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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godsbrother
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steelers1080
Footballguy
Harris does not appear to have breakaway speed, he was frequently caught from behind by LBs and CBs. He's solid at getting 10 yard rushes, but has very few long runs/TDs. That probably won't increase at the next level with faster players. My other fear is that behind a poor offensive line he'll be like Barkley or Gurley (early years) where what potential he does have is wasted because he gets hit as soon as he gets the ball.
What are the metrics that will make this a successful pick? If he averages 5 yards per carry? If we make a deeper run into the playoffs since our running game actually functions? If he plays more than 12 games a season?
If he gets hurt and misses games each year, I'm sure that people will point that out as an excuse, but that's more expected with RBs than almost every other position. Just look at Barkley and Cmac.
This feels like when we needed a CB so we took Artie Burns, or needed a Safety so we took Terrell Edmunds. I think that Harris will be a better pro than both of them (combined), but the positional value hurts and it feels like a pick to optimize 1 year, as opposed to build for the future.
Tomlin apparently loves him, he was allegedly top 5 on the Steelers Big Board, eventually I'll come around and find reasons to be optimistic and believe that this was the right choice, I just need a minute to wallow lol. If JOK or Azeez become all-pros I will definitely come back to say I told you so, and if Harris leads us to the AFC Championship I'll come back for some crow.
He seems like a very upstanding young gentleman, and probably a great person to have around a young QB. Here's hoping that he single handedly turns around our running game for the next 5 years.
What are the metrics that will make this a successful pick? If he averages 5 yards per carry? If we make a deeper run into the playoffs since our running game actually functions? If he plays more than 12 games a season?
If he gets hurt and misses games each year, I'm sure that people will point that out as an excuse, but that's more expected with RBs than almost every other position. Just look at Barkley and Cmac.
This feels like when we needed a CB so we took Artie Burns, or needed a Safety so we took Terrell Edmunds. I think that Harris will be a better pro than both of them (combined), but the positional value hurts and it feels like a pick to optimize 1 year, as opposed to build for the future.
Tomlin apparently loves him, he was allegedly top 5 on the Steelers Big Board, eventually I'll come around and find reasons to be optimistic and believe that this was the right choice, I just need a minute to wallow lol. If JOK or Azeez become all-pros I will definitely come back to say I told you so, and if Harris leads us to the AFC Championship I'll come back for some crow.
He seems like a very upstanding young gentleman, and probably a great person to have around a young QB. Here's hoping that he single handedly turns around our running game for the next 5 years.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
The value of picking Harris all depends on how the line is addressed with the rest of the picks.
I would of been happy with a Jenkins-Humphrey-Sermon trio. Now we must see how this porous oline is addressed to support Harris, and the future QB. Please pass on Dickerson. Let someone else take the major injury risk that comes attached.
I would of been happy with a Jenkins-Humphrey-Sermon trio. Now we must see how this porous oline is addressed to support Harris, and the future QB. Please pass on Dickerson. Let someone else take the major injury risk that comes attached.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Alright, the mock is still alive. I doubt it survives tonight though, rumors that Schwartz could go in 2nd or 3rd. I wonder if Steelers' interest has other teams gunning for him.
geneyus
Footballguy
Harris is talented and if the Steelers address the OL in the following rounds he can be very successful. They need an RB who can move the chain and punch it in from 3 yards out. Harris can do both and there wasn't an RB on the roster that could do that last year. Points win games and Harris can score.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
I looked up Josh Jacobs as a potential comp to make me feel better. They are the same age.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
PFF thinks the Steelers should take Walker Little at 55. That would be a big reach there (though I like him).
The Jarvis Jones of offensive picks. They changed their process to be more focused on athletics in the first because Jones was so awful. Then they forgot that this year when they took Harris, who hid his likely sub 4.6 40. Congrats on not having an OLine and taking a player who couldn’t break a long run to save his life at Alabama of all places. 
Better be multiple OLineman today or this is going to be a pathetic season of trying to get Ben one last shot.
Better be multiple OLineman today or this is going to be a pathetic season of trying to get Ben one last shot.
This is so awful for a RB. Guy may not have been taken over Antonio Gibson last year.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The mock drafts that are popping up for the 2nd and 3rd rounds are not looking great for the Steelers. Runs on offensive linemen have only reaches available at 55, with the top tier defensive players gone as well. Walker Little might be the only OT left at 55 who is rated higher than 90th best player.
Most of the mocks have centers falling to 55, so the Steelers have a choice of Creed or Quinn, but then by round 3 the OT options are scarce.
The rest of this draft will be interesting, imo because we went RB in the 1st instead of the 4th we're going to end up with major holes somewhere on the roster. If the Steelers don't take an ILB today I hope they sign Avery Williamson to a 2-year deal before the 4th round starts.
very leveon bellish. bell was 6'1.5" 230lbs. and ran 4.6 at the combine. course bell's draft age was 21 and he went in the 2nd.
hopefully Harris has a better head and heart than bell.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Bell is a perfect example of why this is a terrible pick. He was productive behind a great offensive line and sucked behind a bad line.plus he also demonstrates how short a window you are going to get value out of picking a RB even if they end up successful.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
We should hope we can get Little at 55. There are only a few good LT prospects left
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
This site starts you in Round 2, after last night and has been much more accurate than PFF:
https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine
O-Line at 55 Mock:
Quinn Meinerz — C- Wisconsin-Whitewater
Benjamin St-Juste - CB, Minnesota
Daelin Hayes - EDGE, Notre Dame
Tommy Doyle - OT, Miami (OH)
Avery Williams - CB, Boise State
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
K.J. Britt - LB, Auburn
Freiermuth at 55 Mock:
Pat Freiermuth - TE, Penn State
Spencer Brown - OT, Northern Iowa
Kendrick Green - IOL, Illinois
Shaun Wade - CB, Ohio State
Malcolm Koonce - EDGE, Buffalo
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
Tuf Borland - ILB - Ohio State
Defense at 55 Mock:
Joseph Ossai - EDGE, Texas
James Hudson - OT, Cincinnati
Shaun Wade - CB, Ohio State
Trey Hill - IOL, Georgia
Avery Williams - CB, Boise State
Shaun Beyer - TE, Iowa
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine
O-Line at 55 Mock:
Quinn Meinerz — C- Wisconsin-Whitewater
Benjamin St-Juste - CB, Minnesota
Daelin Hayes - EDGE, Notre Dame
Tommy Doyle - OT, Miami (OH)
Avery Williams - CB, Boise State
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
K.J. Britt - LB, Auburn
Freiermuth at 55 Mock:
Pat Freiermuth - TE, Penn State
Spencer Brown - OT, Northern Iowa
Kendrick Green - IOL, Illinois
Shaun Wade - CB, Ohio State
Malcolm Koonce - EDGE, Buffalo
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
Tuf Borland - ILB - Ohio State
Defense at 55 Mock:
Joseph Ossai - EDGE, Texas
James Hudson - OT, Cincinnati
Shaun Wade - CB, Ohio State
Trey Hill - IOL, Georgia
Avery Williams - CB, Boise State
Shaun Beyer - TE, Iowa
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
yeah, no question they need a vastly improved OL or the Harris pick makes little sense to me. i'm not real optimistic, but think the Steelers have better scouts than you or me, and seem to have shown interest in a number of OL who may be available in rounds 3-6, so i do still look forward to seeing what happens.
I doubt Harris can run a 4.6, TBH. Alabama allows players to test for NFL scouts in the spring every year. There is a reason he’s 23, played there 4 years and we don’t have testing numbers. It’s a gross pick at a position they could have filled a number of ways. What’s worse is that he has a pretty awful yards created from Graham Barfield. So not only do I believe him to be a sub athlete, he’s also a RB that doesn’t even do much to create for himself. The one positive is that he’s good in the passing game.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
If Samuel is There:
Asante Samuel Jr. - CB, Florida State
Spencer Brown - OT, Northern Iowa
Kendrick Green - IOL, Illinois
Daelin Hayes - EDGE, Notre Dame
Malcolm Koonce - EDGE, Buffalo
Shaun Beyer - TE, Iowa
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
Asante Samuel Jr. - CB, Florida State
Spencer Brown - OT, Northern Iowa
Kendrick Green - IOL, Illinois
Daelin Hayes - EDGE, Notre Dame
Malcolm Koonce - EDGE, Buffalo
Shaun Beyer - TE, Iowa
Trevon Grimes - WR, Florida
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Thanks for posting these, I enjoy them and may head over for a few of my own.
who else was there at the Koonce pick? Can’t see them taking 2 EDGE players?
steelers1080
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
This was my issue as well. In this mock, there wasn't anything there. Haynes can probably play inside and outside with Koonce as a developmental guy. Would be nice if can do this and get Avery Williams there.
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JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Some mocks have Josh Ball available around that pick. Not sure they take 2 OT but he is someone I like.
Also Robert Jones, but he may go much higher.
Garrett Wallow seems to be moving up some draft boards but I like him as well.
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5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Tevin Jenkins couldn't help them win? Newsome couldn't help them win? One of the Edge guys couldn't help them win? Had Darrisaw lasted another pick, and they passed on him for Harris (which I expect they would have), he couldn't help them win? That's flawed logic, IMO. Harris was nowhere near the only "good player that could help them win" that was available.
The bolded had much, much more to do with the blockers than the runners. They certainly needed to infuse the RB room with talent after Conner was allowed to walk.....which they almost certainly could have been able to do with a lesser pick.
I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to not like the pick necessarily. That said, my mind isn't going to be changed either. It was a horrible use of a first rounder and there's scads of data to support feeling that way. And that has zero to do with it being Harris specifically (although him being older certain makes it more brow furrowing. Very good chance the guy won't see a second contract with the team, since he'll be almost 30 when his rookie deal is up. Why waste the 5th year option on guy like that?).
I'd feel the same way had the taken Etienne. First round RBs just aren't worth it, unless you are talking about a "Barry Sanders" level talent.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
This feels EXACTLY like the bolded.
I feel like I need to reiterate...I don't think Najee Harris sucks, or is an "Arite Burns" or "Edmunds" level player. He can wind up producing like mad.....and I still will hate that they burnt a first round pick on an 'elderly' running back. It's just gross to do that with a first. That's my biggest beef with it. Value got flushed in a big way.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Any and all OL over TE. The two positions that should be roundly ignored in the first two rounds are RB and TE. Just clean house if that’s the kind of franchise they’re going to be. May as well have Bill O’Brien running the front office at that point.Better him than Creed Humphrey.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
It was more an indictment of Humphrey than a case for a TE. In the limited time I saw Humphrey play the last two years, DTs were making him there kitty. No thankee.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
He'd own on the T eligible, if nothing else.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The posts touting all the talent left in the 2nd round on Twitter are sad to see, they list ~10-12 names. We don't draft in the top 12 or top 20, most or all will be gone by 55 unless we trade up.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I agree.
Not understanding the heat for the top RB of the draft with an obvious need so-long you guys get help on the O-Line so a move-up today would not surprise me.
If you get legit O-line help not just some JAG taken later to placate O-Line honks but a legit candidate who could challenge to start at some point this year then I'd consider the Steelers draft to be a home run.
Crucial to get a legit O-Lineman capable of starting as a rookie IMHO.
Probably not but I think it's overrated. Bell was the same way. He had 5 carries in his career were he broke a 40+ yard run, same amount as Kamara.
steelers1080
Footballguy
If he reaches the heights that Bell did in year 2 and maintains through year 5 then he will have been a success.
What is there to not understand?Bracie Smathers said:
He’s 23, will be 28 if he gets to his 5th year option. People comparing him to Bell don’t realize Bell had a down year at 25 and was never good again after.
His projected athleticism is most likely not true. Guys who run 4.51’s are not limited to 26 20 yard carries on 638 career carries at friggin Alabama. He’s had multiple years to put a 40 down on the books. Saban is smarter than most and allows his players to workout in the sprint (part of the reason Josh Jacobs vaulted into the first). It helps him keep played into their senior season that don’t have the athleticism for the NFL (*cough* Najee and Devonta Smith *cough*)
His yards created was 4.4. I don’t want to talk too much about paid content but that’s extremely low for the time Barfield has been doing it.
Even if you have a good scouting department you don’t know who can be a top OLineman. You think you have some idea which is fine but when you have just Decastro on the line you throw every dart in your disposal.
1) They are expensive in the long term. See what the Ravens got for a middle of the road Tackle.
2) It should be known by now that this is not a chicken or egg scenario. Oline’s make RB’s with rare, rare exception. Najee is not that exception and we know that from yards created.
3) Whether you guys think he is done or not, Ben is the most important person in the offense. It is misguided to believe a RB would have saved him at all last year. He needs to be kept upright to win. Even if he is done when it is time to bring on a rookie QB guess what will be the most important thing to be intact for them? The oline.
This was poor franchise building by a now backward looking team. It’s the worst pick in years. I hope that it leads to corrections by the front office. Primarily that you should not be drafting any RB that is afraid to do a workout with such high draft capital.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Their was no run on O-Linemen at the end of the first round, none picked. A RB was taken directly after Najee.
The Steelers FO declared their intentions with the pick, they are in a window and aren't thinking about second contracts so the age doesn't matter for that mindset.
Its about the D and Ben right now.
They'd better address O-Line in the second so a move-up is or should be on the table.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The later in the day the more pessimistic I get that there will be any solid OT or C prospects left at 55. My ideal right now is random, but it's trading up for JOK if he falls to the mid-40's, and then taking Little or Mayfield in the 3rd. Highly doubt it happens, but that's what I'm wishing for.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I agree with your take in general and thought oline was the biggest need. That said I am quoting this part of your post because I recall Bill Polian saying RBs make the oline. Which feels backwards to me as well. But I would defer to Polian in this regard. I just play GM on a message board.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Rumor is that the contract for Mason Rudolph was for $5 million next year. Not a crazy amount for a backup QB if they still go with Ben/Haskins/Rookie. *Hopefully true and it's not more than that
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I won’t argue anymore because I know I’m being the annoying guy. I hate the pick but it’s done and over. Wish they would have traded down. There were trade options for RB’s on other teams and if the current OL are graded as 2nd’s it would have made sense to be in the early 2nd. Now they’ve backed themselves into a corner over a RB. It’s frustrating to say the least. It isn’t that RB’s can’t matter or don’t matter or don’t make a difference. It’s just minimal in comparison to other positions. I think the Steelers line for the division fell last night on the Najee news.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
FWIW I agree with taking O-Line but no other OL were taken so if they would have selected one it would have been a reach.
I guess you could fault them for not anticipating Minnesota taking an OL right before them and moving ahead of them but I don't think you can ding them for not moving down unless you are aware of an offer left on the table and then no one really knows who will be available later.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Thanks PHI for taking him
Didn't want that injury headache
Didn't want that injury headache
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Jenkins gone
I'm not sure why the Bengals let him go?
I'm not sure why the Bengals let him go?
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Other than Jenkins going pretty good so far
Grid71
Footballguy
Excellent analysis. Give me two helpings of that crow if I’m wrong. Two commentssteelers1080 said:
1- To have success in the NFL, Harris needs an above average OL to open holes. Oof!
2- A #5 player on the draft board screams this guy is a can’t miss difference maker. How do you defend putting Harris there when he can’t outrun average NFL defense linemen? Whomever set the draft board should be fired.
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