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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Witten is a Raider. Huh. Ok. Definitely not the Cowboy I was hoping for us to get. Depending on the money it can be good, he can definitely add veteran leadership to a young offense. Seemed to have some left in the tank and played decently well.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
Michael Gehlken
@GehlkenNFL
Cowboys DT Maliek Collins says in text message he has agreed to terms with the Raiders. So, Collins and TE Jason Witten both headed from Dallas to Las Vegas.
Don't know anything about Collins but this is a decent write up.
https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2020/3/15/21179485/the-case-for-and-against-the-cowboys-re-signing-free-agent-maliek-collins
@GehlkenNFL
Cowboys DT Maliek Collins says in text message he has agreed to terms with the Raiders. So, Collins and TE Jason Witten both headed from Dallas to Las Vegas.
Don't know anything about Collins but this is a decent write up.
https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2020/3/15/21179485/the-case-for-and-against-the-cowboys-re-signing-free-agent-maliek-collins
Hankmoody
Footballguy
This is a YUGE signing. Very important. It ensures Witten won't be back in the broadcast booth in 2020, so we got a bargain at his salary.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Carl Nassib is a good under the radar addition. 3 yr $25 million with $17 guaranteed.
Jeff Heath on a 2 year $8 million deal.
Jeff Heath on a 2 year $8 million deal.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Maliek Collins as well. Loading up on some Boys.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Not sure I understand the Witten signing whatsoever when we seem to have some solid, young TE options in Waller and Moreau. Seems like a waste of time and money.
Mariota I can see as a defensible signing -- get some reasonable starting experience and likely more dependable than anyone we had behind Carr. Problem is I have zero faith in Mariota -- I don't trust him whatsoever, either as a guy who can game manage or lead a team to victory. But if he's a safety net that allows us to double down on Carr, so be it.
Good to hear Nick Kwiatkowski is a solid rotational player -- good to have depth, and if he can progress to a dependable option, great.
Littleton makes any of my misgivings or ambivalence above obsolete -- this was the kind of move the Raiders absolutely needed to make in FA, and they did it. LOVE having this guy on our team, and hope we aren't done looking at truly disruptive and impactful signings like this.
This is far different from years past when we'd let guys like Littleton get signed elsewhere, and just settle with signings like the other 3 above that left me scratching my head wondering what the heck we were thinking.
Mariota I can see as a defensible signing -- get some reasonable starting experience and likely more dependable than anyone we had behind Carr. Problem is I have zero faith in Mariota -- I don't trust him whatsoever, either as a guy who can game manage or lead a team to victory. But if he's a safety net that allows us to double down on Carr, so be it.
Good to hear Nick Kwiatkowski is a solid rotational player -- good to have depth, and if he can progress to a dependable option, great.
Littleton makes any of my misgivings or ambivalence above obsolete -- this was the kind of move the Raiders absolutely needed to make in FA, and they did it. LOVE having this guy on our team, and hope we aren't done looking at truly disruptive and impactful signings like this.
This is far different from years past when we'd let guys like Littleton get signed elsewhere, and just settle with signings like the other 3 above that left me scratching my head wondering what the heck we were thinking.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Some rumors about trading for Slay AND he just changed his twitter pic to that of him in the Coliseum.
I wonder if trade is agreed as long as a contract extension is in place?
What would you be willing to give up for him?
I wonder if trade is agreed as long as a contract extension is in place?
What would you be willing to give up for him?
SDJohnny
Footballguy
Not a first, maybe two thirds. We're going to have to give him a boatload of money too.
ICON211
Footballguy
I don't get the Witten signing either, but they did use many TEs last year and he is a great locker room guy, so not really a big deal.
I am no fan of Mariota, but Mayock loved him coming out of college and maybe he becomes Gruden's new Gannon. I can see similarities there and as someone pointed out if Carr does not play well they can give Mariota a shot where they really had no viable backup before.
I think Kwiatkowski is more than a rotational player. Really sneaky good signing and he will probably start at middle LB.
Littleton and Kwiatkowski should really improve the LB play.
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
Kwiatkowski plays hard and isn't afraid of contact. Kid is better than his combine numbers.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I agree. I saw more than rotational ability when he got his chance with the Bears last year. He seems like one of those guys that gets discounted because he doesn't have the fancy numbers on some chart but is just a dang baller when it comes to playing games. My favorite play of him last year was him coming downhill on a blitz against the Vikings. I think it was Cook went to pick him up on it. On a previous play I think he had given him a swim or spin or something.... this one he just bull rushed him. DESTROYED the RB so badly he took him into the QB and almost got the sack using the RB to do it- lol. Someone else cleaned it up and got the sack.Cold Dead Hands said:
It wasn't a given that Trevathan would be able to keep his job with the Bears. This was one of the big choices that the Bears needed to make this off-season. I like Trevathan but I am wondering if the Bears made the wrong choice.
This was a move for a starter and not a rotational player. He doesn't have the name recognition or the track record but when he got his chances with the Bears to be in the lineup he played well consistently and even added some big plays. My only concern with him is he needs to up his coverage ability.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I somehow totally forgot that Foster Moreau blew out his knee in December.ICON211 said:
While I don't think Witten has the wheels or agility to be anywhere near impactful, let alone dominant, having a safety valve in one of the most dependable set of hands in the TE business is not terrible at all.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I love that these moves have greatly eased "need" in the draft.
With ARI getting Nuk, not only is Jeudy's availability essentially guaranteed, it also makes Lamb a solid possibility as well.
We need one of those WRs at 12. After that, we can be totally flexible:
Chris Harris would be phenomenal but not sure we can afford him. Logan Ryan would be great and Ronald Darby may be a good buy low candidate but I think we may be looking at Eli Apple (who I think is way too up and down to be dependable).
As far as safeties to fill KuJo's gap I'd also like us looking at Vonn Bell, Damarious Randall, maybe even Ha-Ha Dix (though I think he may not be worth what he might ask for at this point of his career)
DTs like Michael Pearce could help shore up the insider, or a guy like Whitworth, Peters, or Demar Dotson could help rotationally on the O line.
With ARI getting Nuk, not only is Jeudy's availability essentially guaranteed, it also makes Lamb a solid possibility as well.
We need one of those WRs at 12. After that, we can be totally flexible:
- Go BPA (hopefully we look at D, and specifically C/DB -- I'd HATE to lose KuJo but I imagine that's a possibility)
- still look at LB to build through youth (though Littleton and Nick K are 26 -- still young enough to get some longer term usage)
- trade back for more draft capital
Chris Harris would be phenomenal but not sure we can afford him. Logan Ryan would be great and Ronald Darby may be a good buy low candidate but I think we may be looking at Eli Apple (who I think is way too up and down to be dependable).
As far as safeties to fill KuJo's gap I'd also like us looking at Vonn Bell, Damarious Randall, maybe even Ha-Ha Dix (though I think he may not be worth what he might ask for at this point of his career)
DTs like Michael Pearce could help shore up the insider, or a guy like Whitworth, Peters, or Demar Dotson could help rotationally on the O line.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Apple to Raiders confirmed:
https://www.times-standard.com/2020/03/18/cornerback-eli-apple-agrees-to-terms-with-raiders/
https://www.times-standard.com/2020/03/18/cornerback-eli-apple-agrees-to-terms-with-raiders/
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This seemed likely to happen. It’s worth a shot. It’s a passing league. We need 4 or 5 solid CBs. Injuries happen. 4 WR sets happen.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I guess I question whether Apple is a solid CB. I've seen him be solid -- I've more often seen him be trash. He was a huge bust on the Giants (believe it was Landon Collins who went so far as to call him a cancerous presence) and his performance was really variable with the Saints. Grades at a 63.8 from PFF at the position -- don't have too much context but seems middling.
Still, a young 6'1 200+ CB is a great asset in a passing league, to your point. I'm just wary of bringing in a guy who in the games I've seen him play in since coming to the league, draws tons of PI laundry when that's exactly the sort of thing we as a team need to eliminate from our repertoire.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I need to see the contract details to know if I am good or not with Apple coming on board. If it is a "Hey, come in and compete to win the starting role" type of contract, I am good. If it is a "Hey, come in and be one of our starters" kind of contract... I can't say I would like that.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Truthfully, as much as I'm not sold on Apple, I think he could and maybe should slot in as a starter as the team stands right now.
I am excited about prospects Trayvon Mullen and Isaiah Johnson who seem promising but are still unproven at this time. Same with Nick Nelson.
We get some experience with Ken Crawley, but he's a journeyman. Who's left? Keisean Nixon, DJ Killings, Jordan Brown, Dylan Mabin, Nevon Lawson?
Can you say any of these names are clearly better options than Apple? I can't.
It's why I asked about cap room -- Byron Jones was the dream, but glad we didn't make him the highest paid corner. I'd love us to bring in a guy like Logan Ryan or Ronald Darby who may not be All Pro but is young and cheap and could push to be a starter. Isn't Trumaine Johnson, Prince Amukamara and Xavier Rhodes FAs? May carry too much expensive but would love to see if we can reel one in on a team-friendly contract.
And no question we should be looking to add secondary depth in the draft.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Apple is definitely not a CB that I would consider as solid consistently but my point was that the Raiders need CBs and need to bring in guys that should be able to help. This can’t be the last CB brought in through FA and the draft.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Hi all. I just got a very odd text from my friend with the Raiders. WARNING THIS IS PROBABLY NOTHING, but I thought I'd share.
My friend is very careful about what he shares with me and how. The text I just received had a playful twist on a word that leads me to believe the Raiders are back on the trail to obtain Slay. Let's just say, the text really "slew" me.
It may turn out to be nothing, but the fact I got the text means, at the barest of minimums, the Raiders are still in the hunt for Slay. Watch the news today and tomorrow boys, hopefully he's right. But again, pure speculation and conjecture at this point.
My friend is very careful about what he shares with me and how. The text I just received had a playful twist on a word that leads me to believe the Raiders are back on the trail to obtain Slay. Let's just say, the text really "slew" me.
It may turn out to be nothing, but the fact I got the text means, at the barest of minimums, the Raiders are still in the hunt for Slay. Watch the news today and tomorrow boys, hopefully he's right. But again, pure speculation and conjecture at this point.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
He also got a 50 million extension with 30 million guaranteed. I think this is why/how we lost out. Love what the raiders are doing and can't wait for the draft. At least we gave it a shot
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Can it infect those in the Nevada environment?CGRdrJoe said:
Silver & Black
Footballguy
The Raiders just declined the option to play in Oakland for 2020 so I don't think this is going to be an issue.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Why wouldn't it be able to?
I have a condo and plane tickets to Vegas April 18-24. I'm gonna be pissed if this thing is still going full blast. I know we won't get anything out of the draft even but we really didn't plan to get much anyway, we were going to Vegas for many other reasons. We were in Nashville last year and spent about 8 hours total at the draft - and only about 20 minutes closer than 5 blocks away. Our Vegas plans included mostly golf, food, and shows.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am going from having no time to do anything to lots of time... sigh....
Anyways, I read recently a study that seemed to suggest that the virus did not do well in hot and humid places. No humidity in Vegas but plenty of hot to go around. Here is to warmer weather killing this b-####### bug off.
Anyways, I read recently a study that seemed to suggest that the virus did not do well in hot and humid places. No humidity in Vegas but plenty of hot to go around. Here is to warmer weather killing this b-####### bug off.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
fingers crossed for you.
I was thinking infection rate for those who are outside the most of the time, esp those building the stadium.
Stay healthy peoples
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Australia struggling with it coming out of summer. Hot and Humid mostly everywhere there
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I guess I disagree that adding in a 3rd and 5th and the huge hit in guarantee money isn't too much -- definitely a case as Slay is elite at the position, but we've been down the road of sinking too much cap space into one player and how that can hamstring us. It would have been great, but I don't want to break bank to shore up our squad.
Hope for the best for you as well -- I'm normally a glass half full kind of guy, but I highly doubt concerns and even safeguards will abate in 4 weeks -- if anything I would expect the same or worse developments over that span with things starting to come back to normalcy around mid-summer.
We'll see.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Ah I see. It does die quicker in heat, but humidity and surface look to be bigger factors. Definitely can still get it though, although probably would spread much less rapidly.
My main hope is that the infrastructure is ramping up by then because if so things might start kicking up. All of these precautions now aren't so much about the disease or the risk, it's that the medical system can't handle it at current operational levels. They need more people, more room, and mostly more supplies and meds. The phrase "flatten the curve" really means "spread the sick out over a longer window" so that they don't have to treat 30 million people in a week - we don't have the facilities for that. But if those 30 million get sick over a 6 month period that will buy them enough time to get more antivirals, more test kits, heck maybe even a cure/vaccine/alternate treatment to shorten the recovery time - they are already looking at anti- malarial meds as a possible basis. Right now they just need to buy time, that's what all the closings and distancing is focusing on.Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I'm not hopeful though at this point. At least I'll have some cheap vouchers for the future.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Agholar seemed to be pretty decent as a slot. Good insurance if Renfrow gets hurt, can spell him and can perfrom as the 4th WR. It is a 1 year deal.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I would like one more veteran CB. Maybe Rhoades or Ryan.
I would also like to see if the money is right for Eversen Griffen. You can't have too many pass rushers and though he is on the decline of his career still damn effective. I would be interested to see him kick inside with Maxx and Clelin on the edges in obvious passing downs. I think thwt is a recipe for QB pressure/sacks.
I would also like to see if the money is right for Eversen Griffen. You can't have too many pass rushers and though he is on the decline of his career still damn effective. I would be interested to see him kick inside with Maxx and Clelin on the edges in obvious passing downs. I think thwt is a recipe for QB pressure/sacks.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Good cheap signing to protect our cash flow (I see the scrutiny of our cap space and cash flow is again being picked up by media...sigh) on a prove it deal.
Love the approach we're taking -- knowing we're looking to fill out our WR1 through the draft, let's get guys who have flashed talent on sensible 1 year deals to provide depth and see if they can shake out in our system and for our needs.
Agholor comes with some baggage -- his drops over the last year or so were puzzling and frustrating to watch, especially as he has a lot of talent and has flashed it at times (SB was a good example). He's an up and down player right now and this deal pays him accordingly -- we didn't reach or overpay and we retain great flexibility. A lot of our FA signings over the last month or so may not pan out but there is very little risk in seeing if they can't add some depth.
Really looking forward to the draft. Can't wait!
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am still looking for us to hit the draft pretty much the same way before FA.
CeeDee or Jeudy with our first pick followed by BPA LB or CB. If Claypool is there in the 3rd going back to WR again with some more defensive players. Later potentially an Oline or two but overall, mostly D.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree -- this is really like the Mack draft, although in this case I think we have more certainty that a guy we both want and need - Jeudy or Lamb -- will be there for us. Not sure we didn't simply get lucky with Mack falling to us back then -- either way, it's going to be a no-brainer pick at 12.
And agree with using BPA D with 19, but with FA we have a lot of options. I am not as familiar with this year's class in terms of depth and drop-off at the LB, S, and CB positions, only that in general, blue chip CB/S players seem to be scarcer/more valued. We definitely need some help raising the bar in our secondary -- I have faith that guys like Mullen, Abram, and Johnson showed tonsof promise. But they are still relatively unproven, and nothing like adding more depth and potential there.
All this to say is that while we have more flexibility to draft other positions at 19, or even trade back, I hope we don't and just get BPA D -- I trust Mayock to find gold in the later round picks.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Those three 3rd rounders make me salivate. I mean, we got Maxx, Isaiah and Moreau with our three 4's last year followed by Renfrow in the 5th... what is Mayock going to do with trips a full round earlier.
I really am hoping we can get Claypool with one of those. Our WR corps would be awesome... CeeDee/Jeudy, Williams, Caypool, Jones outside
Renfrow, Agholar slot.
With out Oline, running game and Waller?!
joey
Footballguy
was racking my brain for 5 seconds on this one..."Jones? Jones? Who the heck is Jones?". I forgot we acquired Zay last year.
I totally agree that adding a WR in the 1st and another in the 3rd would be a big boost but, honestly, I'd be fine with just a WR in the 1st and heavily bias towards D overall, and O-line just cuz, with the rest of our picks. I think a top 3 WR line up of "rookie WR stud" (he says with fingers firmly crossed) plus Williams and Renfrow to round out the top 3, plus Waller and the running game. I'm super hopeful about that.
Alternate scenario: I don't follow college football but hear that this is a deep WR class. Could we go D with BOTH of our 1st rounders, and then take a couple of WRs in the 3rd instead? Thoughts on that?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
We NEED that top #1 WR. It was obvious last season that we had weapons but the offense was sorely lacking that top guy. Think of this... D's were able to gameplan for Waller and the running game as the top threats. Williams flashed early and then was hobbled for the rest of the year but he isn't a #1 guy. He is, IMO, an excellent #2 guy but as soon as AB went freaking haywire that was my biggest concern. I remember even writing a post being elated about how Williams played early because it looked like he could be that #1 guy... I am not sure if it was just he doesn't have that in him or if it was injury but his skill set is definitely built around being that #2 guy. If we have a true #1 that frees up the entire offense. Williams becomes more dangerous. Waller gains mismatches that can't be compensated for with help or else risk our #1 and Williams breaking you. NO way can they put extra men in the box to keep us in.
Yes, it is deep.... but I don't think we can wait until the 3rd round to get that bona fide #1. Claypool is close in my mind which is why I would want him in the 3rd if still there but I can't say he is a CeeDee or Jeudy level. He really isn't a 3rd round guy but because this class is so deep maybe he falls? If so, he is absolutely worth going back to WR after spending our top pick on one. If he isn't then I am good with DPA overall with preference to D.
We can't wait for our #1 WR. We need to get him. Both CeeDee and Jeudy look like those bona fide #1 guys. This WR draft class IS deep but it is also VERY strong on top. Get that legit #1 and watch our offense be a powerhouse top 3 offense.
BTW- I just read we got Agholar for around a million on that one year deal. THAT is a deal.
We should keep in mind two things on offense... 1) Incognito is old and not the most stable guy in the world. Cooper did well while he was serving his suspension 2) Gabe Jackson has been rumored to be on the trade block. Those things in mind- do not be too surprised if they go G with one of those 3's. If not, I expect them to get one or even two linemen later for sure.
Littleton went a long way to shoring up that LB corps and Nick from Chicago (can't remember how to spell his last name) I think he is a good under the radar pick up. I am less excited about what we did with the secondary. If we have a choice of a LB or a CB of basically the same 'value' on that second first rounder, I would like the CB but won't cry about another LB.
I didn't like losing Joseph. I want Worley back. I also want Dion Jordan or Mayowa back as well. Dion flashed. Mayowa showed he is a dang good rotational pass rusher (though I feel like he might not be happy about not getting extended). Will Compton earned a spot as a backup.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Totally agree @Chadstroma -- was a good thought exercise, @joey, but with two Top 20 picks, we need to find one bona fide WR1 in the first round. Unless a guy like Simmons or Okudah fell (which I highly doubt), I will be a little PO'd if we aren't taking a Jeudy/Lamb with our first pick at 12.
Despite the criticism (some earned, most not), Carr remains an incredibly efficient, intelligent, and talented QB who can run Gruden's offense well. What he lacked was a full complement of talent and healthy starters, and while the latter is always an issue in the NFL, getting a blue chip WR1 completes the picture for Carr to truly have everything he needs to shine:
We have a super solid O-line -- Assuming all starters return and play at their talent level without regression or dip from age, we will have a Top 5 line. Our left side looks super-solid with Miller and Incognito, Hudson is still one of the best Cs in the league, and Trent Brown at OT on the right is a juggernaut. Gabe Jackson at RG has recently struggled with injury and below-par play, but if he can regain his self, he will be solid. I'd like to see us bring in some more rotational OGs for depth in the 3rd round or beyond.
While we could use a thumper short yardage back (would like to see what a guy like A.J. DIllon, Darius Bradwell, or Kelton Moore can do for us if taken late in the draft), we're set in the running game as well. Jacobs is true deserving OROY (he got hosed), and an incredibly versatile back who can be a bell cow. Ingold looks soilid blocking for him as well.
Waller looks like he's developing into an elite TE, and while Witten's prime is way behind him, he still brings those talented hands. Moreau looks liek he can develop into a solid two-way TE when healthy as well.
So that leaves WR. I like what Ty and Hunter Renfrow bring to the table. Agholor is an intriguing add but has lots to prove. Zay Jones was good depth last year but nothing special. We'll see what guys like Ateman and Doss can be, but still long shots.
A true WR1 is the last piece in what could turn us from an offense with potential to a hard-to-stop playoff-caliber attack.
I am agnostic between Jeudy and Lamb. I like Lamb's physicality and his production after the catch. He's a human highlight reel. While Jeudy doesn't have that same physical edge I think he's the most polished route runner and has elite separation skills which we need in the short/middle passing game. He has speed to threaten deep as well, and can easily play X, but I see him excelling as the Z to take advantage of his separation skill. He can line up in both roles and excel, and I think he fits the profile needed in this offense a hair more than Lamb.
I'd be thrilled with either. I am going to be disappointed if we don't get one of them with our first round picks. It's the position of greatest need, and while this year has incredible depth, let's use a later round pick to get more depth (love the Claypool target) -- but let's use that first pick on the best of the best in this class.
Despite the criticism (some earned, most not), Carr remains an incredibly efficient, intelligent, and talented QB who can run Gruden's offense well. What he lacked was a full complement of talent and healthy starters, and while the latter is always an issue in the NFL, getting a blue chip WR1 completes the picture for Carr to truly have everything he needs to shine:
We have a super solid O-line -- Assuming all starters return and play at their talent level without regression or dip from age, we will have a Top 5 line. Our left side looks super-solid with Miller and Incognito, Hudson is still one of the best Cs in the league, and Trent Brown at OT on the right is a juggernaut. Gabe Jackson at RG has recently struggled with injury and below-par play, but if he can regain his self, he will be solid. I'd like to see us bring in some more rotational OGs for depth in the 3rd round or beyond.
While we could use a thumper short yardage back (would like to see what a guy like A.J. DIllon, Darius Bradwell, or Kelton Moore can do for us if taken late in the draft), we're set in the running game as well. Jacobs is true deserving OROY (he got hosed), and an incredibly versatile back who can be a bell cow. Ingold looks soilid blocking for him as well.
Waller looks like he's developing into an elite TE, and while Witten's prime is way behind him, he still brings those talented hands. Moreau looks liek he can develop into a solid two-way TE when healthy as well.
So that leaves WR. I like what Ty and Hunter Renfrow bring to the table. Agholor is an intriguing add but has lots to prove. Zay Jones was good depth last year but nothing special. We'll see what guys like Ateman and Doss can be, but still long shots.
A true WR1 is the last piece in what could turn us from an offense with potential to a hard-to-stop playoff-caliber attack.
I am agnostic between Jeudy and Lamb. I like Lamb's physicality and his production after the catch. He's a human highlight reel. While Jeudy doesn't have that same physical edge I think he's the most polished route runner and has elite separation skills which we need in the short/middle passing game. He has speed to threaten deep as well, and can easily play X, but I see him excelling as the Z to take advantage of his separation skill. He can line up in both roles and excel, and I think he fits the profile needed in this offense a hair more than Lamb.
I'd be thrilled with either. I am going to be disappointed if we don't get one of them with our first round picks. It's the position of greatest need, and while this year has incredible depth, let's use a later round pick to get more depth (love the Claypool target) -- but let's use that first pick on the best of the best in this class.
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