☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (2 Viewers)

9. DENZEL MIMS, Baylor (6-3, 207, 4.38, 1-2): Among his many achievements at the combine was a position-best 6.66 3-cone. “The 6.6 3-cone is crazy for a guy with that lever system,” said one scout. “He can really go up and make acrobatic plays on the ball. He showed at the Senior Bowl he can beat press coverage and get open at the top of routes. He’s better than Lamb and maybe better than Jeudy. He’s bigger, faster, longer. You’ve got a chance to really hit on Denzel Mims.” Mims was a three-year starter for a Baylor program that has never had a receiver make it big in the NFL. “He’s big, but I see a finesse guy who dropped too many balls in traffic,” a second scout said. “He’s got the height, weight, speed. I’ve seen too many guys with traits like that come in and fail out, and he doesn’t play special teams. I don’t see that kind of dog in him.” A three-year starter, he finished with 186 receptions for 2,925 (15.7) and 28 TDs. “He’s got vertical speed, he does have tracking skills and he understands how to use his size in the red zone,” said a third scout. “He’s an outside receiver. He’s going to need a lot of work on how to run routes. He has tight shoulders. Better high-ball catcher than low-ball catcher. More of a 400-meter guy. He’s got inconsistent hands. He’s going to need work on how to get off press. He’s just got average body control. I got him in the second round.” He’s from Daingerfield, Texas and posted a Wonderlic score of 17.

He supposedly played his junior year with a broken hand so that could explain the drops.  

ICON211 said:

He supposedly played his junior year with a broken hand so that could explain the drops.  

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The PFF guys had a good observation: He wasn't asked to do certain things, route-wise, at Baylor.

Went to Senior Bowl, was asked to do those things, and was basically uncoverable. 

That's not really the kind of anecdote that clinches a guy for me, but the leap for him to being  Mike Williams, or Courtland Sutton doesn't seem far off. 

Thanks for the info Mass! With the WRs being such a deep class, it seems like everyone is very critical of the top guys like Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs and maybe that's due to the fact that theres so many possibilities at the position this year. There is no Calvin Johnson type this year, but what does that mean for the Raiders?

A Case can be made for them to wait. And honestly, I would not be surprised if they did. Gruden surprised us with the Miller pick 2 years ago and Mayock passed on Allen and Oliver for Ferrell last year. Clearly, Mayock knows his stuff and he has his own draft board, my gut is telling me Mayock/Gruden is going to shock us all again.

I don't fall for all the QB nonsense that comes up every year, Carr is their guy. Highly unlikely scenario, but if Simmons or Okudah falls, Mayock runs to the virtual podium for one of them.

Now for guys who will likely be there.... Kinlaw is very interesting to me. If he's there, and the Jets take their WR at 11, do the Raiders surprise and go defense? Or take their #2 WR on their board? Or Henderson? We all know CB is a huge need for this team. 

Bottom line, my gut is telling me the Raiders will draft 2 WRs this year. But one of them won't be at 12. I see a surprise defensive pick or a trade down. Mayock is going to shock us all again folks! Hang on to your hats... I can't wait!

If I'm in the 3rd round, and I told you I could add speed to the backfield, speed to the WR room, a kickoff returner with 4.39 speed, and fill the 3rd RB role, is that something you might be interested in? 

I give you: Antonio Gibson.  

Only 77 carries as a back. He's not 15 carries a game, that's a big projection. 

Meaningless. If Jacobs is out, we're going RBBC anyway. IF you know of another player running under 4.3, running go routes and posts, returning kickoffs the distance, and breaking tackles out of the backfield, I need to know who it is.  Oh, and he's 6'2", 220. 

What I love about this move, with any of our 3rd rounders, is we can draft two WR in this draft, and STILL add speed to the offense, with a player who can do things no other guy on the roster can do. He's going to be a matchup problem against any LB and most safeties in the league. 

massraider said:

If I'm in the 3rd round, and I told you I could add speed to the backfield, speed to the WR room, a kickoff returner with 4.39 speed, and fill the 3rd RB role, is that something you might be interested in? 

I give you: Antonio Gibson.  

Only 77 carries as a back. He's not 15 carries a game, that's a big projection. 

Meaningless. If Jacobs is out, we're going RBBC anyway. IF you know of another player running under 4.3, running go routes and posts, returning kickoffs the distance, and breaking tackles out of the backfield, I need to know who it is.  Oh, and he's 6'2", 220. 

What I love about this move, with any of our 3rd rounders, is we can draft two WR in this draft, and STILL add speed to the offense, with a player who can do things no other guy on the roster can do. He's going to be a matchup problem against any LB and most safeties in the league. 

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BIG fan, I like him a lot.  I was going to mention him in one of my previous posts where I mentioned McFarland.

I think Mayock will have his board, trust his board and let the draft come to him. Remember, Mayock is huge on culture and getting players that are "foundational". That is why they signed Witten (Don't be surprised if they IR Moreau this year). He will favor those guys that not only interview well but have a history of being those locker room guys that love the weight room, tape room and love football. He will also favor guys from big college programs that win (see Clemson, Alabama and LSU heavy last year with 5 of the 9 coming ftom those schools). That all being said, above all Mayock trusts his study. The dude lives to watch tape which is why he was great as an analyst on TV. 

Beyond their board, I think the two areas of biggest priority is WR and CB. I think we will get two of each and very likely will takr one of each with our 1st rounders but only if the players Mayock likes is there. He will not go chasing reaches to fill needs. Early thinking was that 12 would be WR (I still think that is a high possibility if the draft falls the way most think but we know trades can change things quickly). Then a LB like Murray or Queen but with Kwiatowski I am thinking no. However, if an elite defender (Brown, Okudah,  Simmons) fall for some unlikely reason, they will jump and swing back for our #1 WR at 19. Less likely chance for Henderson or Chaisson. Chances are though we take our top WR of the future there. Then at 19 look at Henderson, Chaisson or another CB they like. I think they won't shy from a guy like Chaisson who can add speed and pass rush at LB but with Littleton they won't chase a LB. 

In the 3rd maybe we look at a G for the future or even a trade for Jackson. Muti possibly? Another WR and/or CB could be done as well. Perhaps a RB to fill.out the stable (I still wamt a bruiser and think Gruden does too). If they like the value maybe a DL or LB. 

I actually think that most teams will have their draft routine upended but this may be the perfect kind of draft for Mayock. I heard he has three big white boards with a bazillion magnetic nameplates on them in his living room. No matter what other teams "war rooms" will be disrupted. Hopefully that is an advantage to us. 

I am excited to see what Mayock does. 

Paul Butler claimed off waivers. That is Waller, Moreau, Carrier, Witten and O'Leary now for the Tight Ends. 

Peterman and David Sharpe signed their restrictive free agent tenders. 

Exclusive right tenders were signed by Carlson, S Dallin Leavitt, and CB DJ Killings. 

ICON211 said:

If you think Carr was great last year you didn't watch the games.  Only 13 QBs played 16 games last year and he was one of them so I would hope he would be top 10 in some of the categories you listed.  Stats are not the be all and end all.  Do you know who threw as many TDs as Carr and less interceptions?  Gardner Minshew.  If Carr was so great why were the Raiders 24th is points per game last year at 19.6?  You think he's great and some of us think he is merely average.  He will likely be the starter when the season opens up and I hope he is great this year.  Can we move on now?

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Life's little foibles: two people can see the same thing and come away with diametrically opposed opinions.

Me, I can't fathom how you watched the game and come away thinking Carr was meh. If you are expecting perfection, then you are unreasonable -- even the great Brady had 8 INTs last year (and 11 the year before that). QBs will make mistakes, and there are times where it's more on the fault of the receiver or simply a stellar play by an DB -- this is pro sports, after all, you don't get to this level being a scrub (with exceptions to prove the rule. Like Jamarcus.).

And the comparison to Minshew does not help your case, as Minshew was lights out for most of the year and the hottest QB in the league for a huge stretch. 

By all means let's move on. But to be fair, at least speaking for myself, the only reason I get on here drumming my drum on Carr is because of some of the unreasonable (IMO) hate I see him get here.

Re: Taking a bruising RB in the draft. Can’t Ingold be that guy if we need him? 

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Life's little foibles: two people can see the same thing and come away with diametrically opposed opinions.

Me, I can't fathom how you watched the game and come away thinking Carr was meh. If you are expecting perfection, then you are unreasonable -- even the great Brady had 8 INTs last year (and 11 the year before that). QBs will make mistakes, and there are times where it's more on the fault of the receiver or simply a stellar play by an DB -- this is pro sports, after all, you don't get to this level being a scrub (with exceptions to prove the rule. Like Jamarcus.).

And the comparison to Minshew does not help your case, as Minshew was lights out for most of the year and the hottest QB in the league for a huge stretch. 

By all means let's move on. But to be fair, at least speaking for myself, the only reason I get on here drumming my drum on Carr is because of some of the unreasonable (IMO) hate I see him get here.

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I have no problem with his interception total last year.  I have a problem with him being ultra conservative even when the situation calls for aggression.  Carr was not terrible last year, far from it, but he was also not great.  He had some very good games, but the overall body of work left something to be desired.  I was not necessarily comparing Carr to Minshew, but pointing out that stats can be manipulated and cherry picked and are not the sole measuring stick when evaluating a QB.  I don't think anyone would say Gardner Minshew is a great QB and as the year went on and teams got film on him he was less and less effective.  I really do not think I am being unreasonable although some disagree.  I think Carr is a good QB, but nowhere near elite and the position can definitely be upgraded.  If he was a true franchise QB this would not be a make or break year for him and I think most agree it is.

Chadstroma said:

Paul Butler claimed off waivers. That is Waller, Moreau, Carrier, Witten and O'Leary now for the Tight Ends. 

Peterman and David Sharpe signed their restrictive free agent tenders. 

Exclusive right tenders were signed by Carlson, S Dallin Leavitt, and CB DJ Killings. 

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https://overthecap.com/free-agency/las-vegas-raiders/

Click on the 2021 tab. We are going to see a lot of churning on the bottom of the roster.   If we can get their replacements on the team NOW, we can save money by not paying FA next year, we may even be in line for some late round comp picks.

Like me, and have no idea which CBs are good or not?

Thank me later

Great analysis in here guys.  Solid work.

For me, the Raiders still have lots of holes to fill, but the glaring need is still a #1 Wr.  We get that, and every other receiver/TE on the squad gets that much better.  I know the WR class is deep, very deep this year.  However, if either Jeudy or Lamb are available at 12 I think we would be crazy not to take him.  Either can be the instant number one we need that can really make a difference right away.  And we still have plenty of other picks to tinker with the rest of the needs.  I'd also probably add Ruggs to the list as well.  After that, and if none of these 3 guys are their, I would have no problem trading down or whatever.

Mayock and Gruden are clearly not conventional and certainly have surprised us in the past.  However, I think it is agreed that a solid WR is the top of our need list and Jeudy or Lamb fit perfectly if available.  Probably Ruggs as well.  I think we're more likely to see something crazy at 19 if we get our wish at 12.  Just my two cents. 

Silver & Black said:

Great analysis in here guys.  Solid work.

For me, the Raiders still have lots of holes to fill, but the glaring need is still a #1 Wr.  We get that, and every other receiver/TE on the squad gets that much better.  I know the WR class is deep, very deep this year.  However, if either Jeudy or Lamb are available at 12 I think we would be crazy not to take him.  Either can be the instant number one we need that can really make a difference right away.  And we still have plenty of other picks to tinker with the rest of the needs.  I'd also probably add Ruggs to the list as well.  After that, and if none of these 3 guys are their, I would have no problem trading down or whatever.

Mayock and Gruden are clearly not conventional and certainly have surprised us in the past.  However, I think it is agreed that a solid WR is the top of our need list and Jeudy or Lamb fit perfectly if available.  Probably Ruggs as well.  I think we're more likely to see something crazy at 19 if we get our wish at 12.  Just my two cents. 

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Anything from your guy?

massraider said:

Anything from your guy?

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No, this is all just my feeling.  Social distancing and restrictions on accessibility to the facilities really interfere with getting inside information.  He did tell me a while ago that there is no fear whatsoever that the stadium will be ready for the start of the season.  And this was before we started talking about a possible delay in starting the season.  I can't wait to see the new stadium!

Silver & Black said:

  I can't wait to see the new stadium!

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I drove by last week when they were testing the lights, it was pretty awesome. 

SDJohnny said:

I drove by last week when they were testing the lights, it was pretty awesome. 

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I saw video of the lights. Looks freakinh AWESOME. 

Love the "Death Star" nickname it has garnered.

joey said:

Re: Taking a bruising RB in the draft. Can’t Ingold be that guy if we need him? 

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Good Q but I don't know. Seemed to have some usage and success as a short yardage back inside the 10 for Wisconsin, but he's also a bit of a gadget, having come up in high school primarily as a QB and LB. His work as a pure FB has been great, likely due to his high football IQ and knowledge of midfield defender schemes based on experience. 

My take is that if we need more than a Crockett -- and I believe we do, we need more of a Lynch/Wheatley to be thunder to Jacobs' lightning -- we should look to see if we can nab a big back that has more of a natural trajectory and history of success in the role. 

ICON211 said:

I have no problem with his interception total last year.  I have a problem with him being ultra conservative even when the situation calls for aggression.  Carr was not terrible last year, far from it, but he was also not great.  He had some very good games, but the overall body of work left something to be desired.  I was not necessarily comparing Carr to Minshew, but pointing out that stats can be manipulated and cherry picked and are not the sole measuring stick when evaluating a QB.  I don't think anyone would say Gardner Minshew is a great QB and as the year went on and teams got film on him he was less and less effective.  I really do not think I am being unreasonable although some disagree.  I think Carr is a good QB, but nowhere near elite and the position can definitely be upgraded.  If he was a true franchise QB this would not be a make or break year for him and I think most agree it is.

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Peace, brother. Let's move on. Honestly don't know what we're debating anymore other than opinion -- I do think you assessment has been a little variable (is he average? is he good?) and I think some of the criticism I've seen (echoed here) of him being conservative is actually more on Gruden wanting to play ball control and move the chains football with a WCO geared towards audible and first look short/intermediate passing. 

Let's agree he isn't elite, and has a prove it year in front of him. My money is that with both a solid running game, a healthy line, and a credible WR1, we're going to see some amazing things from him this year. Let's see.

Silver & Black said:

Great analysis in here guys.  Solid work.

For me, the Raiders still have lots of holes to fill, but the glaring need is still a #1 Wr.  We get that, and every other receiver/TE on the squad gets that much better.  I know the WR class is deep, very deep this year.  However, if either Jeudy or Lamb are available at 12 I think we would be crazy not to take him.  Either can be the instant number one we need that can really make a difference right away.  And we still have plenty of other picks to tinker with the rest of the needs.  I'd also probably add Ruggs to the list as well.  After that, and if none of these 3 guys are their, I would have no problem trading down or whatever.

Mayock and Gruden are clearly not conventional and certainly have surprised us in the past.  However, I think it is agreed that a solid WR is the top of our need list and Jeudy or Lamb fit perfectly if available.  Probably Ruggs as well.  I think we're more likely to see something crazy at 19 if we get our wish at 12.  Just my two cents. 

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Agree 100%. I see all the conjecture of trading up/down with the 12th pick and I think that would be a colossal mistake if we truly thing either Jeudy or Lamb will be there. Anyone else there would be foregoing filling our biggest need.

Jeudy is the most polished NFL-ready WR1 given his route and separation. I am a little concerned about his drops, but I think there is no question he's ready to be a WR1 on day 1. Lamb I love for his physicality, catch radius, and willingess to fight for the ball. Also a bona fide WR1 and day one starter. Both of these guys fit our system like a hand in glove.

From there, there are so many other guys who have enormous talent, I just think the bust probability ticks up. Ruggs is a phenomenal player and isn't only about speed, but size and polish aren't on the same par as the others. I don't like the prospect of "waiting" or trading down to take a chance on a 2nd or 3rd round WR as I don't think others WRs are purely WR1s as much as Jeudy/Lamb.

Time will tell and there are countless examples of high first rounders who didn't pan and late round/UDFAs who become perennial pro-bowlers. You can't predict that, you need to go with what the tape shows. And right now, at this moment, Jeudy/Lamb are the cream of the crop and exactly what we need.

I've said this before but it's like the Mack draft -- Mack was a bit of a surprise in terms of dropping but he was a no-brainer. If Jeudy/Lamb look like they will be there, it's a similar no-brainer. We shouldn't get cute with trades or waiting on a deeper prospect (though I trust Mayock implicitly to find those gems). This is the year we need to fill our largest gap, and we have the perfect opportunity to do so. Anything other than Jeudy/Lamb would be a giant mistake IMO. Even if a guy like Henderson is there.

Now, the only wild card in this situation is if Okudah or Brown falls. I think you need to go Okudah. Brown vs Jeudy/Lamb is a real Sophie's Choice.

It makes perfect sense to the outsider looking in to nab Lamb/Jeudy if one is there at #12, and obviously, I wouldn't be mad if that happens. But I don't think it will.

If they go WR at #12, I think its Ruggs. They have a WR2 in Williams, the crafty slot guy in Renfrow and Agholor for depth. They need a flat out speed guy to blow the top off defenses. And wouldn't he be such an old school Raider WR? Everything I've read says he's more than just a speed demon, he's tough, and can run other routes besides a go route. Imagine him running a slant in Gruden's offense and taking it to the house like James Jett used to. I think everyone is talking Lamb/Jeudy because they are smoke screening Ruggs. Hes the guy everyone is after. It might play out that Ruggs won't even make it to the Raiders. I've been reading Denver's interest in trading up in front of NY to take him. But it's all conjecture and what types of WRs teams are looking for. And we all know Mayock has his own draft boards, and honestly, who knows who he targeting. 

Bruno2 said:

It makes perfect sense to the outsider looking in to nab Lamb/Jeudy if one is there at #12, and obviously, I wouldn't be mad if that happens. But I don't think it will.

If they go WR at #12, I think its Ruggs. They have a WR2 in Williams, the crafty slot guy in Renfrow and Agholor for depth. They need a flat out speed guy to blow the top off defenses. And wouldn't he be such an old school Raider WR? Everything I've read says he's more than just a speed demon, he's tough, and can run other routes besides a go route. Imagine him running a slant in Gruden's offense and taking it to the house like James Jett used to. I think everyone is talking Lamb/Jeudy because they are smoke screening Ruggs. Hes the guy everyone is after. It might play out that Ruggs won't even make it to the Raiders. I've been reading Denver's interest in trading up in front of NY to take him. But it's all conjecture and what types of WRs teams are looking for. And we all know Mayock has his own draft boards, and honestly, who knows who he targeting. 

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Remember, Jett had Tim Brown and then Jerry Rice in their later years playing with him.

Williams was a 4.42 40 which along with his height is plenty fast enough for that #2 to challenge defenses. I really do think Jeudy fits the Gruden vision of a #1 WR more than anyone else. His route running may be the best of the crop (not to mention he has speed, 10th fastest among receivers this year). My only concern is I don't know how well he is at getting off of press coverage and I know that is a huge thing that Mayock looks at for receivers. 

We don't need to go after the speedy guy- we need to go after the guy that can truly be a #1 NFL receiver. We are likely going to get another WR later too. If we really want to add more specific speed then Mims may be available in the 3rd. 

Chadstroma said:

Remember, Jett had Tim Brown and then Jerry Rice in their later years playing with him.

Williams was a 4.42 40 which along with his height is plenty fast enough for that #2 to challenge defenses. I really do think Jeudy fits the Gruden vision of a #1 WR more than anyone else. His route running may be the best of the crop (not to mention he has speed, 10th fastest among receivers this year). My only concern is I don't know how well he is at getting off of press coverage and I know that is a huge thing that Mayock looks at for receivers. 

We don't need to go after the speedy guy- we need to go after the guy that can truly be a #1 NFL receiver. We are likely going to get another WR later too. If we really want to add more specific speed then Mims may be available in the 3rd. 

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I agree with this.  Jeudy probably has the highest floor and has a very high ceiling.  Jeudy is the guy that will get open consistently.  The only thing I disagree with is I think Mims will be long gone by the third round.  

Well I should have been on a plane today, there now, and seeing the new stadium but instead - well, this.  We'll re-book for September and catch a game instead so that's a cool consolation prize.

Stoked for 5 days from now.  They should start the damn thing at 6:00 Eastern since no one is going to work anyway, would give them plenty of time to draw out pick timers, let communications break down, and keep the TV viewership tied up.

If we do take WR at 12 I want Lamb, he's far and away my preference to the others.

Hankmoody said:

Well I should have been on a plane today, there now, and seeing the new stadium but instead - well, this.  We'll re-book for September and catch a game instead so that's a cool consolation prize.

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2021?

Deamon said:

2021?

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Maybe, but 2020 first since I already have the ticket voucher.

Chadstroma said:

Remember, Jett had Tim Brown and then Jerry Rice in their later years playing with him.

Williams was a 4.42 40 which along with his height is plenty fast enough for that #2 to challenge defenses. I really do think Jeudy fits the Gruden vision of a #1 WR more than anyone else. His route running may be the best of the crop (not to mention he has speed, 10th fastest among receivers this year). My only concern is I don't know how well he is at getting off of press coverage and I know that is a huge thing that Mayock looks at for receivers. 

We don't need to go after the speedy guy- we need to go after the guy that can truly be a #1 NFL receiver. We are likely going to get another WR later too. If we really want to add more specific speed then Mims may be available in the 3rd. 

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Valid points... I just know, no matter who is in charge of this organization, they rarely seem to make a consensus first round pick. Mack and Cooper being the only exception in oh...., maybe the last 30-40 years.

Plus Mayock really seems to value character and intangibles over other traits. Granted, we have a one year sample to judge him. My point being, be prepared for the worst and hope for the best when it comes to the Raiders on draft day. 

Bruno2 said:

Valid points... I just know, no matter who is in charge of this organization, they rarely seem to make a consensus first round pick. Mack and Cooper being the only exception in oh...., maybe the last 30-40 years.

Plus Mayock really seems to value character and intangibles over other traits. Granted, we have a one year sample to judge him. My point being, be prepared for the worst and hope for the best when it comes to the Raiders on draft day. 

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Fair point going by the last 20 years.  However, last year's draft class looks really good.  I know it's only one draft for Mayock, but I really trust his judgement and I have no doubt they will be completely prepared.  Can't wait for Thursday.

ICON211 said:

Fair point going by the last 20 years.  However, last year's draft class looks really good.  I know it's only one draft for Mayock, but I really trust his judgement and I have no doubt they will be completely prepared.  Can't wait for Thursday.

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I’m with Bruno..this franchise hasn’t ceased to amazing me (in very bad ways) over the past 20 years so it’s gonna take more than one season of logical, sound team management and drafting for me to just assume they’ll do the "right thing". That said, I’m optimistic! (Said every sports fan ever in the preseason)

Been on the sidelines as the draft approaches, deferring to those who have more knowledge and insight about this year's prospects and that would be everyone.
I'll chime in with these points:
* Love most of the offseason acquisitions.
* I prefer Lamb to Jeudy. With Jeudy, everyone mentions how smooth and polished he is. Well, I thot Cooper was the most smooth and polished wideout to come along in years. Lamb is more mercurial no doubt but I say swing for the fences--he's a game-changer. I recently saw the tape when Moss got taken by the Vikings way back when and looking at it I said to myself, "How could so many teams have passed on this guy? I don't care if he was playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor. This guy is a difference maker."
* I'm guardedly optimistic about Gruden and Mayock's success in this year's draft. Last year appears to be a solid gold draft (maybe a once in a decade type thing) and I think that's creating too high of expectations this year.
* Glad to see the Carr debate still raging and everybody trying to change everybody else's minds when we know they're all pretty much made up.
As I've said, I'm not sold on Carr, whether it's not passing the eyeball test, throwing the ball away on fourth downs (still cringing), a less than 20-point per game average last year, etc, etc. but the team has bigger needs than a QB right now. Glad they landed Mariota so there's a reasonable facsimile of a QB should Carr go down or prove ineffective.
I think this will be his make or break year or there have to be serious reservations about Gruden's talent evaluation at his pet position. His mind may already be made up (I think it is) and we may find out in a few days. I personally think he's got his sights set on the kid from Clemson if Carr doesn't prove himself worthy.
* And speaking of Gruden, he needs to take it upon himself to make the halftime adjustments necessary so this team scores some points in the third and fourth quarters this year. (From my 12.15.2019 post: ...the Raiders have averaged 6.6 points a game in the second half--93 in 14 games. [They improved slightly in Games 15 and 16, scoring 10 and 12.]) I love Gruden and there are few coaches I'd rather see prowling the Raiders sidelines but that is just unacceptable.

Stay healthy, everyone!!

ICON211 said:

Fair point going by the last 20 years.  However, last year's draft class looks really good.  I know it's only one draft for Mayock, but I really trust his judgement and I have no doubt they will be completely prepared.  Can't wait for Thursday.

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I have faith in Mayock. Gruden not so much when it comes to the draft. How much influence does he have? Sometimes I get negative or cautiously optimistic around draft time because there are so many rumors and unknowns, especially this year. Now I'm seeing mocks and reports coming out that there's a good chance neither Jeudy or Lamb will be there at #12. Its possible Ruggs could be a Raider by default instead of design. 

I just have this strong gut feeling that either way Ruggs will be a Raider. 

Bruno2 said:

Valid points... I just know, no matter who is in charge of this organization, they rarely seem to make a consensus first round pick. Mack and Cooper being the only exception in oh...., maybe the last 30-40 years.

Plus Mayock really seems to value character and intangibles over other traits. Granted, we have a one year sample to judge him. My point being, be prepared for the worst and hope for the best when it comes to the Raiders on draft day. 

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McClain was a consensus pick too. 

The reality is there is a herd mentality among analysts and fans. The players start to get ranked as best to least and then people slot them in. No taking into account system or culture etc. 

The Raiders signaled a "surprise pick" last year for Clelin ahead of the draft. I remember reading those reports. Jacobs and Abram were not out of line at all. 

Once you get out of the first there are so many moving parts it is silly to guess who is taking who. Heck, even the 1st round has it's trades and picks that are surprising. Teams go to great lengths to hide their true intentions. 

For me Mayock proved to me last draft that whatever he does, I defer to him over my own judgement. 

ICON211 said:

I agree with this.  Jeudy probably has the highest floor and has a very high ceiling.  Jeudy is the guy that will get open consistently.  The only thing I disagree with is I think Mims will be long gone by the third round.  

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Most likely he will be. I am not a fan of his. Seems limited in his route tree. If you need a go route guy, great, but he doesn't seem like someone who will prosper into a round 1 or 2 worthy pick to me. (That being said, I had the same opinion of DK Metcalf so what the hell do I know?)

ICON211 said:

Fair point going by the last 20 years.  However, last year's draft class looks really good.  I know it's only one draft for Mayock, but I really trust his judgement and I have no doubt they will be completely prepared.  Can't wait for Thursday.

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I trusted Mayock in terms of talent evaluation when they announced. Everyone has some misses but he never was swayed by popular opinion and knew what he was doing when it vame to breaking draft prospects down. No doubt. I waa only worried about all the "managerial" front office stuff with him but the contracts have been solid and I am very happy with him as GM. 

Bruno2 said:

I have faith in Mayock. Gruden not so much when it comes to the draft. How much influence does he have? Sometimes I get negative or cautiously optimistic around draft time because there are so many rumors and unknowns, especially this year. Now I'm seeing mocks and reports coming out that there's a good chance neither Jeudy or Lamb will be there at #12. Its possible Ruggs could be a Raider by default instead of design. 

I just have this strong gut feeling that either way Ruggs will be a Raider. 

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If neither Juedy or Lamb are there at 12, then I think the chances are high a top ten type defensive talent is there and would be happy taking that guy and looking for WR at 19. There is a talent drop off from Juedy/Lamb and Ruggs is on the upper side of the next group of guys that is deep. 

I think it is possible someone falls in love with either guy and trades with someone ahead of us to take them expecting us to go WR. 

As for Mayock and Gruden. Last year, Gruden wanted to trade up to take Jacobs. Mayock trusted their board and stayed put. They got Jacobs. I think Mayock has the working relationship and trust from Gruden that if he says "no", then Gruden is on board.

Hankmoody said:

Maybe, but 2020 first since I already have the ticket voucher.

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Uhhh... good luck with that.

Anyone super paranoid about other WR needy teams like DEN and SF trading up to leapfrog over us?

I mean, if one or both do just to have a crack at Lamb/Jeudy before the Jets do at #11, could mean that a blue chip D falls to us, which would be great.

That said, I'd hate to miss out on what I feel would be low risk bona fide WR1 at that spot in the draft.

Going to be really interesting to see how this all shakes out, as ever.

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Anyone super paranoid about other WR needy teams like DEN and SF trading up to leapfrog over us?

I mean, if one or both do just to have a crack at Lamb/Jeudy before the Jets do at #11, could mean that a blue chip D falls to us, which would be great.

That said, I'd hate to miss out on what I feel would be low risk bona fide WR1 at that spot in the draft.

Going to be really interesting to see how this all shakes out, as ever.

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I think Denver may move up in front of us for Jeudy, but from everything I have read SF is looking to trade down.  Who knows if that's accurate though given how much misinformation teams put out right before the draft.  I also think there is a better chance the Jets go tackle at 11 if they stay put now.  As you said if Jeudy and Lamb do go before us then maybe one of the top defensive guys slides to 12.  It also seems like there is an increasing chance Okudah and Henderson go top 10.

Chadstroma said:

If neither Juedy or Lamb are there at 12, then I think the chances are high a top ten type defensive talent is there and would be happy taking that guy and looking for WR at 19. There is a talent drop off from Juedy/Lamb and Ruggs is on the upper side of the next group of guys that is deep. 

I think it is possible someone falls in love with either guy and trades with someone ahead of us to take them expecting us to go WR. 

As for Mayock and Gruden. Last year, Gruden wanted to trade up to take Jacobs. Mayock trusted their board and stayed put. They got Jacobs. I think Mayock has the working relationship and trust from Gruden that if he says "no", then Gruden is on board.

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Yes.

In terms of draft strength, Raider fans have to be happy.  WR and CB all over the place. The list of players I would like at 12 is pretty long:

Simmons, Kinlaw, Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs, Henderson, Tua.

At 19, Jefferson, Terrell, Johnson, the LSU CB.....

If Dolphins take Herbert, we need to consider Tua might be there. 

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Anyone super paranoid about other WR needy teams like DEN and SF trading up to leapfrog over us?

I mean, if one or both do just to have a crack at Lamb/Jeudy before the Jets do at #11, could mean that a blue chip D falls to us, which would be great.

That said, I'd hate to miss out on what I feel would be low risk bona fide WR1 at that spot in the draft.

Going to be really interesting to see how this all shakes out, as ever.

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Hearing rumbling that Denver wants to move to 9-11 spots and the most obvious reason to do that is to grab a WR. Of course, you always need a willing partner.

If the WR they want isn't there at 12 does Gruden pull rank and make a draft day trade for OBJ? Just throwing it out there...

Chadstroma said:

Hearing rumbling that Denver wants to move to 9-11 spots and the most obvious reason to do that is to grab a WR. Of course, you always need a willing partner.

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If I had Drew Lock, who never saw a deep pass he ddidn't like, I would be thinking about Ruggs.

Personally, i think Lamb or Jeudy works better with Sutton, but that's just me

Regarding my Tua man love, it seems mad they Chargers would pass on him, but if ever a team was scared by medicals, it would be the Chargers.

Deamon said:

Uhhh... good luck with that.

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Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, are you just being coy?  Do you have some kind of Calvin Johnson type inside info to share?  All indications are the stadium will be ready on time and host games in 2020.

Hankmoody said:

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, are you just being coy?  Do you have some kind of Calvin Johnson type inside info to share?  All indications are the stadium will be ready on time and host games in 2020.

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Good memory on the Calvin thing.  No, I have no inside info on this one.

All indications are that there will not be fans at games in September.  I would be absolutely shocked if they're filling NFL Stadiums in September.  Don't need to fill a Raiders thread with Covid chat, hence why I didn't get into it too much, but the odds are higher than 50% that you won't be able to watch a live NFL game in September.

Bruno2 said:

If the WR they want isn't there at 12 does Gruden pull rank and make a draft day trade for OBJ? Just throwing it out there...

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If AB situation didn't happen, Yes.  Since it did, No.

Deamon said:

Good memory on the Calvin thing.  No, I have no inside info on this one.

All indications are that there will not be fans at games in September.  I would be absolutely shocked if they're filling NFL Stadiums in September.  Don't need to fill a Raiders thread with Covid chat, hence why I didn't get into it too much, but the odds are higher than 50% that you won't be able to watch a live NFL game in September.

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10-4, that's a bit far out to be speculating either way.  I was using "September" mostly metaphorically as "2020" in particular before the new travel requirements/ID thing comes into play but point taken, nothing is yet guaranteed and those tickets might have to be used elsewhere.   We've discussed a golf trip to Arizona too.

Thinking about the concept of Lamb vs Jeudy.

I wonder if Lamb offers so much more flexibility, outside or slot, that taking him allows the team more options later in the draft. 

If the Raiders take Jeudy, and there's a sexy slot WR later, do they pass because they took Jeudy? Lamb has a lot of sideline catches that make you realize he is solid out there. And he clearly has the traits for the slot. Maybe not the route runner Jeudy is YET, but this isn't Tee Higgins out there.  

If we double up at WR, maybe Lamb offers more options with the later WR?  

massraider said:

Thinking about the concept of Lamb vs Jeudy.

I wonder if Lamb offers so much more flexibility, outside or slot, that taking him allows the team more options later in the draft. 

If the Raiders take Jeudy, and there's a sexy slot WR later, do they pass because they took Jeudy? Lamb has a lot of sideline catches that make you realize he is solid out there. And he clearly has the traits for the slot. Maybe not the route runner Jeudy is YET, but this isn't Tee Higgins out there.  

If we double up at WR, maybe Lamb offers more options with the later WR?  

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I doubt you will have your choice of the 2 at pick 12.

massraider said:

Thinking about the concept of Lamb vs Jeudy.

I wonder if Lamb offers so much more flexibility, outside or slot, that taking him allows the team more options later in the draft. 

If the Raiders take Jeudy, and there's a sexy slot WR later, do they pass because they took Jeudy? Lamb has a lot of sideline catches that make you realize he is solid out there. And he clearly has the traits for the slot. Maybe not the route runner Jeudy is YET, but this isn't Tee Higgins out there.  

If we double up at WR, maybe Lamb offers more options with the later WR?  

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I don't think we get a choice. We will be lucky to have one of them available to us at all at this point. 

As for slot/outside. My understanding is both can play both (but I am not definitive on that, just reading scouting reports). 

Taking individual actual players out and talking position. We meed outside guys. Renfrow is a slot guy. Aghlor was supposed to be able to play both but was ineffective on the outside but played well in slot. Renfrow is a Raider for a while whether Aghlor sticks or not. We need that other guy on the outside opposite of Williams to open up this offense. 

Deamon said:

I doubt you will have your choice of the 2 at pick 12.

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I have no strong conviction that both will be there. Just wondering about team fit and preference. 

I don't really take seriously anyone's else's strong take about whether they'll be there or not. There'll be 30 players by round 4 that none of us will believe fall to a certain spot. 

Seems just as likely only Ruggs goes before them as anything else.

massraider said:

I have no strong conviction that both will be there. Just wondering about team fit and preference. 

I don't really take seriously anyone's else's strong take about whether they'll be there or not. There'll be 30 players by round 4 that none of us will believe fall to a certain spot. 

Seems just as likely only Ruggs goes before them as anything else.

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I would not say "JUST" as likely Ruggs goes before them as anything else.

If you think that is an equal possibility, there's a lot of money for you to make on that prop bet.