure Tua can make this throw, a 59-yard TD on a pass that travelled 60 yards in the air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La1JDSGPnYw

[Hot Sauce Guy]

1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

I think Tua has velocity and arm strength and accuracy for throws up to 40 yards. I'm not so sure about 50+ yards, which could limit Fuller's game. I'm not sure Tua can make this throw, a 59-yard TD on a pass that travelled 60 yards in the air: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La1JDSGPnYw

I’m not sure he’ll have to. lol

40 yards is plenty. And if Fuller is open, I’m pretty sure he can throw it 50 as well. It doesn’t have to be a dime. 

Edited April 19 by Hot Sauce Guy

[rockaction]

13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m not sure he’ll have to. lol

40 yards is plenty. And if Fuller is open, I’m pretty sure he can throw it 50 as well. It doesn’t have to be a dime. 

If he only threw one in college downfield over fifty yards and the knock on him per PFF is arm strength, what's that tell you? That's a fairly large sample size there. I don't think it was an accident I brought it up. Others seem to have brought it up, too. He did not look particularly strong-armed last year. In fact, I distinctly remember thinking he had a definitely weak arm for a pro. I wasn't just pulling that comment out of my ###, is all I'm saying. Whether that was a function of his injury, I don't know. Perhaps he comes out and Daryle Lamonica's the heck out of the ball.

[MAC_32]

7 hours ago, rockaction said:

If he only threw one in college downfield over fifty yards and the knock on him per PFF is arm strength, what's that tell you? That's a fairly large sample size there. I don't think it was an accident I brought it up. Others seem to have brought it up, too. He did not look particularly strong-armed last year. In fact, I distinctly remember thinking he had a definitely weak arm for a pro. I wasn't just pulling that comment out of my ###, is all I'm saying. Whether that was a function of his injury, I don't know. Perhaps he comes out and Daryle Lamonica's the heck out of the ball.

He spent November 2019-October 2020 rehabbing an injury that usually only happens in a bad car accident. He didn't spend it on the practice field. Working with his teammates. Refining his technique. Increasing strength. Etc. He spent that time just getting functional enough to get on the field. Rookies always start playing from behind, but especially in a covid offseason and especially when they are already recovering from such a serious injury. 

Any criticisms about him before 2020 are fair. Any criticisms about him going forward are too. Those critiquing what they saw in 2020 are making a mistake.

[jtd13]

The info about 50 yard passes in college is interesting, and it was pre-injury. I have no idea how to contextualize that, though. Is 50 yards an important cutoff? 

What I meant by no concerns about his arm are I saw him make throws with proper zip and touch in a 25-30 yard range. He seemed to have good accuracy and seemed able to ability to stick it in spots pretty well in that range. Can't say I saw him attempt many bombs, so maybe his deep ball is limited. 

The arm strength didn't seem like something that was going to limit the offense. A contrast to that would be watching someone like Chad Pennington post-shoulder surgery, where teams knew they pretty much didn't have to worry about anything more than 20 yards downfield, and it just capped the whole offense. That's more what I picture when I hear arm strength is a concern.  (Coincidentally/sadly, Pennington might be the best starting QB for Miami since Marino, in contention with Fitzpatrick and Tannehill). 

[rockaction]

Thanks to the above responses by MAC and jtd, and the Chad Pennington thing was awful to watch as a fun.

[zeeshan2]

19 hours ago, need2know said:

Chris simms is a boob

Sure, but for the most part, his QB rankings are spot on