What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Myles Garrett needs to be permanently suspended (1 Viewer)

The saddest part is that Myles Garrett, a lst round (1st overall pick) Pro Bowler and 2nd team all defense, messed up his money and career on a borderline 2nd string QB that probably won't be in the league 2-3 seasons from now.

I would actually have given him credit if it was like... Brady or Rodgers. LoL. But MASON GOTDAMN RUDOLPH?!?!?!? He should have threw his helmet into the first round and trashed him during the interview process. I would've said... "Mason who? Dude is a f**king place kicker foh" 😄😄 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nigel said:
The more I see the replay the more Rudolph comes off as a dink to me, even more so with his postgame presser and now his agent suggesting legal action. The kind of guy you want to punch or, I guess, whack with a helmet.*

* I in no way condone Garrett's actions and think six games is about right.
Click to expand...
I saw a clip where it looked like Rudolph was trying to rip Garrett’s helmet off. I’m surprised Rudolph wasn’t punished for his actions in this.

(to be clear I’m not saying Garrett should have hit Rudolph with the helmet)

 
Grabbing at someone's helmet, yelling at someone, pushing, whatever else we want to say here are not the same as swinging a helmet at someone's helmet-less head. 

We can play the hypothetical game all day long, but Garrett did swing a helmet at Rudolph while he wasn't wearing one, most other pieces to this puzzle aren't nearly as important and outside of this action and the ramifications of it are kinda pointless. 

There is enough to discuss on these actions, rather than what if XYZ. 

 
H/T to the NFL for getting this mostly right IMO.  I might quibble with the game for #65 (should have been fined IMO), but five for Garrett, three for Pouncey and a fine for Rudolph seems dead on.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
H/T to the NFL for getting this mostly right IMO.  I might quibble with the game for #65 (should have been fined IMO), but five for Garrett, three for Pouncey and a fine for Rudolph seems dead on.
Click to expand...
So Garrett deserves 5 and Pouncey 3? 

I'm pretty far apart from you on this one. One guy retaliated at another - the retaliation was for a guy wearing no helmet having one swing at his skull - the retaliation was at a guy still in full pads. You feel their punishments should be fairly similar, give or take a game or two? 

 
Dr. Dan said:
You're moving the goal posts here. 

1. I dont believe Rudolph is missing any time due to injury. I could be wrong. 

2. A pitch to the head is more deadly than a helmet to the head IMO

Suh stomped on Rodgers which did result in some injury, although he continued to play. It was assault with a cleatted foot and 300 pounds on top of it. No charges filed. 

Didnt Michael Vick's brother stomp on someone's head? I dont think he was charged

sure, stomping on someone's ankle vs swinging a helmet may not be equal for potential harm, but assault is assault. You guys want to talk about assault then you need to start lumping a lot of lesser offenses in with the same charges. Thats the point- what prescedebt is being set and where do you draw the line? If you want to prosecute all assault then youd better be ready to prosecute mlb pitchers, Baseball players in bench clearing brawls, hockey players who get in fights, and hits after the whistle in football. 
Click to expand...
Didn't mean to move goalposts, just attempting to clarify my position.  You brought up pitching/baseball as an example - I'm bringing up an example of if a player was injured because of an "outside the scope of the game" action. 

You bring up bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits and thing like that - to me that outside the scope of the game.  So was removing a guys helmet and using it as a weapon.  As for your #2 above - I don't think so.  A baseball to the head of a player wearing a helmet is vastly different from a football helmet being swung by a 270 pound guy at an uncovered head. 

 
agame2323 said:
The saddest part is that Myles Garrett, a lst round (1st overall pick) Pro Bowler and 2nd team all defense, messed up his money and career on a borderline 2nd string QB that probably won't be in the league 2-3 seasons from now.

I would actually have given him credit if it was like... Brady or Rodgers. LoL. But MASON GOTDAMN RUDOLPH?!?!?!? He should have threw his helmet into the first round and trashed him during the interview process. I would've said... "Mason who? Dude is a f**king place kicker foh" 😄😄 
Click to expand...
Goodbye

 
I cannot see a Cleveland Prosecutor looking to charge Garret.  Had the game been in Pittsburgh, and had Rudolph gone down and had blood spewing from his melon, well then, certainly.

Was a crime committed, yes.  Are all committed crimes prosecuted, hardly.

 
Honestly I think Rudolph should have been suspended as well.  If Pouncey gets 3 games for defending his teammate, then the teammate that instigated the whole thing shouldn't be getting off scot free.  Garrett getting suspended for the rest of the year was a no-brainer.

 
Point of order- does anybody have a single example of a prosecution of an assault that happens in a professional sporting event where the blow never actually connected? Yes, hockey players have been prosecuted for tomahawking a guy with their stick. Have they ever been prosecuted for swinging their stick and missing? Or even connecting but not injuring the victim? Has a pitcher ever been charged for throwing at a batters head but missing? Or hitting him in the back?

I think its important to step back and understand that the absolute letter of the law has never been applied in professional sports and never will be. Law enforcement doesnt want to be called on to adjudicate this stuff, and the Leagues certainly dont want that either.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: OPS
Just getting back into the thread since late morning. This is what I expected or more. If they allowed him to come back this season or playoffs (I know) that would have been a ridiculous ruling. 
 

I think Myles can overcome this if he takes his medicine, is patient and says and does the right thing. 

 
matttyl said:
You bring up bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits and thing like that - to me that outside the scope of the game.  So was removing a guys helmet and using it as a weapon.  
Click to expand...
So do you support assault charges for bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits, and fights?

 
billmatic said:
Honestly I think Rudolph should have been suspended as well.  If Pouncey gets 3 games for defending his teammate, then the teammate that instigated the whole thing shouldn't be getting off scot free.  Garrett getting suspended for the rest of the year was a no-brainer.
Click to expand...
He was fined according to the reports... there was a Team Fine and a Rudolph fine ... no clear $ amount for his actions. 

But the rest of the incident was over reactions to those on the field. 

From ProFootball Talk:  According to multiple reports, one of those fines will be given to Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Beef Ravioli said:
Just getting back into the thread since late morning. This is what I expected or more. If they allowed him to come back this season or playoffs (I know) that would have been a ridiculous ruling. 
 

I think Myles can overcome this if he takes his medicine, is patient and says and does the right thing. 
Click to expand...
Reading his statement, that sounds like his intentions.  I haven't heard anything about him appealing the suspension.

 
-fish- said:
Why does anyone get charged when they commit a crime?   

If they consider a football helmet a deadly weapon, it's a felony, not a misdemeanor.   And you don't need the NFL to press charges.  They have nothing to do with it.   You also don't need the victim to "press charges."   The local DA will make the decision of whether to charge him.  

If he was charged, he'd probably be charged by the city or county, not the state.  Cleveland PD were in the locker room, so it would probably be the city.

It was on national TV.   Looks pretty bad when you allow people to try to smash other people's skulls on national TV.
Click to expand...
Yes. I am aware that the local district or county can pursue charges and that it doesn't have to be Rudolph or the NFL organization. I am somewhat familiar with the court system in my county, which is in a big city. The chances that a county/district's ASA approves felony charges on this is close to zero and honestly laughable considering the cases that are so much worse that don't even sniff going beyond a misdemeanor. Do you really think the prosecution wants to potentially make Myles Garrett a felon? C'mon now. That wouldn't even be the case if this game took place in Pittsburgh.

edit: the fact that there is no serious injury must be reiterated. If Rudolph got concussed or some other serious injury and it looked real bad on TV, then yes absolutely there is a good chance he is charged. Assistant state's attorneys don't just hand out felony charges willy-nilly.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Smile
Reactions: OPS
Dr. Dan said:
So do you support assault charges for bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits, and fights?
Click to expand...
Depends on the situation.  I'd support a "bench clearing brawl" if one of the players came out with a bat and was swinging it, and striking another player - heck yes that's assault.  I'd feel the same way in a hockey fight if they were using a stick rather than fists ("fights" happen in hockey). 

If Garrett had dropped the helmet after he ripped it off the QB and they continued to "tussle", that's one thing.  Using the helmet as a weapon - whole different ball of wax to me. 

 
matttyl said:
If not "in the game" I would be all for legal action being taken.  If Suh stomped Rodgers and it caused Rodgers to miss games, I'd be surprised if legal action wasn't taken. 

Also, baseball thrown into batter's shoulder is no where near the same as a full sized NFL helmet being swung into a helmetless player's head. 
Click to expand...
I don't want to stir a pot but I think the baseball vs. football comp shouldn't be made because it is the INTENT that matters.  You may be throwing a baseball at a guys shoulder but...if you miss and hit his head...you could literally kill a man.  So, just FWIW, I think you look at these things from the perspective of "how much was the person ACTING inappropriately.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Grabbing at someone's helmet, yelling at someone, pushing, whatever else we want to say here are not the same as swinging a helmet at someone's helmet-less head. 

We can play the hypothetical game all day long, but Garrett did swing a helmet at Rudolph while he wasn't wearing one, most other pieces to this puzzle aren't nearly as important and outside of this action and the ramifications of it are kinda pointless. 

There is enough to discuss on these actions, rather than what if XYZ. 
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Garrett's story at some point turns into "I didn't even think about having the helmet in my hand...it happened so fast and I was just reacting".  

 
Shutout said:
I don't want to stir a pot but I think the baseball vs. football comp shouldn't be made because it is the INTENT that matters.  You may be throwing a baseball at a guys shoulder but...if you miss and hit his head...you could literally kill a man.  So, just FWIW, I think you look at these things from the perspective of "how much was the person ACTING inappropriately.
Click to expand...
Right.  Throwing a pitch in and of itself is appropriate and part of the game.  Where that pitch goes.....there's a bit of gray area.  But removing a dudes helmet and using it as a weapon in no way shape or form is appropriate. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
So Garrett deserves 5 and Pouncey 3? 

I'm pretty far apart from you on this one. One guy retaliated at another - the retaliation was for a guy wearing no helmet having one swing at his skull - the retaliation was at a guy still in full pads. You feel their punishments should be fairly similar, give or take a game or two? 
Click to expand...
Pouncey does deserve 3 games in my opinion. The moment he started to kick Garrett's head, he went from 1 or 2 games to 3

 
fantasycurse42 said:
So Garrett deserves 5 and Pouncey 3? 

I'm pretty far apart from you on this one. One guy retaliated at another - the retaliation was for a guy wearing no helmet having one swing at his skull - the retaliation was at a guy still in full pads. You feel their punishments should be fairly similar, give or take a game or two? 
Click to expand...
Is what Garret did any worse or not than what Hunt did off the field?

 
matttyl said:
Right.  Throwing a pitch in and of itself is appropriate and part of the game.  Where that pitch goes.....there's a bit of gray area.  But removing a dudes helmet and using it as a weapon in no way shape or form is appropriate. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, that was one of the most blatantly shocking things I've seen since Haynesworth. 

 
matttyl said:
If not "in the game" I would be all for legal action being taken.  If Suh stomped Rodgers and it caused Rodgers to miss games, I'd be surprised if legal action wasn't taken. 

Also, baseball thrown into batter's shoulder is no where near the same as a full sized NFL helmet being swung into a helmetless player's head. 
Click to expand...
A baseball thrown into a batters shoulder can very easily become a baseball thrown into a batters temple.  It's less than six inches from "back off the plate" to "90mph death rock to the head"

I appear to be in the minority, but being clubbed once with a helmet seems less dangerous to me than a warning shot from a pitcher with below average accuracy.

 
Birdie048 said:
WOW... the pics on that twitter post of Rudolph kicking and then punching Garrett in jewels PRIOR to the Helmet swing!  Did not know @ the punch before that! 
Click to expand...
Yep... I fell asleep and missed all of it live. Nobody mentioned any of that bush league bs by Rudolph in the morning discussions IRL (probably in this massive, too-big-to-read-it-all thread, though)

I did a quick search and can't find any apology statement from Rudolph. Garrett looks more and more like a guy who lost his cool, accepts his punishment, and is doing the things he can to atone. 

Rudolph called Garrett "bush league" but it's looking like :potkettle:

 
Nigel said:
The more I see the replay the more Rudolph comes off as a dink to me, even more so with his postgame presser and now his agent suggesting legal action. The kind of guy you want to punch or, I guess, whack with a helmet.*

* I in no way condone Garrett's actions and think six games is about right.
Click to expand...
I'm reminded of Brett Favre or Ben Roethlisberger, who have both accepted many worse beatings. They also handled some pretty bad games played without lashing out. Lack of maturity here from Rudolph; a team leader keeps his team from these shenegans.

But here we are talking about this nonsense instead of how ####ty Rudolph played. 

 
Flying Elvis said:
Yep... I fell asleep and missed all of it live. Nobody mentioned any of that bush league bs by Rudolph in the morning discussions IRL (probably in this massive, too-big-to-read-it-all thread, though)

I did a quick search and can't find any apology statement from Rudolph. Garrett looks more and more like a guy who lost his cool, accepts his punishment, and is doing the things he can to atone. 

Rudolph called Garrett "bush league" but it's looking like :potkettle:
Click to expand...
The guys on the NFLN called Rudolph out for his behavior and instigating the whole thing.  They still said Garrett is at fault for his actions, but Rudolph should not be exempt for his participation leading up to the helmet swing.

 
pbandy1 said:
Yes. I am aware that the local district or county can pursue charges and that it doesn't have to be Rudolph or the NFL organization. I am somewhat familiar with the court system in my county, which is in a big city. The chances that a county/district's ASA approves felony charges on this is close to zero and honestly laughable considering the cases that are so much worse that don't even sniff going beyond a misdemeanor. Do you really think the prosecution wants to potentially make Myles Garrett a felon? C'mon now. That wouldn't even be the case if this game took place in Pittsburgh.

edit: the fact that there is no serious injury must be reiterated. If Rudolph got concussed or some other serious injury and it looked real bad on TV, then yes absolutely there is a good chance he is charged. Assistant state's attorneys don't just hand out felony charges willy-nilly.
Click to expand...
This is exactly right. If you want to pretend the law is the law and its always universally enforced, you'd have to explain why there aren't arrests after every football and hockey game ever played. Whistle blows, one guy pushes another, go make an arrest. Obviously thats not the way the world works, and nobody want it to be.

 
Birdie048 said:
WOW... the pics on that twitter post of Rudolph kicking and then punching Garrett in jewels PRIOR to the Helmet swing!  Did not know @ the punch before that! 
Click to expand...
The "kick" seems to be Rudolph trying to get Garrett off of him while Garrett's grabbing his helmet. The stills look bad, but the video makes it clear that Rudolph was scrambling and not trying to kick or punch Garrett's junk.

 
wgoldsph said:
A baseball thrown into a batters shoulder can very easily become a baseball thrown into a batters temple.  It's less than six inches from "back off the plate" to "90mph death rock to the head"

I appear to be in the minority, but being clubbed once with a helmet seems less dangerous to me than a warning shot from a pitcher with below average accuracy.
Click to expand...
Oh, they are for sure both dangerous.  Given the proper set of circumstances, either can kill you.  I'm just speaking on if I feel legal action is warranted or not.  In baseball having pitches thrown at/towards you is part of the game.  In football having your helmet ripped off and used as a weapon against you isn't. 

 
matttyl said:
Depends on the situation.  I'd support a "bench clearing brawl" if one of the players came out with a bat and was swinging it, and striking another player - heck yes that's assault.  I'd feel the same way in a hockey fight if they were using a stick rather than fists ("fights" happen in hockey). 

If Garrett had dropped the helmet after he ripped it off the QB and they continued to "tussle", that's one thing.  Using the helmet as a weapon - whole different ball of wax to me. 
Click to expand...
Thanks. I wanted to understand your definition of assault. In the eyes of the law fists are assault, no matter what. my point is if you want to enforce criminally prosecuting assault, then you open up a huge can of worms that may not exclude what you and I ( I do agree that those things happen) agree on. Assault is assault in the eyes of the law. Fists, feet, helmets all equal

Where we differ is you want to selectively charge assault based on severity. Maybe assault with a deadly weapon is what you are looking at. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Concept Coop said:
The "kick" seems to be Rudolph trying to get Garrett off of him while Garrett's grabbing his helmet. The stills look bad, but the video makes it clear that Rudolph was scrambling and not trying to kick or punch Garrett's junk.
Click to expand...
Sorry .. that angle does not support your claim.  It does not clearly indicate Rudolph was "pushing him away", but only clearly had his foot in his crotch and pushing... and does not show anything of the punch to the crotch like the Twitter post shows pretty clearly.  It is a different camera angle.   

But I give you this...  It does show Rudolph throwing a "southpaw punch".... so maybe it was not a punch... 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Dan said:
Thanks. I wanted to understand your definition of assault. In the eyes of the law fists are assault, no matter what. my point is if you want to enforce criminally prosecuting assault, then you open up a huge can of worms that may not exclude what you and I ( I do agree that those things happen) agree on. Assault is assault in the eyes of the law. Fists, feet, helmets all equal

Where we differ is you want to selectively charge assault based on severity. Maybe assault with a deadly weapon is what you are looking at. 
Click to expand...
I get that "assault is assault", I was just talking about my feelings of what I'd personally be "ok with." 

As for the bolded - you don't?  Are you saying you want to charge all assaults as assaults?  Anytime a fist is thrown on a sporting field, get police involved?  Or are you saying never file assault charges, no matter the severity, since it happened on a field of play, even if it was outside the scope of the game?  If that helmet blow to the head split Mason's head open, on *live* National TV (put in * as I'm not sure if there is a few second delay that they can cut from if needed or not), would you still feel that an assault charge isn't warranted?

It's tough for me to disagree with someone with Super Gecko strength.  If Garrett could kill a man with a helmet, not sure what Gecko could do.....

 
Birdie048 said:
Sorry .. that angle does not support your claim.  It does not clearly indicate Rudolph was "pushing him away", but only clearly had his foot in his crotch and pushing... and does not show anything of the punch to the crotch like the Twitter post shows pretty clearly.  It is a different camera angle.   
Click to expand...
The picture came from the broadcast video. My point wasn't the angle, but that in real time you can see he's scrambling to get Garrett off of him, pushing him off, not lining up a kick to the groin.

 
Concept Coop said:
The picture came from the broadcast video. My point wasn't the angle, but that in real time you can see he's scrambling to get Garrett off of him, pushing him off, not lining up a kick to the groin.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.  It does not appear he was lining up to kick him, but it clearly shows him with his foot in his crotch and pushing into him.... right after he tried to rip Garrett's helmet off initially.  So they all lost their cool... 

 
matttyl said:
I get that "assault is assault", I was just talking about my feelings of what I'd personally be "ok with." 

As for the bolded - you don't?  Are you saying you want to charge all assaults as assaults?  Anytime a fist is thrown on a sporting field, get police involved?  Or are you saying never file assault charges, no matter the severity, since it happened on a field of play, even if it was outside the scope of the game?  If that helmet blow to the head split Mason's head open, on *live* National TV (put in * as I'm not sure if there is a few second delay that they can cut from if needed or not), would you still feel that an assault charge isn't warranted?

It's tough for me to disagree with someone with Super Gecko strength.  If Garrett could kill a man with a helmet, not sure what Gecko could do.....
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what I think. The precedent has been to not charge all assaults. Was Tyson ever charged? 

I would say I support charging someone who uses an object to cause intentional harm; assault with a weapon. I dont really support chargong assault for an enforcer being deployed in hockey to rough a guy up, or a guy charging the mound. 

 
Birdie048 said:
I agree with that.  It does not appear he was lining up to kick him, but it clearly shows him with his foot in his crotch and pushing into him.... right after he tried to rip Garrett's helmet off initially.  So they all lost their cool... 
Click to expand...
My point is that the stills paint misleading picture. That's why they are being used and not the source video they were taken from. So while they both lost their cool - I agree - only one did anything suspension worthy. Rudolph did not punch or kick Garrett in the groin.

 
I haven't looked at any stills or video since last night. Is there anything to what Aikman was speculating about regarding the possibility Rudolph's fingers got stuck? Seems we would have heard by now but just curious.

 
barackdhouse said:
I haven't looked at any stills or video since last night. Is there anything to what Aikman was speculating about regarding the possibility Rudolph's fingers got stuck? Seems we would have heard by now but just curious.
Click to expand...
I think Aikman was just trying to come to the defense of a QB.   Rudolph was trying to rip his helmet off.

 
As inexcusable as the Garrett actions were, it doesn't sit well with me that Rudolph got only a fine and not any suspension. It seems he tried to take out his frustration of his own suckage out on Garrett in the moment. What an idiot. He started the fire and now many will burn for it.

I'd be surprised if there are actual charges, but gotta admit when i saw it live that was the first thing I thought, that this has to be beyond NFL punishment. I'm actually surprised at how many of you are dismissing that notion altogether, but man, there are so many examples you guys are posting where the league or anyone else who could/should have chose to not take action in these situations. kind of disappointing.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Hip drop tackle: what is it? Should it be a penalty? Will the refs even be able to identify and call it correctly?
4 5 6
Replies
285
Views
6K
Gally
G
T
Travdogg's pre-combine mock draft
2
Replies
52
Views
2K
(HULK)
(HULK)
Ministry of Pain
Coaching Carousel '24 or The next batch of folks that will be walked out the door in 2-3 years
Replies
26
Views
658
ignatiusjreilly
ignatiusjreilly

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top