What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Example of What's Wrong with Some Companies. (1 Viewer)

KCitons

Footballguy
My son has been going to school for the last 2 years to get his Associates Degree in welding. One of the best manufacturing companies in the area held a hiring event about 6 weeks ago. Since he was in his last quarter of school (1 welding class and 1 English class), he applied and accepted a job. He told them that some of his classes were going to continue after his start date. His welding class was Tuesday and Thurs evenings. And wouldn't matter because he had to go through training course with the company for 3 weeks. That training was from 7am -3pm.  But, he told them that his English class runs Monday evenings until November 18th.  They stated that it was okay and they could work around it. Fast forward to today and his manager is telling him that he starts his normal shift (3pm-11pm) next Monday. My son told him that he disclosed that he had school on Monday evenings. But, his boss said they need him there. 

He now has to choose. Get HR involved and possibly start off on the wrong foot with his new boss. Miss the rest of his English classes and not receive his Associates Degree that he's worked for the past two years. Why companies act like degrees are important for hiring, but they put obstacles in the way for people trying to earn them? 

 
Might be some cases where HR has the ideas of hiring new talent and has not properly communicated expectations and circumstances to operations.

What area is this and what does a starting position pay for a welder with this type of experience pay, if you don't mind me asking?

 
Might be some cases where HR has the ideas of hiring new talent and has not properly communicated expectations and circumstances to operations.

What area is this and what does a starting position pay for a welder with this type of experience pay, if you don't mind me asking?
I figured it was a communications issue. But, I would expect his immediate supervisor to do his due diligence with it. Oh well. 

We are in Nebraska. The company is Valmont Industries. Swing shift pays $19.50 hr to start. Benefits are decent. I'm not so sure that they wouldn't train someone with very little experience. He got a little more because of his (partial) degree. 

 
Does he know anyone else at the company? Anyone he get off the record advice from? Unless you know how much pull this boss has, you can't answer the question. He could be some jo that isn't well liked to begin with and HR will put him in his place...or he could be a guy with a lot of connections who could put the heat on your kid. He could be the type who will respond with some resistance, but he also might not be. Some inside info would be key. 

 
Does he know anyone else at the company? Anyone he get off the record advice from? Unless you know how much pull this boss has, you can't answer the question. He could be some jo that isn't well liked to begin with and HR will put him in his place...or he could be a guy with a lot of connections who could put the heat on your kid. He could be the type who will respond with some resistance, but he also might not be. Some inside info would be key. 
He doesn't. But, I do. 

I worked with the HR Director, one of the heads of talent acquisition, and their IT project manager a few years back. 

But, I'm not looking to get involved. 

 
He doesn't. But, I do. 

I worked with the HR Director, one of the heads of talent acquisition, and their IT project manager a few years back. 

But, I'm not looking to get involved. 
Tough break. I don't know enough to really say what to do then. 

 
I appreciate the help. Just venting. 

I can give him advice and options. But, I have to let him make his own path. Right or wrong. 
Might be corny but maybe an approach of having him ask his boss for "advice"?

Hey boss, can I talk to you ?

My dilemma; I took the job under the pretence I could go to school at the same time. Now you say I need to be here.

I want to be here to learn, earn and help you guys but what would you do?

Leave school?

Leave work?

Compromise...?

This shifts the go straight to HR route and puts the boss in a situation where he is giving advice and thinking for your kid. 

I hire welders and all types of trades people.

I have several supervisors who tell their new hires things sometimes incorrectly and maybe dont have the proper approach or forethought of seeing things all the way through.  Several times those guys came to me and explained their situations where I used common sense and reasonableness to change something, because it's the right thing to do.

If boss says, dont make your problems my problems. Be here and dont be late....we'll, your kid will learn some valuable info about work and bossman.

 
couldn't your son try to talk to one of them and drop your name?
He could. I've given him the options. He's independent, and somewhat stubborn, like his father. He's trying to fix it on his own. 

If he wanted me to step in, I would. But, I won't always be there to solve his problems. 

 
He could. I've given him the options. He's independent, and somewhat stubborn, like his father. He's trying to fix it on his own. 

If he wanted me to step in, I would. But, I won't always be there to solve his problems. 
i'm not saying step in, i'm just saying that should give him an in to talk to someone.  that doesn't seem like not fixing it on his own.

 
i'm not saying step in, i'm just saying that should give him an in to talk to someone.  that doesn't seem like not fixing it on his own.
He knows that I know people there. I've offered up that suggestion. 

How about talking to the school to see if he can switch class times?
This is the route he's trying to take right now. 

I feel that the company (or any company) should uphold their end of the agreement that was discussed during the hiring process. I understand that it may just be a communication breakdown. But, this can't be the first time that this supervisor has been met with this type of situation. I've dealt with it a lot of times in my career where someone has a wedding, vacation, etc that was planned long before being hired. His boss should have said let me check with HR and see what we can do. People aren't disposable assets. It doesn't start the working relationship off in good way. He's willing to work any other shift, he just needs to go to class the next few Monday evenings and then his degree is finished. It's not long term and it's one day a week. 

 
How about talking to the school to see if he can switch class times?
This is the correct route.

But if it doesn't work out, I'd talk to HR next.  If they won't do anything, it's probably not a company or manager worth working for.

And if there is one lesson I'd pass on to any kid about choosing a job, it's that your direct manager and the person directly above them are what makes a job enjoyable (or miserable).  Working for a person you don't like or that doesn't care about you isn't worth it. 

 
He has his entire life to work. His degree is more important.  If his employer doesn't care about him working on and completing his degree--they don't really care about him.   He was up front and told the company about his schedule restrictions before he was hired.  The more a person gives to a company--the more the company will take.  It's a bad precedent for him  to allow the company to think that they can basically eff with him and force him to work on his time off.   If I were you--I'd tell him to speak to his manager and HR and have work find a way to work around his school schedule---just like they promised they would.  We're talking about a 19 year old that will have a degree and is a capable welder.  My co-worker just hired her neighbors daughter to be a baby sitter a few nights a week.  The daughter is a high school student that is 16 years old and is nowhere close to a degree. She's getting paid $15/hour.  Let's not act like a $19/hour job is enough riches for a bright kid that is a capable welder to put getting a degree on hold for.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
He has his entire life to work. His degree is more important.  If his employer doesn't care about him working on and completing his degree--they don't really care about him.   He was up front and told the company about his schedule restrictions before he was hired.  The more a person gives to a company--the more the company will take.  It's a bad precedent for him  to allow the company to think that they can basically eff with him and force him to work on his time off.   If I were you--I'd tell him to speak to his manager and HR and have work find a way to work around his school schedule---just like they promised they would.  We're talking about a 19 year old that will have a degree and is a capable welder.  My co-worker just hired her neighbors daughter to be a baby sitter a few nights a week.  The daughter is a high school student that is 16 years old and is nowhere close to a degree. She's getting paid $15/hour.  Let's not act like a $19/hour job is enough riches for a bright kid that is a capable welder to put getting a degree on hold for.  
Thanks for the input. We've discussed all the options discussed here. I have a feeling his thought is, you go to school to get a job. Now that he has a job, school doesn't matter. I'm going to try to get him to understand that his odds of finishing are much worse after he starts working full time. And that it's easier to finish 3 five hour classes now than it will be to start over and take an entire quarter's worth of classes. 

 
I’ve got no advice but relevant experience on the hiring side. 
 

We hire college seniors finishing their degree in kinesiology for part time personal training jobs. The majority of the time what they told us they could work/when the classes were weren’t correct. Not saying your son did this but we’ve hired people for Mon/Tues/Thurs evenings (4-8pm) who have accepted the job, gone through training (paid training) only to ‘remember’ they have to take Tues/Thurs labs. 

 
I’ve got no advice but relevant experience on the hiring side. 
 

We hire college seniors finishing their degree in kinesiology for part time personal training jobs. The majority of the time what they told us they could work/when the classes were weren’t correct. Not saying your son did this but we’ve hired people for Mon/Tues/Thurs evenings (4-8pm) who have accepted the job, gone through training (paid training) only to ‘remember’ they have to take Tues/Thurs labs. 
I could see that happening. And I've had doubts about some of my employees. Ultimately, I determine the trade off in keeping the employee happy. 

This wasn't the case with my son. He started this quarter a few weeks before he applied for the position. The schedule was well established. Had his training not been during the day shift and occurred during his normal swing shift, he would have had to choose between the last few welding classes and work. It worked out for both that those evening classes didn't interfere. He was attending 8 hours of work training and then going straight to a 5 hours of school a couple nights a week. He finished those classes early. But, the English class requires the full quarter. 

 
Talk to the teacher/school first.

The whole point of school is to get a career, not the other way around.  I bet they could work around it.  If not, so be it, if he likes the job the job comes first.

 
Talk to the teacher/school first.

The whole point of school is to get a career, not the other way around.  I bet they could work around it.  If not, so be it, if he likes the job the job comes first.
I'm trying to help him understand that his degree has no bearing on this current job. It may be a factor with his next job. Not having it may effect his ability to get and also his future earning potential. I am giving the company the benefit of the doubt. That they wouldn't hinder in order to keep someone from moving on to a better position. Whether that's tomorrow or ten years from now. 

 
Couldn't whoever he initially interviewed with clear this up? 
Probably. Could that start a problem between my son and is immediate supervisor? My son, in good faith, informed his supervisor that he has class on Monday evenings. He told him that it was discussed during his hiring process. The supervisor stated that they need him at work. If my son goes to HR, and HR talks to the supervisor, will there be tension moving forward? (snitches get stitches) If the supervisor is removed, then it's not an issue. But, I don't expect or want that to happen. 

This is where I would advise HR personnel to communicate with the rest of their team any specifics discussed during the hiring process. The candidate has done everything right. Yet, it's the new hire that is the person that is at risk for any negative from the situation. 

 
I don't understand the logic of "you go to school to get a job and a career--so if you already have a job--just abandon school for now".  The odds are that this job will be one of many that he has in his life.  This job will not last him forever or anywhere close to it.  His degree will always be there and will be something to build upon as he moves upward from job to job.  Many people that don't finish school do not go back to finish it.  He's basically at the finish line.  If a company does not let a thriving 19 year old kid take 3 days off to get a degree--that's a garbage company that's not worth working for.  To put a degree on hold for basically 3 days of a $20/hr job just seems like horrid advice.  

 
I don't understand the logic of "you go to school to get a job and a career--so if you already have a job--just abandon school for now".  The odds are that this job will be one of many that he has in his life.  This job will not last him forever or anywhere close to it.  His degree will always be there and will be something to build upon as he moves upward from job to job.  Many people that don't finish school do not go back to finish it.  He's basically at the finish line.  If a company does not let a thriving 19 year old kid take 3 days off to get a degree--that's a garbage company that's not worth working for.  To put a degree on hold for basically 3 days of a $20/hr job just seems like horrid advice.  
Not that it matters, but he turns 22 in a couple weeks. 

I agree that the value of a degree is much greater than a $20 an hour job. But, for someone, who's last job was making $12 an hour, it's a big deal. 

 
I don't understand the logic of "you go to school to get a job and a career--so if you already have a job--just abandon school for now".  The odds are that this job will be one of many that he has in his life.  This job will not last him forever or anywhere close to it.  His degree will always be there 
The ability to get that degree will also always be there.  Work experience is more important for future jobs than that particular degree.  Both are important, and both can be had, with the that degree coming later if necessary.

Also hard to say for sure without know a lot more specifics.  

 
The ability to get that degree will also always be there.  Work experience is more important for future jobs than that particular degree.  Both are important, and both can be had, with the that degree coming later if necessary.

Also hard to say for sure without know a lot more specifics.  
What specifics? I'm not being snarky. I'm curious if there is something that I'm missing that could help.

 
Not that it matters, but he turns 22 in a couple weeks. 

I agree that the value of a degree is much greater than a $20 an hour job. But, for someone, who's last job was making $12 an hour, it's a big deal. 
So you are talking about an $8/hr difference for 3 days of work?  We are talking about maybe a $200-300 total difference---being  worth putting a degree on hold for?   The fact that he's 22 makes me even cement my position even further. A 22 year old hard working kid with a degree that is skilled at welding should have no problem getting jobs that pay $20+/hour.    Hell--if you started a gofundme for him--I'll contribute $50 for him to screw the job and get the degree. My guess is that the group here would easily donate enough to make up for the $200-300 in loss pay that he'd be suffering.  Adults are supposed to give good advice.  You don't tell a 22 year old kid to put a degree on hold for $200-300 to work for a company that is not supportive of him achieving that degree.  We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

 
So you are talking about an $8/hr difference for 3 days of work?  We are talking about maybe a $200-300 total difference---being  worth putting a degree on hold for?   The fact that he's 22 makes me even cement my position even further. A 22 year old hard working kid with a degree that is skilled at welding should have no problem getting jobs that pay $20+/hour.    Hell--if you started a gofundme for him--I'll contribute $50 for him to screw the job and get the degree. My guess is that the group here would easily donate enough to make up for the $200-300 in loss pay that he'd be suffering.  Adults are supposed to give good advice.  You don't tell a 22 year old kid to put a degree on hold for $200-300 to work for a company that is not supportive of him achieving that degree.  We'll just have to agree to disagree. 
I'm not disagreeing with your stance. I want him to finish the degree on the terms that he and the company agreed to at hiring. Had they told him at the time of interview, that he would not be able to finish his school, he would have told them he would reapply after he had his degree. This has put him in a situation where he has to choose. That's not so simple for a 22 year old. 

Also, the $200-$300 is not the point I was making. It was that someone who has never earned a living wage has no point of reference in their life to realize that $20 an hour jobs are going to be a dime a dozen with his skill set. 

 
What specifics? I'm not being snarky. I'm curious if there is something that I'm missing that could help.
I dont know the ins and outs of careers for welders, if that's even where he is headed.

In nursing the job is way more important than the degree, and the higher degrees can always be had later and will be paid for by the company.

 
I dont know the ins and outs of careers for welders, if that's even where he is headed.

In nursing the job is way more important than the degree, and the higher degrees can always be had later and will be paid for by the company.
Yes. His degree is in welding. His job is welding. 

If you were 3 days away from earning your degree (not 3 credits or 3 different classes), would you choose your job or your degree?

 
Yes. His degree is in welding. His job is welding. 

If you were 3 days away from earning your degree (not 3 credits or 3 different classes), would you choose your job or your degree?
If I had to have the degree to get the job, the degree.

If I didnt, and I wanted that job, the job.

Mostly I go out of my way to make both work, but depending on the situation I could see going either way

 
I'm not disagreeing with your stance. I want him to finish the degree on the terms that he and the company agreed to at hiring. Had they told him at the time of interview, that he would not be able to finish his school, he would have told them he would reapply after he had his degree. This has put him in a situation where he has to choose. That's not so simple for a 22 year old. 

Also, the $200-$300 is not the point I was making. It was that someone who has never earned a living wage has no point of reference in their life to realize that $20 an hour jobs are going to be a dime a dozen with his skill set. 
YES, YES, YES. This company made a mistake when the message didn't get from HR to whoever schedules things. Probably was an honest mistake. Your kid did the right thing explaining it to his boss. Boss did the wrong thing. So your kid should talk to HR and see if they can find a resolution that includes him attending his last three classes. That might be just not paying him for those three days (as approved time off). It might be delaying his first actual working shift for three weeks. Or maybe they say "Oops, we promised something we can't deliver...either show up for work or lose the job." If the latter happens, you must get it into his head that

1.) a degree will afford him more opportunities than this particular job

2.) the company screwed up on multiple steps of the process, meaning it might be a bad place to work anyway.

 
I would choose whichever path gives me the most success longterm.

To me, it seems on the job welding experience would be much more attractive to a future employer than the length of time he has that degree which can be had later if need be.  

5 years of welding experience and having the degree for 4 years, or 4 years of welding experience having the degree for 5 years?  If I am hiring I choose option A, plus he will have made more money

 
If he can finish the classes and still retain the job, do that.  Any ill will will quickly be forgotten.  Supervisors come and go like a turnstyle.

 
I would choose whichever path gives me the most success longterm.

To me, it seems on the job welding experience would be much more attractive to a future employer than the length of time he has that degree which can be had later if need be.  

5 years of welding experience and having the degree for 4 years, or 4 years of welding experience having the degree for 5 years?  If I am hiring I choose option A, plus he will have made more money
If he gets a job a month after he finishes his degree, there wouldn't be a difference of 4 years or 5 years. If he was a year away from earning his degree, it would be a different conversation. It's a matter of weeks. 

 
If he gets a job a month after he finishes his degree, there wouldn't be a difference of 4 years or 5 years. If he was a year away from earning his degree, it would be a different conversation. It's a matter of weeks. 
Does he have another job opportunity lined up?  What sort of guarantee he has a job a month from now if he HAS to pass this one up for the degree?

If he can still get the degree now and also have this job, that is the easy decision.  If he needs to "get off on the wrong foot" so be it.  

 
If he gets a job a month after he finishes his degree, there wouldn't be a difference of 4 years or 5 years. If he was a year away from earning his degree, it would be a different conversation. It's a matter of weeks. 
Literally three Mondays. The company CAN afford to cover whatever losses come from their own mistake. Heck, if they don't work it out they've just wasted time and money on training him. They've already invested that much, and it's their mistake. They'll work it out.

 
Does he have another job opportunity lined up?  What sort of guarantee he has a job a month from now if he HAS to pass this one up for the degree?

If he can still get the degree now and also have this job, that is the easy decision.  If he needs to "get off on the wrong foot" so be it.  
I can't answer that. Based on what some have said here, his skill set and degree will open plenty of other opportunities to secure a job paying $20 and hour. 

 
@KCitons don't leave us hanging. When this is all figured out, post whatever conclusion came of it. Thanks.
Sure. I just had another conversation with my wife to see if he told her anything different. He's working with school to see if he can attend a different class. (perhaps during the day). If not, then I'm going to offer to reach out to my contacts at the company or at least nudge him to go talk to them. 

 
If something can't be worked out with the school, I would have him talk directly to the supervisor to lay out the exact details about being so close to the degree rather than going over his head to HR.  The supervisor may very well say he wasn't aware and be OK with it.  They obviously are in need of good employees and might be OK with missing a few Mondays.  :shrug:  

ETA:  Is your son wiling to work a few shifts on weekends to make up for the missed Mondays?  That may not be a possibility though.

ETA2:  Nevermind.  VandyMan cleared that up.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If something can't be worked out with the school, I would have him talk directly to the supervisor to lay out the exact details about being so close to the degree rather than going over his head to HR.  The supervisor may very well say he wasn't aware of it and be OK with it.  They obviously are in need good employees and would be OK with missing a few Mondays.  :shrug:  
He already talked to the supervisor. It's on the OP.

Fast forward to today and his manager is telling him that he starts his normal shift (3pm-11pm) next Monday. My son told him that he disclosed that he had school on Monday evenings. But, his boss said they need him there. 

 
He already talked to the supervisor. It's on the OP.

Fast forward to today and his manager is telling him that he starts his normal shift (3pm-11pm) next Monday. My son told him that he disclosed that he had school on Monday evenings. But, his boss said they need him there. 
Missed that part, thanks.  I hope he can work it out on the school end.  

 
If nothing else, this is a good lesson for KCiton Jr to get things in writing.

I'm not blaming him - I reckon most of us have learned this the hard way at some point (& continue to do so).

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top