What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (2 Viewers)

Chadstroma said:
Clelin Ferrell on 72% of the defensive snaps last game

PFF overall: 81.8

Snaps: 57

Pass rush snaps: 38

Pass rush: 72.6

Total pressures: 6

Defensive stops: 3

Hits: 4

Hurries: 2

He doesn't get the sacks (don't understand why since he gets a number of pressures, hits and hurries) but he impacts the game. 
Click to expand...
Sacks similar to TD are somewhat random. Pressures lead to sacks though and the pressures are a metric more indicative of how well the player is doing compared to their peers than sacks are. A guy might put up the same pressures several seasons in a row while the sack numbers are up and down.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
he's gone as soon as his contract doesn't kill the cap.  good riddance.
Click to expand...
I am frustrated too about his lack of play and lack of mental fortitude to buckle in and do the right thing and not catch COVID or put his teammates at risk.

I read into this a lot seeing a guy who is paid and coasting and not as hungry for it anymore, which I admit is me totally reading into things without proof.

But as much as I'm frustrated and cast dispersions on his choices and work ethic, it is unquestionable that we are a much better team when he plays than when he doesn't.

The guy is a beast and when he is putting his all into the game, I'd much rather have him than not.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I am frustrated too about his lack of play and lack of mental fortitude to buckle in and do the right thing and not catch COVID or put his teammates at risk.

I read into this a lot seeing a guy who is paid and coasting and not as hungry for it anymore, which I admit is me totally reading into things without proof.

But as much as I'm frustrated and cast dispersions on his choices and work ethic, it is unquestionable that we are a much better team when he plays than when he doesn't.

The guy is a beast and when he is putting his all into the game, I'd much rather have him than not.
Click to expand...
As a Pats fans I never liked this signing for the Raiders...the Pats got him for dirt cheap and while he played great for them it felt like a playing for a contract year and it appears that is the case...if he had showed 50% of of that to the Niners they would not have kicked him to the curb...it is too bad because there is no doubt he could be a stud, the tools are all there in a big way.

Question...what is the deal with Ruggs ?  Obviously, this isn’t a normal year for rookies but he is pretty much MIA...are concerns that Carr is not a good QB for his skill set valid?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Boston said:
As a Pats fans I never liked this signing for the Raiders...the Pats got him for dirt cheap and while he played great for them it felt like a playing for a contract year and it appears that is the case...if he had showed 50% of of that to the Niners they would not have kicked him to the curb...it is too bad because there is no doubt he could be a stud, the tools are all there in a big way.

Question...what is the deal with Ruggs ?  Obviously, this isn’t a normal year for rookies but he is pretty much MIA...are concerns that Carr is not a good QB for his skill set valid?
Click to expand...
This. Someone please answer this. He seems to be getting snaps but no production.

 
Boston said:
As a Pats fans I never liked this signing for the Raiders...the Pats got him for dirt cheap and while he played great for them it felt like a playing for a contract year and it appears that is the case...if he had showed 50% of of that to the Niners they would not have kicked him to the curb...it is too bad because there is no doubt he could be a stud, the tools are all there in a big way.

Question...what is the deal with Ruggs ?  Obviously, this isn’t a normal year for rookies but he is pretty much MIA...are concerns that Carr is not a good QB for his skill set valid?
Click to expand...
If he had showed 50% of what? The guy was a fixture on SF's line when he cracked the starting lineup his second year, and started every game through to the following year until about Week 10 or 11 when he was injured. I agree the Pats got him cheap as he was one of the premiere tackles in the league, but they were buying into a player coming off surgery, and I think the 9ers were simply looking for a more agile run-blocking tackle (who they got in McGlinchey). 

I suspect -- based on nothing but conjecture -- that the 9ers were also wary of his ethic and were comfortable letting him go despite the fact that he was clearly -- even with them -- one of the best tackles in the league. And he got away with it on NE because he protected Brady, and he was only there a year.

I hope he just gets healthy and plays. He's is an enormous asset -- figuratively and literally -- to the team. As long as his head's in the game as well.

As to Ruggs -- what were you expecting from him this year?

  1. Was coming onto a team where the #1 target is their TE. 
  2. Raiders offense is run-oriented/run-first -- get 4-8 yards in the first two downs, move the chains.
  3. This sets up shorter passes where Waller and 3rd-and-Renfrow are more able targets
  4. This offense spreads the ball around -- Ruggs has generally the same number of targets that Agholor has
  5. See my comment above about Carr hitting him on deep flys
  6. Ruggs value to this team is stretching the field as much as it is about catching balls. His ability to go deep and the need to cover him downfield -- single or in brackets -- opens up areas underneath for other receivers.
Like you, would have loved to see Ruggs light it up more, but he is 100% contributing to the success of the Raiders in more ways than catching the ball -- unfortunately that value doesn't translate to FF points.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I am frustrated too about his lack of play and lack of mental fortitude to buckle in and do the right thing and not catch COVID or put his teammates at risk.

I read into this a lot seeing a guy who is paid and coasting and not as hungry for it anymore, which I admit is me totally reading into things without proof.

But as much as I'm frustrated and cast dispersions on his choices and work ethic, it is unquestionable that we are a much better team when he plays than when he doesn't.

The guy is a beast and when he is putting his all into the game, I'd much rather have him than not.
Click to expand...
I am not going to judge him until the season is over. 

No matter what, you can't hold it agarhim that a medical staff member screwed up and sent him to the hospital. 

I trust Gruden/Mayock to judge whether he is mailing it in or just had a run of horrible luck. When he is playing, he is a difference maker. I want difference makers on the team and not run them out of town unless they make us.

 
Boston said:
As a Pats fans I never liked this signing for the Raiders...the Pats got him for dirt cheap and while he played great for them it felt like a playing for a contract year and it appears that is the case...if he had showed 50% of of that to the Niners they would not have kicked him to the curb...it is too bad because there is no doubt he could be a stud, the tools are all there in a big way.

Question...what is the deal with Ruggs ?  Obviously, this isn’t a normal year for rookies but he is pretty much MIA...are concerns that Carr is not a good QB for his skill set valid?
Click to expand...
The crazy year and the injury has held back his chemistry with Carr. There have been several long throws that they just aren't in sync. He has never had anyone so fast 

Carr can throw the long ball. See Agholor recently as an example. 

 
With ruggs, I’d like to see them use him the way they did in that first game.  Get him the ball. Hell, gruden loves to fake the jet sweep.  How about hand it off from time to time. Just get him the damn ball. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
With ruggs, I’d like to see them use him the way they did in that first game.  Get him the ball. Hell, gruden loves to fake the jet sweep.  How about hand it off from time to time. Just get him the damn ball. 
Click to expand...
Exactly, I don’t understand the usage. I get sending him deep opens it up for others. But manufacture some touches for the guy like KC did with Hill his first year. Let him run some sweeps, give him a chance to break a slant, throw a screen or two and try to get him in space...

 
King of the Jungle said:
Exactly, I don’t understand the usage. I get sending him deep opens it up for others. But manufacture some touches for the guy like KC did with Hill his first year. Let him run some sweeps, give him a chance to break a slant, throw a screen or two and try to get him in space...
Click to expand...
Would love to see a few more sweeps myself. 

I think the issue is that I think any defensive coordinator worth his salt -- with any semblance of a scouting team -- will have his team prepared if Ruggs is lined up in the slot and starts sprinting across the backside of the line prior to the snap.

 
Zero question, the Raiders have taken a significant step forward this year on offense - particularly in terms of depth at OL, WR and RB. Despite Ruggs/Edwards/Cognito/Browns' health struggles, the next men up are producing. And OL depth improvement has been a boon for Carr. DC has always made plays when given proper time. But even DC has taken his own separate level up - in pre-snap reads/adjustments, and particularly encouraging, in his scrambling/rushing - he always had the athleticism to play like Gannon (but never seemed to have the instinct/inclination for it). Seems this year he's embraced the idea that his legs can save multiple drives per game.

Defense is still a major Achilles heel. Littleton, Collins and Gunther seem total busts - but the rest of the young defenders actually don't look too bad. Need a much better D Coordinator, better DTs, 1-2 more reliable edge rushers, and some 4-3 OLBs - or a DC who can install a 3-4, which I think could work well with Cle at DE and Maxx at DE/OLB. Gruyock needs to unearth the next Wade Phillips. Or just hire the old man, himself.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Would love to see a few more sweeps myself. 

I think the issue is that I think any defensive coordinator worth his salt -- with any semblance of a scouting team -- will have his team prepared if Ruggs is lined up in the slot and starts sprinting across the backside of the line prior to the snap.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Which is why that messes with defenses so badly because they should fake it to Ruggs half the time which opens things up for others. Bottom line is they are winning and as long as that continues who cares how many touches he has. However at some point I would think that they would want that weapon developed and in good chemistry with his QB in case needed (like the KC game when Ruggs was a necessary factor). 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Would love to see a few more sweeps myself. 

I think the issue is that I think any defensive coordinator worth his salt -- with any semblance of a scouting team -- will have his team prepared if Ruggs is lined up in the slot and starts sprinting across the backside of the line prior to the snap.
Click to expand...
The Rams run a ton of jet sweeps and they work a lot.  He can also be deadly on quick slants and bubble screens and I would like to see those plays incorporated into the offense.  They just are not using Ruggs as much as they could now.

 
King of the Jungle said:
Absolutely. Which is why that messes with defenses so badly because they should fake it to Ruggs half the time which opens things up for others. Bottom line is they are winning and as long as that continues who cares how many touches he has. However at some point I would think that they would want that weapon developed and in good chemistry with his QB in case needed (like the KC game when Ruggs was a necessary factor). 
Click to expand...
It is great that the team is winning.   Gruden has been calling great plays.  

 
LB Cory Littleton named most surprising Raider at midpoint of 2020 season

Marcus Mosher

November 13, 2020 10:25 am

Over the offseason, the Raiders signed former Pro Bowl Cory Littleton to a monster deal to fix their linebacker problems. During his time with the Los Angeles Rams, he was widely viewed as one of the best overall linebackers in the NFL as he excelled in coverage. Unfortunately, the Raiders haven’t seen that type of play at all in Las Vegas.

According to Pro Football Focus, Littleton is currently one of the league’s lowest-graded linebackers as he is having major problems in all facets of the game. In a recent piece by the site, Littleton was named the most surprising player on the team due to his poor play to start the season.

Here is a snippet of their thoughts on the linebacker below:

“(Littleton) has been anything but impressive in coverage this season for Las Vegas. Littleton has allowed 388 receiving yards into his coverage in 2020, the third-most in the NFL, all while failing to record a single pass breakup or interception. The Raiders have thrown resources at trying to improve their coverage unit in recent seasons, but additions such as Littleton haven’t had the desired impact. Las Vegas ranks 27th in EPA allowed per pass play this season.”

Littleton was recently placed on the reserve/COVID-19 list by the Raiders and will miss the team’s Week 10 game against the Denver Broncos. While they will certainly miss his athleticism on the field, the drop-off between he and the next linebacker might not be all that significant considering his level of play this year.

Hopefully, Littleton is able to return to full strength and beat COVID-19 over the next few weeks. The Raiders are optimistic that with more time in this scheme, Littleon can return to his Pro Bowl form. They need him to if they want to take the next step as a defense.
Click to expand...

 
DocHolliday said:
Most surprising and/or most disappointing?   
Click to expand...
Both. 

I was so happy when we got him and thought he would go a long way to shore up our defense let alone our LB corp. Not so much. 

On the other side, I was a bit apprehensive of signing Kwiatkowski and giving him MLB duties but he has been solid and a bright spot. Not a big play machine but one of those guys that a great defense needs as a foundation. 

 
Kolton Miller doubtful with his ankle injury.

Gabe Jackson questionable with an illness.

Anyone know when Incognito is supposed to be back?

 
  • Gabe Jackson listed as Q, did not practice this week. Not listed at practice Wed/Thu, and got a DNP designation for Fri. Hopefully that means he's on the mend and will play. May be in heavy rotation if he does and isn't at full strength.
  • Hudson went from a DNP on Wed to full practice Fri, likely to play.
  • Sam Young listed as limited in practice all week; no tag yet.
  • Kolton Miller doubtful, Mo Hurst Out. 
  • Mullen, Abram, and improbably, Ingold, all got full practices by week end so likely to play. 
  • David Irving likely to get some snaps in. 
Not to be a Negative Nancy, but got a bad feeling about this one.

Our D bends to far and sometimes breaks, and relies on our O to keep us in games. Denver isn't a high-powered offense but can click and have decent skill starters. 

If our O line -- especially on the outside -- aren't stellar, it could ruin the two things we absolutely rely on for offense:

  1. Keeping Carr clean. No is better save Mahomes when not taking sacks this year from a statistical standpoint. When Carr can stay upright and make decisions, allows for the dep route to develop, and more importantly, for things such as WCO move-the-chains passes and play fakes to occur
  2. We are a run-first team predicated on Jacobs' unbelievable talent to grind out 3rd and shorts (thus set up what a WCO is so effective at doing in these down-and-distance situations -- move the chains). If the O-line can't hold or create running lanes, we become one-dimensional and it's easier to contain our offense.
So not confident in this game despite us being much better on paper -- it's a divisional game and we haven't always been stellar in games where we're on an upswing and facing teams we should beat to keep momentum going (see Jets last year).

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
  • Gabe Jackson listed as Q, did not practice this week. Not listed at practice Wed/Thu, and got a DNP designation for Fri. Hopefully that means he's on the mend and will play. May be in heavy rotation if he does and isn't at full strength.
  • Hudson went from a DNP on Wed to full practice Fri, likely to play.
  • Sam Young listed as limited in practice all week; no tag yet.
  • Kolton Miller doubtful, Mo Hurst Out. 
  • Mullen, Abram, and improbably, Ingold, all got full practices by week end so likely to play. 
  • David Irving likely to get some snaps in. 
Not to be a Negative Nancy, but got a bad feeling about this one.

Our D bends to far and sometimes breaks, and relies on our O to keep us in games. Denver isn't a high-powered offense but can click and have decent skill starters. 

If our O line -- especially on the outside -- aren't stellar, it could ruin the two things we absolutely rely on for offense:

  1. Keeping Carr clean. No is better save Mahomes when not taking sacks this year from a statistical standpoint. When Carr can stay upright and make decisions, allows for the dep route to develop, and more importantly, for things such as WCO move-the-chains passes and play fakes to occur
  2. We are a run-first team predicated on Jacobs' unbelievable talent to grind out 3rd and shorts (thus set up what a WCO is so effective at doing in these down-and-distance situations -- move the chains). If the O-line can't hold or create running lanes, we become one-dimensional and it's easier to contain our offense.
So not confident in this game despite us being much better on paper -- it's a divisional game and we haven't always been stellar in games where we're on an upswing and facing teams we should beat to keep momentum going (see Jets last year).
Click to expand...
This is an important game for the Raiders.  They must win games where they are favored and it is up to the O to win these games.  The D isn’t good and isn’t going to stop Denver.   Denver isn’t a bad team, as you mentioned.   Lock is doing ok and the running backs are decent.  Jeudy has the skills to be a good WR.   

 
As I type this with the Raiders recovering an onside kick attempt 6 mins left in the 4th against a Bronco team we've battered, bruised, and thoroughly outplayed on both ends of the ball:

We're on our way to 4 wins out of our last 5, and undefeated in the division.

Our second and third string guys have been stepping up.

Our secondary is hitting like they aspire to be the next Soul Patrol -- some real hesitation from Broncos receivers today going across the middle or when hearing footsteps.

Actually getting some pass rush and our O line keeping a stout D line at bay.

Fully believe we can win at least 4 of the next 7, getting us to 9 wins. We need to do better than that to firmly secure a spot, especially with playing a surging MIA team in WK 16.

But I believe.

Let's shock the Chiefs again next week.

 
6-3

3-0 in the division

Only two starters on the Oline and lost Young mid game. Still ran for over 200. The line wasn't as dominant but it did enough as we are short staffed there.

I love Kwiat.

Key reminded everyone he was on the roster still showing up early and that monster hit that on Lock that bothered him the rest of the game. 

Heath grabs two and Nassib with one. Kwiat with his one handed one to rob Heath of his 3rd INT for the game. Nice to get the turnovers

Morrow made more of an impact than Littleton has in any game after replacing him this week. 

Abram is the heart and leader of this D for sure. 

Ruggs uncharacteristically dropped that long ball. He has better hands than that. 

A number of missed plays that would habe made this even more one sided early on. 

Glad to get this win and hopefully heal up to keep us perfect in our division and pushing hard towards the playoffs. The games are much easier after getting past KC. 

Feeling good Raider Nation

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few more things... 

Nassib's INT was great. From the INT where you can almost see hos body language of "WTF, I better not drop this" to his lumbering Gorilla in a riod rage run to his laughing about it all on the sidelines after. 

He is the favorite Raider punching bag now that the Carr haters have nothing to swing at... and I can't say that I am a supporter of him.... but I am going to give Guenther props here. Not just because the defense stepped up ans lead the win against the hated Donkeys. I found this and I think it gives a glimpse of Guenther making changes and it paying off : "We changed some things," said Nicholas Morrow regarding Littleton's absence. "We had to do a little different personnels and tweak some of the calls, because Cory is such a versatile player and just gives a lot of flexibility on third down" that tells me that this performance was in part due to Guenther not just plugging Morrow in and going but changing things up and using the players strengths to get the most of who you have. 

I did not realize this but we gave up 1 yard in the 3rd Q apparently. 

 
They should have destroyed the donkeys by 40 something points, if you add in the Renfrow punt return,  Waller and Ruggs drops. This was complete domination at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. And what heck has gotten into Brandon Parker? No Miller, Brown or Incognito and it's like the Oline doesn't miss a beat. Although its probably why they ran between the tackles so much. But, hey, whatever works, keep doing it until they stop you. They didn't even miss Littleton, I've always thought Morrow had it in him, he just needed time to develop, he's always been the Raiders most athletic LB the past few years, props to him. 

 
Bruno2 said:
And what heck has gotten into Brandon Parker? No Miller, Brown or Incognito and it's like the Oline doesn't miss a beat.

They didn't even miss Littleton
Click to expand...
To the first sentence, let's not talk about it and jinx the unbelievable job our reserves have done throughout the year. ;)

I don't think we'll be completely healthy for a bit still, and our 2nd/3rd stringers are stepping up in such a huge way. 

As to the second sentence quoted, it's almost as if we play better without Littleton. Hmm....

Chadstroma said:
KC put tackles Fisher, Schwartz and Rankin on COVID reserve. May or may not be available for the game. 
Click to expand...
Schwartz and Fisher being out are big -- those guys are pivotal to Mahomes' ability to make reads and either go downfield or spring out of the pocket.

Rankin hasn't been a factor -- I actually don't know if he was even activated until about a week ago.

 
Watching Jefferson light it up another week is rough.   Would rather have seen the Raiders draft Lamb and Jefferson over Ruggs and used that third round pick on D instead of Edwards.  Ruggs has great speed and is probably helping open up the O but you don’t draft that type of player in the middle of the first round.  

Ruggs and Edwards have a big chance to shut me up this week.   They are going to be needed if the Raiders are going to outscore the Chefs.  The Raiders beat a team they need to beat last week and are playing good ball.   Here comes a test against the best team in the NFL.  

 
DocHolliday said:
Watching Jefferson light it up another week is rough.   Would rather have seen the Raiders draft Lamb and Jefferson over Ruggs and used that third round pick on D instead of Edwards.  Ruggs has great speed and is probably helping open up the O but you don’t draft that type of player in the middle of the first round.  

Ruggs and Edwards have a big chance to shut me up this week.   They are going to be needed if the Raiders are going to outscore the Chefs.  The Raiders beat a team they need to beat last week and are playing good ball.   Here comes a test against the best team in the NFL.  
Click to expand...
I feel you. I still am not big on our draft but can live with it. My fundamentals tell me to build the core of the team with the mid first round pick and take the shinier things when they fall to grab specific desired tools. Of course imo, if any player becomes a key contributor to the team, they are worth the mid first purely on a  value perspective as many picks don't last.

 
DocHolliday said:
Watching Jefferson light it up another week is rough.   Would rather have seen the Raiders draft Lamb and Jefferson over Ruggs and used that third round pick on D instead of Edwards.  Ruggs has great speed and is probably helping open up the O but you don’t draft that type of player in the middle of the first round.  

Ruggs and Edwards have a big chance to shut me up this week.   They are going to be needed if the Raiders are going to outscore the Chefs.  The Raiders beat a team they need to beat last week and are playing good ball.   Here comes a test against the best team in the NFL.  
Click to expand...
I am not calling the worth of Ruggs/Edwards based on half a season where both have missed significant time with injury on a crazy season like this. There were a lot of great wide outs in this draft. I was banging the table for Chase Claypool (though the Steelers grabbed him sooner than I thought he would have gone). 

There is no doubt Ruggs brings to the team more than his individual production but even so, he is NOT a Heyward-Bey speed guy that won't produce. Give him time. Edwards is one big huge question mark though. His college career is unknown because of injury and so far his professional career is as well. He got a whole lot people excited in the messed up off season to win the starter role but didn't show much before getting hurt. Again- he is a rookie in a messed up year that has been out most of the season. I am not calling anything now. 

Finally, we have lot's of mouths to feed on offense now. I mean, look at Waller's numbers. They are not huge but he is clearly one of the best tight ends in the league. Renfrow is a legit target. Agholar has earned targets. Several smaller pieces at TE and WR to eat a ball here and there. And then Jacobs and not just Jacobs but Booker coming in and playing dang good ball too- feed them all day. 

Would you want Jefferson and the Viking record or Ruggs numbers and a 6-3. I will take a 6-3 even though it isn't fantasy football sexy. 

 
DocHolliday said:
Not sure why the Raiders wouldn’t be 6-3 with Jefferson.   They may even be 8-1 with Jefferson.      
Click to expand...
I don't have the energy to go in circles over something like that right now. I don't think Jefferson would have made a difference either way to be honest. I think we would potentially be 8-1 if Brown was playing this whole year. Hell, we might be 9-0 if we had Aaron Donald on our team. (If we are saying what if's, let's do it right!) 

We have the team we have. I like the team we have on offense. I think we can beat any defense as it is built currently and that is what matters. We are 6-3 and currently IN the playoffs right now. We have a very young team. If we can get our Oline healthy we will have a dominant offense. I am not going to worry about Jefferson. Even more so when I didn't see any plausible scenario that we would have taken him going into the draft to begin with. 

 
DocHolliday said:
Watching Jefferson light it up another week is rough.   Would rather have seen the Raiders draft Lamb and Jefferson over Ruggs and used that third round pick on D instead of Edwards.  Ruggs has great speed and is probably helping open up the O but you don’t draft that type of player in the middle of the first round.  

Ruggs and Edwards have a big chance to shut me up this week.   They are going to be needed if the Raiders are going to outscore the Chefs.  The Raiders beat a team they need to beat last week and are playing good ball.   Here comes a test against the best team in the NFL.  
Click to expand...
I think its hard to say what may have developed in this alternate reality where the Raiders make different picks. Jefferson is looking like the real deal at this point while we are still wondering what Ruggs and Edwards will become.

The Raiders needed some WR. That was obvious from the 2019 season. They attacked it in the draft and free agency. The free agents perhaps making more of an impact than the rookies have, but overall the offense is playing much better and although Carr was playing well last season too the weapons have allowed him to grow this year as well.

I asked about this in the Bryan Edwards thread, but what are you and other Raiders fans impressions of him so far? How is his blocking for example? That seemed to be something he was doing a lot last time I saw him play and generally doing it well. Has Nelson Agholor been playing the X WR position that Edwards was? If not who is? I am just trying to figure out who his main competition is for playing time?

Edwards played 20 snaps in recent game 28% Ruggs had 62% Agholor had 69% and Renfrow had 47% of the snaps in most recent game.

Is Ruggs still mostly playing the Z position? Or has Agholor been lining up there?

 
DocHolliday said:
Not sure why the Raiders wouldn’t be 6-3 with Jefferson.   They may even be 8-1 with Jefferson.      
Click to expand...
Its a massive leap to try to guess what players might have done on other teams. The win loss record is a team stat. You would need to also play the Vikings schedule and so forth if making such a comparison.

Think of Michael Thomas. While he is a good WR I doubt he would have put up the same numbers if drafted by another team than the Saints. I think its hard to give any one player much credit for a win or loss although people do that to QBs all the time.

 
A WR's production is also dependent on the play calling and the QB's ability to get him the ball. Randy Moss for example, albeit one of the most freakishly talented WRs ever to play, when he had Culpepper and Brady throwing him the ball, he was unstoppable. That low point in his career when he signed with the Raiders, he didn't nearly play as well as he did in Minnesota and New England. Why? Garbage at the QB position, a franchise being run into the ground by a dinosaur of an owner who only wanted to run an offense fit for 1976. Sure Moss's attitude at the time wasn't the best but that can be attributed to the culture of the organization at the time. Point being, lots of factors go into WR production other than their individual skill set. I'm being patient with these guys, it's a team game.

 
Bruno2 said:
A WR's production is also dependent on the play calling and the QB's ability to get him the ball. Randy Moss for example, albeit one of the most freakishly talented WRs ever to play, when he had Culpepper and Brady throwing him the ball, he was unstoppable. That low point in his career when he signed with the Raiders, he didn't nearly play as well as he did in Minnesota and New England. Why? Garbage at the QB position, a franchise being run into the ground by a dinosaur of an owner who only wanted to run an offense fit for 1976. Sure Moss's attitude at the time wasn't the best but that can be attributed to the culture of the organization at the time. Point being, lots of factors go into WR production other than their individual skill set. I'm being patient with these guys, it's a team game.
Click to expand...
And even more goes into winning and losing and production etc and it goes well beyond the WR position. I mean, look at Littleton. He was universally looked at as being one of, if not the best, coverage LB in the game.... we grab him and now he is rated as one of the worst LB's in the game. Why? Look at our big FA from the Rams before that with Joyner. Again, played at a much higher level than he has with us. Are these situations where the scheme is not a good fit? Are they not understanding their role correctly? Is it bad coaching? Did they relax after the big FA paydays? Are they physically declining? Are they having a rough family life right now? I mean... there are so many examples of players doing well and then not or vice versa. Would Agholar been allowed to leave if he played as he has been with us in Philly? I suspect the answer is no. Heck, remember when we signed Donald Penn to be our LT? It was laughed at as another horrible Raider move and he ended up being an excellent LT for us until his age started catching up with him, we got Miller and tried him at RT before injury and release. The reason why I love this game is that there are just so many variables it is insane. It is a very complex game. It isn't like baseball where you can take a player from one team and then plug him into another team and expect his average, HR, runs, etc to be plugged into your lineup. It just doesn't work like that in football. Would Jefferson been good with us? I am sure he would. He is a talented kid. Would he have helped our overall offense as much as Ruggs does? I don't think so. Jefferson looks to me to be a very good WR but he isn't going to worry DC's about breaking a game wide open- Ruggs will. Would Jefferson help loosen the field up for Jacobs and even other WR/TE options? No, I don't think so, not at all really. Are Lamb and Jeudy great talents? Yes. No doubt. Can I say this early that we should have gone with them over Ruggs? Nope. And after some years where we can really look back on it and have a better judgement of it- you MUST take into account what Ruggs does with the whole offense. Now, that all being said, I was VERY vocal about NOT wanting Ruggs because I didn't want just another speed guy. However, after we did take him and I spent time looking at him, I came away convinced that he isn't just another speed guy. Give him time. He is a rookie that has missed several games. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Raiders place DE Clelin Ferrell, DB Lamarcus Joyner on reserve/COVID-19 list
Click to expand...
Hoping this turns out to be contact-based and not that they tested positive.

As to all this about taking Jefferson and not Ruggs:

  1. There was a lot of whinging (from myself included) that we picked Ruggs over Jeudy and Lamb -- imagine the uproar if we reached even further for Jefferson
  2. This is the very definition of useless handwringing over 20/20 hindsight. I mean, I wish we drafted Megatron instead of JaMarcus.
  3. The guy is a talent and is perfect for our team and personnel as it stands. Teams need to respect the deep ball which creates opportunities for others underneath -- in a WCO, and especially in our run-first, get 3rd and short, move the chains, the ball gets spread around. And should be...because it's working.
  4. Jefferson definitely benefits from a guy like Thielen -- even if Jefferson was on our squad, I am not sure he would have the same space without a true WR1 opposite him. Think about that as you think about how solid Lamb has been with a guy like Cooper opposite him as well.
  5. Patience, grasshoppers. I am sure we'll be looking at this at some time in the future (hopefully near) and laughing how we ever doubted Ruggs.
We're 6-3 and winning. We are currently holding the 5th AFC playoff seed. I mean, I know we're long embattered Raiders fans, but do we need to look for things to make us more miserable than we always are -- especially at a time when there is much more to celebrate than bemoan.

 
Love the WR discussion.  Questioning the moves by the front office on draft day isn’t going to end since the Raiders have been desperate for WR help and the latest draft was loaded with WR talent.  Ruggs is going to be a big part of that discussion since he was chosen first.  Ruggs does have value that doesn’t show on his box score since he opens up the field for other players which means a ton for the team.   For Ruggs to become a threat that requires extra attention though he will need to put up numbers.  The last two weeks were not typical games but this upcoming game should require Ruggs to be involved.    

 
Ferrell tested positive for COVID. He will be out for the game. 

Joyner was a close contact. 

Most likely Ferrell will be out. Joyner should be available with all clear testing. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Ferrell tested positive for COVID. He will be out for the game. 

Joyner was a close contact. 

Most likely Ferrell will be out. Joyner should be available with all clear testing. 
Click to expand...
Dammit. I'd say if Ferrell tested positive it absolutely means he is going to be out and that hurts us -- Peppa plays more quietly than the Salt side of the line but he's an integral cog that's a steady and solid presence we need. 

Weird that we know that Ferrell tested positive, but we don't have word on whether Schwartz or Fisher tested positive (at least that I could find).

Had we been playing another team that the NFL loves to shine their spotlight on in primetime, our game would somehow be moved up to today.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hankmoody
2024 Las Vegas Raiders thread - one more sleep!
31 32 33
Replies
2K
Views
51K
joey
joey
Hankmoody
2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever
120 121 122
Replies
6K
Views
224K
LawFitz
LawFitz
Hankmoody
2022 Las Vegas Raiders
94 95 96
Replies
5K
Views
108K
SproutDaddy
SproutDaddy

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top