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2021 Pittsburgh Steelers - 9/25: Ben playing. Dionte and Watt OUT


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1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

All 32 teams sent scouts to his Pro Day. He moved up a ton due to the senior bowl, so many people view him as a 3rd rounder now, but the significant interest might push him into the late 2nd/early 3rd, where he may or may not be worth it. I like him, but I like him at our 3rd round pick, not our 2nd. 

Well ####.  Perhaps the Ohio State C is there in the third then.

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Man, there is going to be a crazy number of cap-casualty cuts in the next week.  And these dude will be forced to take way under-market 1-2 year deals.  Might be some better players available at the minimum who want to play for Tomlin and the Steelers.  

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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Well ####.  Perhaps the Ohio State C is there in the third then.

Hopefully Creed Humphrey (OK) or Trey Hill (Georgia) falls to us in the 3rd if Meinerz is gone. (and they might be better than him)

Ideal first 3 rounds is OT/LB/C, and RB as a priority in the later rounds. I think there's only 4-5 RBs worth 1st - 3rd round pick, and I don't think a 1st round RB is worth it. I think Najee/Etienne go near the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd, Javonte goes early/mid 2nd before us, and Carter/Gainwell go early 3rd. I just don't think it works out to be a value. If we can trade down from 24 to 31/32 and get an RB there and an extra 3rd round pick, I'd be more ok with that. But I'm still in the camp that 1st round RB isn't worth it when there's better value still available. 

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5 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Hopefully Creed Humphrey (OK) or Trey Hill (Georgia) falls to us in the 3rd if Meinerz is gone. (and they might be better than him)

Ideal first 3 rounds is OT/LB/C, and RB as a priority in the later rounds. I think there's only 4-5 RBs worth 1st - 3rd round pick, and I don't think a 1st round RB is worth it. I think Najee/Etienne go near the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd, Javonte goes early/mid 2nd before us, and Carter/Gainwell go early 3rd. I just don't think it works out to be a value. If we can trade down from 24 to 31/32 and get an RB there and an extra 3rd round pick, I'd be more ok with that. But I'm still in the camp that 1st round RB isn't worth it when there's better value still available. 

If Harris is Derrick Henry with hands, you don't think he is worth the 24th pick?

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10 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Man, there is going to be a crazy number of cap-casualty cuts in the next week.  And these dude will be forced to take way under-market 1-2 year deals.  Might be some better players available at the minimum who want to play for Tomlin and the Steelers.  

It feels like a stars and scrubs situation, where the stars will still get monster contracts (mostly backloaded), and more people will get vet min deals. For the Steelers I think the prime time will be after the draft and main rush of Free Agency is over. Players that thought they'd get big deals, but nothing has materialized. There will be significant value available due to all the cuts. I don't think anyone will take less pay just to play for the Steelers and Tomlin though, not when they could potentially go to a team more considered to be a contender for a title. 

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18 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Man, there is going to be a crazy number of cap-casualty cuts in the next week.  And these dude will be forced to take way under-market 1-2 year deals.  Might be some better players available at the minimum who want to play for Tomlin and the Steelers.  

I agree and expect a lot of guys aiming for 1 year contracts in the hope that the cap will go up next year.

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17 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

If Harris is Derrick Henry with hands, you don't think he is worth the 24th pick?

He's not Derrick Henry with hands, so it doesn't matter. Harris doesn't break away from anyone, if he runs in a 70 yard TD its because all the CBs and Safeties fell down. He's a decent RB, but I just think the value is better with a later RB. 

I'd rather have:

  • Zaven Collins - Liam Eichenberg - Michael Carter OR
  • Darrisaw/Vera-Tucker/Cosmi - Javonte Williams (Trade Comp 4th to move up) - Center

Than:

  • Harris/Etienne - OT or LB - C

The talent difference to me between Zaven and people available late 2nd, or those OTs and Eichenberg (or another OT), is greater than Carter/Williams to those top 2 RBs. 

If Harris was as good as some other 1st round RBs I'd be on board, but to my eyes, he's just not Barkley/Zeke/McCaffrey-good. 

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6 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

He's not Derrick Henry with hands, so it doesn't matter. Harris doesn't break away from anyone, if he runs in a 70 yard TD its because all the CBs and Safeties fell down. He's a decent RB, but I just think the value is better with a later RB. 

I'd rather have:

  • Zaven Collins - Liam Eichenberg - Michael Carter OR
  • Darrisaw/Vera-Tucker/Cosmi - Javonte Williams (Trade Comp 4th to move up) - Center

Than:

  • Harris/Etienne - OT or LB - C

The talent difference to me between Zaven and people available late 2nd, or those OTs and Eichenberg (or another OT), is greater than Carter/Williams to those top 2 RBs. 

If Harris was as good as some other 1st round RBs I'd be on board, but to my eyes, he's just not Barkley/Zeke/McCaffrey-good. 

Etienne had a zoom with Tomlin and Canada today apparently.  

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Just now, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Etienne had a zoom with Tomlin and Canada today apparently.  

Yeah, he seems like someone that would fit Canada's scheme to a T. If they stay at 24 and take an RB I'll be disappointed, but if they can trade down, increase our picks, I'd be much more ok with it. 

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14 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Yeah, he seems like someone that would fit Canada's scheme to a T. If they stay at 24 and take an RB I'll be disappointed, but if they can trade down, increase our picks, I'd be much more ok with it. 

I just feel like in order to compete this year, we need a new starting RB, and those later round guys aren't ready to start and lead the team, whereas Harris and Etienne are (and Williams).  And there are no affordable free agents that can help either.

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5 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I just feel like in order to compete this year, we need a new starting RB, and those later round guys aren't ready to start and lead the team, whereas Harris and Etienne are (and Williams).  And there are no affordable free agents that can help either.

It just feels like Harris and Etienne are 2nd round RBs in most other years, but have gotten pushed up in the draft because the RB class is relatively thin. When a team has lots of needs, taking a player higher than they should be taken because of a thin class isn't usually best for the long term. It would probably make our team better next year, but make our team worse 2+ years from now. 

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4 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

It just feels like Harris and Etienne are 2nd round RBs in most other years, but have gotten pushed up in the draft because the RB class is relatively thin. When a team has lots of needs, taking a player higher than they should be taken because of a thin class isn't usually best for the long term. It would probably make our team better next year, but make our team worse 2+ years from now. 

I just think this year is different knowing it is Ben’s last, plus cap issues. 

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12 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I just think this year is different knowing it is Ben’s last, plus cap issues. 

That's true, but drafting a LT would also support Ben by keeping him upright. If the Steelers think the draft is deep enough at LT to get a great one in the 2nd, and a solid C in the 3rd, they could go RB in the 1st (I think Etienne over Harris if both are available, just for scheme). Using the all-in on this year theory, this draft would fall offense early and often, probably with some combo of RB/LT/C/WR in the first 4 rounds.

They did have a large group at Clemson's pro-day, so Etienne or Amari Rodgers could be future picks. 

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57 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

That's true, but drafting a LT would also support Ben by keeping him upright. If the Steelers think the draft is deep enough at LT to get a great one in the 2nd, and a solid C in the 3rd, they could go RB in the 1st (I think Etienne over Harris if both are available, just for scheme). Using the all-in on this year theory, this draft would fall offense early and often, probably with some combo of RB/LT/C/WR in the first 4 rounds.

They did have a large group at Clemson's pro-day, so Etienne or Amari Rodgers could be future picks. 

That is where I am coming from.  I think there are some known commodities out there for the Steelers on the line (Finney and Beachum).  Pouncey and Villanueva were not good last year.  So I don't look at these replacements as downgrades.  We need to upgrade RB and scheme.  We have the new OC, now he needs his lead back.  We have limited cap space, and rookies are cheap.  The rookie position most ready to compete at the NFL level is a RB, especially from a big program IMO.

 

So we draft RB early and draft for depth elsewhere.  Hopefully we get the C or LT of the future or Vince Williams replacement somehow too.

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Finney is at the Steelers complex as we speak.  Signing to be announced once passing of physical is confirmed.  

Jesse James cut by the Lions -- he should be next in line for a contract.

If Feiler goes, I expect the Steelers to pursue Beachum.  I think Banner is back period.  

Will get two more OL in the draft I assume too, along with a RB and depth elsewhere.

Edited by Leeroy Jenkins
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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Finney is at the Steelers complex as we speak.  Signing to be announced once passing of physical is confirmed.  

Jesse James cut by the Lions -- he should be next in line for a contract.

If Feiler goes, I expect the Steelers to pursue Beachum.  I think Banner is back period.  

Will get two more OL in the draft I assume too, along with a RB and depth elsewhere.

The Finney signing is huge.  

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9 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

The Finney signing is huge.  

It's a decent safety net, but huge might be an overstatement. There's a reason the Bengals cut him, and their O-line sucks. 

It's still important for the Steelers to draft a Center with a top 4 round pick, and hopefully develop them to compete this year and take over next year. 

IMO LT/LB/C are still the top 3 immediate needs. If they sign Spillane/Williamson then LB drops slightly but is still stop 3 for me. If they cut Nelson or Haden then CB replaces LB in top 3. Right now I have RB as 4th most important, purely because there's always late round RBs who produce. 

Yes, our Offense will be better next year if we take a RB in the 1st round, but if we go into next year with Bush, Vince, and Marcus Allen at LB, we'll be SOL come playoff time. 

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23 minutes ago, crushedspirit said:

Finney is a backup at best, and not the answer at C. Couldn't beat out a very average Pocic in Seattle, and another very average Hopkins in Cincinnati. Depth signing.

 

apparently he had issues staying in shape due to covid.

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Just now, Leeroy Jenkins said:

apparently he had issues staying in shape due to covid.

I read that ESPN article, and it sounded like spin from his agent. Hundreds of players went through the same scenario. He wasn't starting material before he left, so I don't see how he is now. A cheap depth signing, sure, why not. Still need one in the draft.

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On 3/11/2021 at 2:58 PM, steelers1080 said:

Hopefully Creed Humphrey (OK) or Trey Hill (Georgia) falls to us in the 3rd if Meinerz is gone. (and they might be better than him)

Ideal first 3 rounds is OT/LB/C, and RB as a priority in the later rounds. I think there's only 4-5 RBs worth 1st - 3rd round pick, and I don't think a 1st round RB is worth it. I think Najee/Etienne go near the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd, Javonte goes early/mid 2nd before us, and Carter/Gainwell go early 3rd. I just don't think it works out to be a value. If we can trade down from 24 to 31/32 and get an RB there and an extra 3rd round pick, I'd be more ok with that. But I'm still in the camp that 1st round RB isn't worth it when there's better value still available. 

Humphrey is going to have trouble in the pros will likely get blown up in the run game.

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On 3/12/2021 at 3:08 PM, crushedspirit said:

Finney is a backup at best, and not the answer at C. Couldn't beat out a very average Pocic in Seattle, and another very average Hopkins in Cincinnati. Depth signing.

 

He performed very well for the Steelers in the past and an upgrade over what they had prior to his signing. 

He can play center and guard and I feel better about the line with him back.

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2 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

Rumors that the Steelers are trying to re-sign Big Al. Please no. He can't run block at all, it's time to move on. 

Ugh.  Rather have Feiler, Banner, and Chuks fight it out for 2 spots with a rookie thrown in the mix as well.

If Javonte Williams is a possibility in the 2nd maybe they do go OT in the first, C in the third, WR in the 4th and then fill out defensive depth with the last picks.  

Assuming we get Tyson and Sutton/Hilton back and maybe sign Jesse James or another cheap #2 TE.

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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Ugh.  Rather have Feiler, Banner, and Chuks fight it out for 2 spots with a rookie thrown in the mix as well.

If Javonte Williams is a possibility in the 2nd maybe they do go OT in the first, C in the third, WR in the 4th and then fill out defensive depth with the last picks.  

Assuming we get Tyson and Sutton/Hilton back and maybe sign Jesse James or another cheap #2 TE.

Most recent rumors say "Steelers trying to re-sign Alualu, Feiler, Banner, Hilton, and Sutton". Doesn't mention Big Al, so I hope that was just a reporter throwing out a random thought, and not sources. Also, not sure we have enough $$ for those 5 signings, but I hope we sign them too. 

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49 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Raiders losing a Nelson Agholor could mean JuJu goes there. Is he worth more than him though??

He's younger, and has had better seasons than Agholar, who's coming off his best ever. I can see 14-15 mil per season. Raiders as a landing spot just moved into the top choice. Jets will have to offer more.

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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Raiders losing a Nelson Agholor could mean JuJu goes there. Is he worth more than him though??

Say one thing for Gruden and the Raiders. They picked up Waller and Agholor on scrap heap and turned their careers around and even just helped Devontae Booker land a few million. If this is were JuJu goes good for him, I think he'll have individual success.

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9 hours ago, JoeSteeler said:

Bud reportedly signs with the Titans - $16.5 million a year deal on a multi-year deal, Rapoport reports.

I am glad for Dupree cause the injury really could have cost him big.  He really came on in 2019 and was performing well in 2020 before the injury.   He should do well in Tennessee but I wonder how much of Bud's success was due to Watt.  

Oh well, best wishes to Bud (except when playing the Steelers)

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43 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I am glad for Dupree cause the injury really could have cost him big.  He really came on in 2019 and was performing well in 2020 before the injury.   He should do well in Tennessee but I wonder how much of Bud's success was due to Watt.  

Oh well, best wishes to Bud (except when playing the Steelers)

I think we may have just seen Dupree's peak. He'll still be a great run defender, but it's easier to get QB pressures when you're across from one of the best. Very happy for him though, because that big contract could mean a 3rd round pick next year for the Steelers. 

Hoping Juju gets a big deal as well. Though I'm worried that because the contracts might be a bit smaller than previous years due to cap, and could prevent high round comp picks. 

Wonder if we get more news soon about Steelers extensions, you'd think if more players would be cut for cap space that would already have happened. 

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12 hours ago, JoeSteeler said:

Bud reportedly signs with the Titans - $16.5 million a year deal on a multi-year deal, Rapoport reports.

I like Bud, think he is a good LB, and wish him well, but that is way more than he should get. They are paying for sacks that aren't going to be there. He is also 28 and coming off a mid-season ACL injury. He is likely going to have an off year. 

 

Good for him though. It does suck to see someone get hurt always, but a contract year is really bad. 

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On 3/12/2021 at 9:49 AM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

That is where I am coming from.  I think there are some known commodities out there for the Steelers on the line (Finney and Beachum).  Pouncey and Villanueva were not good last year.  So I don't look at these replacements as downgrades.  We need to upgrade RB and scheme.  We have the new OC, now he needs his lead back.  We have limited cap space, and rookies are cheap.  The rookie position most ready to compete at the NFL level is a RB, especially from a big program IMO.

 

So we draft RB early and draft for depth elsewhere.  Hopefully we get the C or LT of the future or Vince Williams replacement somehow too.

Pouncey was terrible, but Villanova was their best OLman by far. He was maybe only slightly above average, but compared to the rest of the unit that was by far the best.

 

We need lots of new guys on the OL

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15 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

Pouncey was terrible, but Villanova was their best OLman by far. He was maybe only slightly above average, but compared to the rest of the unit that was by far the best.

 

We need lots of new guys on the OL

I think Dotson was the best thing about the line last year.

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15 minutes ago, crushedspirit said:

Sorry about Bud, but it was easy to see he wasn't coming back, and same goes with JuJu. 

Losing Feiler will hurt an already paltry oline. He could have helped for sure, and was better if moved back to RT.

Yea, if they sign Villanueva to a deal similar to Feiler instead, I will be upset. 

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2 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Yea, if they sign Villanueva to a deal similar to Feiler instead, I will be upset. 

Reports were out that he was unhappy about being moved to G. He was the best RT on the roster. If they have to move Banner to the left, with Chuks on the right, this line will be much worse than it already is. Either way, it already is worse off without Feiler.

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11 minutes ago, crushedspirit said:

Reports were out that he was unhappy about being moved to G. He was the best RT on the roster. If they have to move Banner to the left, with Chuks on the right, this line will be much worse than it already is. Either way, it already is worse off without Feiler.

Ugh. Will he be a tackle though in LA?

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  • Godsbrother changed the title to 2021 Pittsburgh Steelers - 9/25: Ben playing. Dionte and Watt OUT

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