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WR Tee Higgins, CIN (1 Viewer)

Soulfly3 said:
i know, but how does someone so "unathletic" (v his peers) dominate those same peers on the field?
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Because non-athletes can learn to play sports even if they're not athletic.  Some even turn out to be considered top talents in their sports.  But the odds of them reaching that point are not in their favor.  

I don't know if you've played sports before, but every athlete reaches a point where they plateau in skill.  They either push through that and become more, or they begin to cave.  Non-athletes have more "plateaus" during their learning process of that sport than athletes do.  

 
It would be interesting if someone could put together the combines of we’ll say what is generally considered the top 5-10 players at each position since the combine started and their results at the combine. Not the top combine results but players who we now consider the best over the last 30 years or so at their positions and how they scored at the combine to sort of put in perspective how important the combine results actually end up being relative to what actually they produced on the field if that makes any sense 

 
finfansteve said:
It would be interesting if someone could put together the combines of we’ll say what is generally considered the top 5-10 players at each position since the combine started and their results at the combine. Not the top combine results but players who we now consider the best over the last 30 years or so at their positions and how they scored at the combine to sort of put in perspective how important the combine results actually end up being relative to what actually they produced on the field if that makes any sense 
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I did it with 40 times and height based on fantasy output between 2016 and 2018 but it really lead me nowhere.  It helped me realize that 40 times are overrated (average was 4.508 over those 3 years for WR's), as is size in general.  Average height was basically 6'1 for all 3 years and between 203 and 206 pounds for top10 producers.  

Interestingly enough, Mike Evans and AJ Green are the only 2 to record top10 seasons that were above 6'3.  Both of whom are above average athletes and both ran better than Higgins.  

 
So hypothetically testing measurements might mean more to real life NFL GM’s than they should mean to possible NFL success fantasywise to us fantasy GM’s?

 
Zyphros said:
Because non-athletes can learn to play sports even if they're not athletic.  Some even turn out to be considered top talents in their sports.  But the odds of them reaching that point are not in their favor.  

I don't know if you've played sports before, but every athlete reaches a point where they plateau in skill.  They either push through that and become more, or they begin to cave.  Non-athletes have more "plateaus" during their learning process of that sport than athletes do.  
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How bad were Higgins' numbers in context?  Was this like Devin Singletary level bad where no one successful had ever had numbers that poor or is it like 30th percentile level bad where there have been a bunch of guys that became good or even elite fantasy assets in that range?

I get the theory that skill is something that can be maxed out but it doesn't really seem to come into play in reality.  Otherwise there should be no way that guys like Anquan Boldin or Antonio Brown could have done what they did given their numbers.

Boldin
40 - 4.72
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 114

AB
40 - 4.56
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 105

 
FreeBaGeL said:
How bad were Higgins' numbers in context?  Was this like Devin Singletary level bad where no one successful had ever had numbers that poor or is it like 30th percentile level bad where there have been a bunch of guys that became good or even elite fantasy assets in that range?

I get the theory that skill is something that can be maxed out but it doesn't really seem to come into play in reality.  Otherwise there should be no way that guys like Anquan Boldin or Antonio Brown could have done what they did given their numbers.

Boldin
40 - 4.72
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 114

AB
40 - 4.56
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 105
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do you have a list of wrs who tested poorly and did not make it in the NFL?

 
Zyphros said:
Because non-athletes can learn to play sports even if they're not athletic.  Some even turn out to be considered top talents in their sports.  But the odds of them reaching that point are not in their favor.  

I don't know if you've played sports before, but every athlete reaches a point where they plateau in skill.  They either push through that and become more, or they begin to cave.  Non-athletes have more "plateaus" during their learning process of that sport than athletes do.  
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i can get behind this...

higgins is FRESHLY just turned 21... and ONE day of measurables just cant erase what ive seen. for all we know he has a small injury that added tenths of seconds to his time and inches from his vert. i wouldve expected him or his agent to mention that tho, in his defense.

regardless... a cat who just turned 21, in the best conference in college, w sublime tape... i just cant bring myself to drop him anywhere near as far as you have, but i fully get your reasoning.

pre-draft i was focusing on 3 names, in this order (higgins, mims and jefferson) as I won the 1.6 pick in our ppr dynasty. i MAY move higgins to the back end of those 3 now. maybe.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
How bad were Higgins' numbers in context?  Was this like Devin Singletary level bad where no one successful had ever had numbers that poor or is it like 30th percentile level bad where there have been a bunch of guys that became good or even elite fantasy assets in that range?

I get the theory that skill is something that can be maxed out but it doesn't really seem to come into play in reality.  Otherwise there should be no way that guys like Anquan Boldin or Antonio Brown could have done what they did given their numbers.

Boldin
40 - 4.72
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 114

AB
40 - 4.56
Vert - 33.5
Broad - 105
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AB is probably the best example.  He also has the best work ethic of probably anyone at the WR position or professional football in general.  

Kobe Bryant is another example.  He wasn't that great of an athlete but his work ethic was tremendous.  That's where these worse athletes can generally rise above.  

As a coach the ultimate combo is athleticism and work ethic, Aaron Donald comes to mind.  Chad Johnson for WR's.  To be clear I'm not saying that their skills are maxed out if they're poor athletes, they just have more hurdles to overcome or longer development and work ethic seems to be the pointing factor to do it.  

Current best of bad athletes is Nuk Hopkins (35th percentile sparqx), but the work ethic again is unquestioned for him.  

I don't think it's as bad as Singletary because some people completely removed him from their draft boards afterwards because they thought draft capital won't be there anymore.  Turns out that was wrong.  I think everyone assumes Higgins is still a top100 pick, so people are just moving him down boards instead of off.  

 
Zyphros said:
AB is probably the best example.  He also has the best work ethic of probably anyone at the WR position or professional football in general.  

Kobe Bryant is another example.  He wasn't that great of an athlete but his work ethic was tremendous.  That's where these worse athletes can generally rise above.  

As a coach the ultimate combo is athleticism and work ethic, Aaron Donald comes to mind.  Chad Johnson for WR's.  To be clear I'm not saying that their skills are maxed out if they're poor athletes, they just have more hurdles to overcome or longer development and work ethic seems to be the pointing factor to do it.  

Current best of bad athletes is Nuk Hopkins (35th percentile sparqx), but the work ethic again is unquestioned for him.  

I don't think it's as bad as Singletary because some people completely removed him from their draft boards afterwards because they thought draft capital won't be there anymore.  Turns out that was wrong.  I think everyone assumes Higgins is still a top100 pick, so people are just moving him down boards instead of off.  
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Was Chad Johnson that athletic? 4.58 at <200 pounds, 33 inch vert. This site gave his combine an F.  Also I don't have any data but prime Kobe sure looked like a great athlete to me. 

 
ZWK said:
Patrick Claybon updated his initial report on Higgins's 40 time:

Hand timing! Seems as though a rough average after talking to 20 or so scouts was in the mid 4.5s. so apologies for the “easily” above
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We'll see what draftscout puts. My guess is that it's not sub 4.5.
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Zyphros said:
Official numbers from pro-day

6'4 216

40 time - 4.54

Vertical Jump - 31 inches 

Broad Jump - 123 inches (10 feet 3 inches)

4.53 Shuttle
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Draftscout puts Tee Higgins's 40 time at 4.59.

 
There was rumor that the Bills decided to look to the trade market for a WR after being completely turned off by Higgins’s pro day.

 
Soulfly3 said:
i can get behind this...

higgins is FRESHLY just turned 21... and ONE day of measurables just cant erase what ive seen. for all we know he has a small injury that added tenths of seconds to his time and inches from his vert. i wouldve expected him or his agent to mention that tho, in his defense.

regardless... a cat who just turned 21, in the best conference in college, w sublime tape... i just cant bring myself to drop him anywhere near as far as you have, but i fully get your reasoning.

pre-draft i was focusing on 3 names, in this order (higgins, mims and jefferson) as I won the 1.6 pick in our ppr dynasty. i MAY move higgins to the back end of those 3 now. maybe.
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Seeing him play against the SEC big boys so often in the playoffs has confused me at times too but Clemson is in the ACC which is far removed from being the best conference in college. I agree with your overall point though. I won’t be dinging him that much for his combine.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
He was the only WR they were interested in?
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He may have been the only one that they thought would reasonably be available for them in the 1st that they had a preliminary 1st round pick grade on. Or, the rumor could be total garbage as well.

 
GroveDiesel said:
There was rumor that the Bills decided to look to the trade market for a WR after being completely turned off by Higgins’s pro day.
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Diggs over Higgins is a no-brainer right now, aside from Diggs's attitude. But they had to give up more than just a first to get him. 

 
NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah projects the Colts to select Clemson WR Tee Higgins with the 34th pick in his Day 2 mock draft.

This would be the Colts first selection of the draft, as Indianapolis traded their first-round pick to San Francisco in the offseason for Deforest Buckner. There's speculation that the Colts will move down, but if they stick in this spot, a player like HIggins makes an awful lot of sense. "Higgins has tremendous hands and is an A+ ball-winner on the second and third levels of the field," Jeremiah writes. Assuming the Bengals don't snap up Higgins, it shouldn't shock anyone if the 6-foot-4, 216-pound wideout is selected by the Colts Friday evening. 

SOURCE: NFL.com

Apr 24, 2020, 2:24 PM ET
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Bengals selected Clemson WR Tee Higgins with the No. 33 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.

Higgins (6’4/216) was a two-year starting outside receiver at Clemson who earned first-team All-ACC honors as a true junior. He posted a 59/1,167/13 receiving line, averaged the third-most yards per target (13.4) in the draft class, and came down with 15-of-23 deep targets for 565 yards, per PFF. The combination of his size, physicality, and contested catch ability make him a mismatch for undersized corners, but he needs to improve as a route runner to reach his ceiling since he lacks elite burst. At his Pro Day, he posted a 31-inch vertical and ran the 40-yard dash in 4.54 seconds, which included an abysmal 2nd-percentile 10-yard split. In the NFL, Higgins, 21, is likely headed for a WR2 role where he specializes in the red zone and on downfield shots in the NFL. The Bengals have drafted QB Joe Burrow and now Higgins to kick off their draft. Higgins' addition could be bad news for Auden Tate.

Apr 24, 2020, 7:16 PM ET
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Something to be said for the fact that the Bengals sat on that pick overnight and all the next day with time to think on it, and they didn’t trade it away, use it on another player, they took Higgins. 

 
The Athletic's Jay Morrison expects second-round rookie Tee Higgins to open the year in Cincinnati's starting lineup.

"Even with a truncated offseason limiting how quickly Higgins can get up to speed, I fully expect the rookie second-round pick to be in the starting lineup when the season opens," Morrison writes. The first pick of Day 2, Higgins (6'4/216) joined A.J. Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross, and Auden Tate among a clustered depth chart. 24-year-old Ross would be the odd man out in this scenario after joining the team as the No. 9 overall pick in 2017. The Bengals did reportedly shop Ross last offseason, but there's no denying his lid-lifting 4.22 40-time is still a trait that no other receiver brings to the table, Higgins included. We would still expect coach Zac Taylor to find a limited role for Ross as an explosive boom-or-bust option this upcoming season.

SOURCE: Jay Morrison on Twitter

Apr 28, 2020, 10:00 AM ET
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Pwingles said:
I expect Higgins to be the cooper kupp of this offense.
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Wouldn’t that continue to be Boyd? He’s the slot guy like Kupp. I don’t know if the Rams outside wrs are comp with the Bengals’. Green and Higgins are much taller than Cooks/Woods with different skillsets.

 
Cobbler1 said:
Wouldn’t that continue to be Boyd? He’s the slot guy like Kupp. I don’t know if the Rams outside wrs are comp with the Bengals’. Green and Higgins are much taller than Cooks/Woods with different skillsets.
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i wouldve assumed Woods/Boyd but w/e

 
Just drafted this guy at 1.13. I watch zero college football nowadays and only having passing knowledge of top players. But spent time looking at WR highlights of top guys this week, and having trouble understanding how he was sixth WR off the board?

What were the knocks on this guy? Top guy on a top team. Did people just get bored of him? And his situation is maybe the best of any WR in the draft - in one year he's poised to be the top guy for the #1 overall QB. Are people just overthinking things?

 
tombonneau said:
Just drafted this guy at 1.13. I watch zero college football nowadays and only having passing knowledge of top players. But spent time looking at WR highlights of top guys this week, and having trouble understanding how he was sixth WR off the board?

What were the knocks on this guy? Top guy on a top team. Did people just get bored of him? And his situation is maybe the best of any WR in the draft - in one year he's poised to be the top guy for the #1 overall QB. Are people just overthinking things?
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He was mainly the 6th guy because there were a ton of good prospects.  Good for the Bengals.  

Main knock is he he is an outside guy, down the field type, you don't see a ton of guys that long racking up PPR numbers. Not great separation skills, gonna be TD dependent. That's the knocks, anyway.

 
massraider said:
He was mainly the 6th guy because there were a ton of good prospects.  Good for the Bengals.  

Main knock is he he is an outside guy, down the field type, you don't see a ton of guys that long racking up PPR numbers. Not great separation skills, gonna be TD dependent. That's the knocks, anyway.
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Sounds like AJ Green. :)  

 
Higgins will flourish and IMO is a Top 3 WR type talent. He simply killed it in Clemson vs the best SEC competition. I think Burrow to Higgins will be combo much like Dalton to Green was for years. 

I think the Bengals made a great pick here.

 
Todem said:
Higgins will flourish and IMO is a Top 3 WR type talent. He simply killed it in Clemson vs the best SEC competition. I think Burrow to Higgins will be combo much like Dalton to Green was for years. 

I think the Bengals made a great pick here.
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In the 2019 season he played one game against SEC competition (LSU) and caught 3 passes on 10 targets and if memory serves had some rough moments in that game.  He did have a decent game the previous championship game against Alabama 3/81/1.  

 
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Drafting 12 I knew I had a choice of Mims, Aiyuk, Higgins or Pittman. I liked all of them to be honest and would have been happy with any, but watching their highlights, Higgins stood out. Longterm, his situation is outstanding as well as Burrow seems like the ideal QB for Higgins.

He is a great route runner and gets separation at the line, great hands, concentration and high points the ball, but I really love the RAC potential.

 
az_prof said:
Drafting 12 I knew I had a choice of Mims, Aiyuk, Higgins or Pittman. I liked all of them to be honest and would have been happy with any, but watching their highlights, Higgins stood out. Longterm, his situation is outstanding as well as Burrow seems like the ideal QB for Higgins.

He is a great route runner and gets separation at the line, great hands, concentration and high points the ball, but I really love the RAC potential.
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CONS: Needs to become more consistent at using his hands to defeat press at the LOS. For a bigger WR I’d like to see him more dominant as a stalk blocker. Although he hasn’t run a full route tree in the exposures I’ve evaluated, nothing in his skill set suggests that he cant. Needs to become more consistent at staying focused on the routine catches in the short to intermediate area.  

 
JohnnyU said:
In the 2019 season he played one game against SEC competition (LSU) and caught 3 passes on 10 targets and if memory serves had some rough moments in that game.  He did have a decent game the previous championship game against Alabama 3/81/1.  
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My mistake....I meant ACC competition. The ACC is a solid conference too in NCAA football. And Higgins will be a very good NFL WR.

 
Cobbler1 said:
Wouldn’t that continue to be Boyd? He’s the slot guy like Kupp. I don’t know if the Rams outside wrs are comp with the Bengals’. Green and Higgins are much taller than Cooks/Woods with different skillsets.
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Higgins is a starving man's AJ Green and was definitely drafted with an eye towards filling Green's spot, IMO.

I'm not a fan and think he's a strong bust probability.

Rail thin frame, long strider, limited quickness. Not as good in jump ball or acrobatic situations as Green.

Think he's going to be similar to Justin Hunter in the NFL. His deep speed is pretty good when given time to build up his stride, so he should hit some big plays here and there, but I don't think he's going to give you much in the short-intermediate game because he's not sudden enough to shed coverage.

 
EBF said:
Higgins is a starving man's AJ Green and was definitely drafted with an eye towards filling Green's spot, IMO.

I'm not a fan and think he's a strong bust probability.

Rail thin frame, long strider, limited quickness. Not as good in jump ball or acrobatic situations as Green.

Think he's going to be similar to Justin Hunter in the NFL. His deep speed is pretty good when given time to build up his stride, so he should hit some big plays here and there, but I don't think he's going to give you much in the short-intermediate game because he's not sudden enough to shed coverage.
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Time will tell. I am willing to give him 3 years to develop his pro game. We will check back in time. 

 
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