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Myles Garrett needs to be permanently suspended


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38 minutes ago, Nigel said:

The more I see the replay the more Rudolph comes off as a dink to me, even more so with his postgame presser and now his agent suggesting legal action. The kind of guy you want to punch or, I guess, whack with a helmet.*

 

* I in no way condone Garrett's actions and think six games is about right.

I saw a clip where it looked like Rudolph was trying to rip Garrett’s helmet off. I’m surprised Rudolph wasn’t punished for his actions in this.

(to be clear I’m not saying Garrett should have hit Rudolph with the helmet)

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Grabbing at someone's helmet, yelling at someone, pushing, whatever else we want to say here are not the same as swinging a helmet at someone's helmet-less head. 

We can play the hypothetical game all day long, but Garrett did swing a helmet at Rudolph while he wasn't wearing one, most other pieces to this puzzle aren't nearly as important and outside of this action and the ramifications of it are kinda pointless. 

There is enough to discuss on these actions, rather than what if XYZ. 

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4 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

H/T to the NFL for getting this mostly right IMO.  I might quibble with the game for #65 (should have been fined IMO), but five for Garrett, three for Pouncey and a fine for Rudolph seems dead on.

So Garrett deserves 5 and Pouncey 3? 

I'm pretty far apart from you on this one. One guy retaliated at another - the retaliation was for a guy wearing no helmet having one swing at his skull - the retaliation was at a guy still in full pads. You feel their punishments should be fairly similar, give or take a game or two? 

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11 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

You're moving the goal posts here. 

1. I dont believe Rudolph is missing any time due to injury. I could be wrong. 

2. A pitch to the head is more deadly than a helmet to the head IMO

 

Suh stomped on Rodgers which did result in some injury, although he continued to play. It was assault with a cleatted foot and 300 pounds on top of it. No charges filed. 

Didnt Michael Vick's brother stomp on someone's head? I dont think he was charged

sure, stomping on someone's ankle vs swinging a helmet may not be equal for potential harm, but assault is assault. You guys want to talk about assault then you need to start lumping a lot of lesser offenses in with the same charges. Thats the point- what prescedebt is being set and where do you draw the line? If you want to prosecute all assault then youd better be ready to prosecute mlb pitchers, Baseball players in bench clearing brawls, hockey players who get in fights, and hits after the whistle in football. 

 

Didn't mean to move goalposts, just attempting to clarify my position.  You brought up pitching/baseball as an example - I'm bringing up an example of if a player was injured because of an "outside the scope of the game" action. 

You bring up bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits and thing like that - to me that outside the scope of the game.  So was removing a guys helmet and using it as a weapon.  As for your #2 above - I don't think so.  A baseball to the head of a player wearing a helmet is vastly different from a football helmet being swung by a 270 pound guy at an uncovered head. 

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32 minutes ago, agame2323 said:

The saddest part is that Myles Garrett, a lst round (1st overall pick) Pro Bowler and 2nd team all defense, messed up his money and career on a borderline 2nd string QB that probably won't be in the league 2-3 seasons from now.

 

I would actually have given him credit if it was like... Brady or Rodgers. LoL. But MASON GOTDAMN RUDOLPH?!?!?!? He should have threw his helmet into the first round and trashed him during the interview process. I would've said... "Mason who? Dude is a f**king place kicker foh" 😄😄 

Goodbye

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Point of order- does anybody have a single example of a prosecution of an assault that happens in a professional sporting event where the blow never actually connected? Yes, hockey players have been prosecuted for tomahawking a guy with their stick. Have they ever been prosecuted for swinging their stick and missing? Or even connecting but not injuring the victim? Has a pitcher ever been charged for throwing at a batters head but missing? Or hitting him in the back?

I think its important to step back and understand that the absolute letter of the law has never been applied in professional sports and never will be. Law enforcement doesnt want to be called on to adjudicate this stuff, and the Leagues certainly dont want that either.

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Just getting back into the thread since late morning. This is what I expected or more. If they allowed him to come back this season or playoffs (I know) that would have been a ridiculous ruling. 
 

I think Myles can overcome this if he takes his medicine, is patient and says and does the right thing. 

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39 minutes ago, matttyl said:

 

You bring up bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits and thing like that - to me that outside the scope of the game.  So was removing a guys helmet and using it as a weapon.  

So do you support assault charges for bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits, and fights?

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17 minutes ago, billmatic said:

Honestly I think Rudolph should have been suspended as well.  If Pouncey gets 3 games for defending his teammate, then the teammate that instigated the whole thing shouldn't be getting off scot free.  Garrett getting suspended for the rest of the year was a no-brainer.

He was fined according to the reports... there was a Team Fine and a Rudolph fine ... no clear $ amount for his actions. 

But the rest of the incident was over reactions to those on the field. 

 

From ProFootball Talk:  According to multiple reports, one of those fines will be given to Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph.

Edited by Birdie048
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11 minutes ago, Beef Ravioli said:

Just getting back into the thread since late morning. This is what I expected or more. If they allowed him to come back this season or playoffs (I know) that would have been a ridiculous ruling. 
 

I think Myles can overcome this if he takes his medicine, is patient and says and does the right thing. 

Reading his statement, that sounds like his intentions.  I haven't heard anything about him appealing the suspension.

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12 hours ago, -fish- said:

Why does anyone get charged when they commit a crime?   

If they consider a football helmet a deadly weapon, it's a felony, not a misdemeanor.   And you don't need the NFL to press charges.  They have nothing to do with it.   You also don't need the victim to "press charges."   The local DA will make the decision of whether to charge him.  

If he was charged, he'd probably be charged by the city or county, not the state.  Cleveland PD were in the locker room, so it would probably be the city.

It was on national TV.   Looks pretty bad when you allow people to try to smash other people's skulls on national TV.

Yes. I am aware that the local district or county can pursue charges and that it doesn't have to be Rudolph or the NFL organization. I am somewhat familiar with the court system in my county, which is in a big city. The chances that a county/district's ASA approves felony charges on this is close to zero and honestly laughable considering the cases that are so much worse that don't even sniff going beyond a misdemeanor. Do you really think the prosecution wants to potentially make Myles Garrett a felon? C'mon now. That wouldn't even be the case if this game took place in Pittsburgh.

 

edit: the fact that there is no serious injury must be reiterated. If Rudolph got concussed or some other serious injury and it looked real bad on TV, then yes absolutely there is a good chance he is charged. Assistant state's attorneys don't just hand out felony charges willy-nilly.

Edited by pbandy1
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3 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

So do you support assault charges for bench clearing brawls, after the whistle hits, and fights?

Depends on the situation.  I'd support a "bench clearing brawl" if one of the players came out with a bat and was swinging it, and striking another player - heck yes that's assault.  I'd feel the same way in a hockey fight if they were using a stick rather than fists ("fights" happen in hockey). 

If Garrett had dropped the helmet after he ripped it off the QB and they continued to "tussle", that's one thing.  Using the helmet as a weapon - whole different ball of wax to me. 

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1 hour ago, matttyl said:

If not "in the game" I would be all for legal action being taken.  If Suh stomped Rodgers and it caused Rodgers to miss games, I'd be surprised if legal action wasn't taken. 

Also, baseball thrown into batter's shoulder is no where near the same as a full sized NFL helmet being swung into a helmetless player's head. 

I don't want to stir a pot but I think the baseball vs. football comp shouldn't be made because it is the INTENT that matters.  You may be throwing a baseball at a guys shoulder but...if you miss and hit his head...you could literally kill a man.  So, just FWIW, I think you look at these things from the perspective of "how much was the person ACTING inappropriately.

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Grabbing at someone's helmet, yelling at someone, pushing, whatever else we want to say here are not the same as swinging a helmet at someone's helmet-less head. 

We can play the hypothetical game all day long, but Garrett did swing a helmet at Rudolph while he wasn't wearing one, most other pieces to this puzzle aren't nearly as important and outside of this action and the ramifications of it are kinda pointless. 

There is enough to discuss on these actions, rather than what if XYZ. 

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Garrett's story at some point turns into "I didn't even think about having the helmet in my hand...it happened so fast and I was just reacting".  

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4 minutes ago, Peak said:

Myles Statement

It was released about 2hrs ago on Twitter thru the Team's account.

WOW... the pics on that twitter post of Rudolph kicking and then punching Garrett in jewels PRIOR to the Helmet swing!  Did not know @ the punch before that! 

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1 minute ago, Shutout said:

I don't want to stir a pot but I think the baseball vs. football comp shouldn't be made because it is the INTENT that matters.  You may be throwing a baseball at a guys shoulder but...if you miss and hit his head...you could literally kill a man.  So, just FWIW, I think you look at these things from the perspective of "how much was the person ACTING inappropriately.

Right.  Throwing a pitch in and of itself is appropriate and part of the game.  Where that pitch goes.....there's a bit of gray area.  But removing a dudes helmet and using it as a weapon in no way shape or form is appropriate. 

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1 hour ago, fantasycurse42 said:

So Garrett deserves 5 and Pouncey 3? 

I'm pretty far apart from you on this one. One guy retaliated at another - the retaliation was for a guy wearing no helmet having one swing at his skull - the retaliation was at a guy still in full pads. You feel their punishments should be fairly similar, give or take a game or two? 

Is what Garret did any worse or not than what Hunt did off the field?

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3 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Right.  Throwing a pitch in and of itself is appropriate and part of the game.  Where that pitch goes.....there's a bit of gray area.  But removing a dudes helmet and using it as a weapon in no way shape or form is appropriate. 

Yeah, that was one of the most blatantly shocking things I've seen since Haynesworth. 

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2 hours ago, matttyl said:

If not "in the game" I would be all for legal action being taken.  If Suh stomped Rodgers and it caused Rodgers to miss games, I'd be surprised if legal action wasn't taken. 

Also, baseball thrown into batter's shoulder is no where near the same as a full sized NFL helmet being swung into a helmetless player's head. 

A baseball thrown into a batters shoulder can very easily become a baseball thrown into a batters temple.  It's less than six inches from "back off the plate" to "90mph death rock to the head"

I appear to be in the minority, but being clubbed once with a helmet seems less dangerous to me than a warning shot from a pitcher with below average accuracy.

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13 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

WOW... the pics on that twitter post of Rudolph kicking and then punching Garrett in jewels PRIOR to the Helmet swing!  Did not know @ the punch before that! 

Yep... I fell asleep and missed all of it live. Nobody mentioned any of that bush league bs by Rudolph in the morning discussions IRL (probably in this massive, too-big-to-read-it-all thread, though)

I did a quick search and can't find any apology statement from Rudolph. Garrett looks more and more like a guy who lost his cool, accepts his punishment, and is doing the things he can to atone. 

Rudolph called Garrett "bush league" but it's looking like :potkettle:

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2 hours ago, Nigel said:

The more I see the replay the more Rudolph comes off as a dink to me, even more so with his postgame presser and now his agent suggesting legal action. The kind of guy you want to punch or, I guess, whack with a helmet.*

 

* I in no way condone Garrett's actions and think six games is about right.

I'm reminded of Brett Favre or Ben Roethlisberger, who have both accepted many worse beatings. They also handled some pretty bad games played without lashing out. Lack of maturity here from Rudolph; a team leader keeps his team from these shenegans.

But here we are talking about this nonsense instead of how ####ty Rudolph played. 

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4 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

Yep... I fell asleep and missed all of it live. Nobody mentioned any of that bush league bs by Rudolph in the morning discussions IRL (probably in this massive, too-big-to-read-it-all thread, though)

I did a quick search and can't find any apology statement from Rudolph. Garrett looks more and more like a guy who lost his cool, accepts his punishment, and is doing the things he can to atone. 

Rudolph called Garrett "bush league" but it's looking like :potkettle:

The guys on the NFLN called Rudolph out for his behavior and instigating the whole thing.  They still said Garrett is at fault for his actions, but Rudolph should not be exempt for his participation leading up to the helmet swing.

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32 minutes ago, pbandy1 said:

Yes. I am aware that the local district or county can pursue charges and that it doesn't have to be Rudolph or the NFL organization. I am somewhat familiar with the court system in my county, which is in a big city. The chances that a county/district's ASA approves felony charges on this is close to zero and honestly laughable considering the cases that are so much worse that don't even sniff going beyond a misdemeanor. Do you really think the prosecution wants to potentially make Myles Garrett a felon? C'mon now. That wouldn't even be the case if this game took place in Pittsburgh.

 

edit: the fact that there is no serious injury must be reiterated. If Rudolph got concussed or some other serious injury and it looked real bad on TV, then yes absolutely there is a good chance he is charged. Assistant state's attorneys don't just hand out felony charges willy-nilly.

This is exactly right. If you want to pretend the law is the law and its always universally enforced, you'd have to explain why there aren't arrests after every football and hockey game ever played. Whistle blows, one guy pushes another, go make an arrest. Obviously thats not the way the world works, and nobody want it to be.

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18 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

WOW... the pics on that twitter post of Rudolph kicking and then punching Garrett in jewels PRIOR to the Helmet swing!  Did not know @ the punch before that! 

The "kick" seems to be Rudolph trying to get Garrett off of him while Garrett's grabbing his helmet. The stills look bad, but the video makes it clear that Rudolph was scrambling and not trying to kick or punch Garrett's junk.

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15 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

A baseball thrown into a batters shoulder can very easily become a baseball thrown into a batters temple.  It's less than six inches from "back off the plate" to "90mph death rock to the head"

I appear to be in the minority, but being clubbed once with a helmet seems less dangerous to me than a warning shot from a pitcher with below average accuracy.

Oh, they are for sure both dangerous.  Given the proper set of circumstances, either can kill you.  I'm just speaking on if I feel legal action is warranted or not.  In baseball having pitches thrown at/towards you is part of the game.  In football having your helmet ripped off and used as a weapon against you isn't. 

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49 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Depends on the situation.  I'd support a "bench clearing brawl" if one of the players came out with a bat and was swinging it, and striking another player - heck yes that's assault.  I'd feel the same way in a hockey fight if they were using a stick rather than fists ("fights" happen in hockey). 

If Garrett had dropped the helmet after he ripped it off the QB and they continued to "tussle", that's one thing.  Using the helmet as a weapon - whole different ball of wax to me. 

Thanks. I wanted to understand your definition of assault. In the eyes of the law fists are assault, no matter what. my point is if you want to enforce criminally prosecuting assault, then you open up a huge can of worms that may not exclude what you and I ( I do agree that those things happen) agree on. Assault is assault in the eyes of the law. Fists, feet, helmets all equal

Where we differ is you want to selectively charge assault based on severity. Maybe assault with a deadly weapon is what you are looking at. 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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19 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

The "kick" seems to be Rudolph trying to get Garrett off of him while Garrett's grabbing his helmet. The stills look bad, but the video makes it clear that Rudolph was scrambling and not trying to kick or punch Garrett's junk.

Sorry .. that angle does not support your claim.  It does not clearly indicate Rudolph was "pushing him away", but only clearly had his foot in his crotch and pushing... and does not show anything of the punch to the crotch like the Twitter post shows pretty clearly.  It is a different camera angle.   

 

But I give you this...  It does show Rudolph throwing a "southpaw punch".... so maybe it was not a punch... 

Edited by Birdie048
Southpaw
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13 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Thanks. I wanted to understand your definition of assault. In the eyes of the law fists are assault, no matter what. my point is if you want to enforce criminally prosecuting assault, then you open up a huge can of worms that may not exclude what you and I ( I do agree that those things happen) agree on. Assault is assault in the eyes of the law. Fists, feet, helmets all equal

Where we differ is you want to selectively charge assault based on severity. Maybe assault with a deadly weapon is what you are looking at. 

I get that "assault is assault", I was just talking about my feelings of what I'd personally be "ok with." 

As for the bolded - you don't?  Are you saying you want to charge all assaults as assaults?  Anytime a fist is thrown on a sporting field, get police involved?  Or are you saying never file assault charges, no matter the severity, since it happened on a field of play, even if it was outside the scope of the game?  If that helmet blow to the head split Mason's head open, on *live* National TV (put in * as I'm not sure if there is a few second delay that they can cut from if needed or not), would you still feel that an assault charge isn't warranted?

It's tough for me to disagree with someone with Super Gecko strength.  If Garrett could kill a man with a helmet, not sure what Gecko could do.....

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1 minute ago, Birdie048 said:

Sorry .. that angle does not support your claim.  It does not clearly indicate Rudolph was "pushing him away", but only clearly had his foot in his crotch and pushing... and does not show anything of the punch to the crotch like the Twitter post shows pretty clearly.  It is a different camera angle.   

The picture came from the broadcast video. My point wasn't the angle, but that in real time you can see he's scrambling to get Garrett off of him, pushing him off, not lining up a kick to the groin.

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8 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

The picture came from the broadcast video. My point wasn't the angle, but that in real time you can see he's scrambling to get Garrett off of him, pushing him off, not lining up a kick to the groin.

I agree with that.  It does not appear he was lining up to kick him, but it clearly shows him with his foot in his crotch and pushing into him.... right after he tried to rip Garrett's helmet off initially.  So they all lost their cool... 

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20 minutes ago, matttyl said:

I get that "assault is assault", I was just talking about my feelings of what I'd personally be "ok with." 

As for the bolded - you don't?  Are you saying you want to charge all assaults as assaults?  Anytime a fist is thrown on a sporting field, get police involved?  Or are you saying never file assault charges, no matter the severity, since it happened on a field of play, even if it was outside the scope of the game?  If that helmet blow to the head split Mason's head open, on *live* National TV (put in * as I'm not sure if there is a few second delay that they can cut from if needed or not), would you still feel that an assault charge isn't warranted?

It's tough for me to disagree with someone with Super Gecko strength.  If Garrett could kill a man with a helmet, not sure what Gecko could do.....

I'm not sure what I think. The precedent has been to not charge all assaults. Was Tyson ever charged? 

I would say I support charging someone who uses an object to cause intentional harm; assault with a weapon. I dont really support chargong assault for an enforcer being deployed in hockey to rough a guy up, or a guy charging the mound. 

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34 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

I agree with that.  It does not appear he was lining up to kick him, but it clearly shows him with his foot in his crotch and pushing into him.... right after he tried to rip Garrett's helmet off initially.  So they all lost their cool... 

My point is that the stills paint misleading picture. That's why they are being used and not the source video they were taken from. So while they both lost their cool - I agree - only one did anything suspension worthy. Rudolph did not punch or kick Garrett in the groin.

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3 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I haven't looked at any stills or video since last night. Is there anything to what Aikman was speculating about regarding the possibility Rudolph's fingers got stuck? Seems we would have heard by now but just curious.

I think Aikman was just trying to come to the defense of a QB.   Rudolph was trying to rip his helmet off.

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As inexcusable as the Garrett actions were, it doesn't sit well with me that Rudolph got only a fine and not any suspension. It seems he tried to take out his frustration of his own suckage out on Garrett in the moment. What an idiot. He started the fire and now many will burn for it.

I'd be surprised if there are actual charges, but gotta admit when i saw it live that was the first thing I thought, that this has to be beyond NFL punishment. I'm actually surprised at how many of you are dismissing that notion altogether, but man, there are so many examples you guys are posting where the league or anyone else who could/should have chose to not take action in these situations. kind of disappointing.

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4 hours ago, Nigel said:

The more I see the replay the more Rudolph comes off as a dink to me, even more so with his postgame presser and now his agent suggesting legal action. The kind of guy you want to punch or, I guess, whack with a helmet.*

 

* I in no way condone Garrett's actions and think six games is about right.

100%

The word "tool" comes to mind.

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