Devy & Redraft: Clyde Edwards-Helaire: KC IT IS!!!

[rockaction 23,103]

2 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's not bad, just completely unnecessary for that offense.

This is even crazier than the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf. Faulk was an integral part of that. I don't know that we've ever seen something like this Chiefs downfield offense.

I agree to a degree. Rough day for those that started him. He is completely frivolous in that offense but wait until them not being able to run the ball and get the tough yards gets exposed. I doubted Williams could do that until late last year. I don't think CEH has it in him. They were on the goal line and threw, they were third and short and threw, every big down they had where they were whatever and short, they threw. That'll come back to bite them. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by rockaction

[Boston 2,998]

19 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's not bad, just completely unnecessary for that offense.

This is even crazier than the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf. Faulk was an integral part of that. I don't know that we've ever seen something like this Chiefs downfield offense.

I don't like how they use him...they almost never get him out in space, feels like it is always between the tackles...not what I envisioned when they drafted him.

[Ack88 422]

23 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's not bad, just completely unnecessary for that offense.

This is even crazier than the Rams' Greatest Show on Turf. Faulk was an integral part of that. I don't know that we've ever seen something like this Chiefs downfield offense.

The Chiefs completely had their way throwing the ball, really not needing the run game at all. While he hasn’t been what we all hoped at this early stage, he’s still a top 15 RB. Better days are ahead. 

[Andy Dufresne 11,674]

3 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

The Chiefs completely had their way throwing the ball, really not needing the run game at all. While he hasn’t been what we all hoped at this early stage, he’s still a top 15 RB. Better days are ahead. 

Since his 26 carry game against Buffalo he's had carries of 8, 6, 5, 14, and 11 and catches of 1, 3, 3, 1, and 1. This is not a random event. 

I think people get in trouble when they look at cumulative stats. 

It's been a tale of two seasons for CEH. There's a clear dividing line between weeks 6 & 7.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Andy Dufresne

[Max55 56]

He will be very hard to trust in the fantasy playoffs but I doubt a lot of us will have a better option.  

I certainly don’t at the moment. 

[The Frankman 3,303]

Quote

Clyde Edwards-Helaire rushed 11 times for 37 yards in the Chiefs' Week 12 win over the Bucs.

He notched one catch for two yards on his lone target in the passing game. CEH out-touched Le'Veon Bell 12-7, but it was all Patrick Mahomes and Tyreek Hill in this one. Edwards-Helaire has become an extremely TD-dependent back-end RB2 despite playing in the league's most explosive offense. The Chiefs get the Broncos next time out in Week 13.

- Rotoworld

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by The Frankman

[caustic 3,736]

I’m not the biggest CEH fan, but as a Chiefs fan I think a fair amount of blame falls on the OL here. CEH isn’t a powerful guy to begin with, and the Chiefs’ OL is just a dumpster fire right now. Osemele is out for the year, Schwartz is hurt, Duvernay-Tardif and Lucas Niang opted out due to COVID. I think there are very few RBs who would be successful behind an OL with 3-4 backups. Reid’s best bet is to just let Mahomes scramble and make some magic happen, so that’s what he does.

[SayWhat? 4,088]

I’m pretty floored that they’re not using him in space as a receiver.  Granted, you can’t critique the Chiefs offense much, but that’s where CEH should be pure lightning.

[Sea Duck 1,065]

51 minutes ago, SayWhat? said:

I’m pretty floored that they’re not using him in space as a receiver.  Granted, you can’t critique the Chiefs offense much, but that’s where CEH should be pure lightning.

Mahomes is too good to need a safety valve.

[InDitkaWeTrust 6]

Looks like the schedule eases up a bit for KC in 3 of the remaining 5 weeks.  What's the likelyhood he gets closer to 20 touches per game with that in mind?

[Max55 56]

2 hours ago, InDitkaWeTrust said:

Looks like the schedule eases up a bit for KC in 3 of the remaining 5 weeks.  What's the likelyhood he gets closer to 20 touches per game with that in mind?

IMO the chance of that is low.

Hes hard to trust right now but still likely to be a weekly starter in most leagues. 

[rockaction 23,103]

Fascinating. Been doing some reading about 11 personnel and rush success. CEH should be utterly tearing it up if 538 and Sharp Football are to be believed. It's all about the fronts he faces and the distance on the field to the goal line from which he faces these fronts. Great stuff. 

KC uses 11 personnel 72% of the time and 12 personnel 21% of the time. The base offense in the NFL used to be a split between, 11, 12, and 21 personnel for quite some time. Now most teams run 11 personnel. Love it.

For a brief explanation to help suss it out: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-rise-of-11-personnel-in-the-nfl

For more on this https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-secret-to-the-rams-blocking-success-isnt-the-linemen-its-sean-mcvay/

For the data from 2020: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html

Edited December 1, 2020 by rockaction

[The Frankman 3,303]

The big thing is depending on the coverage the Chiefs have no problems going super run heavy or pass heavy. Tampa Bay is a good run stuffing and pass rushing unit, but for some reason they left Tyreek Hill 1-on-1 and single high safety. Reid predictably went pass-heavy and Mahomes abused the Hell outta that coverage all day.

It's funny when I hear people slamming Clyde Edwards-Helaire because even to this point he's not really doing anything wrong (terrible running/tons of drops/missed assignments) to limit his play; he's just getting caught up in super pass heavy game scripts. It is surprising he's not being used as a receiver more but Mahomes isn't really looking to dump off.

Edited November 30, 2020 by The Frankman

[Andy Dufresne 11,674]

15 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

The big thing is depending on the coverage the Chiefs have no problems going super run heavy or pass heavy. Tampa Bay is a good run stuffing and pass rushing unit, but for some reason they left Tyreek Hill 1-on-1 and single high safety. Reid predictably went pass-heavy and Mahomes abused the Hell outta that coverage all day.

It's funny when I hear people slamming Clyde Edwards-Helaire because even to this point he's not really doing anything wrong (terrible running/tons of drops/missed assignments) to limit his play; he's just getting caught up in super pass heavy game scripts. It is surprising he's not being used as a receiver more but Mahomes isn't really looking to dump off.

I don't see people doing this.

The player is fine, the situation is not.

[The Frankman 3,303]

7 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I don't see people doing this.

The player is fine, the situation is not.

other forums/Reddits, not really here. There is a large contingent of owners I've read comments on that are mad because they spent a 1st on him and are like "He sucks! What a bum!", or are mad because they have a different highly touted rookie RB who is playing poorly and they want to deflect.

Edited November 30, 2020 by The Frankman

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

32 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

The big thing is depending on the coverage the Chiefs have no problems going super run heavy or pass heavy. Tampa Bay is a good run stuffing and pass rushing unit, but for some reason they left Tyreek Hill 1-on-1 and single high safety. Reid predictably went pass-heavy and Mahomes abused the Hell outta that coverage all day.

It's funny when I hear people slamming Clyde Edwards-Helaire because even to this point he's not really doing anything wrong (terrible running/tons of drops/missed assignments) to limit his play; he's just getting caught up in super pass heavy game scripts. It is surprising he's not being used as a receiver more but Mahomes isn't really looking to dump off.

I think the biggest complaint people have is that he’s not being used as a prototypical Andy Reid RB. He is not “the next” Shady McCoy, or Brian Westbrook. Heck, he’s not even getting the love that Kareem Hunt got as a feature back. He’s barely used as a feature back. And now Bell is in the mix muddying it up further.

I suspect in a bad weather game you might see more usage, but it’s striking that even when the Chiefs get way up they don’t lean on the ground game.

Maybe Reid believes there are never enough points on the board to abandon the pass. He knows the strength of his team.

as for evaluating CEH, what I’ve seen is a young RB who needs a little seasoning. He doesn’t read the holes consistently & at least from what I’ve seen doesn’t get a lot of YAC.

I flipped around a lot, but the two games I watched the most yesterday were the Giants/Bengals & KC/TB.  Gallman is a very useful RB. He hits the hole hard, has some shiftiness in traffic, and consistently fell forward for extra yards. He was hit in the backfield a few times, but managed to get back or close to the LOS.  
 

CEH tends to crumple like a sack of potatoes on contact. I haven’t looked at his YAC stats,  just going by what I’ve seen, and what I saw yesterday. When the hole isn’t where he expects it to be he sort of runs into where it should have been instead of improvising or shifting to find a better angle. And his lack of success in short yardage is likely why they brought in Bell. 

I think he is capable of improving in all of these facets of the game - he’s looked good at times too. But he’s not “centerpiece of the offense” good - not with a healthy Mahomes, Kelce & Tyreek Hill. Defenses have little chance against that, so Reid probably isn’t in a hurry to shift the emphasis to CEH any time soon.

Possible that in time CEH develops further & becomes that next great Andy Reid RB. But much of the perceived failure of CEH as a stud fantasy back is probably more the result of FF manager’s expectations Vs how Reid is actually using him.

He’s not a bad RB. He’s just not the player/situation owners through they were buying. That could improve over time. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Hot Sauce Guy

[Hot Sauce Guy 8,910]

13 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I don't see people doing this.

The player is fine, the situation is not.

I agree with this. 

[GreenNGold 107]

23 hours ago, Ack88 said:

he’s still a top 15 RB. 

you in an AFC only league? 

[Buckna 1,392]

Been about a month since I have seen PFF updated rankings but at the halfway point in the season CEH led all rookies in forced missed tackles and yards after contact.

[Max55 56]

28 minutes ago, Buckna said:

Been about a month since I have seen PFF updated rankings but at the halfway point in the season CEH led all rookies in forced missed tackles and yards after contact.

I believe you but surprising considering James Robinson probably has at least twice as many touches and just appears to be better.....

Edited December 1, 2020 by Max55

[Ack88 422]

1 hour ago, GreenNGold said:

you in an AFC only league? 

Which 14 ppr RBs would you take over him?

[GreenNGold 107]

1 hour ago, Ack88 said:

Which 14 ppr RBs would you take over him?

Assuming healthy: 

Cook

Henry

Kamara

Gibson

Hines 

Jacobs

Robinson

Gallman

R. Jones

A. Jones

Chubb

McCaffrey (or Davis if he is out) 

Drake

Carson

Ekeler

Zeke 

Mostert

Gaskin

Connor 

Gore

A few of those are close, there are some not on the list are close too.  

 

I have low expectations for CEH going forward and consider him a complete bust, not much more than a desperation start at this point assuming you have no other options at RB, unless he gets another good matchup in another game with poor weather conditions.  I can understand being higher on him, but no one should have any confidence starting him right now. Maybe in dynasty he will be utilized more in the years to come. 

Also, sorry, my post was meant more as humor, but I don't think you can rank CEH as top 15 with any certainty either, I'd consider him to be more somewhere between 20-30 rest of season. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by GreenNGold

[Faust 5,019]

Quote

Clyde-Edwards Helaire (illness) didn't practice Friday. 

Apparently it's a stomach virus keeping Edwards-Helaire out of practice. Head coach Andy Reid said he thinks the rookie will be able to suit up Sunday night against Denver despite missing the week's final two practices with the stomach illness. Probably neither Le'Veon Bell nor Darrel Williams would dominate KC's backfield if CEH is held out. Williams would seem to have an edge on the pass catching role if CEH is out. Bell would likely take early downs and be the favorite for short yardage and goal line work. 

RELATED: 

Le'Veon Bell

, Darrel Williams

SOURCE: Adam Teicher on Twitter 

Dec 4, 2020, 2:11 PM ET

 

[Faust 5,019]

 

Quote

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Chiefs are "hopeful" RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire (illness) will play in Week 13 against the Broncos.

Rapoport added that CEH felt much better on Saturday night after missing practice on Friday with the flu. The Chiefs still want to see how he feels after arriving at the stadium but it looks like CEH will be active in Week 13 for now. CEH only has two games with double-digit touches in his past five contests but he remains the No. 1 running back for the best offense in the league. He's a high-risk RB2 against a Broncos defense that Vegas expects the Chiefs to roll through.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Dec 6, 2020, 8:16 AM ET

 

 

[Faust 5,019]

 

Quote

Clyde Edwards-Helaire (illness) is active for Week 13 against the Broncos.

Edwards-Helaire missed Friday's practice with a non-COVID illness. The Chiefs took his status to game-time but he was expected to play.  Edwards-Helaire should handle a full workload, though it's possible the Chiefs get Le'Veon Bell a few more touches to keep him fresh. Kansas City's inactives are TE Ricky Seals-Jones, OL Martinas Rankin, DE Tim Ward, DT Khalen Saunders, LB Darius Harris, and CB BoPete Keyes.

Dec 6, 2020, 6:57 PM ET

 

 

[Truebluey 456]

3 hours ago, Faust said:

Clyde Edwards-Helaire (illness) is active for Week 13 against the Broncos.

 

Or not

[sos32 17]

7 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

Or not

Thinking exact same thing.......should have know better and just put a body in, better than the gooseegg 

[RushHour 801]

Epic Reid fantasy troll job. *chef's kiss*

[NotSmart 2,887]

I, too, missed the memo.

[Faust 5,019]

Quote

Clyde Edwards-Helaire didn't play in Week 13 against the Broncos.

Edwards-Helaire was active but was only available on an emergency basis. It's a worst case scenario for fantasy mangers that waited out his status on Sunday night. The good news is this should only be a one week absence. Edwards-Helaire will be a low-end RB2 for a Week 14 matchup with Miami.

Dec 6, 2020, 11:56 PM ET

 

 

[The Frankman 3,303]

Chiefs Wire: Chiefs HC Andy Reid explains RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire’s absence

 

Quote

Kansas City Chiefs rookie RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire dressed for action but didn’t play a single snap against the Denver Broncos in Week 13.

You’ll recall that he was questionable for the game and had missed the final two practices during the week with a stomach virus. The team announced their inactive player list about an hour before the game with fans and fantasy football managers alike learning that he was good to go. Then he didn’t end up recording a single snap. He appeared to only be available in case of emergencies.

According to Chiefs HC Andy Reid, the decision was a matter of what his illness did to his body.

“I think you saw where Clyde (Edwards Helaire) dressed out, didn’t play,” Reid said. “He didn’t practice this week, and I just felt like he lost some weight with the stomach virus and I pulled him back out. The other guys did a nice job of filling in for him.”

The stomach flu and a few days out of practice and the weight room will have even the most veteran athletes losing weight. It was probably the safe thing to keep him out of the game without practicing for most of the week too. The last thing the team wants is to risk injury to one of their budding stars on offense. As Reid said the other running backs did a nice job filling in, combining for 17 rushing attempts for 78 yards against the Broncos on Sunday without Edwards-Helaire.

Reid didn’t have any other injuries to report on after the game. It’s a safe bet that Edwards-Helaire will be back in action next week when the team heads to Miami to face the Dolphins, so long as he can put back on some of the weight that he lost during the practice week.

Edited December 7, 2020 by The Frankman

[Faust 5,019]

Quote

Chiefs RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire (illness) is practicing in full for Week 14 against the Dolphins. 

CEH is good to go after his Week 13 catastrophe where he was "active" but played zero snaps as an emergency option. In theory, a Dolphins defense that is more vulnerable against the run than pass is a good matchup for CEH, but CEH continues to have underwhelming days no matter the opponent. With the Chiefs passing and passing some more, CEH's RB2 value is on thin ice. 

Dec 10, 2020, 7:04 PM ET

 

 

[dtroitkid 16]

Who's starting with confidence today? I'm slightly concerned after last week's no show.

[themeistersinger 312]

Starting, yes.  Confidence?  Not so much.  

He was listed as FP all week, so not worried so much about the illness.  Just how many times they'll run the ball - you know, the usual concern.

[dtroitkid 16]

Yea, in for me too over Dobbins.

[sos32 17]

Nope he is on my bench after last week. Barely squeaked one out with the gooseegg. Thankfully i have a few options in Davis, Robinson, Gordon and Dobbins

[The Frankman 3,303]

Game script is the only worry for me. Hopefully Miami plays Cover 3 so Chiefs run it.

[The Frankman 3,303]

Quote

Clyde Edwards-Helaire rushed 16 times for 32 yards in the Chiefs' Week 14 win against the Dolphins, adding five catches for 59 yards. 

The rookie was again ineffective on the ground, averaging two yards per tote against Miami. He saved his day with pass game involvement, drawing six targets, the third most on the team. Edwards-Helaire played well ahead of Le'Veon Bell. If this sort of usage holds up, Edwards-Helaire could be considered a RB2 option in Week 15 against the Saints. Being the primary ball carrier in the league's most explosive offense theoretically gives the rookie some kind of floor. 

- Rotoworld

 

[rockaction 23,103]

Theoretical floors must be interesting to discuss. Does he have a floor or not? Seems like he does. He scored double digit points in half PPR. Rushing 16 times for 32 yards? Abysmal. 59 yards on five catches? Not so abysmal. It seems like at this point in his career, this is what he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't come into next year a little stronger, a little fleeter and in better NFL shape from off-season activities, however cynical one feels about what they usually entail.  

[themeistersinger 312]

There's a few teams this year that are all pass no run, like KC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh.  I think all 3 have decent running backs, and all 3 have an o-line that is good at pass protection, but pathetic at run blocking.  It's weird because for years, we always assumed run blocking was easier to pull off than pass blocking.  The general prescription for a bad o-line was just run more so they could at least fire off the line and use their initiative to try to dictate their play.

Plus with their strong passing attacks (KC, Buf, Pit), they don't face a stacked box so running should be even easier.  Plus with KC and Buf you also have to deal with a potential running QB - another plus to make life easier for the RB.  But you see the running backs for all 3 teams get met in the backfield over and over.  Very puzzling.

[egofailure 7]

Who's rolling with Clyde this week?

[Max55 56]

43 minutes ago, egofailure said:

Who's rolling with Clyde this week?

Probably me. But not because I want.

Other potential “quality replacements” include Fournette and Bowden. 

[irish eyes 1,234]

Hopefully I can find some sucker in the off season of dynasty league to give me something remotely worthwhile for this turd.

[The Frankman 3,303]

Posted this in the Chiefs/Saints game thread.

[rockaction 23,103]

Just left the game carried off by trainers. Somebody rolled up or landed on his knee. Not good at all.

[irish eyes 1,234]

Bad for Helaire but not the chiefs. It's not like they actually used him much

[King of the Jungle 1,382]

I thought he was having one of his best games tonight. Ran with really good leverage and powered through on some nice short yardage runs. This is a bummer, probably a season ender.

[Faust 5,019]

Quote

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport said Clyde Edwards-Helaire (hip/leg) will likely miss the regular season's final two weeks. 

The rookie is getting an MRI Monday after X-rays Sunday night were negative. Edwards-Helaire was bent awkwardly on a fourth quarter tackle against the Saints and was helped to the locker room without putting weight on his injured leg. Le'Veon Bell, who led the team in rushing attempts in Week 15 against the Saints, will be the primary ball carrier for KC in Week 16 against the Falcons. Darrel Williams will probably see an increased role with CEH sidelined. He saw three carries against the Saints. 

RELATED: 

Le'Veon Bell

, Darrel Williams

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Dec 21, 2020, 8:32 AM ET

 

[Faust 5,019]

Quote

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Chiefs are "hopeful" Clyde Edwards-Helaire (ankle, hip) will return in the Divisional Round.

In other words, Edwards-Helaire's high-ankle sprain and hip strain will keep him out for Kansas City's last two regular season games. The Chiefs close the year playing host to the Falcons and Chargers and control its own destiny in earning the NFC's No. 1 seed with back-to-back wins. Although Le'Veon Bell's usage was thought to be a thing of the past after he frustratingly handled four touches in Week 14, his 16 touches off the bench for Edwards-Helaire on Sunday suggests he'll return as a usage-based RB2 immediately against the Falcons for the Fantasy Championship round. Those who held onto him should be rewarded with 20-plus touches and two-touchdown upside.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Dec 21, 2020, 5:12 PM ET

 

[themeistersinger 312]

This might explain some of CEH's struggles this year

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings#rbwrteam

Team Run Block Win Rate

1. Green Bay Packers, 74%
2. Philadelphia Eagles, 73%
3. Baltimore Ravens, 73%
4. Washington Football Team, 73%
5. Arizona Cardinals, 73%
6. Cincinnati Bengals, 72%
7. Houston Texans, 72%
8. Carolina Panthers, 72%
9. New England Patriots, 72%
10. Indianapolis Colts, 71%
11. Chicago Bears, 71%
12. Dallas Cowboys, 71%
13. New Orleans Saints, 71%
14. New York Giants, 71%
15. Minnesota Vikings, 71%
16. Cleveland Browns, 70%
17. Los Angeles Rams, 70%
18. Tennessee Titans, 70%
19. Detroit Lions, 70%
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 70%
21. Denver Broncos, 70%
22. Seattle Seahawks, 70%
23. Miami Dolphins, 69%
24. San Francisco 49ers, 69%
25. Jacksonville Jaguars, 69%
26. Buffalo Bills, 69%
27. Pittsburgh Steelers, 69%
28. Atlanta Falcons, 69%
29. Las Vegas Raiders, 68%
30. New York Jets, 68%
31. Los Angeles Chargers, 67%
32. Kansas City Chiefs, 67%