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*** Official *** Star Wars Episode 9: The Rise of Skywalker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Worm
- Start date
shader
Footballguy
It was a silly move. I also refuse to believe that Rian intended anything other than Rey actually being a nobody. Which amazes me, as Rey is the most important character in the future of the franchise...and they let Rian just right that in there?
That being said, I'm willing to adjust my views if the truth ever came out that she was always a Palpatine and that Rian was just allowed to throw that into question so that her character could grow.
Before TLJ ever came out i told my kids I thought she was a Palpatine because her fighting style was like Palps (she attacks with the light saber pointed parallel to the ground, a move only seen by Palpatine), so I suppose they've had this in the works for a long time. If proof ever comes out, I'll appreciate Rian Johnson's move for what they claim it was, just throwing up doubt and raising obstacles to the character.
But imo, it was a reveal designed to be somewhat of a "I am your father" moment. Which made her reveal of being a Palpatine feel a bit like pandering to the fans.
shader
Footballguy
This would be very unimaginative. If they ever get to the point where this needs to be done, they've failed the franchise by not expanding it properly.
I do think that a "remix" of the 9 movies would one day be possible. Use the existing footage, take out dumb scenes. Add new scenes. Replace Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman. Completely re-do aging 4-6 action sequences but leave in the actors. Abandon the plot of Episode 2 and lengthen the fall of Anakin. Fix some of the continuity issues that are there with 8-9...lots of potential things could be done in a remix. But I don't think a full reboot would be necessary.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Thanks for the tip on that - it was a fun listen and they had some really good ideas. I am much more on board with is co-host, but that was basically an exact mirror of this thread. One disappointed in the movie and didn't like some of the more "fan-servicey" things, and the other was more on the lines of "f-it it was fun and Chewy got a medal!!".
Really liked the idea that they had of Leia going out conjuring up Han somehow instead of it being a "force hug" and Han being a memory or whatever it was.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Joonas Suotamo calls SJW's "fake fans & toxic liars."
Reylo fans outraged at Kylo Ren's death in RoS
Reylo fans traumatized and going to therapy
Mind you, these are the fans Disney catered to instead of the hardcore fan base that supported the franchise for 42 years.
Reylo fans outraged at Kylo Ren's death in RoS
Reylo fans traumatized and going to therapy
Mind you, these are the fans Disney catered to instead of the hardcore fan base that supported the franchise for 42 years.
IIRC, it was said her parents were nobodies, and if so, it's entirely possible that they were ashamed to be associated with the Emperor, and chose an anonymous life to protect themselves and Rey.
Koya
Footballguy
In all fairness, I lost my #### when Luke merely lost his arm.
Of course, I was 9 years old at the time.
shader
Footballguy
Disney didn't cater to anyone. They tried to make a movie that ended the saga well and that was enjoyed by the majority of fans. I know MANY people that are in the hardcore fan base that are pleased. If, by the hardcore fan base, you mean an unhappy group of people that have been in negative Star Wars threads for 20 years and hold the following views:
1. Hate phantom menace and Jar Jar Binks
2. Hate AOTC, thinkthe plot was terrible and that Hayden is a horrific actor
3. Lament that despite having great scenes, ROTS was too little too late and that the prequels as a whole crapped on their childhood and that Lucas was all about money and toys, and retconned Star Wars 4-6
4. Despise the new Blu-ray editions where Lucas tried to modernize 4-6 and add some scenes.
5. Hated the modern humor in Force Awakens, were pissed that Luke wasn't in the movie, thought it was simply an unoriginal re-boot of A New Hope
6. Hated TLJ with the fire of a thousand suns
7. Hate Rise of Skywalker, hate the new characters, hate their story, hate the plot, call it unoriginal
8. Hate Disney and the sequel trilogy and yearn for the days of the prequels, praise Lucas, and have forgotten that over a decade ago they hated the prequels and claimed they destroyed their childhood
If you're talking about appeasing the group of people with the above views, than yeah..Disney didn't cater to them. I also don't think anyone in the above group has "supported the franchise for 42 years". They are people who watched the franchise between 1977-1983 and haven't supported anything that's been done by Lucas or Disney since then.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
For me #4 is true, as I just think most of those scenes look like trash, but hey - it's Lucas' movie. The 2nd bolded is close, but a bit much. It's not simply a re-boot, but there are a lot of parallels, and I get why they did it. I think it would be crazy to say it's not there and a close mirror of ANH.
I know 0 people who I would describe as having most of those views though.
shader
Footballguy
I definitely hold some of those views.
I don't think many people still hold all of those views, as with time we slowly come to appreciate some movies.
But in the age of the internet, there hasn't been a single Star Wars movie released that didn't have a very angry group of fans that were trashing the movie. Unless I decided to do some serious internet sleuthing...I'd bet that a large number of the people that were angrily trashing the Phantom Menace when it came out, have been angrily trashing every new movie, or at least angrily pointing out the flaws in them as each movie gets released.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Fair. I also think that you and others attach the "angry" part when it's not always there.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I am fascinated by the vitriol this term seems to get nowadays. Beating a dead horse here though - I need to try to keep in mind I am probably on about 10% of the social media that a lot of you guys are, so I don't encounter this stuff at the frequency many of you probably do.
Capella
Footballguy
I pretty much ignore social media but he nitpicks/criticizes everything SW related and is on those specific message boards etc.
tommyboy
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
It's all in the delivery. An even-handed analysis of the movie where you discuss the things you like, and calmly discuss the things you didn't like is fine.
But most "critics" on reddit/twitter/elsewhere seem angry, thus my choice of words. Instead of saying that they didn't quite like it, it's "omg this movie sucks, JJ ruined it, disney ruined it, it's freaking full of plot holes, it made no sense, they've destroyed the series for the fans, they've crapped on george lucas, etc, etc".
So really, not a critic in the classical sense. But someone who is ultra-critical and enjoys finding plot holes, issues, problems with movies and this franchise in particular.
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L5UT1ger
Footballguy
Confession: I let out a way-too-loud, spontaneous "Amen" when that happened. Im not one to make any noise at a movie.My favorite subtle "eff you" from Abrams to Johnson was Luke's first appearance in the movie. He grabs the lightsaber Rey is throwing into the fire and says a Jedi's weapon needs to be shown respect. His first appearance in TLJ? Tossing a lightsaber over his shoulder off a cliff.
joey
Footballguy
I’m so confused by the take that this was an F U from Ep9 back to Ep8.
It absolutely fits the character of Luke in Ep8 to say "eff it" to the Sabre and the whole Jedi thing, and then in Ep9, after everything that happened in Ep8, for him to say the new line in Ep9. I don’t know how anyone doesn’t read that as intentionally sarcastic and tongue in cheek reference to his own earlier line, right in the spirit of Star Wars humor.
Scoresman
Footballguy
I totally agree with you. Characters change in good stories and I have no issue with how Luke's character changed over the course of 8 and 9, but it's still pretty funny to me because we know at this point that there was conflict between Abrams and Johnson.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Just got back and I have to say...
I liked it.
The Emperor is still an awesome villain.
I liked it in the same way I liked Revenge of the Sith...the first 2/3 was all pretty good and the last 1/3 was borderline great.
I liked it.
The Emperor is still an awesome villain.
I liked it in the same way I liked Revenge of the Sith...the first 2/3 was all pretty good and the last 1/3 was borderline great.
Chewy finally getting his medal was probably my favorite part.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
But...if I have to see the heroes win the day by knocking out some exhaust port/central hub/mainframe computer/control tower/command ship...Ugh.
What's the point of an enemy having an overwhelming force of a million of something of it can be disabled by destroying one control something else?
And no more deus ex machinas either.
What's the point of an enemy having an overwhelming force of a million of something of it can be disabled by destroying one control something else?
And no more deus ex machinas either.
Sand
Footballguy
Watched it last night thanks to losing electricity (finally got it back his morning). Spur of the moment thing. Hadn't seen anything on this, so pretty much went in blind.
Resulting opinion - easily the worst of the SW series, and that's saying something (heck, I liked he Ewoks!). There were a couple cool spots (ocean scenes, the X-wing coming out of the water), but otherwise this was a disjointed, hackneyed mess. Whomever wrote the script should be banned from the profession for life. I've never seen so many ridiculous plot holes and thoroughly overused plot drivers in a story.
It was also incredibly obvious that the merchandise execs wrote parts of it - the "cute" little kids at the festival, the new droid, etc. Nothing but merchandise insertion - obvious and distracting.
A waste of $40. Should have chosen Knives Out.
Resulting opinion - easily the worst of the SW series, and that's saying something (heck, I liked he Ewoks!). There were a couple cool spots (ocean scenes, the X-wing coming out of the water), but otherwise this was a disjointed, hackneyed mess. Whomever wrote the script should be banned from the profession for life. I've never seen so many ridiculous plot holes and thoroughly overused plot drivers in a story.
It was also incredibly obvious that the merchandise execs wrote parts of it - the "cute" little kids at the festival, the new droid, etc. Nothing but merchandise insertion - obvious and distracting.
A waste of $40. Should have chosen Knives Out.
Andrew74
Footballguy
I haven’t had time to catch up in 16 pages, so...
It was a fun, entertaining movie. I think a good ending to the Skywalker saga.
But the dagger, the convoluted sith planet were kinda dumb. And what’s the point of a super weapon on each star destroyer if all it takes is a small fighter to shoot the cannon and blow up the entire ship??
I’m still not sure about the final Rey/Palpatine battle. So Palps has all the accumulated Sith power in him. And Rey has to strike him down to transfer his soul and that power to her. So how did All that Sith power get to Palps since I’d say it’s a safe bet Sith died in all manner of ways and not in this weird sacrifice.
And so all the Jedi magically gave their power to Rey? How the heck did that happen and why wait until now to do that? Why not Luke? And all that power is just deflect Palps’ lightning back to him? Why didn’t he just stop?
It was a fun, entertaining movie. I think a good ending to the Skywalker saga.
But the dagger, the convoluted sith planet were kinda dumb. And what’s the point of a super weapon on each star destroyer if all it takes is a small fighter to shoot the cannon and blow up the entire ship??
I’m still not sure about the final Rey/Palpatine battle. So Palps has all the accumulated Sith power in him. And Rey has to strike him down to transfer his soul and that power to her. So how did All that Sith power get to Palps since I’d say it’s a safe bet Sith died in all manner of ways and not in this weird sacrifice.
And so all the Jedi magically gave their power to Rey? How the heck did that happen and why wait until now to do that? Why not Luke? And all that power is just deflect Palps’ lightning back to him? Why didn’t he just stop?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Klimtology
Footballguy
Saw it last night!
A Kickbutt movie!
Highly recommended!
IMAX
A Kickbutt movie!
Highly recommended!
IMAX
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Really liked the movie -- was enjoyable and a fitting end to the heptalogy.
Every film has some plot holes...but you called out some really compelling ones here. I don' think it was anywhere near enough to ruin it, but it does give rise to these and so many other questions I began to think about in the days after the movie (who was Palpatine's son? How did Han, who isn't Force sensitive, talk to Ben like he was a Jedi ghost? Why even bother hinting at whatever Finn had to tell Rey?).
It was a good time at the movies for sure. And a fun, intense, SW movie that to me lived up to whatever expectations I had.
But I get why this raised so many questions and ire from some diehards like the last season of GoT did -- they both seemed to suffer from "let's just wrap this up" syndrome to some (and differing) degrees.
facook
Footballguy
This reminded me of the Seinfeld finale with Jerry and Elaine. Maybe Finn was going to tell her he cheated at The Contest.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Softballguy
Footballguy
My impression of that scene is that Leia projected han's image as a memory to Ben and not from han himself. Just my interpretation.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think that is a pretty liberal interpretation, but one that I think would have landed that better. Wasn't it said in the movie that it was just a memory or something?
ETA: my memory is fuzzy - didn't she die before Han "memory" appeared?
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joey
Footballguy
Yes. Han memory is after Leia’s death.
Leia used the force to have Kylo pause instead of trying to kill Rey. Kind of her last gasp to say “ there is still good in you”. Then Rey stabbed him and healed him to make him realize the error in his ways and give in to love. Then the Han memory sealed the deal to go back to the good side.
that was my take at least.
Sand
Footballguy
You're right. Takes 1 through 3255 were all pretty terrible. And then they spliced them into that monstrosity.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Finally saw it this weekend. Loved it. Thought it wrapped up the story perfectly. Were there some possible plot holes or things that didn't seem 100% plausible? Sure. But it's a movie about ships that defy gravity and people that have magic powers. So I tend to let things slide. I always think back to a coworker who was critiquing a scene from Transformers where he was bothered by a way a car crashed or something stupid. He was like, "After seeing that, I was out. I just couldn't take the movie serious anymore." Really? In a movie where aliens come to Earth and disguise themselves as cars, jets, dinosaurs and (for some weird reason) a hand gun, that car crash was the straw that broke the unbelievable camel's back? Ok.
Anyhoo, I've stated many times in multiple SW threads that I'm a medium SW nerd. If watching all of the movies puts you at a 1 and seeing every show and reading all of the books puts you at a 10, I'm about a 5.5. That said, if we take nostalgia out of the equation, this last trilogy was my favorite of them all. The humor was something that SW has lacked and they were able to add in enough to make the jokes laugh out loud, but not distracting from the seriousness of the moments. The CGI was right in the Goldilocks area. Not too much, but not non existent. Very few times was I watching and thought, "Wow. They are just standing in front of a green screen." Sure, they were in a lot of cases, but it didn't stick out like a sore thumb.
I loved the reveal that Rey was a Palpatine. I loved seeing the Emperor again. I loved the battles between Rey and Kylo. And I loved all the history they carried on their shoulders. It was just so much fun to watch. And that's the point. These are fun movies. And I love them for that.
I loved the new droid. I talk about how I tear up or cry at pretty much anything. And when C3PO gave his speech as he thought he was "dying", I started to tear up, only to be brought into a laugh as the droid just calmly said, "Sad" in the middle of that emotional silence.
And speaking of '3PO: He got a chance to shine this movie. He had some great lines in the beginning that were very funny. Good for him.
Now I could be wrong on this because I've only seen it once, but I swear Palpatine said something at the end like, "Live together, die together." I thought this was funny because it was very close to the line Jack Sheppard said in LOST that JJ was the producer of. And they would always have SW lines dropped in that show. So it was kind of like now that he had SW, he could drop a LOST line in.
I can't wait to watch them all 3, back to back to back in one sitting.
Anyhoo, I've stated many times in multiple SW threads that I'm a medium SW nerd. If watching all of the movies puts you at a 1 and seeing every show and reading all of the books puts you at a 10, I'm about a 5.5. That said, if we take nostalgia out of the equation, this last trilogy was my favorite of them all. The humor was something that SW has lacked and they were able to add in enough to make the jokes laugh out loud, but not distracting from the seriousness of the moments. The CGI was right in the Goldilocks area. Not too much, but not non existent. Very few times was I watching and thought, "Wow. They are just standing in front of a green screen." Sure, they were in a lot of cases, but it didn't stick out like a sore thumb.
I loved the reveal that Rey was a Palpatine. I loved seeing the Emperor again. I loved the battles between Rey and Kylo. And I loved all the history they carried on their shoulders. It was just so much fun to watch. And that's the point. These are fun movies. And I love them for that.
I loved the new droid. I talk about how I tear up or cry at pretty much anything. And when C3PO gave his speech as he thought he was "dying", I started to tear up, only to be brought into a laugh as the droid just calmly said, "Sad" in the middle of that emotional silence.
And speaking of '3PO: He got a chance to shine this movie. He had some great lines in the beginning that were very funny. Good for him.Now I could be wrong on this because I've only seen it once, but I swear Palpatine said something at the end like, "Live together, die together." I thought this was funny because it was very close to the line Jack Sheppard said in LOST that JJ was the producer of. And they would always have SW lines dropped in that show. So it was kind of like now that he had SW, he could drop a LOST line in.
I can't wait to watch them all 3, back to back to back in one sitting.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Here's a protip for Sith Lords...
When your Force lightning is being deflected back on you - stop...shooting...the LIGHTNING!
When your Force lightning is being deflected back on you - stop...shooting...the LIGHTNING!
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
You ever been shocked? You have a tenancy to stiffen up. It's the reason a lot of guys die when touching live wires. Their hands clamp around the wire that's killing them. Probably similar to force lighting.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Sorry if discussed...
Did finn get plastic surgery??
Did finn get plastic surgery??
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
You know me - I tend to push back on that idea, and think it gives too much of an out to have crap movies with no plot, especially if it's in a series/trilogy that is supposed to flow together. So any fantasy or sci-fi movie shouldn't be trying to have a sensical plot? I know that's not what you are saying, but it does interest me what people's cut off is and when it just becomes a fun popcorn movie not to be thought about and when it's not.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
If you haven't watched The Mandalorian, don't read the spoilers below:
Near the beginning, when they were being chased in the desert, the sandmobile launched a couple stormtroopers up in the air only for them to fly. And Finn said, "They can fly now?" I think this is a direct tie to Moff Giddeon. If he is a Mandalorian, or even if not, he obviously has something to do with them since he holds the Darksaber. And it seems like the First Order now is using armor or at least jet packs on armor much like the Mandalorians.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
If there's a gaping hole, that's a problem. If it's something small, that's not a problem. YMMV
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I thought it was funny, my 16 year old daughter said, "If you think about it, Star Wars is just like what Harry Potter's great, great, great grandkids will turn into. They are just wizards with better technology."
She's not wrong.
She's not wrong.
