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*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (3 Viewers)

i do like the report from ESPN today has mentioned Wentz is willing to adjust his contract for a trade. Makes total sense for him to land to a place where he might want to be more. Will be a fun few months, because i think this has to be done before the draft
This is where I think the agent is leaking reports not the team. Willing to adjust contract usually is agent speak. 

 
If we let the media drive a wedge in between the front office, HC and GM we are in a bad, bad place for a long time. 

And no, I don’t think they do or care what the media says at all. Ultimately they have to play well. If Wentz starts here and does well the questions will go away week by week. If Wentz leaves and plays well those questions will grow week to week. It works both ways. 
i think we need to remember all the reports and other info that has come out of the media with rumors about Wentz and the locker room from 2018 and on. We all seemed to blame Alshon in '18 when the report came out about how some in the locker room were really down on Wentz, but it may have grown exponentially.

Listening to the bleeding green podcast, it does seem that the reputation seems to be Wentz is "un-coachable". if that is from the coaching side, maybe they are in the wrong. but could also be Wentz is not the guy you want in your locker room for the next 3-5 years. 

 
I think if we let Wentz go for an underwhelming offer it’s going to be pretty depressing watching him turn it around on another team that gives him weapons while Hurts is exposed in his 2nd season. I don’t care if he begs for a trade, unless it’s a strong offer he stays and we draft one of the top WR round 1. 
Yeah and what happens when Hurts inevitable  :censored:  the bed like a few of us think he will and Wentz is gone and being a top 10 QB. I know for a fact there is gonna be fans who make every excuse in the book to defend him though just like they did with Foles and years prior people did with Vick. We are really gonna be depressed 

 
didn't read the whole article, but my guess is this is what the narrative will be off-season:

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/carson-wentz-to-eagles-thanks-for-the-big-contract-now-screw-you.html

really no way he can be on the team with this narrative
It’s been obvious Alshon is a cancer to the team for years now and they didn’t unload him because of the cap hit, no way they absorb this cap hit for anything short of outstanding. One article won’t change that...let’s hope. 

 
i think we need to remember all the reports and other info that has come out of the media with rumors about Wentz and the locker room from 2018 and on. We all seemed to blame Alshon in '18 when the report came out about how some in the locker room were really down on Wentz, but it may have grown exponentially.

Listening to the bleeding green podcast, it does seem that the reputation seems to be Wentz is "un-coachable". if that is from the coaching side, maybe they are in the wrong. but could also be Wentz is not the guy you want in your locker room for the next 3-5 years. 
If he was uncoachable I can’t imagine the vets on the team would take the stance they did. 

This reads to me like you have an idiot coach (I gave plenty of examples) and an inexperienced/ bad coaching staff dealing with an alpha style QB. If the QB, the photographic memory one, the MVP like one, the one that a majority of the league viewed as a top QB is dealing with a moron I can totally see why he’s done with it. The GM, HC and staff have been awful across the board. 

 
Gonna both sides this. If I'm Wentz and I see a guy like Alshon trash me in the media two years in a row and the team not only doesn't get rid of him, but keeps him on the active roster all year and then start him over players who are younger and better than him, then I see my offensive line be garbage, partly because they won't sit Peters who is getting me killed each week but he never gets benched, but then you bench me? Yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. But at the same time he's handling this like a child, apparently taking zero responsibility for his bad play. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Keeping Howie and Doug is going to set them back an extra year or two than it needs to be. Just delaying the inevitable rebuild. Need to nuke this team from orbit. Only way to be sure.

 
modogg said:
didn't read the whole article, but my guess is this is what the narrative will be off-season:

https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/carson-wentz-to-eagles-thanks-for-the-big-contract-now-screw-you.html

really no way he can be on the team with this narrative
This is horrible take by Mike Kaye. he's making assumptions on Wentz we have no idea that are true yet. It's a pretty bad article. I only read about 3-4 paragraphs here and it looks more like a hit piece then any sense of actual football analysis 

 
GoBirds said:
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall and see what’s really going down. Doug as a former QB you would hope would have a strength of being good with his QB. I do worry Carson is too mentally fragile for Philly and all his injuries and not coming through has gotten in his head. Still we know he has it in him to be a top QB, he goes somewhere with weapons we are going to loom real stupid. He’s always seemed like a good kid, it baffles me that he can’t see he deserves the bench this year. 
 

Let’s see what pick we end up with today, I don’t know there are any QB’s in play 5-10 range we should be in love with? I’m just not sold on Hurts but hope he proves me wrong if this is really how it’s going down. 
Nope I'd take Herbert and Burrow over everyone in this draft outside of Lawerence. Not a great class. Like I said to Woodson I like Lance not as big as I did on Wentz. I'm still not sure what to make of Mac Jones,  Not big fan of Wilson. I think Trask in the mid rounds could be serviceable starter with pieces around him and wouldn't touch Fields if you paid me $50M to draft him. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
If he was uncoachable I can’t imagine the vets on the team would take the stance they did. 

This reads to me like you have an idiot coach (I gave plenty of examples) and an inexperienced/ bad coaching staff dealing with an alpha style QB. If the QB, the photographic memory one, the MVP like one, the one that a majority of the league viewed as a top QB is dealing with a moron I can totally see why he’s done with it. The GM, HC and staff have been awful across the board. 
i get you don't like Howie and Doug, which makes sense too. the issue we have is that Lurie is likely keeping both. So at this point, are you just thinking Lurie is the one who has no sense and is causing this?

for me, the vets you point out are the linemen. My guess is Fletcher and Kelce did with the media was bring this up so we didn't have a huge mess in the lockerroom. these were before the Hurts games though and there hasn't been a peep since then (which is also good for the locker room). 

i think Kelce and Flecther did the right thing, but they did it more to make sure it didn't spiral out of control with the media and in the locker room. was more about the team, and less about just Carson

 
Pip's Invitation said:
What? His own agent is out to get him?
No I don't think his own agent is out to get him. I should probably clarify this post. I don't think Wentz is really the type who will speak his mind freely anonymously. The speak of wanting a trade and restructure seems like an agent. Agents will always try and do whats best for the client even if what the agent is doing is going about it wrong. They will sometimes even do stuff the player doesn't want them to do and defend it as "I know this game better then you let me handle the business side" when really they are trying to help themselves more then the player. This is why with Bryce Harper situation listening to Him and Boras I grew to actually appreciate Boras. He allowed his client to make his own decision and did everything he could to help him and not his own agenda. Bryce told him what he wanted and Boras respected his clients decision on that. 

The other part after agent should've had a comma as I was going into it could be another Alshon type rat or someone else in the Org who is pro Foles/Hurts with an agenda. 

 
Gonna both sides this. If I'm Wentz and I see a guy like Alshon trash me in the media two years in a row and the team not only doesn't get rid of him, but keeps him on the active roster all year and then start him over players who are younger and better than him, then I see my offensive line be garbage, partly because they won't sit Peters who is getting me killed each week but he never gets benched, but then you bench me? Yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. But at the same time he's handling this like a child, apparently taking zero responsibility for his bad play. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Keeping Howie and Doug is going to set them back an extra year or two than it needs to be. Just delaying the inevitable rebuild. Need to nuke this team from orbit. Only way to be sure.
How many years do you give it before enough is enough? The players are even saying they’re not good with Wentz being the scapegoat  

i get you don't like Howie and Doug, which makes sense too. the issue we have is that Lurie is likely keeping both. So at this point, are you just thinking Lurie is the one who has no sense and is causing this?

for me, the vets you point out are the linemen. My guess is Fletcher and Kelce did with the media was bring this up so we didn't have a huge mess in the lockerroom. these were before the Hurts games though and there hasn't been a peep since then (which is also good for the locker room). 

i think Kelce and Flecther did the right thing, but they did it more to make sure it didn't spiral out of control with the media and in the locker room. was more about the team, and less about just Carson
I once loved them both. They have literally destroyed what looked like a promising team in just about every facet in just 3 years. Cap is bad, drafts are bad, talent is bad, a lot of bad contracts, depth is bad, there’s a QB controversy AFTER paying one 100+ million. There is no defense of Howie or Doug at this point. Every single aspect is trending down. 

There hasn’t been a peep since for a few reasons. The team was eliminated and Hurts looks like trash. 

 
i get you don't like Howie and Doug, which makes sense too. the issue we have is that Lurie is likely keeping both. So at this point, are you just thinking Lurie is the one who has no sense and is causing this?

for me, the vets you point out are the linemen. My guess is Fletcher and Kelce did with the media was bring this up so we didn't have a huge mess in the lockerroom. these were before the Hurts games though and there hasn't been a peep since then (which is also good for the locker room). 

i think Kelce and Flecther did the right thing, but they did it more to make sure it didn't spiral out of control with the media and in the locker room. was more about the team, and less about just Carson
Kelce loves Wentz and so do Lane. From what I heard Carson was kind of off putting at first do to his religious beliefs but since then he's gotten better with it in the locker room. Talking to guys without pushing his opinion as the agenda or fact. At least from what I was told from someone close to Kelce. The vets really do love him but it seems the young guys like Hurts. I don't know if that is a negative about Wentz or the younger guys relate to Hurts better being the same age. 

 
Kelce loves Wentz and so do Lane. From what I heard Carson was kind of off putting at first do to his religious beliefs but since then he's gotten better with it in the locker room. Talking to guys without pushing his opinion as the agenda or fact. At least from what I was told from someone close to Kelce. The vets really do love him but it seems the young guys like Hurts. I don't know if that is a negative about Wentz or the younger guys relate to Hurts better being the same age. 
i would love to know how many other locker rooms are like this. is this just a Philly media driven thing or are there a lot of locker rooms with similar issues. 

 
Doug doesn't get it You have to keep playing Wentz and not allow Hurts to play games. You are killing Wentz momentum taking him out and taking him out of rhythm. This is what I hate the most of the 2 QB system. The only time this ever worked was at Florida with leak/Tebow because Leak wasn't the greatest QB. Talent wise Tebow was and also gave you some different skills Leak didn't have. For one year this worked but football being a copycat sport everyone tries it Saints fans like Taysom Hill but they are frustrated with how Brees is in rhythm they take him out for some Taysom Gadget play that nets little and use something else then go back to Brees and then the drive stalls. This happened a lot at Florida this year despite the points when Mullen did it to Trask to insert Emory Jones. This 2 QB system never works well. If you want to use Hurts as some gadget player should've drafted him as a WR/RB not a QB. 

Clark] Cris Collinsworth told me: “Talking to Doug, job 1 for him this offseason is to recreate the offense around what Carson Wentz does well. And maybe rein him in a little bit. And find a role for Jalen Hurts”

 
i would love to know how many other locker rooms are like this. is this just a Philly media driven thing or are there a lot of locker rooms with similar issues. 
I don't know what it is. Carson seems like but theres something that rubs people the wrong way about him sometimes. Maybe it's his personality or something? I don't know the guy personally and I've been wrong about people before thanks to my Aspergers and not reading a situation right too so theres that. He seems liked in the locker room. I know theres been other situations of guys pushing a religious agenda that rubbed players the wrong way. Having helped at Anthony Becth's camp and talking to coaches and players you learn some stuff. However locker room issues to an extent are kept in house and dirty laundry never aired in public (This is why many when the Bullying of Jonathan Martin came out defended MIA as Martin aired dirty laundry publicly) to an extent. You might get a brief cliff notes version. 

From the guys I talked to our media is brutal at times but NYC and is just as bad if not worse. Boston has the us against the world and if you aren't drinking Boston team kool aid they are running you out of town. Usually players will talk to others about situations and try to handle them in house without creating a scene. Most aren't going the TO route in causing a scene as it makes no one look good. There's unwritten locker room protocol these guys follow to a T. Biggest rule is you don't air dirty laundry in public. Next have an issue with someone be a man about it and talk it through with them. No one likes these anonymous sources and "it makes you a giant p***y and no respect from any of your teammates if caught" to quote one person. The next is if the problem can't be handled amongst yourselves you let the people in charge know coaches, GM, owner if possible. if they can't handle it then it goes to your Union Rep on the team (That would've been Malcolm Jenkins I think its Kelce/McLeod now but don't quote me). Media not knowing and commenting on anonymous sources makes it worse especially in this sort of situation where you have a rat in Jeffrey still on the team. 

 
The only rational thought:

If Carson Wentz is the one to go but both Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman keep their jobs:

1) nothing is going to be different
2) the Eagles organization is dumber than I thought
3) I am dumber than I thought for aggressively defending them

 
It took everyone like 6-7 years to hate the Phillies following the World Series win, so what the Eagles have done here in just 3 years is pretty special.

This^^

 
The only rational thought:

If Carson Wentz is the one to go but both Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman keep their jobs:

1) nothing is going to be different
2) the Eagles organization is dumber than I thought
3) I am dumber than I thought for aggressively defending them
I'm at that point too. I religiously have defended Howie for yrs but part of it is Florida biased in there as well (Graduated from UF). However I hated how a former coach (He who shall not be mentioned) treated him like some little kid and showed zero respect for him and was totally unprofessional. There is also stuff Howie has done really well that don't think he gets enough credit for. how he got rid of deadweight after said Disrespectful coach left, grabbing Wentz, trading Bradford, certain contract extensions, drafting Cox and Lane, saving said coach from really messing up said draft etc. Has he done a lot of wrong? Absolutely. I think Howie is an avg GM at this point but that shouldn't take away the good he did do here that people won't acknowledge. 

As for Doug I think he needs a OC. Seems loved by the players but at times he seems well over his head. I think he isn't showing that will he had when he got here to win the SB again after having won already now. That drive and determination seems gone. 

 
It would be the perfect cap to the NFC East for WFT to lose to our practice squad.
The way this is shaping up, with DET and NYG maybe winning, and CIN and ATL both losing, our game tonight could have a minimal effect on our draft spot.  It might even be locked into the 6th pick if this keeps up and Hou loses and car and den both winning.

 
As for Doug I think he needs a OC. Seems loved by the players but at times he seems well over his head. I think he isn't showing that will he had when he got here to win the SB again after having won already now. That drive and determination seems gone. 
He’s on record saying he wants more of a voice on offense. 

If players love a coach who’s the architect of arguably the worst team in franchise history I have a HUGE problem with that. 

 
It took everyone like 6-7 years to hate the Phillies following the World Series win, so what the Eagles have done here in just 3 years is pretty special.

This^^
The Phillies had issues after the WS. I was one of the few who called the demise on the old MLB Phillies board. Didn't believe it at first but after long discussions with another poster who was more into analytics and economic impact of signings and trades I got more on his side. Amaro was horrible and the team trended downward after winning. Didn't make the right moves. You got a ballpark that plays well to the mashers you build your offense. We won with a good rotation not 4 ACES. Should've kept Werth instead of resigning Lee. To fix that we had to fill the whole giving away prospects for Hunter Pence a serviceable OF but not long term solution. It doesn't matter what the guys we traded did in their career as this is more about the Phillies putting band aid on holes rather then fixing them. Can't fix all holes with FAs and Trades and gutting the farm. The Phillies were poor using their economical resources that provided zero value. Players traded for didn't live up to expectations and guys they signed to big money deals didn't live up to those expectations. I had very little issues with acquiring Roy Halladay. When you can get the best pitcher in baseball you do it. Unfortunately no one saw or predicted what happened there with injuries and all. 

For the Eagles we were never expected to win the SB in 2017. The coaches weren't even sure they could be good in 5 yrs let alone when they got there. The situation there was a bigger mess then, then it is now believe it or not. What the team and fanbase failed to forget is despite how great the win felt we were still long off from being perennial contenders every year

 
The Phillies had issues after the WS. I was one of the few who called the demise on the old MLB Phillies board. Didn't believe it at first but after long discussions with another poster who was more into analytics and economic impact of signings and trades I got more on his side. Amaro was horrible and the team trended downward after winning. Didn't make the right moves. You got a ballpark that plays well to the mashers you build your offense. We won with a good rotation not 4 ACES. Should've kept Werth instead of resigning Lee. To fix that we had to fill the whole giving away prospects for Hunter Pence a serviceable OF but not long term solution. It doesn't matter what the guys we traded did in their career as this is more about the Phillies putting band aid on holes rather then fixing them. Can't fix all holes with FAs and Trades and gutting the farm. The Phillies were poor using their economical resources that provided zero value. Players traded for didn't live up to expectations and guys they signed to big money deals didn't live up to those expectations. I had very little issues with acquiring Roy Halladay. When you can get the best pitcher in baseball you do it. Unfortunately no one saw or predicted what happened there with injuries and all. 

For the Eagles we were never expected to win the SB in 2017. The coaches weren't even sure they could be good in 5 yrs let alone when they got there. The situation there was a bigger mess then, then it is now believe it or not. What the team and fanbase failed to forget is despite how great the win felt we were still long off from being perennial contenders every year
Whether you called it or not the team and staff were loved for a long time after winning the WS. What Howie and Doug have done in 3 years is remarkable 

 
Looking back at that Cinci tie, it kills us in so many ways.  We really should have gone for it on 4th down.

If we had beat Cinci:   A win tonight would win us the div and put us in playoffs.
If we had lost to Cinci:  A loss tonight would lock us into a top 5 pick, likely pick 4.

Either of those would have been good lol

 
According to FO, Eagles have gotten 2nd worst draft return since 2015

According to OverTheCap, Eagles have 2 of the top 10 worst contracts in the NFL and 2nd worst cap situation in NFL

You can make the case Howie deserves more blame than anyone else in Philadelphia.

 
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Whether you called it or not the team and staff were loved for a long time after winning the WS. What Howie and Doug have done in 3 years is remarkable 
My point is there were a lot of people who defended Amaro and the team who literally hated the team before. Football is a sport and maybe the only one where it's easier to go from last to SB contender in a year or 2 if things break your way. 

 
According to FO, Eagles have gotten 2nd worst draft return since 2015

According to OverTheCap, Eagles have 2 of the top 10 worst contracts in the NFL and 2nd worst cap situation in NFL

You can make the case Howie deserves more blame than anyone else in Philadelphia.
Sounds about right, Howie is extremely overrated. At some point Lurie has to learn you would think but he did pick Howie over Big Red years ago and how does that look now. 

 
Lets add more depression. Justin Jefferson has broken the record for most Rec yards by a Rookie. 
Honestly, no one should care. If he was here and Reagor was anywhere else we'd probably be having a similar conversation lamenting another bad pick. No one looks good in this offense right now.

 
It's very possible Carson hasn't heard any of these media takes yet about him wanting to be traded. He doesn't use social media very much. He doesn't listen to local radio at all. He hasn't had an interview since being benched. Some one needs to ask him directly.

 
It's very possible Carson hasn't heard any of these media takes yet about him wanting to be traded. He doesn't use social media very much. He doesn't listen to local radio at all. He hasn't had an interview since being benched. Some one needs to ask him directly.
Yep this is all here say and assumptions and people knows what happens when they assume. I tweeted Mike Kaye about his article telling him this seems like a bunch of assumptions and if you have something worthwhile not being shared in the media don't hide it and put it out there. If not maybe don't make assumptions. Then again the dude does write for the same paper as Mark Eckel who put out the Jackson hit piece after he was cut and Eckel almost ruined his career when numerous other beat guys defended Desean and called out the article for poor takes and too many holes. I usually like Mike Kaye and his articles but that article was nothing more then a hit piece 

 
It's very possible Carson hasn't heard any of these media takes yet about him wanting to be traded. He doesn't use social media very much. He doesn't listen to local radio at all. He hasn't had an interview since being benched. Some one needs to ask him directly.
I agree we need to hear it from his mouth and there's a good chance he never said it. 

That said, any player who says they "Haven't heard" the reports or "don't look at any of that" is lying.  I'm 99% sure he has read the reports despite what he says.

 
Lets add more depression. Justin Jefferson has broken the record for most Rec yards by a Rookie. 
this one is a tougher call. At draft time i think Raeger was a good pick, and maybe better than Jefferson. I think the much bigger issue is taking JJAW where they did. that guy has no path to a future with this team.

And seeing how 2 top picks have failed at WR, it does beg to wonder if it is the team or the individual player at fault. Could be an issue with Doug game planning for WRs or Carson throwing to his TEs over the WRs

 
I agree we need to hear it from his mouth and there's a good chance he never said it. 

That said, any player who says they "Haven't heard" the reports or "don't look at any of that" is lying.  I'm 99% sure he has read the reports despite what he says.
I don't think Carson does. Al Michaels did a pregame interview with him on a SNF game once and joked about something that had been brewing on talk radio and Carson was genuinely perplexed at what he was talking about. He had no idea it was even a topic. He lives in a bubble.

 
I don't think Carson does. Al Michaels did a pregame interview with him on a SNF game once and joked about something that had been brewing on talk radio and Carson was genuinely perplexed at what he was talking about. He had no idea it was even a topic. He lives in a bubble.
Maybe, but we won't ever know.  Carson uses instagram, he sees whats out there.  As his wife is dealing with his crying baby, I'm sure he sits on the couch and scrolls lol

 
Things are clearing up now.  If all the games stay the way they are going,

PHI wins, we pick 8th/9th (depending on Denver result)
WAS wins, we pick 5th/6th (depending on Houston result)

 
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Bigboy10182000 said:
I try to see everyone’s point of views and understand them but just can’t with this one. 

His teams are getting worse and worse. Look at our records.   

His QB’s are getting worse and worse. Foles, Wentz and now Hurts  

His in game management is getting worse and worse. I mean this is a guy not using timeouts when trying to go for 2 with games on the line. Going for 2 down 4. Going for 2 when a FG puts you down 3. Hell just last week when asked why he punted on one 4th down and not the other he said because he got frustrated. 

Also if Hurts is a Howie guy Doug can simply deactivate him to avoid the drama. He didn’t. What’s that tell you? He’s a Doug guy and Doug plans to “build the offense around Wentz and still have packages for Jalen”. He STILL doesn’t get it  

If you think Wentz can still be a top 10 QB somewhere else and Doug is a lesser problem I don’t know what else to tell you. The great coaches maximize their talent. Doug has done about a poor a job of that as you can do. Everything from not seeing how a second round QB affects a team to countless pressers where he sounds so lost and detached. There’s just so much. 

Im sorry but Doug has been an absolute disaster in every measurable way this season. 
Doug has failed in a number of ways this season, but Carson bears some responsibility for his play, both in his some of his terrible on field decisions, and in how he prepares.  There's no excuse for a 5th year vet to have footwork as sloppy as his is.  If you have replays available, watch Carson's footwork as he throws in comparison to *any* competent vet QB.  Every offseason you read stories about how some player is working with some external coach to hone their technique in some way.  It's clear that Wentz is doing nothing when in comes to improving his performance in the technicalities of playing QB.  Hopefully this season has been a reality check for him and he focuses on improvement as a player rather than scheme and play calling.

If he does, I believe he can be a top 10 QB again, but it's mostly up to him.

Edit to add: I certainly wouldn't object if Doug were fired, as long as Howie is gone as well, but I don't think Doug is the biggest reason for Wentz's performance this season.

 
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Doug has failed in a number of ways this season, but Carson bears some responsibility for his play, both in his some of his terrible on field decisions, and in how he prepares.  There's no excuse for a 5th year vet to have footwork as sloppy as his is.  If you have replays available, watch Carson's footwork as he throws in comparison to *any* competent vet QB.  Every offseason you read stories about how some player is working with some external coach to hone their technique in some way.  It's clear that Wentz is doing nothing when in comes to improving his performance in the technicalities of playing QB.  Hopefully this season has been a reality check for him and he focuses on improvement as a player rather than scheme and play calling.

If he does, I believe he can be a top 10 QB again, but it's mostly up to him.

Edit to add: I certainly wouldn't object if Doug were fired, as long as Howie is gone as well, but I don't think Doug is the biggest reason for Wentz's performance this season.
I don’t disagree completely. My major issue is that every QB under a Doug has regressed. I don’t think it’s due to them all not preparing. I honestly question whether or not this staff even thinks Wentz has mechanical issues. His footwork and progressions in his rookie season were totally different. Is that from him or the staff?

 
I don’t disagree completely. My major issue is that every QB under a Doug has regressed. I don’t think it’s due to them all not preparing. I honestly question whether or not this staff even thinks Wentz has mechanical issues. His footwork and progressions in his rookie season were totally different. Is that from him or the staff?
Which is mind boggling, as he was a QB and would think it would be a strength of his. 

 

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