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Jon Gruden wanted a new defensive voice, but is still leaning on excuses

By Vic Tafur Dec 14, 2020 109 

There will be “a new voice” and “a new energy” on the Raiders defense the remainder of this season. 

Jon Gruden said it three times on Monday when the coach answered why he fired defensive coordinator and good friend Paul Guenther on Sunday night. 

The “why” part didn’t need a lot of explaining, as the Raiders have allowed 150 points over the last four games, falling from 6-3 to 7-6. But why it had to happen Sunday night with the Raiders on a short week ahead of a Thursday night game needed some light shed on it. 

“We need a new voice right now,” Gruden said. “I think it’ll help Paul in the long run, probably, getting away from me. Certainly, he’s a great coach. We thank him for everything that he has done. But we need a new voice right now. I think we need a new energy.”

Defensive line coach and new interim defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli, 71, is that voice, and the former Cowboys defensive coordinator has used it a lot in his 47 years of coaching. 

“We want to service those players the best way we can with a new voice and new energy and a guy that’s had a lot of experience in some tough situations,” Gruden said. “I’m really excited about our football team.”

Is he though? That’s a little hard to believe given how bad the defense has been and how his beloved running game has disappeared the last three games. The Raiders would have lost four straight if Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams hadn’t gotten worked up and blitzed everyone at the end of that game eight days ago. (Actually, if Williams had kept one safety back, Gruden probably fires Guenther in New York and Marinelli has a full week to prepare for the Colts game.)

And what exactly is Marinelli going to change? How much can he change on a defense with limited playmakers and questionable depth? 

“It’s a hard question,” Gruden said. “Right now, Cle Ferrell comes out of the game. John Abram …”

I am going to cut Gruden off, as he talked about all the team’s injuries a few times on Monday. 

New voice or old, Marinelli already has built-in excuses going into Thursday night’s kickoff against the Chargers. Just listen to Gruden later when he tried a Jedi mind trick that has gotten familiar by now.

“I’m not here to make any excuses,” he said. “We have to play better, we have three games left. (Nick) Kwiatkoski had injuries. (Cory) Littleton has had coronavirus. Now, Nick Morrow has a concussion. John Abram’s been in, he’s been out. Damon Arnette has been out most of the year. Now Jeff Heath is out. 

“Lamarcus Joyner’s had the coronavirus. Maliek Collins is now on IR. (Maurice) Hurst has had the coronavirus. We’ve had it at all three levels. Now, (Clelin) Ferrell is hurt. So, we have to do some damage control. We have to continue to coach and grind and stay positive and hope that Vic Beasley, Takk McKinley, some of these newcomers can step up and play key roles for us.”

This year especially, with all teams dealing with COVID-19, excuses don’t carry a lot of water. Good teams draft and sign good players, and backups fill in when needed. Bad teams crumble and fire coaches and coordinators. The problem with most of those guys that Gruden mentioned hasn’t been injuries or being sick, but that they didn’t play well when they were on the field.

That list of injuries could have worked in a quote on why Gruden decided to keep Guenther on the rest of the season. But he saw the season slipping away and decided to shake things up. 

If the Raiders don’t turn it around and continue to copy last season’s collapse, the focus will shift to the players and whether or not they brought in the right ones. General manager Mike Mayock was unavailable for comment Monday, but the music will be hitting him in the face come the offseason if the Raiders don’t get to nine wins. 

It all falls on the shoulder of Marinelli, whose defensive line group has been a big part of the problem this season. Maybe he has a plan that he wasn’t sharing with Gruden or Guenther earlier. 

“I think he’s one of the great teachers and great motivators and great people that I’ve met in this business,” Gruden said. “He looks forward to adversity, he thrives in it. I think he looks forward to these challenges of building this defense and putting it all together. That’s why we brought him here in the first place.”

Some of the pieces are chipped and some just haven’t fit, but if Marinelli can’t put at least some of them together in three games, there will be a laundry list of injuries and sick players why. 

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Gruden is like many of the fans.  Always excuses.    He’s a rookie.  He’s been hurt.  He’s had Covid.    Blah, blah, blah.  Every team was in the same boat!   Nobody had a preseason.   Many teams were hit with injuries and Covid.   Guess what.   They regroup and win again.   The season is over.   How many years does it take  to build a playoff team again?

The bottom line is simple.   If Gruden doesn’t do a better job in FA and the draft, it will be the same thing next season.  The talent on D stinks.  FAs disappoint and too many reaches occur during the draft.   We are always waiting for the rookies to develop and make an impact.  Within a couple of years, those great draft picks fade away and we are watching the next class disappoint.  Gruden will keep rolling out the rookie and injury excuses and keep cashing giant paychecks while other teams win.   

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11 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

There are reports that Wade Phillips is interested in the DC position. 

I am interested too... more thoughts later. Timd for bed.

He's interested in the job, and I have zero doubt Gruden is kicking those tires.

Overall PFF Defense Rank under Wade Phillips (all as DC except for the Cowboys years where he is HC):

LAR	2019	6
LAR	2018	4
LAR	2017	10
DEN	2016	2
DEN 	2015	1
HOU	2013	22
HOU	2012	12
HOU	2011	6
DAL	2010	11
DAL	2009	2
DAL	2008	12
DAL	2007	8
SD	2006	3

On the other side of the coin, what's the reason he hasn't been hired in the offseason and through the year? Is the new open systems with more constraints than ever on defensive players seen as a limitation against his forte? Personality?

Between him or Raheem Morris (who isn't available and will likely be HC in ATL next year), these seem to be the best external candidates.

 

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Gruden is like many of the fans.  Always excuses.    He’s a rookie.  He’s been hurt.  He’s had Covid.    Blah, blah, blah.  Every team was in the same boat!   Nobody had a preseason.   Many teams were hit with injuries and Covid.   Guess what.   They regroup and win again.   The season is over.   How many years does it take  to build a playoff team again?

The bottom line is simple.   If Gruden doesn’t do a better job in FA and the draft, it will be the same thing next season.  The talent on D stinks.  FAs disappoint and too many reaches occur during the draft.   We are always waiting for the rookies to develop and make an impact.  Within a couple of years, those great draft picks fade away and we are watching the next class disappoint.  Gruden will keep rolling out the rookie and injury excuses and keep cashing giant paychecks while other teams win.   

“I’m going to go try to win the last three games, so I’m going to put the guys that earned the right to start or play in,” Rhule said, via Darin Gantt of the team’s website. “I just don’t think it’s a great message to the team to start making this a tryout. The question earlier about how to keep guys’ eyes from glossing over, if we learn one thing this year with a young team, if we learn how to finish a season with 28 days of focus in December, if we have a chance to be a playoff team next year, our ability to focus around Christmas, to focus around Thanksgiving, to go win games at the end of the year when you’re beat up, when practices are shorter, that’s a skill.” 

Embarrassing contrast to the Quote above from the Panther's head coach. Rhule makes a great point about the ability to finish out the season as a skill that has to be honed. So far Gruden's come up woefully short. 

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1 hour ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

He's interested in the job, and I have zero doubt Gruden is kicking those tires.

Overall PFF Defense Rank under Wade Phillips (all as DC except for the Cowboys years where he is HC):


LAR	2019	6
LAR	2018	4
LAR	2017	10
DEN	2016	2
DEN 	2015	1
HOU	2013	22
HOU	2012	12
HOU	2011	6
DAL	2010	11
DAL	2009	2
DAL	2008	12
DAL	2007	8
SD	2006	3

On the other side of the coin, what's the reason he hasn't been hired in the offseason and through the year? Is the new open systems with more constraints than ever on defensive players seen as a limitation against his forte? Personality?

Between him or Raheem Morris (who isn't available and will likely be HC in ATL next year), these seem to be the best external candidates.

 

I'd take either Phillips or Morris (who deserves a HC job). Just an average defense would put this team over the hump. Although part of me is intrigued with the idea of getting a fresh up and comer that can relate to and inspire the players. 

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On 12/14/2020 at 12:01 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Finally Guenther is gone. We had been calling for this for a while, and arguably it should have been done earlier, but it was hard to see when that would have been.

I would have thought after the Bucs loss...

Similarly, you could argue that Guenther should have been gone after the Falcons or Jets games...

Glad he's gone, not sure Marinelli is going to bring anything incredibly different to the table, but we'll see.

We'll see, but it looks like this is yet another lost year.

The correct answer is Guenther should have been gone after LAST season. I think this is another hazard when you give a coach a 10-year contract. If Gruden was on even a 5-year deal, maybe Guenther would have been sacked then. (Another great subhead for the tread, BTW, Hank!!!!)

I agree with STC that Marinelli will likely bring nothing. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss," as The Who once sang. I figure he's interim anyway. Altho Phillips would probably be an upgrade, I want Gruden to earn his salary and come up with a fresh face just like Al turned heads and plucked him two decades ago to run the show. A guy with new ideas and not someone from the retread coaching mill. A guy who will motivate. Think outside the box, Jon. Earn your $10 million or whatever it is.

Tom is right..."another lost year" and I pin it solely on Gruden's failure to can Guenther in a timely fashion. That defense hasn't been close to NFL-caliber his entire three years back. Any semblance of a defense this year and they could be making a serious run at the playoffs. He should have pulled the trigger long before now.

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As a Carr owner in superflex. I’m really going to miss Guenther‘s shall we say, creative approach to defensive coaching.

Abram is a player who immediately comes to mind who can and will likely benefit from better defensive coaching. Stupid, unnecessary personal fouls that keep the Raiders D on the field after making stops on 3rd and long must be infuriating to fans & Gruden alike. 

Sure, some of the Raiders defensive woes are talent gaps, but there are coachable, teachable things. 

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I don't know how you don't consider Wade. He has been a trainwreck as a HC but outstanding every time as a DC right up to just a year ago with the Rams. Why did the Rams let him go? I have no idea. But it isn't like he is being shunned from the NFL ranks. I see a report a couple of weeks ago that several teams were already contacting him about taking their DC position (no teams named). 

As STC showed, his track record with several teams over the years and recently has been great with him usually having a top ten defense or near it. 

Our two biggest FA signings over the last two years who have both not lived up to expectations BOTH excelled and made their money working with/for Wade. I can't imagine that Littleton and Joyner would not return to form as they were before under him if he came on board. I suspect Joyner would be moved to FS as he payed with the Rams but if those two played to the level they did with the Rams, that would go a LONG way to shoring up our defense even if no one else improved significantly. Based on his track record, I don't see why others would not improve as well though. 

He has a base 3-4 (no one plays a pure 4-3/3-4 anymore so that is prob meaningless to this point as pretty much everyone's base is now a nickle package) but that intrigues me. Cle could work as a DE in a 3-4. Not sure who would be the other DE as Maxx would need to move to OLB I believe. Still trying to work through that all in my head though it may be premature to do so. 

The biggest obstacle may be Rod himself though if there is not much of an improvement in the D to end this season that may give them enough of an excuse to make room for Wade. It seems to me that 

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Lynn Bowden had more receptions in one game than Ruggs has had in any two games combined.  

Bowden is a rookie that didn’t have a preseason and switched teams.  

 

He has done squat until this last game and hasn't missed time to my knowledge. 

Take a breath and take a break. 

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This idea that the defense lacks talent is over exaggerated....many players were brought in that played well elsewhere only to struggle largely in Guenther's scheme.  Littleton was a top coverage lb as a Ram and has sucked with the Raiders so far.  That is just one example....there are many others.

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23 minutes ago, Toomuchnv said:

This idea that the defense lacks talent is over exaggerated....many players were brought in that played well elsewhere only to struggle largely in Guenther's scheme.  Littleton was a top coverage lb as a Ram and has sucked with the Raiders so far.  That is just one example....there are many others.

I agree - they have pieces. They can use more, but they're hardly devoid of talent defensively. 

The scheme is a big part of their problem. Discipline is another. They played better earlier in the season IIRC. Dunno if Geunther lost the locker room or what, but they definitely play below their ability. That and a bunch of injuries. The secondary is a kind of a mess. 

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

I report to you now?  

 

1 hour ago, Chadstroma said:

Whatever. Be negative and a whiner and then an ###. 

It adds no value and isn't a good look but you do you 

Peace, gents.

Don't let this team falling apart and dashing our hopes all over again tear us apart.

  • Rejoice in our re-found mediocrity.
  • Regale in no longer enduring Guenther's fat face looking slack-jawed and clueless on the sidelines.
  • Remain steadfast in our love for a team who hasn't loved us back for decades
  • Remember the Chiefs fans who love to wade in here with hilariously limp and transparent attempts to stir pots.
  • Refer to the stats books to see how we are wasting Carr's career
  • Respect the shield the and Hole and the memories of Al Davis's tracksuits and Gorilla 'Rilla and Darth Raider roaming tailgate parties.
  • Reefer, if you must, to mellow.

Let's move on, and let's do it together.

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The last few weeks have been tough, but I'm going to stay positive.  I think if the Raiders win out they will make the playoffs.

As far as the DC, I would love to bring Wade in next year.  I do not think that is going to happen though.  I think if the D shows any improvement, which is not hard to do, Marinelli will get the job full time.  Let's not forget that he goes back to Tampa with Gruden.

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9 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

Peace, gents.

Don't let this team falling apart and dashing our hopes all over again tear us apart.

  • Rejoice in our re-found mediocrity.
  • Regale in no longer enduring Guenther's fat face looking slack-jawed and clueless on the sidelines.
  • Remain steadfast in our love for a team who hasn't loved us back for decades
  • Remember the Chiefs fans who love to wade in here with hilariously limp and transparent attempts to stir pots.
  • Refer to the stats books to see how we are wasting Carr's career
  • Respect the shield the and Hole and the memories of Al Davis's tracksuits and Gorilla 'Rilla and Darth Raider roaming tailgate parties.
  • Reefer, if you must, to mellow.

Let's move on, and let's do it together.

Can we add one to this great list please?

  • Renfrow, Hunter.
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Random comments here to address a number of open topics, in no particular order.

  • Defensive coordinator matters.  Player talent matters.  Neither can exist and be productive without the other.   A DC must be able to find a game plan that puts his unit in a position to win each snap, failing to adjust play calling, player match-ups, or build a plan that gives the players the best opportunity to leverage their talent and win.   A DC who fails to recognize their own shortcomings and fail to adjust (GUENTHER) is no help to a team.   
  • When seeing quotes from coaches, can we take a pause to recognize that they are answering a question we likely don't know the context to?  The media will spin the quote to their benefit to make a better article.   On top of it, what are coaches supposed to say?  it's a circle of misspeak, responding to the same question over and over, and playing to a mandated process by the league to create a fake environment of 'access'. 
  • Gruden was brought in for his Offence.   To which there has been improvement.  Slower than what we'd like, sure.  But we are fans who want an expect a 16-0 season, and a Super Bowl win.   Carr is performing at an impressive level, a level that would get a lot more attention if the D could make a stop here or there.    The O-line has produced well even though as a starting unit they have only had something like 3 snaps together.   
  • Bowden vs. Ruggs, please.  Why bother.  Bowden only had an opportunity to play because of the injuries to the Dolphins WRs ahead of him in a game they were playing from behind.  
  • The Raiders still have a chance to make the post season, granted we need some help to get there.  But I'll be damned if I'm not glued to the TV for the next 3 games.   Carr is ready to lead this team, we need to find that voice on the D side of the ball.   From what I've seen, nobody has taken that role on yet.
  • Abram needs to learn to tackle.  Hell, the entire D needs to learn to attack the ball.   Maybe Rod will have the entire team watch the Falcons performance of gang tackling.
  • Who is going to tell Arnette that the point of playing a game is not to be injured on the first play of the game?  

 

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13 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Whatever. Be negative and a whiner and then an ###. 

It adds no value and isn't a good look but you do you 

I did not whine once.  I made a bunch of true statements that burst your bubble.  This season is over.   

Damn straight I am being negative.  Why should I be positive?   Our team disappointed again.   

Thanks for the name calling though.  I didn’t know that was permitted and demand an apology.  

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Crazy that the Chargers have not won an AFC West game since Dec 2018.

Saw that Bryan Edwards got in a full practice today. Not holding my breath but we need him.

Bosa wasn't on the field for the last tilt we had. But neither was Trent Brown.

Chargers secondary is great on paper but haven't been good as of late, so we'll see who shows up Thursday.

We need to be ready to account for Ekeler -- we're getting torched by the run and by receivers out of the backfield, and have a feeling the Chargers plan a heavy dose of the ground game. 

Overall a hard fought division game is on the slate, but a winnable one if the offense can get clicking. 

 

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6 hours ago, kaso said:

This one will be .... interesting.

New DC.
No OC (Covid)
No Ruggs (Covid)
No Cle
No Abram
No Arnette
No Morrow.
No Heath.
No Collins.

 

Yea.... ouch. A struggling defense losing several key players and starters. Great. And then the OC isn't there (but Gruden calls the plays so I am not sure how much of an impact that will really be). 

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6 hours ago, kaso said:

This one will be .... interesting.

New DC.
No OC (Covid)
No Ruggs (Covid)
No Cle
No Abram
No Arnette
No Morrow.
No Heath.
No Collins.

 

I am not one to be defeatist. The Chargers are ailing on their end as well. And it's not as if the starters on D have so much separation in terms of what they've shown on the field than any scrubs we pull off the bench/PS. 

But man, this does not bode well. 

We're not the only team who was hit hard by COVID this year, but for the very fact that we have been, you'd think we'd have way better protocol and not be losing players and coaches to COVID in week 15.

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We had no business being in that game into the end, but there we were.

Props to the team -- and especially to Mariota, a truly incredible and inspired performance -- for hanging tough and fighting until the end.

But we needed to put the ball in the end zone in OT. 

That's the team we are right now. I thought we could be better than that -- even against all odds and common sense -- but we're not.

The cycle of hope --> dashed hopes continues. Makes me feel alive in all the wrong kinds of ways.

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Personal foul on Kwiat at the end of the game was complete bull####. Seriously, how are defenders supposed to stop themselves in those moments when the offensive player is going down and helmets collide in transition. Raiders likely lose either way, but eff that call.

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3 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Ok, all Carr haters... here is your chance. 

I wouldn't understand why Carr would get any hate from tonight. He got injured. 

I hope he's OK and can come back to play out the season.

I guess this is also exactly why we spent the dough on Mariota -- gives us a credible chance in games if he goes down. Actually refreshing to see after all this time of very sketchy backups. Not many backups in the NFL can come in and look like that, and that's what Mariota gives us.

Was nice to see after such a disastrous run in TEN -- I was one of those guys who thought he was shot. Same as I thought about Booker. Both guys surprised me with their play this year.

 If we get some semblance of an interior line and some quality help at CB and Arnette/Abram develop, we could be ok this year. With a D that can get an occasional stop, our record would be much different.

Here are some of the guys I am sick of seeing on the field for us:

  • Littleton. Guy has underperformed all year and Kwiat can't do it all himself
  • Nixon. Flat out never been good and completely lost the game for us tonight.
  • Lawson. 7th year in the NFL, and not a contributor
  • Joyner. He's served his time, he's contributed, but not enough.
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6 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Personal foul on Kwiat at the end of the game was complete bull####. Seriously, how are defenders supposed to stop themselves in those moments when the offensive player is going down and helmets collide in transition. Raiders likely lose either way, but eff that call.

Well, in this day and age, you lower the head, you get the flag.

But that's a really tacky flag to pull that late in the game on a bang-bang play where Herbert was never in danger. 

How this was called, and there was no flag when the defender lowered his head into Agholor's ribs, though? I have no idea. 

Same with the PI call late in the game that put the Chargers in the red zone. How you call that, and not the more blatant and obvious DPI in the previous series as we were driving? Again, have no idea.

Par for the course.

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18 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I wouldn't understand why Carr would get any hate from tonight. He got injured. 

I hope he's OK and can come back to play out the season.

I guess this is also exactly why we spent the dough on Mariota -- gives us a credible chance in games if he goes down. Actually refreshing to see after all this time of very sketchy backups. Not many backups in the NFL can come in and look like that, and that's what Mariota gives us.

Was nice to see after such a disastrous run in TEN -- I was one of those guys who thought he was shot. Same as I thought about Booker. Both guys surprised me with their play this year.

 If we get some semblance of an interior line and some quality help at CB and Arnette/Abram develop, we could be ok this year. With a D that can get an occasional stop, our record would be much different.

Here are some of the guys I am sick of seeing on the field for us:

  • Littleton. Guy has underperformed all year and Kwiat can't do it all himself
  • Nixon. Flat out never been good and completely lost the game for us tonight.
  • Lawson. 7th year in the NFL, and not a contributor
  • Joyner. He's served his time, he's contributed, but not enough.

That was about seeing Mariota at the helm vs Carr because you know... the reason we have lost every game since he took over was Carr. 

Mariota did better than I expected but we did see glimpses of why he got run out of TENN and is the backup. Now I know who Trubisky reminds me of- it is Mariota. There are stretches of great play and making some nice throws but then there are throws that a HS QB could make and he misses it. He made a number of plays with his feet and ran very hard. Too hard if he was the starting QB actually. You wouldn't want your starting QB to run like that and expose himself to injury. That being said, I appreciated the effort which I suspect is highly fueled with him being very aware his NFL career needs a jumpstart if he wants to be more than a backup ever again. He played as hard as he could for sure. Almost lead us to the victory. 

Littleton has been getting about 50% snaps after coming back versus 100% before being out. Morrow has taken his snaps. With Morrow out though... not much of a choice. 

I think Joyner is out of position. I think he needs to be at FS, that is where he excelled with the Rams before we brought him over. Also, if we went out and got Wade Phillips to be out DC then I think he could get a lot more out of Littleton and Joyner as he did with the Rams when Joyner was a very good S and Littleton was the best cover LB in the game. 

I don't think we had much choice to play a good amount of Lawson and Nixon with the injuries. 

I agree that we need a DT that can be disruptive. If we stayed in a 4-3ish base (nickle is really everyones base these days) a DT that can get a couple of sacks and cause the Oline to spend some of their game plan to the center should allow Cle and Maxx to be more effective on the edge to get more sacks and pressure on the QB. If we got Son of Bum for our DC then I we are looking at a 3-4ish base and maybe that means we need to look at a LB? I think we need to know who are DC is to really know what we need to do to bring players in or out that will fit the scheme. As for the defense in this game, I don't think a short week is enough for us to see how Rod does or does not make an impact on the D as the DC. He has a couple of games to show some improvement and that is going to be an audition for him to get the gig moving forward (assuming he wants it- maybe he is getting old and doesn't want that much responsibility now?) 

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42 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Well, in this day and age, you lower the head, you get the flag.

But that's a really tacky flag to pull that late in the game on a bang-bang play where Herbert was never in danger. 

How this was called, and there was no flag when the defender lowered his head into Agholor's ribs, though? I have no idea. 

Same with the PI call late in the game that put the Chargers in the red zone. How you call that, and not the more blatant and obvious DPI in the previous series as we were driving? Again, have no idea.

Par for the course.

The crazy thing with the offensive PI which was so obvious the booth and the x-ref dude all agreed was that they were looking to call defensive PI against us! Just ridiculous. 

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5 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I agree that we need a DT that can be disruptive. If we stayed in a 4-3ish base (nickle is really everyones base these days) a DT that can get a couple of sacks and cause the Oline to spend some of their game plan to the center should allow Cle and Maxx to be more effective on the edge to get more sacks and pressure on the QB. If we got Son of Bum for our DC then I we are looking at a 3-4ish base and maybe that means we need to look at a LB? I think we need to know who are DC is to really know what we need to do to bring players in or out that will fit the scheme. As for the defense in this game, I don't think a short week is enough for us to see how Rod does or does not make an impact on the D as the DC. He has a couple of games to show some improvement and that is going to be an audition for him to get the gig moving forward (assuming he wants it- maybe he is getting old and doesn't want that much responsibility now?) 

All for kicking the tires on Wade but I'd be really wary of a guy who would come in to install his specific system in lieu of what works best to maximize the guys we have. We barely have a rush now and hard to see Cle and Maxx be better in a 3-4, 2-gap 5-technique than as edge rushers/3-tech linemen.

You also need to have really good outside LBs to make plays as edge defenders out of a stand-up stance, which we don't have.

Good news is that with so many needs on D, Wade could build a 3-4, I just worry it would be "old guy comes in to dogmatically install a system that worked 5 years ago" than work with what you have and build to the best defensive front scheme to fit the offenses we do in the division and today's NFL.

Base nickel is more of a 4-2 look. I've seen it as a 3-3-5, but I just think we need the bodies up front until we can build to a different alignment.

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  • Hankmoody changed the title to Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread - turns out a bad D is still bad even if you fire the bad DC that made them bad, but we won a 2 yard challenge so we got that going for us.
  • Hankmoody changed the title to ☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹

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