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QB Tua Tagovailoa, MIA (2 Viewers)

I posted this in the Detroit Lions thread:

I've been wanting the Lions to trade Stafford for years, but I'm resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen.

With that assumed to be the case, they don't need to draft Tua, but they better take the best offer they get to trade down. 

I think the absolute best news for Lions fans this off-season would be:

1) Tua's health checks out, and he looks to be ready to go at least at some point this season (and appears to be on the road to a complete recovery).

2) Phillip Rivers signs a contract with someone other than the Chargers or retires, and the Chargers don't sign a long-term free agent (a short deal wouldn't scare me).

3) The Panthers trade Cam Newton.

With those three things, that #3 pick becomes awfully valuable, hoping that the Dolphins, Panthers, and Chargers all could potentially get into a bidding war to trade up with the Lions to draft Tua.

But since we are talking about the Lions, I expect all three of those things to happen, the Lions draft Okudah, and the Giants make a blockbuster trade at #4.

 
I made a Tua thread years ago and there was much of the same. I just wanted to add this here

Marcus and Tua had the best (QB) coach that I've ever heard speak. I mean better than NFL QB coaches that I've heard in interviews. When Saban's scouts were going to recruit Tua, they were amazed by the coach and told Saban. He took the next flight out and brought him to Alabama at a hefty price to help coach. Think about Hurts and Tua and Jones and...the guy is just incredible. Ya gotta see his youtube videos and to the incredible detail he can break down a QBs single snap.

Last I looked, he had a disagreement with Saban and was either going to return to Hawaii or look for an NFL job as a QB coach. IDK what happened and I have to make a mental note to even search for the guy so I'm not really up to speed. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Tua's NFL team hires this guy.

College- 

Mariota's college coach was let go from the Bears where he was a figurehead of an OC.  It seems reasonable to assume he'd like to be actual OC.

Washington's coach re-signed and is looking for the next step in life. He became famous quick at Boise State and this year has one of the best QBs in the draft.

On top of all that happened the last two years, it seems like college offenses are heading more toward the NFL than usual. It seems we're losing the cliche "you can do that in college but not in the NFL."

Whether you agree with that or not, the quick passing tendencies that are spiking in the NFL also lend to my thought here.

Tua is too small and he is likely to get injured as the data suggests, BUT he and Murray are absolutely perfect for how the NFL is developing. There will probably always be a place for the rocket armed pocket QB, but these guys that can run and read on the fly and react with well placed passes are the commodity to have in the near future.

Many years ago, there was a story of how Jim Fassel and Ernie Accorsi had to redo the Giants offensive line because of Tiki's style versus the pounder Rodney Hampton. This meshed with Shanahan redoing the Broncos line to a zone blocking scheme and...all sorts. The Giants needed faster linemen and almost had to have them. 

I don't think every team can draft Tua and have him do well. Watching Baker and Murray the last two years, if you don't have a tackle with some wheels, they are gonna get lit up. Watching the Titans NOT use Marcus' strengths also lends to something here. NFL OCs generally think any player can be plugged into their supposed great system but the reality is that the player has to fit it.

I think Tua is extremely unique. If the right team drafts him, then sure he'll be a first rounder but I wouldn't be surprised if he falls. It simply might be easier to have the current OC and OL and draft a big armed guy. 

I don't, not at all, think Tua is plug N play for most teams. Everyone loves the notion of a QB sitting a year and learning. This could be something that buys time to get certain linemen too. I think people are greatly overstating how Tua could just show up on an NFL team and make them better.

 
Pro Football Network’s Benjamin Allbright reports that the Dolphins are potentially interested in trading up to the second or third pick to take Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa if that becomes necessary.

LSU's Joe Burrow is expected to go 1.1 to the Bengals. The Redskins, Lions and Giants pick between Cincy and Miami's slot at 1.5. A Dolphins move up the board would obviously be more of a defensive move than an offensive move, as those three teams won't be taking a quarterback in the top-4. But a defensive move that the Fins may ultimately calculate as necessary with the Chargers sitting at 1.6, perhaps interested in bucking up for a move up for a signal-caller themselves.

SOURCE: Pro Football Network

Jan 18, 2020, 2:59 PM ET
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Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa on his hip:

"No one can really tell if it’s going to heal correctly" https://t.co/VSe1UC2HHb

— Eric Edholm (@Eric_Edholm) January 30, 2020

 
Rotoworld take:

Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa said on Thursday that "no one can really tell" if his surgically repaired hip will heal properly.

Despite their being uncertainty regarding his hip, Tagovailoa (6'1/218) is still expected to be a Day 1 pick in April's NFL Draft. But the medical reports are going to be critical when it comes to his draft prospects, and he acknowledged as much during an appearance on FS1's "First Things First" on Thursday. "It’s just hard, especially with the injury. No one can really tell if it’s going to heal correctly, [or] if it isn’t," Tagovailoa said. "That’s why I think at the combine ... my main focus is to win my medical. That’s pretty much it. Everyone else is going to be there to win the 40, win the bench press. My main concern is to go over there and win my MRI, win my CT scan there." Leigh Steinberg, Tagovailoa's agent, said in mid-January that the former Alabama standout is expected to make 60-80 throws over the course of 40 minutes for NFL scouts and decision makers during a workout to be held ahead of the draft. Whether that time comes during Alabama's Pr

SOURCE: Yahoo Sports

Jan 30, 2020, 12:57 PM ET
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I'm surprised everyone is so surprised by his comment.  I thought when he said a few weeks ago he'd never the same again it was a lot more concerning but saying no one knows for sure yet how he will recover is just him echoing what his surgeon was saying back in November after he operated on him, which for a refresher can be found at link at end of this post.

Tua hip surgery recovery

 
menobrown said:
I'm surprised everyone is so surprised by his comment.  I thought when he said a few weeks ago he'd never the same again it was a lot more concerning but saying no one knows for sure yet how he will recover is just him echoing what his surgeon was saying back in November after he operated on him, which for a refresher can be found at link at end of this post.

Tua hip surgery recovery
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It’s reality. A few mill left on the table that comes from being drafted by a poorly structured team will be more than made up in the long run if he’s drafted by a better team. 
Or it’s complete island mentality transparency 🤷‍♂️

 
menobrown said:
I'm surprised everyone is so surprised by his comment.  I thought when he said a few weeks ago he'd never the same again it was a lot more concerning but saying no one knows for sure yet how he will recover is just him echoing what his surgeon was saying back in November after he operated on him, which for a refresher can be found at link at end of this post.

Tua hip surgery recovery
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Yes the article mentions Dennis Pitta as the most recent example of this type of injury which is pretty rare in the first place. It eventually ended his career after a third hip injury, so I would think teams would be super cautious in their evaluations of Tua as a result. 

 
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Bleacher Report's Matt Miller reports that Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa (hip) has not yet been cleared to throw.

On Thursday, Tagovailoa said that his goal for the combine will be to "win" the medical checks on his surgically-repaired hip. While Miller is reporting that the Alabama gunslinger has yet to receive throwing clearance, crucially, a workout in Indianapolis is not yet being ruled out altogether. We figure to have a better idea on his timeline for workouts and the like closer to the combine.

SOURCE: Bleacher Report

Feb 3, 2020, 4:34 PM ET
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The Athletic's Dane Brugler writes that while Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa (hip) is "twitchy in his delivery and plays confidently outside of structure," his maverick tendencies open him up to durability concerns.

"Overall, Tagovailoa has obvious reliability concerns and the medical feedback must come back clean," Brugler writes while in the same breath praising the Alabama gunslinger for his "passing instincts to read, process and fire." The analyst ranks the 6-foot-1, 218-pound Alabama signal-caller as his No. 2 quarterback for the spring. No arguments from us on any of these points. As much as we love Tua's game, his draft stock is going to rise and fall on just how far along he is in his recovery from the season-ending hip injury he sustained in November. Tagovailoa has reportedly not yet been cleared to throw at the combine later this month. Far more important than any workout, though, will be those medical checks.

SOURCE: The Athletic

Feb 6, 2020, 2:31 PM ET
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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports that the CT scan on Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa's surgically-repaired hip was "as positive as possible."

"The fracture has healed. The hip and its range of motion [are] good," Rapoport relays. This is all fantastic news for Tagovailoa's draft stock. While Rap Sheet does note that Tua will "likely" need another month of rehab (at least) before he is cleared for football activities, the most important thing for the Alabama star at this juncture in his recovery is that everything is coming along apace, sans setbacks or newly emergent concerns. So far so good on that front. Tagovailoa figures to be in range for a top-five selection come April so long as there is no long-term question with the outlook of his hip.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Feb 10, 2020, 2:42 PM ET
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Ilov80s said:
As a Lions fan, I am really crossing my fingers it is at 3. 
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I think the even better scenario for the Lions is someone trading up with Washington for Tua, and Detroit getting Chase Young. That actually seems like a pretty likely/possible scenario in my opinion.

I don't see Miami trading up. They have this huge roster overhaul, and I don't see them giving up major capital to move up 2-3 spots. If Tua is there at 5, they'll take him, but I'd be very surprised if they moved up from 5. 

As for teams that could move up, the Chargers make all the sense in the world at 6. Jacksonville is interesting at 9, with the extra picks from the Ramsey deal. The Raiders are a sneaky bet, with 2 1sts and needing a star to promote in Vegas. Indy has 2 2nds, and pick 13. All of those teams make more sense in trading up than Miami does. 

 
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travdogg said:
I think the even better scenario for the Lions is someone trading up with Washington for Tua, and Detroit getting Chase Young. That actually seems like a pretty likely/possible scenario in my opinion.

I don't see Miami trading up. They have this huge roster overhaul, and I don't see them giving up major capital to move up 2-3 spots. If Tua is there at 5, they'll take him, but I'd be very surprised if they moved up from 5. 

As for teams that could move up, the Chargers make all the sense in the world at 6. Jacksonville is interesting at 9, with the extra picks from the Ramsey deal. The Raiders are a sneaky bet, with 2 1sts and needing a star to promote in Vegas. Indy has 2 2nds, and pick 13. All of those teams make more sense in trading up than Miami does. 
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You rattled off three possibilities that all completely  make sense. There are plenty more. The perfect storm for the Lions to cash in on a bounty of picks or Chase Young is almost unprecedented. And yet when all is said and done, they'll take advantage of nothing and pick a cornerback they probably could have taken at 10.

 
travdogg said:
I think the even better scenario for the Lions is someone trading up with Washington for Tua, and Detroit getting Chase Young. That actually seems like a pretty likely/possible scenario in my opinion.

I don't see Miami trading up. They have this huge roster overhaul, and I don't see them giving up major capital to move up 2-3 spots. If Tua is there at 5, they'll take him, but I'd be very surprised if they moved up from 5. 

As for teams that could move up, the Chargers make all the sense in the world at 6. Jacksonville is interesting at 9, with the extra picks from the Ramsey deal. The Raiders are a sneaky bet, with 2 1sts and needing a star to promote in Vegas. Indy has 2 2nds, and pick 13. All of those teams make more sense in trading up than Miami does. 
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I think Young is locked in at 2. Washington would be asking for too much to move out of that pick.

 
Tool said:
I think Young is locked in at 2. Washington would be asking for too much to move out of that pick.
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Which is what they SHOULD do. As a Skins fan I would only trade that pick for a MAJOR haul. Otherwise Young is the no brainer pick there IMO. 

 
Tool said:
I think Young is locked in at 2. Washington would be asking for too much to move out of that pick.
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ffmail4me said:
Which is what they SHOULD do. As a Skins fan I would only trade that pick for a MAJOR haul. Otherwise Young is the no brainer pick there IMO. 
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While Young is certainly worth that pick, I don't think its a no-brainer, nor should the Redskins need a major haul, at least not major by say RG3 standards.

The DL is arguably the strength of the team already. They have spent 3(Sweat, Payne, Allen) of their last 4 1st round picks on DL, and have their team captain in Kerrigan there as well. 

One scenario that I think is out there, but not crazy, is if Tua shows he's healthy, is he out of the question for the Redskins at #2? The new staff has no ties to Haskins, and Tua is a better prospect. Could it be Murray/Rosen part 2? Unlike Rosen, Haskins showed life as a rookie and still pulls a mid/late 1st rounder in trade. I kinda view it Tua>Haskins>Herbert, so I think a Haskins market would exist as an alternative to reaching on Herbert or somebody even more risky like Love.

 
travdogg said:
While Young is certainly worth that pick, I don't think its a no-brainer, nor should the Redskins need a major haul, at least not major by say RG3 standards.

The DL is arguably the strength of the team already. They have spent 3(Sweat, Payne, Allen) of their last 4 1st round picks on DL, and have their team captain in Kerrigan there as well. 

One scenario that I think is out there, but not crazy, is if Tua shows he's healthy, is he out of the question for the Redskins at #2? The new staff has no ties to Haskins, and Tua is a better prospect. Could it be Murray/Rosen part 2? Unlike Rosen, Haskins showed life as a rookie and still pulls a mid/late 1st rounder in trade. I kinda view it Tua>Haskins>Herbert, so I think a Haskins market would exist as an alternative to reaching on Herbert or somebody even more risky like Love.
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I'd think they'd prefer haskins plus young vs tua plus a mid 1st (assuming they'd get that for Haskins). 

You can envision the colts trading the 13 for Haskins. But I just wouldn't take Tua plus Simmons (best case for them IMO) over Haskins and Young. Reasonable minds may differ. 

 
-OZ- said:
I'd think they'd prefer haskins plus young vs tua plus a mid 1st (assuming they'd get that for Haskins). 

You can envision the colts trading the 13 for Haskins. But I just wouldn't take Tua plus Simmons (best case for them IMO) over Haskins and Young. Reasonable minds may differ. 
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The Colts wouldn't trade the 13 for Haskins, at least I hope they wouldn't.

 
JohnnyU said:
The Colts wouldn't trade the 13 for Haskins, at least I hope they wouldn't.
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I would think the most he Skins would get is a second rounder if they decided to draft a quarterback. Teams would know they would want to unload and I doubt they would be able to recoup a first at that point.

 
King of the Jungle said:
Well if ARI got a second for Rosen I am not putting it out of question the same could be had for Haskins.
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Haskins showed more those last couple of games than Rosen has ever shown. And showed more his senior year at OSU. No way he wouldn't bring an early 2nd or late 1st if you compare what Rosen has shown/done. 

 
ffmail4me said:
Haskins showed more those last couple of games than Rosen has ever shown. And showed more his senior year at OSU. No way he wouldn't bring an early 2nd or late 1st if you compare what Rosen has shown/done. 
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Not to mention that Arizona's front office completely screwed the pooch in managing the trade negotiations.  With the solid front office staff that exists in Washington, I'm sure they will be able to ...

...never mind, I can't even type out the rest of that sentence without laughing.

 
ffmail4me said:
Haskins showed more those last couple of games than Rosen has ever shown. And showed more his senior year at OSU. No way he wouldn't bring an early 2nd or late 1st if you compare what Rosen has shown/done. 
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I agree that he showed more, just not sure they would have the leverage to get a first. Offering him in a trade would be showing their hand and I think the end result would be a second and maybe a later pick. Although Haskins showed more than Rosen he wasn’t phenomenal by any means.

 
King of the Jungle said:
Well if ARI got a second for Rosen I am not putting it out of question the same could be had for Haskins.
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King of the Jungle said:
I agree that he showed more, just not sure they would have the leverage to get a first. Offering him in a trade would be showing their hand and I think the end result would be a second and maybe a later pick. Although Haskins showed more than Rosen he wasn’t phenomenal by any means.
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I really don't think they draft a QB or try to trade Haskins. But if they did, I'd definitely rank Haskins in the same tier as Herbert, who will probably be a top 10 pick.

I get some people don't like Haskins but I'll disagree and say he's absolutely worth a mid first. 

Hypothetically, the skins draft tua. I think we'd all agree that at least 4 teams - dolphins, colts, chargers, Bucs, Jaguars, and possibly others (pats? Titans? Saints? Panthers?) Will have some interest in a young QB.  They could get solid value for him. 

But I'll be really surprised if they take a QB instead of young (unless the Bengals take Young, then all bets are off)

 
-OZ- said:
I really don't think they draft a QB or try to trade Haskins. But if they did, I'd definitely rank Haskins in the same tier as Herbert, who will probably be a top 10 pick.

I get some people don't like Haskins but I'll disagree and say he's absolutely worth a mid first. 

Hypothetically, the skins draft tua. I think we'd all agree that at least 4 teams - dolphins, colts, chargers, Bucs, Jaguars, and possibly others (pats? Titans? Saints? Panthers?) Will have some interest in a young QB.  They could get solid value for him. 

But I'll be really surprised if they take a QB instead of young (unless the Bengals take Young, then all bets are off)
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I don't disagree, they should stick with Haskins at this point and take Young. But it is the Redskins so who knows.

 
I'd like to see Washington one-up the Cardinals. Draft Tua. Keep Haskins. Start Haskins this year. In a year or two they can trade whichever one is worse.

Having a good QB is important. It can be worth taking multiple shots at the position at the same time. Perhaps Washington understands this.

 
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