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*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (1 Viewer)

The Noid said:
Not for nothing, but the Packers drafted a QB in the FIRST round this year (that they traded up for!) and they seem to be doing ok avoiding a QB controversy. If Wentz and/or the team were playing to their potential, it wouldn't be an issue. Drafting Hurts isn't making Wentz play bad (or if it really is, he/we have bigger issues), but it exacerbates it a ton, especially in a city where the back-up QB is always looked at as the magic answer anytime the team struggles (and that was BEFORE Foles/SB52.)

I think the Eagles had Hurts high on their draft board just as part of the overall due diligence they do on every player for the draft. And they probably had him rated way higher than most other teams because when their pick came up in Round 2 he was still there and they may have even had a 1st round grade on him and saw him sitting there and thought: "We rated this guy as one of the best QBs in this draft that we think should have went 30 picks ago. That's never-before-seen differential value for one of our picks. Let's grab this (what we believe to be) highly-valuable asset and then figure out the rest later." 

This is a FBG forum, so most of us are familiar with VBD for FFB. But real-life is different than FFB. Going WR-WR-WR in a 2-WR league because in the 3rd round your 4th overall WR was still on the board can be justified for many reasons. But in real-life there's plenty of things that make that a bad strategy because you have 53-man rosters with tons of other positions to fill, you have personality factors, you have the optics from the fans and media, etc.

They thought they were outsmarting everyone. Instead, they heaped more fuel on a team that had already been smoldering and it's one of many reasons the team is now a full-blown dumpster fire. 
I think the Packers are thinking of the future there. They obviously rated Love high but they have a franchise Future HoFer who might retire at some point. Maybe they are trying to groom him for the future and think Rodgers unlike Favre would also help coach him up and stuff have him ready. Also with Rodgers he's been injured a bunch over the last few yrs and GB hasn't invested big in a back up QB. It's Either all in on Rodgers or their hopes are gone over the last decade. I just can't see any way you'd defend this from an Eagles stand point other then what we talked about draft night of a possibility of Wentz calling a Luck in the near future. Only reason I think this gets justified. Other then this your last sentence I believe is more in line with the pick. Thinking they were outsmarting everyone. 

 
seems like it is out:

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports Eagles coach Doug Pederson is no longer calling every play on offense and could give up more responsibility moving forward. 

Per reporter Jeff McLane, Pederson has "handed the reins over" to passing game coordinator Press Taylor "several times in recent games." Pederson could give Taylor "more responsibility starting Sunday in Green Bay." Senior offensive assistant Rich Scangarello has apparently also been calling some plays in two-minute situations since the beginning of the season. 32-year-old Taylor had previously never called plays "at any level." The play-calling hasn't exactly been stellar for the Eagles, but offensive line woes and Carson Wentz's struggles remain bigger issues. This is unlikely to spark a renaissance for the final five games of the season. 

Pretty funny if true, because i haven't seen any good plays in the 2-minute offenses, and if Pres has been calling plays several times in recent games, i would love to know which plays those were. 
I'm taking this with a grain of salt till I see it confirmed elsewhere. When I saw another report and saw that it was first by McLane I didn't believe it until it was confirmed else where. 

 
seems like it is out:

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports Eagles coach Doug Pederson is no longer calling every play on offense and could give up more responsibility moving forward. 

Per reporter Jeff McLane, Pederson has "handed the reins over" to passing game coordinator Press Taylor "several times in recent games." Pederson could give Taylor "more responsibility starting Sunday in Green Bay." Senior offensive assistant Rich Scangarello has apparently also been calling some plays in two-minute situations since the beginning of the season. 32-year-old Taylor had previously never called plays "at any level." The play-calling hasn't exactly been stellar for the Eagles, but offensive line woes and Carson Wentz's struggles remain bigger issues. This is unlikely to spark a renaissance for the final five games of the season. 

Pretty funny if true, because i haven't seen any good plays in the 2-minute offenses, and if Pres has been calling plays several times in recent games, i would love to know which plays those were. 
sounds like they both aren't very good at calling plays

 
I'm taking this with a grain of salt till I see it confirmed elsewhere. When I saw another report and saw that it was first by McLane I didn't believe it until it was confirmed else where. 
This could point to how the offense has seemed to fall off a cliff this year after not being this bad last year. 

Doug seems to be trying to replicate how Andy did things in KC from this perspective. I believe Andy allowed Nagy followed by Doug and then Beienemy to do the same. 

 
Carson Wentz hits taken in 2020:
- 144

Total rush attempts for all Eagles RBs in 2020:
- 189
Explains quite a bit.....and a lot of it is coaching....when the OL is struggling like it has been its up to the coaching staff to design plays to get rid of the ball quickly and feed their best weapon....they have failed miserably on both.  

 
FWIW:

Pederson clarifies that he is still "the play caller," nothing should be interpreted as he's given up all play calls in the past.

**Note the “all”

 
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Doug Pederson says Jack Driscoll — not Matt Pryor — will start at right tackle for the Eagles against the Packers.

11th different OL combination in 12 games. 

LT: Jordan Mailata
LG: Isaac Seumalo
C: Jason Kelce
RG: Jason Peters
RT: Jack Driscoll

 
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I remember going into week one, we are all saying "wow, our Oline is hurt and WAS has a great D line. I'll bet we do a lot of quick throws to help" - then, instead we went with the "give up 72 sacks" route.

Could be Doug. Could be Carson isn't capable of processing a defense to know where the quick throw is.
it actually looks very similar to the Bears offense this year, also having massive o-line struggles.

the bears with another former KC OC as head coach, as well as the infamous Bill Lazor at OC, so...

 
Wentz has NEVER not looked over his shoulder basically. He was thrust into starting as a rookie a full week before the season started. He has an MVP type season the year after and magically as soon as the Foles debates start he slips. Foles goes and we double down with Hurts. You’ll struggle to find ANY team who has handled a franchise QB worse than what you’re seeing here. 
Except none of that should cause an inability to read the field, or massive accuracy issues.

 
Explains quite a bit.....and a lot of it is coaching....when the OL is struggling like it has been its up to the coaching staff to design plays to get rid of the ball quickly and feed their best weapon....they have failed miserably on both.  
I'm not convinced it's all the OL struggling either. In the NFL you simply need to usually get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds, regardless.

 
Wentz has NEVER not looked over his shoulder basically. He was thrust into starting as a rookie a full week before the season started. He has an MVP type season the year after and magically as soon as the Foles debates start he slips. Foles goes and we double down with Hurts. You’ll struggle to find ANY team who has handled a franchise QB worse than what you’re seeing here. 
Except none of that should cause an inability to read the field, or massive accuracy issues.
Yeah, that's really the point of my OP where I brought up the Aaron Rodgers/Jordan Love situation: Drafting Hurts isn't the reason Wentz is playing bad, or even why we have a QB controversy. Chants for Sudfeld would be echoing across Philly, too. But the Hurts pick has definitely adding an additional layer of mess to the whole thing.  

 
I'm not convinced it's all the OL struggling either. In the NFL you simply need to usually get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds, regardless.
Maybe not all, but more than one thing can be true and a contributing reason. We're about to put out our 11th different OL combo in 12 games. That can't be dismissed as a major factor. And a lot of the tape I've seen being analyzed shows the WRs aren't really great at getting separation for those quick throws to go to. Whether that's talent or scheme, :shrug:  

 
Except none of that should cause an inability to read the field, or massive accuracy issues.
Added pressure will affect accuracy. I’m sure you’ve heard of athletes pressing before. 
 

As far as reads you’d have to be more specific. The plays he’s given are read and progression specific and that comes directly from the coaches. Just because he missed an open guy doesn’t mean the read or progression was wrong. The Goedert under throw play I posted is a prime example. Are there guys open? Yes. But his read and progression are for Goedert. He got what he wanted but missed the throw and Goedert didn’t adjust well. 

Yeah, that's really the point of my OP where I brought up the Aaron Rodgers/Jordan Love situation: Drafting Hurts isn't the reason Wentz is playing bad, or even why we have a QB controversy. Chants for Sudfeld would be echoing across Philly, too. But the Hurts pick has definitely adding an additional layer of mess to the whole thing.  
It’s obviously a lot more nuanced then Hurts selection equals Carson’s struggles. 

OL (11 different starters in 12 weeks), some of the worst weapons in the game, injuries, poor coaching and QB controversy since year 2. 

Out of all of them which is the easiest to fix?

 
I'm not convinced it's all the OL struggling either. In the NFL you simply need to usually get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds, regardless.
Again it’s more nuanced than that. IDEALLY you want to get the ball out quick. Now if no one is open you’re doing what exactly? A QB like Wentz (Rodgers, Big Ben, McNabb etc) will improvise thus holding the ball longer and increasing chances of being hit. This isn’t an Eli, Peyton Manning or Brady who will just fall down or force it. While it’s not “all” on the OL a LOT of it is. He’s getting hit and sacked a ton and the pockets are rarely clean 

 
The problems of this team have snowballed

  • The OL play has been atrocious due to injuries and/or replacements being inserted are not even remotely satisfactory.
  • Carson is not even making multiple reads and is not seeing open players.  He locks in to a single receiver most of the time.
  • Carson is taking too long to stay in the pocket and really hasn't demonstrated in a lot of the games he is capable of throwing the ball away to live to play another down.
  • Carson's accuracy has not been good and some of the decisions he has made throwing into coverage.
  • The playcalling has not been great and we don't have either a scheme to address the weaknesses of the QB and the OL.
  • What is the team doing when they watch tape QB coach, Head coach, etc?  There has been regression week to week. 
 
Insein said:
Again I don't think they're bad across the board. 

2018 - Goedert, Maddox, Sweat, Pryor, Mailata (All have played significant time and contributed, not all good but they have played)

2019 - Dillard, Sanders, JJAW, Miller and Thorsen (This was average to below average. Sanders is great, Dillard can be good, JJAW, Miller and Thorsen awful)

2020 - Jury still out on this one but some good potential. Only really bad pick was Hurts and not because of him. Just the wrong pick for this team. 

How much is players are bad and how much is coaches can't develop? That's the problem with this team. 
Well, let’s look year by year, eff typing them all out, so Eagles Drafts at Pro Football Reference

In evaluating draft picks I give most consideration to what the player achieves in the rookie contract, excepting a couple of premium positions (QB, OT, pass rusher).  So many variables when it comes to considering extensions that I think it’s best to concentrate on the known 4 (or 5) year period the player is under the teams control.

I expect starters out of Rnds 1-3, depth contributors in the 4th, and anything you get below that is cream pretty much

2016 - Still believe Wentz is the right pick, Seumalo became a solid baseline type starter in Year 3.  Smallwood and Vaitai were solid given where they were picked.

2017 - Barnett is a solid starter, but no more.  Mid 1st round pick should have given a higher return.  Notable alternatives from later in the round are Marlon Humphrey, Tre’Davious White and TJ Watt.  The only other player still on the team is Nate Gerry, who is arguably not roster worthy.

2018 - Goedert is a good player, but all 4 years of his rookie contract overlap with Ertz.  He was on the field no more than 65%of the time over those two years, and until this year was below Ertz as a target priority.  Good evaluation, but bad use of resources IMO.  No guarantee an ascending player like this wants to sign an extension here at this point either if that’s your argument.  Notable alternatives were DJ Chark, James Washington and Fred Warner.  

Maddox and Josh Sweat are playable depth, which is fine for 4th round picks.  Mailata is a great pick.

2019 - Dillard looked below average at LT and disastrous at RT that year.  Only 1 year, but a less than promising start and may have been overtaken permanently by a 7th round pick.  Notable alternatives were Josh Jacobs, Hollywood Brown, Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown.

Sanders is a good pick, although drops and fumbles are an issue, JJAW, no point going over that. Besides Metcalf, Terry McLaurin was another alternative.  Nothing else left from that draft.  Think about that.

2020 - Look I still like Reagor, but Justin Jefferson is playing like a Top 10 WR in the league, in a run first offense with Kirk Cousins at QB.  Turns out, he’s not just a slot guy and can get deep.  Poor evaluation.  Jalen Hurts pick was a waste of resources, regardless of his merit as a player.  If Taylor is so raw he’s not playable in front of these LBs, its a worry.  If he’s not ready for significant playing time on D starting next year, then this was a reach.  Driscoll looks like a good pick and Hightower is already = Torrey Smith ie gets open deep and catches half the catchable balls, not bad for a 5th rounder.

A couple of nice mid / late round picks like Mailata and Driscoll don’t make up for the terrible returns in early rounds.  2018 and 2019 also suffered because of Howie’s ridiculous veteran trades.

Do you really think coaching is a bigger problem than the above?  I’m not saying they’ve been good, but there’s such a lack of young talent on this team and this is the reason.  It would be indefensible to fire Pederson and keep Howie based on this.  

 
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Well, let’s look year by year, eff typing them all out, so Eagles Drafts at Pro Football Reference

In evaluating draft picks I give most consideration to what the player achieves in the rookie contract, excepting a couple of premium positions (QB, OT, pass rusher).  So many variables when it comes to considering extensions that I think it’s best to concentrate on the known 4 (or 5) year period the player is under the teams control.

I expect starters out of Rnds 1-3, depth contributors in the 4th, and anything you get below that is cream pretty much

2016 - Still believe Wentz is the right pick, Seumalo became a solid baseline type starter in Year 3.  Smallwood and Vaitai were solid given where they were picked.

2017 - Barnett is a solid starter, but no more.  Mid 1st round pick should have given a higher return.  Notable alternatives from later in the round are Marlon Humphrey, Tre’Davious White and TJ Watt.  The only other player still on the team is Nate Gerry, who is arguably not roster worthy.

2018 - Goedert is a good player, but all 4 years of his rookie contract overlap with Ertz.  He was on the field no more than 65%of the time over those two years, and until this year was below Ertz as a target priority.  Good evaluation, but bad use of resources IMO.  No guarantee an ascending player like this wants to sign an extension here at this point either if that’s your argument.  Notable alternatives were DJ Chark, James Washington and Fred Warner.  

Maddox and Josh Sweat are playable depth, which is fine for 4th round picks.  Mailata is a great pick.

2019 - Dillard looked below average at LT and disastrous at RT that year.  Only 1 year, but a less than promising start and may have been overtaken permanently by a 7th round pick.  Notable alternatives were Josh Jacobs, Hollywood Brown, Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown.

Sanders is a good pick, although drops and fumbles are an issue, JJAW, no point going over that. Besides Metcalf, Terry McLaurin was another alternative.  Nothing else left from that draft.  Think about that.

2020 - Look I still like Reagor, but Justin Jefferson is playing like a Top 10 WR in the league, in a run first offense with Kirk Cousins at QB.  Turns out, he’s not just a slot guy and can get deep.  Poor evaluation.  Jalen Hurts pick was a waste of resources, regardless of his merit as a player.  If Taylor is so raw he’s not playable in front of these LBs, its a worry.  If he’s not ready for significant playing time on D starting next year, then this was a reach.  Driscoll looks like a good pick and Hightower is already = Torrey Smith ie gets open deep and catches half the catchable balls, not bad for a 5th rounder.

A couple of nice mid / late round picks like Mailata and Driscoll don’t make up for the terrible returns in early rounds.  2018 and 2019 also suffered because of Howie’s ridiculous veteran trades.

Do you really think coaching is a bigger problem than the above?  I’m not saying they’ve been good, but there’s such a lack of young talent on this team and this is the reason.  It would be indefensible to fire Pederson and keep Howie based on this.  
The lack of getting Star power is concerning but the guys that have the potential to be All pros (Wentz, Sanders, Goedert) feel like they're being wasted with this coaching staff. Is Goedert a waste of resources or just not getting talented player involved enough? Sanders is criminally under used and the fumbling/drops can be coached up as well. We all know about Carson. 

Howie isn't a great GM and has made many mistakes but I think those mistakes get amplified when guys don't pan out. Really frustrating when they go elsewhere and do well (Jones, Douglas, Fort).

 
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The problems of this team have snowballed

  • The OL play has been atrocious due to injuries and/or replacements being inserted are not even remotely satisfactory.
  • Carson is not even making multiple reads and is not seeing open players.  He locks in to a single receiver most of the time.
  • Carson is taking too long to stay in the pocket and really hasn't demonstrated in a lot of the games he is capable of throwing the ball away to live to play another down.
  • Carson's accuracy has not been good and some of the decisions he has made throwing into coverage.
  • The playcalling has not been great and we don't have either a scheme to address the weaknesses of the QB and the OL.
  • What is the team doing when they watch tape QB coach, Head coach, etc?  There has been regression week to week. 
I agree.  It’s rarely one thing that causes something to go massively wrong or right, but a combination of many things.  It’s not all on Carson or the OL or the coaching or the playcalling.  But all of those things together create a perfect storm.

 
Well, let’s look year by year, eff typing them all out, so Eagles Drafts at Pro Football Reference

In evaluating draft picks I give most consideration to what the player achieves in the rookie contract, excepting a couple of premium positions (QB, OT, pass rusher).  So many variables when it comes to considering extensions that I think it’s best to concentrate on the known 4 (or 5) year period the player is under the teams control.

I expect starters out of Rnds 1-3, depth contributors in the 4th, and anything you get below that is cream pretty much

2016 - Still believe Wentz is the right pick, Seumalo became a solid baseline type starter in Year 3.  Smallwood and Vaitai were solid given where they were picked.

2017 - Barnett is a solid starter, but no more.  Mid 1st round pick should have given a higher return.  Notable alternatives from later in the round are Marlon Humphrey, Tre’Davious White and TJ Watt.  The only other player still on the team is Nate Gerry, who is arguably not roster worthy.

2018 - Goedert is a good player, but all 4 years of his rookie contract overlap with Ertz.  He was on the field no more than 65%of the time over those two years, and until this year was below Ertz as a target priority.  Good evaluation, but bad use of resources IMO.  No guarantee an ascending player like this wants to sign an extension here at this point either if that’s your argument.  Notable alternatives were DJ Chark, James Washington and Fred Warner.  

Maddox and Josh Sweat are playable depth, which is fine for 4th round picks.  Mailata is a great pick.

2019 - Dillard looked below average at LT and disastrous at RT that year.  Only 1 year, but a less than promising start and may have been overtaken permanently by a 7th round pick.  Notable alternatives were Josh Jacobs, Hollywood Brown, Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown.

Sanders is a good pick, although drops and fumbles are an issue, JJAW, no point going over that. Besides Metcalf, Terry McLaurin was another alternative.  Nothing else left from that draft.  Think about that.

2020 - Look I still like Reagor, but Justin Jefferson is playing like a Top 10 WR in the league, in a run first offense with Kirk Cousins at QB.  Turns out, he’s not just a slot guy and can get deep.  Poor evaluation.  Jalen Hurts pick was a waste of resources, regardless of his merit as a player.  If Taylor is so raw he’s not playable in front of these LBs, its a worry.  If he’s not ready for significant playing time on D starting next year, then this was a reach.  Driscoll looks like a good pick and Hightower is already = Torrey Smith ie gets open deep and catches half the catchable balls, not bad for a 5th rounder.

A couple of nice mid / late round picks like Mailata and Driscoll don’t make up for the terrible returns in early rounds.  2018 and 2019 also suffered because of Howie’s ridiculous veteran trades.

Do you really think coaching is a bigger problem than the above?  I’m not saying they’ve been good, but there’s such a lack of young talent on this team and this is the reason.  It would be indefensible to fire Pederson and keep Howie based on this.  
Howie is the iceberg, Doug is the POS ship design, Wentz the captain

 
Q Watkins out with Covid Unrelated Illness tomorrow. Jordan Howard was promoted from the Practice squad for tomorrows game in GB. 

 
And a below average chef can turn decent ingredients into bland, tasteless crap.
a) I believe Pederson is the only play caller having a winning record with Nick Foles.

b) this whole thread is a bash-fest over the offense lacking talent.

 
Well color me shocked:

People inside the #Eagles building believe drafting Jalen Hurts is a big reason as to why Carson Wentz has lost his confidence, per @JayGlazer. Wentz won't admit it, but they see that as being the issue.

 
Colored me shocked 

Mike Kaye

@mike_e_kaye

4h

Sidney Jones has missed three consecutive games with an Achilles injury

 
One of the worst handled QB situations you’ll ever see. 

Just imagine if the Rams or Cowboys drafted a QB that early heading into this year. It actually takes effort to be this stupid. The QB position is strange we all know this. NO ONE does what we did 
Yep NE is arrogant but even they didn't do this. The only bad decision was trading Jimmy G I think out of it. This is really bad. 

 
Good thing is that we are closer to rock bottom. 

The pressure is on both Howie and Doug so they HAVE to start Hurts next week. This is their final nail. He’ll lose the next two and they’ll both be gone shortly thereafter 

 
You are now about to see Foles versus Wentz round 2 here and around the league. 

When Hurts does awful there’s gonna be an excuse. One that could also be applied to when Wentz was in but they won’t. 

You’re already seeing it with his pick and it will only snowball from here. 
I made the mistake to look at Bleeding Greens Facebook updates. Excuses already there. One guy already wants to trade Everyone not named Hurts and Reagor including Miles. 

 

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