One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Unfortunately you can’t add all the players Chicago can’t sign over the next 5 years.
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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
That is the Raiders narrative. Mack really didn’t have choice.. They could have franchised him. The team caved.One said:
SDJohnny
Footballguy
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/raiders-undrafted-free-agent-tracker-001105489.html
The Raiders are set to start playing in Las Vegas during the 2020 season after decades playing in Oakland.
They'll give a kid connected to both markets a shot to make the squad.
They signed hybrid linebacker/safety Javin White out of UNLV as an undrafted free agent on Saturday, the football program confirmed on social media. White is an Oakland native who went to McClymonds High and played linebacker, safety and cornerback during his career with the Rebels.
He stands 6-foot-3 and 205 pounds and could've been a late-round pick in the recently concluded NFL Draft, but got to pick is destination and chose to stay close to school. In fact, both the Raiders and UNLV will start playing in the brand-new Allegiant Stadium being built just off the Las Vegas Strip.
White is one of a few undrafted players to agree on terms with the Raiders in undrafted free agency. The Silver and Black don't have many spots available, they'll add several in this frenzied time right after the NFL draft. Bookmark our Raiders undrafted free agent track for updates on new additions to the squad.
Here are the undrafted players committed to joining the Raiders:
-- LB/S Javin White, UNLV (UNLV Football)
-- WR George Mariner, Utah State (Houston Chronicle)
-- LS Liam McCullough, Ohio State (Columbus Dispatch)
-- DT Mike Panasiuk, Michigan State (NFL Draft Diamonds)
I'm not going to pretend to know anything bout these guys.
The Raiders are set to start playing in Las Vegas during the 2020 season after decades playing in Oakland.
They'll give a kid connected to both markets a shot to make the squad.
They signed hybrid linebacker/safety Javin White out of UNLV as an undrafted free agent on Saturday, the football program confirmed on social media. White is an Oakland native who went to McClymonds High and played linebacker, safety and cornerback during his career with the Rebels.
He stands 6-foot-3 and 205 pounds and could've been a late-round pick in the recently concluded NFL Draft, but got to pick is destination and chose to stay close to school. In fact, both the Raiders and UNLV will start playing in the brand-new Allegiant Stadium being built just off the Las Vegas Strip.
White is one of a few undrafted players to agree on terms with the Raiders in undrafted free agency. The Silver and Black don't have many spots available, they'll add several in this frenzied time right after the NFL draft. Bookmark our Raiders undrafted free agent track for updates on new additions to the squad.
Here are the undrafted players committed to joining the Raiders:
-- LB/S Javin White, UNLV (UNLV Football)
-- WR George Mariner, Utah State (Houston Chronicle)
-- LS Liam McCullough, Ohio State (Columbus Dispatch)
-- DT Mike Panasiuk, Michigan State (NFL Draft Diamonds)
I'm not going to pretend to know anything bout these guys.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Sorry for quoting my own post, but I'm an idiot.
I think I get what he's saying.
Raiders were 11th in yards last year but 24th in points per game.
We aren't taking on Ruggs to emulate the Chiefs speed. We are taking him on as his speed will help improve our ability to score points.
Even the best Ds had trouble slowing up the Chiefs' explosive offense. I think BAL had the same advantage - they just piled on points.
The way to beat these teams that are the cream of the AFC isn't with the best D, but with more firepower on O to match step for step.
We get our points closer to our yards and we can be just as deadly of a team to face. Icing on the cake is if the D continues to come together as well.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
And what is the one HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between Baltimore and KC and their "explosive" and "pile on points" offense and the Raiders' more pedestrian production?
This season is put up or shut up time for Derek Carr and all his backers.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
No question that they added firepower. We should see more dynamic play out of the offense. But I am curious what is put up look like? Obviously it isn't completion percentage, yardage, TD/INT ratio, etc. Can we agree on what that looks like now?And what is the one HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between Baltimore and KC and their "explosive" and "pile on points" offense and the Raiders' more pedestrian production?
This season is put up or shut up time for Derek Carr and all his backers.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
We are a very young team. I am guessing our starting lineups to look like this (based on a 3 WR set and Nickel base):
QB- Carr
RB- Jacobs
WR- Williams
WR- Ruggs
WR- Renfrow (slot)
TE- Waller
LT- Miller
LG- Incognito
C- Hudson
RG- Jackson
RT- Brown
Key moving parts: Richard, Bowden, Edwards, Agholar
LDE- Ferrell
LDT- Collins
RDT- Hankins
RDE- Crosby
MLB- Kwiatkoski
OLB- Littleton
CB- Mullen
CB- Arnette
CB- Joyner (Nickel/Slot)
SS- Abram
FS- Randall
Key moving parts: Nassib, Hurst, Key and Harris
QB- Carr
RB- Jacobs
WR- Williams
WR- Ruggs
WR- Renfrow (slot)
TE- Waller
LT- Miller
LG- Incognito
C- Hudson
RG- Jackson
RT- Brown
Key moving parts: Richard, Bowden, Edwards, Agholar
LDE- Ferrell
LDT- Collins
RDT- Hankins
RDE- Crosby
MLB- Kwiatkoski
OLB- Littleton
CB- Mullen
CB- Arnette
CB- Joyner (Nickel/Slot)
SS- Abram
FS- Randall
Key moving parts: Nassib, Hurst, Key and Harris
ICON211
Footballguy
It means those things, but it also means being more aggressive and scoring more points. I hope he can put it all together.
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
I have been a Raider fan since 1983. I have suffered as much as any fan.
#### being bitter, I am excited.
#### being bitter, I am excited.
massraider
Footballguy
All day.
I'm a fan to........enjoy myself. Does that sound stupid? I will knock bad decisions, hope that bad players are replaced by good ones, but I'm always gonna err on the side of optimism.
Especially in relation to the draft. I mean, look at these past threads to see all the picks people were wrong about.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
For Baltimore, the big difference was having a QB that was 6th overall in rushing.And what is the one HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between Baltimore and KC and their "explosive" and "pile on points" offense and the Raiders' more pedestrian production?
This season is put up or shut up time for Derek Carr and all his backers.
For KC all year, it was having multiple receivers (Kelce, Hill, who could add to a quick strike attack that allows them to score quickly and successively and often unanswered) and a QB whose skill set in making ridiculous throws on the run when flushed or on designed roll-outs.
In both cases, you have a QB who is definitely making a difference. Yet both are unique in that they rely on talent at QB that no other team really has -- even traditionally elite QBs (Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, etc.).
If your point that Carr should be as effective of a runner as Lamar is or be ridiculous on the run as Mahomes is, then the argument is faulty as you are asking of Carr what literally no other QBs in the league (and arguably ever) can do.
Even then, Lamar and Mahomes don't do it alone. Mahomes has one of the most talented collective group in terms of offensive skill-positions. BAL had a fantastic D to give Lamar great down and distance. KC was phenomenal in 3rd down conversions -- using scheme to create mismatches and misdirection to get the ball in the right player's hands -- and were 3rd overall and consistent all year. Guess who was #1? BAL -- and also were consistent through the year in this regard.
You are not going to get any argument that with better talent, Carr needs to put up. The D is stronger too which should also help.
But 1) the argument that Carr isn't doing what literally no other QBs can do not named Mahomes and Jackson can do is weak, and 2) the divide between Carr supporters and detractors here -- and everywhere -- is well known. And discussion around it is largely unproductive because neither side is going to change their mind.
Let's move on already.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
And what is the one HUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between Baltimore and KC and their "explosive" and "pile on points" offense and the Raiders' more pedestrian production?
This season is put up or shut up time for Derek Carr and all his backers.
Icon, succinctly, and Stompin' Tom, not quite as succinctly, answered about as well as I could. I'd just add keep plays alive more with his feet, not give up on plays too early, not be seemingly locked in on one receiver (especially now with what appears to be a myriad of improved weapons and Ruggs to open things up). And I'd sacrifice some percentage and TD/INT ratio to make some plays downfield.
Speaking to Tom's statement about
* Baltimore and KC's third down conversion rate, I'd give the largest piece of credit for that to Jackson and Mahomes by doing what I pointed out in the paragraph above.
* Carr being as as good as Jackson and Mahomes...of course not. The only thing I'd ask for a little more from Carr in regards to those two is to make something out of nothing a little more. Right now, if the first read for Carr isn't open, the play likely will go nowhere. With the other two, that's when things canreally get good.
* moving on already. No chance. Now things will really heat up with the weapons added. We've only been served the appetizer so far. Now it's time for the main course.
I'm looking forward to it. I think the additional weapons will make Carr better. I just hope it's enough to vault em into the playoffs and give Gruden a clear picture once and for all if this is the guy he's going forward with.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
gruden must be after trevor lawrence. 
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am really liking the Arnette pick the more I look into it.
Apparently he played with a broken bone in his hand.
Also, per Cris Carter (who has a close relationship with him) that he had a hamstring and back issue at the combine. That does explain why I keep seeing scouting reports that say something along the lines of "his tape is good but his 40 was 4.56" AND apparently he was faster than Terry McLaurin as a red shirt sophomore (McLaurin posted a 4.35 40 at the combine in 2019).
Really the only consistent knock I see on him from various scouting reports is the 40 time. That may have been a blessing for us in that he fell to us. It also makes sense because I know that Mayock devalues combine measurable and is more concerned with the tap the player has where as a lot of non-NFL 'experts' really focus on those measures we get. High 40 drives their value up. Low 40 drives it down.
There is no doubt about it, they want to do a lot of press coverage both of those CB's excelled at press and harassing WR's at the line. They are both fighters.
Apparently he played with a broken bone in his hand.
Also, per Cris Carter (who has a close relationship with him) that he had a hamstring and back issue at the combine. That does explain why I keep seeing scouting reports that say something along the lines of "his tape is good but his 40 was 4.56" AND apparently he was faster than Terry McLaurin as a red shirt sophomore (McLaurin posted a 4.35 40 at the combine in 2019).
Really the only consistent knock I see on him from various scouting reports is the 40 time. That may have been a blessing for us in that he fell to us. It also makes sense because I know that Mayock devalues combine measurable and is more concerned with the tap the player has where as a lot of non-NFL 'experts' really focus on those measures we get. High 40 drives their value up. Low 40 drives it down.
There is no doubt about it, they want to do a lot of press coverage both of those CB's excelled at press and harassing WR's at the line. They are both fighters.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The reasons for the slow time may be good but showing up at the combine with back and hammy issues is concerning. Hopefully, he gets and stays healthy so we see what we have when football starts up this year.
joey
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
I think my (re-posted) last post speaks to his "I refuse to not show up and compete" attitude and likely a reason why there was no keeping him away m the combine.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I love the mental frame of mind on that but then that needs to managed by someone who knows when to tell him to shut it down.
joey
Footballguy
Better this than the opposite. Maybe him and Abrams will transform the defensive backfield in a strength, both physically and mentally.
####, what do I know. Just win, baby!
LawFitz
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Wolverine.
Same small size but a Wolverine is more vicious and aggressive. Amik seems like he has a Napoleon complex, he doesn't care about size he will beat you down.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
He gives up height against most WRs and will give up a lot of height against many. He has the skills though. The Raiders certainly tried to improve the secondary. Can’t wait to see how this works out.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
At the biggest job interview of your life is not the time to shut it down. Just like at a playoff game or win-to-get-in game. I want these guys on my team.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I've been skeptical of Gruden and Mayock "building a team based on character" instead of potentially focusing talent and team fit. Sometimes it seemed we were looking for and weighting more heavily a sob story in a player's past that showed them overcome adversity in their lives, that they needed a second chance, etc. over pure BPA skill on the field.
We have yet to see it fully blossom, but I have come around to the way Gruden and Mayock are thinking about this. Beyond the fulffier aspects of it, character matters in building cohesive team chemistry. It's something we've lacked for years -- a shared identity, accountability, and everyone acting as a leader and holding each other to a high bar.
The more I see the complete turnaround in tenor and tone from vets like Incognito who have become true team leaders; the more I hear guys like Crosby, Ferrell, Renfrow, Abram, and others speak; and now listening to Arnette and other draft picks -- the more I think that in addition to raw individual talent, character may actually really help drive success.
It sets a tone and a culture for the entire team. You can build around core foundational leaders --vets and rooks alike -- who walk, talk, and breathe teamwork and accountability, who can help support each other as a team, and who stand tall and defend what it means to be a Raider. We see this in the ways guys came together so readily and easily (Salt & Pepa!), and in how excited they get for each other on the field.
The phrase "Commitment to Excellence" used to mean something. Something much more than simple winning.
And I love how we're purposefully rebuilding around character to recapture this commitment and forge an identity and culture.
We have yet to see it fully blossom, but I have come around to the way Gruden and Mayock are thinking about this. Beyond the fulffier aspects of it, character matters in building cohesive team chemistry. It's something we've lacked for years -- a shared identity, accountability, and everyone acting as a leader and holding each other to a high bar.
The more I see the complete turnaround in tenor and tone from vets like Incognito who have become true team leaders; the more I hear guys like Crosby, Ferrell, Renfrow, Abram, and others speak; and now listening to Arnette and other draft picks -- the more I think that in addition to raw individual talent, character may actually really help drive success.
It sets a tone and a culture for the entire team. You can build around core foundational leaders --vets and rooks alike -- who walk, talk, and breathe teamwork and accountability, who can help support each other as a team, and who stand tall and defend what it means to be a Raider. We see this in the ways guys came together so readily and easily (Salt & Pepa!), and in how excited they get for each other on the field.
The phrase "Commitment to Excellence" used to mean something. Something much more than simple winning.
And I love how we're purposefully rebuilding around character to recapture this commitment and forge an identity and culture.
joey
Footballguy
I don’t follow the Pats at all (besides universally hating them since the Tuck Rule) but this seems to be the way the Pats built a dynasty. More about character and "fit" than best athlete or physical specimen. I don’t know, maybe some folks with more knowledge of the Pats can see if my parallel holds any water.
Either way, liking Mayock and Gruden's approach for the most part, and benefit of the doubt on whether this years draft picks work out.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
FWIW, I never got the feeling the Pats has any other culture besides BB's "My way or the highway." Always seemed more geared towards fear than camaraderie. Winning and success certainly helps build that
Not dismissing any existence of culture on the Pats, but I think their dynasty is more due to:
- GOAT under center
- One of if not the brightest and cagiest (begrudgingly saying this) HC of all time (gameplan and drafting)
- instituting a system and getting the right "types" to fit key roles
- playing sound money ball by being willing to walk away from high ticket single players if their cap space can buy you multiple newer guys who fit the same profile/role needed
- cheating -- joking (sort of)
I might be wrong and/or biased -- Pats definitely held a high bar and earned their success without question. I just never saw the players engage and interact as a true "team" as opposed to being more of a cult around BB and TB.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I agree to this. You have had a history of players that have bought into the Cheatriot Way. (it appears that that has worn down now though as it looks like Brady left because of Belicheat and Gronk retired because of it as well) Once you have an established culture and really bring back "Commitment to Excellence" as not a slogan but how the organization operates then you can do as the Cheatriots did and bring in guys that may not fit that mold (perhaps more accurate to say that help build that mold?) but the talent is willing to follow the mold because of the organizational culture that has been built there.
People poke fun of Mayock and Clemson but I think that Swinney recruits with a similar eye to these high character guys that bring positive structure and energy to an organizational culture. On top of that, Clemson has been a winning program with high talent. It makes sense to keep going to that well if the water tastes sweet.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
There is always culture in an organization. I think it has 'worked' for a number of years because they won. The players were bought in and they players they brought in were peer pressured to accept the 'Patriot Way'. I mean, that damn slogan is a hallmark of branding your organizational culture. Branding helps you communicate in easily understood ways of what is expected of you if you are a part of that organization. I agree with you that the 'Patriot Way' is a nice translation to "do it like Belicheat wants"
Yes, it takes more than culture to win in the NFL. Your list is true and good but honestly, if you have as harsh and demanding an organizational culture as we believe Belicheat installs and maintains (with evidence that if finally drove Brady out even after 20 years of constantly and annoyingly winning and one of, if not the best, TE to prematurely retire then come out of retirement to play for another team) you have to the organizational body to have believed in it or it would have fallen apart a long time ago. Winning goes a hell of a long way to helping people believe in it.
(I was working on and about 3/4th the way through a Masters degree in Organizational Leadership so this discussion is right up my nerd alley)
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Swinging back to the end of the draft. Does anyone know anything about our undrafted free agent signings? (Man, I hope Eberle is good so we can eject Carlson)
WR George Mariner
TE Nick Bowers
DL Mike Panasiuk
LB Javin White
CB Madre Harper
LS Liam McCullough
K Dominik Eberle
WR George Mariner
TE Nick Bowers
DL Mike Panasiuk
LB Javin White
CB Madre Harper
LS Liam McCullough
K Dominik Eberle
ICON211
Footballguy
Agreed. Carlson is not good at all. Wish they would have signed Rodrigo Blankenship from Georgia.
joey
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
And they are in Vegas now. Hard-working gym rats seems like a good move.
I'm interested to see where their other team-building moves head.
- Length at their DEs, down to Nassib as a FA. If you are looking at edge guys the Raiders might be interested in, don't bother with those 6'3", 245 lb guys.
- The bunching of TEs. I think Witten is here for one season, to be an influence on Witten and Waller. I would bet money the Raiders stash a TE on the PS, maybe IR a vet. I'm in favor of this move. I think they will be look
- Bigger. Mayock and Gruden mentioned bigger since day, through this draft.
I tend to agree with this. Al Davis and the Raiders lost their mystique in the 2000's because they stopped valuing winning culture and character. Focusing on lawsuits over the product on the field (which Al had admitted to, or he would've drafted Marino.) Drafting purely on height, weight and speed (DHB) without a care for that player's character and dedication to the sport and team (JaMarcus).
To make things worse, free agents were brought in and treated like hired "assassins ", like Moss, Sapp and Seymour to name a few. Sadly, these guys view their time with the Raiders as the "dark time" in their careers. Moss and Sapp have publicly stated their time with Oakland was a terrible experience. But that's what happens when you chase the money. All winning culture was lost. Gruden knew it, and saw the implosion of a once great franchise and I commend him for taking on the challenge. Because changing the culture of a losing organization has to be one of the hardest things to do in the world of big money sports.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bipSHe2YZI8
Every Arnette target, 2019. Boom. God love YouTube.
God also love Twitter. Check THIS out:
https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1256400326732611587
Discuss.
Every Arnette target, 2019. Boom. God love YouTube.
God also love Twitter. Check THIS out:
https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1256400326732611587
Discuss.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Raiders Think Arnette Was a Steal, Not a Reach
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp-raiders/nfl/raiders/news/raiders-believe-arnette-was-a-steal
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp-raiders/nfl/raiders/news/raiders-believe-arnette-was-a-steal
Chadstroma
Footballguy
There is a lot of evidence that he is faster than that 40 and if so I don't see why he wouldn't be considered a 1st round CB and with the Raiders realizing that (I have read reports that other scouts had their own clocks in him faster too) then trading down would be a huge risk. You have to expect other teams are doing their homework too and not following the mob on who should go where (which are proven wrong each and every draft).
Chadstroma
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow. Bless that for democratizing information. Guy could have had his life totally altered by that. I'll bet he did have his life altered because of some official timer innocuously-seeming yet horrendous ####-up.massraider said:
rockaction
Footballguy
Maybe they beeped and he just didn't hear or heard late. That video is obvious that the clock is movin' and he...he ain't.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Which in football means poop.
This is why Mayock kicked rear last draft and why the more I look at their picks the more I like them. He does his homework. He LOVES watching film. He does NOT care what others say or think he trusts his eyes.
This is also another reason I don't put that much weight into 40 times like everyone else does, whether for good or bad. If you are a track star and marginal football player you end up a first day pick while those who suck at track but can ball end up falling. Then all these Monday morning GM's think they know it all because they read a report on a players combine performance.
rockaction
Footballguy
I would caution you that a big reason Henry Ruggs III is your spanking new addition to the club is precisely because of his forty time, in addition to other qualities.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am not saying speed doesn't matter. I am saying that the 40 time as a way to measure speed has too much emphasis.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i like the pick. love that complication of highlights. the 40 timing can go either way. he was slow to react (that time), most likely. or, the time started early, not very likely. a 10th of a second in game time, won't matter that much IMHO.massraider said:
Chadstroma
Footballguy
That is the thing. The 40 is a track thing. The proper stance and mechanics of a 40 yard dash have nothing to do with football. Whether it was a quick clock or slow response, neither show his football speed which is what really matters.
massraider
Footballguy
In the absence of anything better, I get why it's so important. Tech should really have improved this. We cant get Olympic testing at the Combine?
Annoying.
And really, 40 times are overrated for some positions. WR, for example.
Cornerback is NOT one of those positions, lol. There's a minimum you have to run, and 4.56 might be on the wrong side of it. In this division? Has anyone seen KJ Hamler highlights? He's a 4.3something guy, fo sho.
That video of every single pass to him this year, there's not one play on there where you can say, ooohhh he looked slow there. I'm satisfied that if he doesn't work out, speed won't be the problem
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