Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Myles Garrett needs to be permanently suspended


Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 and I think Rudolph not being injured is besides the point. I mean, assault is still assault regardless of the degree of the resulting injury.

 

This is exactly my point- yes by the letter of the law assault is assault... and by the letter of the law there are probably a dozen assaults every single week in the NFL. 

It does matter that no one was injured, it does matter that no one is seeking to press charges, because these are some of the factors a prosecutor uses to determine whether to proceed with a prosecution. 

Edited by mbuehner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Shawnky said:

Not even close dude.

My $.02...  Garrett ripped his helmet off -- way short of kicking a guy in the head while he's got 500 lbs on him.  

Garrett flailed at the guy attacking him (yes, Rudolph chose to re-engaged sans helmet) -- again, IMO, way short of Pouncy's deliberate actions.

FWIW, it's important IMO to realize there were TWO events here between Garrett & Rudolph, not just a guy intending to rip someone's helmet off & attack him with it.  

I am admittedly colored by my fan-hood and the local interviews with Garrett which show him to be quiet & thoughtful off the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, daveR said:

My $.02...  Garrett ripped his helmet off -- way short of kicking a guy in the head while he's got 500 lbs on him.  

Garrett flailed at the guy attacking him (yes, Rudolph chose to re-engaged sans helmet) -- again, IMO, way short of Pouncy's deliberate actions.

FWIW, it's important IMO to realize there were TWO events here between Garrett & Rudolph, not just a guy intending to rip someone's helmet off & attack him with it.  

I am admittedly colored by my fan-hood and the local interviews with Garrett which show him to be quiet & thoughtful off the field.

I do think your fanhood is coloring your perceptions.  

Had the play ended with Garret's tackle of Rudolph it could have, and by recent precedent should have resulted in a flag.  The play was over, the ball out, he saw that it was out, and yet he wrestled Rudolph to the ground and was on top of him.  Unnecessary to say the least, particularly in that stage of the game.  Rudolph was right to take umbrage.  Garret was the instigator then of all that followed.  At that point Rudolph over reacted.  As a leader, as a Q.B. he should have known better, but he didn't.  He started struggling, pulling at Garret's helmet and using his leg to try to pry Garret off of him.  He did not violently kick Garret or even kick him at all, but no question he had his foot in Garret's groinal region.  Then Garret lost his ####, the original instigator, the guy making the unnecessary hit in a game all but over decides to rip the helmet from the guy he originally victimized.  Uncalled for.  Rudolph then reacted, he charged, a stupid move but given that he did not have his helmet on and Garret did, and Garret now had a weapon there is no reasonable way to say Garret feared Rudolph was going to do anything other than to revile him.  He, Garret, was in no danger, reasonably perceived or otherwise.  At that point he chose to club Rudolph in the head with sufficient force to make Rudolph's head and neck snap down and back, showing the force.  Garret has now asked by every unwritten rule of football, and frankly by the laws of self defense and defense of another to have his force met with equal force or sufficient force to stop the attack.  He gets taken to the ground by Decastro.  Pouncy sees this and starts circling, so that he, Pouncy, can over-react.  While that is going on #65 of the Browns decides to blindside the helmetless victim, a total ##### move and one which ought to have earned him a stomping, but the Steeler nearest backed him down with his mere presence and size.  By this time Pouncy has circled around the prostrate Garret.  he tries to kick him in the head but misses, instead landing a week kick to the back of another player's leg.  Pouncy had intent, but was too inept to complete the act.  He then swung and punched at Garret, again a weak attempt, but his intent was there.  The intent coupled with the attempt is the offense. 

 

My take, Rudolph is no leader.  Garret acted the punk in this instance, a matter that seems out of character and which disappoints me as I own him.   He then escalated his bad behavior to a dangerous level.  # 65 of the Browns acted the punk and then doubled down by lying in his post game interview, saying he was coming to the aid of his guy, a guy who was the instigator and to whose aid he never came, choosing instead to attack a defenseless man without warning from behind, a totally cowardly act.   Pouncy acted a ##### and did so ineptly.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Hooper31 said:

Any argument aimed at making Garrett out to be a bad person is going to set off alarms in my head, especially from a group of fans that have close to no chance of knowing what sort of person he really is. He did something wrong. He will play a steep price. Not only in salary, but also in reputation. Perhaps its the teacher in me. I don't see people as good or bad. I see them as people that sometimes #### up. Some #### up more often than others. We learn. We grow. I won't be surprised to see Garrett come out the other side of this years from now a better man. We'll see. 

I appreciate the self reflection and overall reasoned thoughts in the post, but it just seems a little incongruous to preach reasoned perspective while throwing off snarky pot-stirrers. I guess it's a message board after all -- but still.

And I think you are wrong about how people view Garrett -- I certainly don't think that and didn't say anything about Garrett being an inherently evil person. The majority of the reaction here and elsewhere -- and certainly my own -- isn't around who Garrett is as a person, good or bad. It's about the sheer egregiousness of what he did

Sure, people can make mistakes. People can get caught in the heat of the moment. It's a contact sport, so passions in a game that is predicated on physicality will naturally rise.

But at the same time, these guys are professional athletes. Emphasis on the word professional. They are being paid millions to play a sport. A sport where the rules around conduct and sportsmanship (written and unwritten) have pretty much been understood and applied in the same way since the first time they strapped on a jock. 

It's one thing to get into a scuffle on the field -- those things do happen and they are relatively harmless. I don't condone it -- but they tend to get broken up by refs or other self-regulating teammates and given all the padding, it's not like anyone is going to be at risk of getting injured more severely than they do from taking hits at full speed and strength.

This was decidedly not that.

Regardless of Garrett's personal nature, what he did was inexcuseable by any stretch - I can't just give him a "Oopsies, he just messed up and he'll learn and grow from the experience."

Should have been ingrained in him from the start that this kind of move was simply not OK no matter how much emotion was spilling over.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I appreciate the self reflection and overall reasoned thoughts in the post, but it just seems a little incongruous to preach reasoned perspective while throwing off snarky pot-stirrers. I guess it's a message board after all -- but still.

That's his M.O. He was a former mod here and acts that way. It's childish.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Encumbrance said:

That's his M.O. He was a former mod here and acts that way. It's childish.  

I don't see it that way.

I've been around this board a long time (since old yeller) and know what Shick brings to the table. Also why I know he can give and take reasoned criticism and hold a solid debate.

Again, focus on what's being said or done without bringing dispersion to someone's character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I don't see it that way.

I've been around this board a long time (since old yeller) and know what Shick brings to the table. Also why I know he can give and take reasoned criticism and hold a solid debate.

Again, focus on what's being said or done without bringing dispersion to someone's character.

Nah man, this guy accused me of making stuff up that I'd heard -- "make #### up," he said -- and sent me a link wasting my time showing me nothing about my original claim. It was a waste and I'm through with him. 

YMMV.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I appreciate the self reflection and overall reasoned thoughts in the post, but it just seems a little incongruous to preach reasoned perspective while throwing off snarky pot-stirrers. I guess it's a message board after all -- but still.

And I think you are wrong about how people view Garrett -- I certainly don't think that and didn't say anything about Garrett being an inherently evil person. The majority of the reaction here and elsewhere -- and certainly my own -- isn't around who Garrett is as a person, good or bad. It's about the sheer egregiousness of what he did

Sure, people can make mistakes. People can get caught in the heat of the moment. It's a contact sport, so passions in a game that is predicated on physicality will naturally rise.

But at the same time, these guys are professional athletes. Emphasis on the word professional. They are being paid millions to play a sport. A sport where the rules around conduct and sportsmanship (written and unwritten) have pretty much been understood and applied in the same way since the first time they strapped on a jock. 

It's one thing to get into a scuffle on the field -- those things do happen and they are relatively harmless. I don't condone it -- but they tend to get broken up by refs or other self-regulating teammates and given all the padding, it's not like anyone is going to be at risk of getting injured more severely than they do from taking hits at full speed and strength.

This was decidedly not that.

Regardless of Garrett's personal nature, what he did was inexcuseable by any stretch - I can't just give him a "Oopsies, he just messed up and he'll learn and grow from the experience."

Should have been ingrained in him from the start that this kind of move was simply not OK no matter how much emotion was spilling over.

I think this is a very good post on how to put it into perspective. 

Like was said, these are professionals and they know the expectations of their profession.  A helmet is a part off the game at all times but using a helmet as a weapon is never a part off the game.  This would be like if a fire fighter. Got caught up in the emotion of their job and used a fire hose to hose someone down.  It's just known you can't ever do that.  

Garret did a bad thing you just can't do.  That doesn't make him evil but it draws attention because he's had a few run one with players.  But that doesn't define him as evil. Ron Artest had a terrible incident and really turned things around.  So it doesn't define the person going forward.  But it sure will longer with him going forward.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/15/2019 at 9:43 AM, amnesiac said:

quick google search in case anyone was wondering:

NFL helmet:  6 pounds

Bowling ball (adult male): 14-16 pounds 

disclaimer: informational purposes only, not implying anything by this post.  just saw a few guys mention bowling balls and was curious what the actual weights are.  

6-pound bowling ball gets down the lane much faster though :grad:

-QG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad with the suspensions. I think Pouncey appeals and gets at least a game reduced from the 3 to 2. What got him was kicking Garret when he was down. I see one or 2 posters saying Pouncey always uses these things as an excuse. Let me say I'm a bit biased as I'm a Florida Fan however watching him in his career he's not a dirty player. He's gonna protect his QB no matter what. Inside NFL locker rooms Pouncey is being praised for what he did. Jason Peters went after Chris Baker when Foles was with the Eagles the last year before Chip Traded him. Peters said after he didn't care if he got fined, suspended DQ'd he's paid to protect his QB and thats what he was doing. I'm signing guys like these two to whatever they want if you are an NFL GM with a franchise. QB. 

As for Garret the dude is a clown. Him and Burfict should be kicked out of the league for their actions. This league is a privilege not an entitlement and both actions they lost that privilege. Have fun at the local mcdonalds or Chick FIl A or whatever fast food chain is the new go to these days. Its inexcusable. Hope neither guy plays another down in the league again.

Fines I'm ok with but I think CLe deserved a heavier fine plus a warning for the targeting. They were taking cheap shots at Steelers the whole game It got so blatant that both Buck and Aikman made mention of it. That is not a good sign nor a good look for the league. If I'm the league next game a Browns player there's a targeting penalty with a Browns player. It's a 15 yarder and the dude is ejected. A second Unsportamanlike for the whole team as well as a warning next guy who does it is thrown out and I'm throwing the HC out too. Inexcuseable behavior by the Browns. If it keeps up they should start losing draft picks and other things. Just inexcusable and this isn't their first rodeo or dirty play. 

The only Brown I'm even impressed with by any means is Baker: Dude called out his teammate for good reason and gave a very very mature response after the game considering the situation. I think the guy is a clown still but mad respect for how he handled that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Non-jokey thoughts.

I think the 3 suspension lengths are approrpriate and gauged correctly.  

Garrett's end has beem about talked to death - I think his reacting in that specific way was because of the helmet yank.  One tweep said his larynx was being grabbed rudolph too haven't looked at incident since I read that.  Doesn't matter.  Cannot do that.  Sit out the year and then we'll discuss the possibility of a return.

Pouncey kicked a dude who was being held down.  Period.  Cannot do that.  See ya in a few weeks.

The other guy knocking Rudolph down like he was playing GTA V.  Cannot be doing that either.  See ya in a couple weeks.

All that makes sense.

 

Not Rudolph as some symbol of purity?  Nonsense.  The one question I would like the press to ask him - what did you plan to do next if you successfully got Garrett's helmet off?  What was your intention?  Certainly nothing good.  Glad that the league is seeing fit to fine him.

Now the dude that just held Garrett down (DeCastro?) - he is about the only guy in this situation that I think/hope got off clean.  He subdued Garrett and that's all.

Anyway that's what I think - for once the league pretty much got it right.

-QG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Encumbrance said:

Nah man, this guy accused me of making stuff up that I'd heard -- "make #### up," he said -- and sent me a link wasting my time showing me nothing about my original claim. It was a waste and I'm through with him. 

YMMV.  

I thought your post was irresponsible. You passed along information that you were unsure of. In looking at your post again I see you qualified that.  Apologies. Be well. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These two teams meet in a couple of weeks.  Between now and then, it's up to the coaches to drill it into the players to play the game straight up.  On game day it's up to the team leaders on both sides to kind of keep things in line.  But most importantly the NFL has to send their best crew with the direction that no Hanson Brothers stuff is going to be tolerated from the first second to the final second.  If they even think something was chippy, 15 yards and a warning.  Let both benches know that stuff is going to be called incredibly tight.  Even trash talking that goes slightly over the line is unsportsmanlike 15 and a warning.  The refs HAVE to be conscious about these things the entire day.  Have the booth guys in NY be quick on the trigger to review helmet to helmet hits.

If the refs play this like any other game, there's some real potential for the game to get out of their control quickly.  It just takes one special teams jack ### to think that they need to deliver some "payback" to derail things if they aren't dealt with immediately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally Fox sports with Bradshaw, Long, and Strahan bring some sanity to this incident.   Strahan stated that he himself has hit a player in the head with a helmet.  Howie Long and Terry Bradshaw stated they have seen this type of incident as well.  Although none of them were in a game so that makes it easier to gloss over. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting read from a story from a couple of years ago:

Quote

You seem like the nicest guy in the world. Did anybody ask if you're too nice for football?
[Laughs] Yeah, got that a couple of times. I'm nice now, but everything changes when I put the helmet on. If you smack me in the head, you think I'm gonna smile at you? I'll smile at you after I kick the crap out of you and your QB. I come from a family of athletes and competitors. We know when to turn it off and on. You're loving at the dinner table, but when we're playing Scrabble or we're in the yard, there's no mercy.

What's the meanest thing you've ever done?
Against LSU my last year, I choked out their tight end two times in a row.

That's pretty mean.
[Laughs] He had it coming. He just kept holding me, so I picked him up, put him on his back and then I grabbed his face mask and kept jamming his helmet into the ground. I said, "I'm setting you straight right now. Don't do illegal holds."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Statorama said:

These two teams meet in a couple of weeks.  Between now and then, it's up to the coaches to drill it into the players to play the game straight up.  On game day it's up to the team leaders on both sides to kind of keep things in line.  But most importantly the NFL has to send their best crew with the direction that no Hanson Brothers stuff is going to be tolerated from the first second to the final second.  If they even think something was chippy, 15 yards and a warning.  Let both benches know that stuff is going to be called incredibly tight.  Even trash talking that goes slightly over the line is unsportsmanlike 15 and a warning.  The refs HAVE to be conscious about these things the entire day.  Have the booth guys in NY be quick on the trigger to review helmet to helmet hits.

If the refs play this like any other game, there's some real potential for the game to get out of their control quickly.  It just takes one special teams jack ### to think that they need to deliver some "payback" to derail things if they aren't dealt with immediately.

agreed.  it’s fortunate that Rudolph doesn’t appear to have been injured.  
 

I’d hate for this to escalate and see someone from either team get seriously injured.  

Edited by amnesiac
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/15/2019 at 2:06 PM, Statorama said:

One of the most famous sayings in football is it's always the second guy that gets punished.

This whole thing is weird when you take the personalities of the people involved into account.  Garrett is kind of low-key and laid back, Rudolph is brash and way more of a hot-head.

Rudolph should have pulled a Tomlin at his presser or even asked Ben for advice.  I get why he said what he said, but he's got to realize whether he wants it or not he's a leader on this team and has to act that way.  He didn't carry himself like a leader in his presser, he carried himself like a guy that got smacked around and was PO'd about it.

I'll give Garrett a TON of credit for not claiming Rudolph used a racial slur.  Would have been easy to do and would have escalated this thing even more and made it much worse.

How about now?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports that Myles Garrett alleged in his appeal hearing that Mason Rudolph "called him a racial slur prior to last week's brawl."

Garrett reportedly alleged the incident happened "just prior" to the explosive brawl. "Mason vehemently denies the report of being accused of using a racial slur during the incident Thursday night in Cleveland," the Steelers said in a statement. Rudolph's agent has also issued a vehement denial. It's an extremely troubling allegation. Word on Garrett's appeal is expected later this week.

 

Just when you think this guy couldn't get any lower.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rick6668 said:

How about now?

:lmao:  Wow.  When I wrote that post, I was thinking that was the perfect situation for Garrett to pull out the race card.  There were a couple of PIT linemen there, so it'll be interesting to hear from them (and heck, Pouncey is an African American...didn't seem like he was angry at Rudolph). 

It's likely a false accusation, and it sucks he went there.

I did lip-read Rudolph calling Ogunjobi a "female dog" after the blindside hit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

Rudolph should file assault charges now, he gave Garrett a break with that, but this, unless you have a witness or nfl films mic of this, is outright character assasination that hurts Rudolph’s earning potential and relationships with teammates going forward 

Yep agreed.   I just don't see him saying something like that when alot of his teammates (and coach for that matter) are african american, he could be that stupid but I would bet against it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

Rudolph should file assault charges now, he gave Garrett a break with that, but this, unless you have a witness or nfl films mic of this, is outright character assasination that hurts Rudolph’s earning potential and relationships with teammates going forward 

I was against that route, but you make some good points.

Good grief what is the game between these two teams going to look like in a couple of weeks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Garrett is claiming now he went  ballistic because he was called a racial slur, but just a little while latter when being interviewed he seemed very calm and apologetic about the incident, something is not adding up.   But, I think even Stevie Wonder can see what is going on here.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

Garrett is claiming now he went  ballistic because he was called a racial slur, but just a little while latter when being interviewed he seemed very calm and apologetic about the incident, something is not adding up.   But, I think even Stevie Wonder can see what is going on here.

Assuming Garrett made this claim on advice from his agent or attorney.   Garrett should be suspended for more games for this.   

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Man, I really really hope that mics either from on the field or from mic’d players picked up what was said. Because this is really really bad for one of these guys.

It seems fairly obvious Garret is lying now, as he waited a week until his appeal to bring it up (after apologizing for his actions) and Rudolph's teammates may not have been so quick to defend him if he was shouting racial slurs at Garrett.

I will not say it's impossible, but it's improbable.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It seems fairly obvious Garret is lying now, as he waited a week until his appeal to bring it up (after apologizing for his actions) and Rudolph's teammates may not have been so quick to defend him if he was shouting racial slurs at Garrett.

I will not say it's impossible, but it's improbable.

A slur doesn’t legitimize his actions. So not throwing that out there until it’s the right time seems like the proper thing to do. If it wasn’t clear post game that Myles received better advice than Mason, then I’m not sure what post game interviews everyone watched. I have no idea what was said, so I’m not quick to jump to conclusions. 

Edited by Bobcat10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Smack Tripper said:

Rudolph should file assault charges now, he gave Garrett a break with that, but this, unless you have a witness or nfl films mic of this, is outright character assasination that hurts Rudolph’s earning potential and relationships with teammates going forward 

I think Rudolph's on the field play is going to hurt his future earning potential.

  • Like 2
  • Laughing 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...