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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (11 Viewers)

Ben and Art Rooney II met today. According to Ben's agent it went well and he'll be back next season under a readjusted contract (whether that means a cut or extension with voided years remains to be seen). This is definitely not a guarantee that he'll be back, especially since it was Ben's side that released it, but it does make it seem more likely. 

We'll see what happens, I just hope that this doesn't mean that we pass on a QB just because Ben is back. This isn't the same situation as GB and Aaron Rodgers. Ben is not still in his prime and MVP caliber (at least he hasn't looked that way in years). 
I don't think we will pass on a QB if one drops but I do think it is unlikely we'll move up to get one if Ben is returning.  I am fine with that -- I think we need to address the offensive line, RB, defensive line and/or OLB.   

If you get lucky and a top QB drops fine but otherwise let's hold onto the picks we have and sure up some holes.   We can address QB in 2022.

 
At this point, with the Ben talk, I'm just worried they try to shoehorn a specific position at 24, instead of taking BPA. I just keep having Edmunds and Artie Burns flashbacks. They weren't really the BPA, but they fit a position of need. And taking Edmunds 2 rounds prior to when we needed to still hurts. Based on comparing multiple big boards it looks like we should be able to get one of the top 20 players in the draft (not that everyone agrees on a top 20), because some teams will reach for positions of need. We should be able to get one of:

  • QBs - Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance (def all gone by 24)
  • TE - Pitts
  • OT - Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker
  • CB - Surtain II, Farley, Horn
  • WR - Smith, Chase, Waddle
  • IDL - Barmore
  • LB - Parsons, Owusu-Koramoah, Zaven Collins
  • EDGE - Paye, Rousseau
A lot of big boards have 1 or 2 RBs in the top 24, but with the long term needs of this team, it seems unwise to take a RB that early, and a bit short sighted. 

Art Rooney II released his message, post-Ben meeting:

“Ben Roethlisberger and I met yesterday morning and we had a productive meeting,” Rooney said. “We were able to discuss a lot of things that relate to where we are and where we want to go. Ben assured me that he is committed to coming back to help us win, and I told Ben that we would like to have him back to help us win a championship. We both understand the next step is to work out Ben’s contract situation.”
This doesn't seem to be as confident/glowing as Ben's Agent's take. I wonder if the Steelers are asking for a pay cut in addition to the voidable extension? That way his hit this year could be reduced even further.

For all the talk, I still assume Ben doesn't want to actually reduce his pay any, just move the money around. 

 
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At this point, with the Ben talk, I'm just worried they try to shoehorn a specific position at 24, instead of taking BPA. I just keep having Edmunds and Artie Burns flashbacks. They weren't really the BPA, but they fit a position of need. And taking Edmunds 2 rounds prior to when we needed to still hurts. Based on comparing multiple big boards it looks like we should be able to get one of the top 20 players in the draft (not that everyone agrees on a top 20), because some teams will reach for positions of need. We should be able to get one of:

  • QBs - Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance (def all gone by 24)
  • TE - Pitts
  • OT - Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker
  • CB - Surtain II, Farley, Horn
  • WR - Smith, Chase, Waddle
  • IDL - Barmore
  • LB - Parsons, Owusu-Koramoah, Zaven Collins
  • EDGE - Paye, Rousseau
A lot of big boards have 1 or 2 RBs in the top 24, but with the long term needs of this team, it seems unwise to take a RB that early, and a bit short sighted. 

Art Rooney II released his message, post-Ben meeting:

This doesn't seem to be as confident/glowing as Ben's Agent's take. I wonder if the Steelers are asking for a pay cut in addition to the voidable extension? That way his hit this year could be reduced even further.

For all the talk, I still assume Ben doesn't want to actually reduce his pay any, just move the money around. 
I think he will take a pay cut if that allows them to sign JuJu.  

 
For all the talk, I still assume Ben doesn't want to actually reduce his pay any, just move the money around. 
I think so as well and the terminology in his agents statement yesterday made me feel even more so. That terminology was "we are happy to creatively adjust his contract". Nothing about money does matter, willing to pay for less,etc, etc. Just adjust followed by a few lines hyping up Ben.

 
They need to sign Hilton and Sutton before anyone else. Their secondary will be a joke if they don't. Both can play the important slot role, and Sutton showed his verstility by lining up outside and inside. After that, they need depth signings like Feiler, Spillane, and Alualu. I'm not sure how they can sign big ticket guys like Dupree and JuJu, while letting their secondary get worse, and by letting all their depth walk out the door. Ben, or no Ben, there just isn't enough money to go around.

Ben's not going to look any better than what we've all seen the last few years, so I'm not sure what Rooney is thinking. Ben's getting older, not any younger. 

 
Ben's not going to look any better than what we've all seen the last few years, so I'm not sure what Rooney is thinking. Ben's getting older, not any younger. 
I'm actually glad he's returning, guess I'm in the minority on that one. While true he's not getting any younger he can be helped out tremendously with OL and running game improvements. I just did not want to be staring at another Mason Rudolph season and while I do see obvious decline in Ben's game I still would not have labeled him as a central problem in the teams collapse.

If the team would commit to a total rebuild I might think otherwise on wanting Ben back. I'd have been all in favor of a step back season, clean up the cap, accumulate some draft capital, etc,. But the franchise does not seem to ever want to take this approach so if not I'm good with his return even if he's declined and the teams situation as a whole looks a bit dire. If the team is committed to trying to compete, I still think Ben gives us a far better chance then Rudolph.

 
I get that they may believe that Ben is their best chance over Rudolph and Haskins. Problem is, we have all seen the regression since 2018, and unless he's going the PED route, how will he not further regress? His deep ball game is non-existent, so defenses will just play him like they did the last quarter of the season. Is he coming back to hand the ball off? Well, the other two guys can do that as well, and both can throw the ball deep if Matt instills a play action-type offense. So, if bringing back a non-mobile, 39 year old QB with limited arm strength is the best option, then the team needs a future QB plan ASAP.

****The more I think about it, the more I believe that after the Troy P debacle, that Rooney doesn't want a repeat, and will just let his HOF QB return if he wants for one last tour****

 
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I get that they may believe that Ben is their best chance over Rudolph and Haskins. Problem is, we have all seen the regression since 2018, and unless he's going the PED route, how will he not further regress? His deep ball game is non-existent, so defenses will just play him like they did the last quarter of the season. Is he coming back to hand the ball off? Well, the other two guys can do that as well, and both can throw the ball deep if Matt instills a play action-type offense. So, if bringing back a non-mobile, 39 year old QB with limited arm strength is the best option, then the team needs a future QB plan ASAP.

****The more I think about it, the more I believe that after the Troy P debacle, that Rooney doesn't want a repeat, and will just let his HOF QB return if he wants for one last tour****
I am not prepared to write-off his deep ball based on one-year coming off of surgery in the middle of a pandemic season.

 
I get that they may believe that Ben is their best chance over Rudolph and Haskins. Problem is, we have all seen the regression since 2018, and unless he's going the PED route, how will he not further regress? His deep ball game is non-existent, so defenses will just play him like they did the last quarter of the season. Is he coming back to hand the ball off? Well, the other two guys can do that as well, and both can throw the ball deep if Matt instills a play action-type offense. So, if bringing back a non-mobile, 39 year old QB with limited arm strength is the best option, then the team needs a future QB plan ASAP.
He only played one full game since 2018 so I'm not going to say he's been in a continuous decline so much as he declined in 2020 over 2018 . But in 2018 he had AB, better blocking and running.

I think he can throw still throw the deep ball, saw several throws by him were velocity and distance did not look like an issue. It's my belief the lack of deep passing attack was more a by product of no time to throw, not a suddenly dead arm. Part of that is on Ben and his lack of mobility for sure, that to me personally is the biggest part of the decline in his game. Not the arm but the lack of movement ability. 

I don't subscribe to a site were I can obtain deep ball passing stats but I recall an article I read with a few weeks left in the season and I just went to find it.  Link at bottom of this paragraph and has some good info on his deep ball accuracy except the article was wrote with 3 weeks left in the season. Don't feel need to read the article but go to bottom and look at graph. He attempted less deep balls last season, but was not really worse at it then 2018. Now you can see from this graph he's not been as good on throwing the deep pass since 2017, he's not what he used to be in that area and has not been in some time,  but 2018 was one of his best seasons and he did not really throw the deep ball better that year then last year and he had AB . https://steelersdepot.com/2020/12/stats-study-roethlisbergers-2020-deep-pass-stats-on-par-with-2018-season/

Tom Brady led the NFL last year in deep ball attempts. There were those who thought his game had declined but he looked considerably better in Tampa with better weapons. Supporting cast matters and while Ben had solid weapons he was not helped out in other areas. So when you ask how we can expect the regression to stop that's what I would say. Help him with better blocking and running.

I 100% agree we need a QB for the future but when drafting were we are I don't see this as the time for it. Like I said earlier I'd have been all for a total rebuild, let Ben go, stink, get a high pick and then look at QB of the future. This franchise likes to try and compete every year. It worries me about when and how they get the next franchise QB. I started pulling for Steelers in 1980, vividly recall Bradshaw's last game and then spent close to 25 years waiting for the next franchise QB. I'm not entirely sure I got 25 years left in me to wait for the next one if it takes that long again.

 
His arm was dead last year, as all he could throw was jump balls to Claypool. Sure, he was coming off arm surgery, but he's 39 now. Your body doesn't heal like it used to. There is no fountain of youth.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/02/contextualizing-ben-roethlisbergers-2020-deep-throws-how-good-was-he/

Kinsley’s adjusted accuracy percentage has Roethlisberger at 39.7%, 26th in the league. The QBs below him are guys like Carson Wentz, Sam Darnold, and Jared Goff. Not great
That deep game has been regressing, and all the stats show it since 2018 before arm surgery,

https://brickwallblitz.com/2019/02/22/the-2018-19-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/

Ben Roethlisberger’s days as a top downfield passer appear to be over, as he was third last in downfield accuracy in 2018 at 33.87%. He was also dead last on throws into tight windows (15.38%) and second to last in clean pockets (34.62%, despite throwing eight touchdowns in such pockets).
Like I said, the numbers are there, and what you watch every week is also there, and both tell the same story.

 
crushedspirit said:
They need to sign Hilton and Sutton before anyone else. Their secondary will be a joke if they don't. Both can play the important slot role, and Sutton showed his verstility by lining up outside and inside. After that, they need depth signings like Feiler, Spillane, and Alualu. I'm not sure how they can sign big ticket guys like Dupree and JuJu, while letting their secondary get worse, and by letting all their depth walk out the door. Ben, or no Ben, there just isn't enough money to go around.
I think that Alualu should be the priority. I don't think other teams will be coming in hard to sign him, and that we could get him on a decent deal for 2-3 years. He was an all-star at run stuffing and getting pressure up the middle before his injury. When he went out, our run defense completely fell apart, and after he came back he was good, but clearly wasn't 100%.

I think that Hilton or Sutton will probably get snatched up by another team, so the team should focus on Sutton who is more versatile, even though watching Hilton blitz is very enjoyable (he does make coverage mistakes more often). 

Signing Feiler, Spillane, and Banner will allow the OL to be a manageable issue, and will provide solid depth at ILB (esp if they let Vince go and draft a rookie ILB). 

That said, all this costs money and we're still over the cap. Hopefully we extend 1 of Nelson/Haden and cut the other, and extend or cut DeCastro, and Extend Watt. We have to make moves in order to get that cap number down just to fill out a complete roster, let alone signing free agents. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I am not prepared to write-off his deep ball based on one-year coming off of surgery in the middle of a pandemic season.
It seemed to get worse as the season went along with him often overthrowing players by 2-3 yards, which is the "safe" throw, so that the defenders don't have a shot at it. But at least he's not underthrowing everything like Brees, it's not a case of his arm can't do it, it's a case of his accuracy being off or a case of him not wanting to take a risk and let a WR go for it. 

My hope is that with a more complete offseason, and another year out from the surgery, he can work with the WRs a lot this offseason to dial in that deep ball and work on their hands. Also, I think that at least 50%, if not more, of the blame for the terrible offense lies at Fichtner's feet. Perhaps with a new OC Ben will be put in a better position to succeed with more ingenuity; Or, it was more Ben's fault than we realized and he's calling out of plays he doesn't like and forcing the situation into a repetitive nightmare (Run, Pass for 2, Pass for 2, Punt). It looked like when Ben took over play calling and worked from the no-huddle, the offense actually started to function properly, but we'll see how the offense does in 2021. 

If Ben is back for 2021, I hope they don't leverage the future to make a push, because the odds of success are still slim. Build the team for the long term instead of being short sighted. (aka take BPA, not forcing picks)

 
Mock's are getting ridiculous just to get clicks. An official mock from NFL.com has the Steelers taking Justin Fields, at Pick 24. If he falls out of the top 5 I'll be surprised, and if he falls out of the top 12 I'll be shocked. 

That said, if he falls to 18 or lower we should definitely make a move for him, imo. It's been proven that Justins can succeed in the NFL. 

 
Gotta think that the Steelers are going to run A LOT of pistol formation this year.  With that in mind -- what RB would you want lined up there behind Ben?  Etienne in the first?

 
Gotta think that the Steelers are going to run A LOT of pistol formation this year.  With that in mind -- what RB would you want lined up there behind Ben?  Etienne in the first?
With all our needs over the next 2 seasons taking a RB in the 1st seems crazy to me. The only exception being the Front Office thinks that a star RB will bring home the Super Bowl in 2021, even though the Steelers have the toughest schedule in the NFL. The 2nd or 3rd (or preferably later) seems a lot more palatable. 

 
With all our needs over the next 2 seasons taking a RB in the 1st seems crazy to me. The only exception being the Front Office thinks that a star RB will bring home the Super Bowl in 2021, even though the Steelers have the toughest schedule in the NFL. The 2nd or 3rd (or preferably later) seems a lot more palatable. 
It depends on how they view the draft.  We don't have a RB on the roster right now that matters.  We absolutely need someone fast enough and who can block to be effective out of the pistol.  We don't get that guy, then this season is a waste of time and a waste of what will again be a top 10 defense.  Even if we lose JuJu, there are plenty of weapons on offense, and we will scheme out of Oline protection issues.  But we need a RB to bring it all together or they will tee-off on Ben's short passes all season.  I hear you and agree that RB has been de-valued, but that really is THE PIECE that we need to matter this season.

 
Odds that the Steelers chase Golden Tate if Juju leaves?

Any chance of Kyle Rudolph to take Vance's spot -- or is he still going to demand a real salary?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Odds that the Steelers chase Golden Tate if Juju leaves?

Any chance of Kyle Rudolph to take Vance's spot -- or is he still going to demand a real salary?
I dunno but they won't be a Steeler unless they are willing to sign for near league minimum

 
Ben officially restructures deal and is back for 2021.  Terms not disclosed yet. 
Oof. Probably going to spread money out which is dumb. Unless they win super bowl this year but that is highly doubtful with all of the holes and limited cap space on that roster.

 
Juju responds on social media post announcing Big Ben's deal with "let's go" and the two hands up in celebration emoji and then "now let's talk"

 
Juju responds on social media post announcing Big Ben's deal with "let's go" and the two hands up in celebration emoji and then "now let's talk"
I think juju is a luxury they can’t afford. Receiver isn’t a need for them like many other positions and they have no money. Ju Ju is gone.

 
I think Ben and Juju conspired together to play this year.  Run it back with a new running back.
There's also news leaking of the Steelers trying to resign Dupree. Idk where all the cap money will come from, but if they can resign Dupree, Juju, Alualu, and one of Sutton/Hilton, sign Banner and/or Feiler, and draft a RB semi-early. They could have a team as good as last years. Which, when healthy, was very very good. And, their Offensive Coordinator can't really be worse than Fichtner was. 

That said, they don't have the money for that so I'd expect Juju and Dupree to be gone, most likely. The reason I'm so sure? I have both Dupree and Juju jerseys... 

 
I think Ben and Juju conspired together to play this year.  Run it back with a new running back.
If I see Ben's contract adjustment was for the league minimum I'll start to believe this. Saying that I feel fairly confident we'll find out he did not take a pay cut, just moved money around.

 
Ben officially restructures deal and is back for 2021.  Terms not disclosed yet. 
From what I heard he reduced his salary from $19 million to $14 million ($5 million straight cash payout) and agreed to spread salary from 2021 to 2022.  It will clear about $15 million in cap space for this year.

I am not 100% certain on this part but I think his cap hit for 2022 will be about $25 million

 
From what I heard he reduced his salary from $19 million to $14 million ($5 million straight cash payout) and agreed to spread salary from 2021 to 2022.  It will clear about $15 million in cap space for this year.

I am not 100% certain on this part but I think his cap hit for 2022 will be about $25 million
Just saw that and made my post above your post one of the quickest to be proven wrong predictions you can see.

Still think JuJu is gone but I was ok with Ben returning before but this is a really good restructure which and I'm happy to hear about the terms. People can knock Ben but IMO he's easily worth $14M in a year.

 
From what I heard he reduced his salary from $19 million to $14 million ($5 million straight cash payout) and agreed to spread salary from 2021 to 2022.  It will clear about $15 million in cap space for this year.

I am not 100% certain on this part but I think his cap hit for 2022 will be about $25 million
Took a legit pay-cut.  HERE.  WE .  GO!

 
From Ian Rapoport - "The breakdown: 
— $12.925M signing bonus.
— $1.075M base salary
— 4 voidable years to spread out the cap hit (technically a deal through 2025), voiding after the season.

So, 1 year, $14M with a greatly reduced cap hit."

From Tom Pelissero
"
#Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger's new contract for 2021 utilizes a signing bonus, minimum base salary and voidable years to free up about $15 million of cap space, per source. Big Ben takes a $5M paycut, from $19M to $14M, giving the team much-needed breathing room."

 
Ian Rapoport

@RapSheet

The breakdown: — $12.925M signing bonus. — $1.075M base salary — 4 voidable years to spread out the cap hit (technically a deal through 2025), voiding after the season. So, 1 year, $14M with a greatly reduced cap hit.

 
From Ian Rapoport - "The breakdown: 
— $12.925M signing bonus.
— $1.075M base salary
— 4 voidable years to spread out the cap hit (technically a deal through 2025), voiding after the season.

So, 1 year, $14M with a greatly reduced cap hit."

From Tom Pelissero
"
#Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger's new contract for 2021 utilizes a signing bonus, minimum base salary and voidable years to free up about $15 million of cap space, per source. Big Ben takes a $5M paycut, from $19M to $14M, giving the team much-needed breathing room."
Ben wants to win.  This year.  Expect an immediate need based draft. Harris or Etienne in the first if there.

 
Ian Rapoport

@RapSheet

The breakdown: — $12.925M signing bonus. — $1.075M base salary — 4 voidable years to spread out the cap hit (technically a deal through 2025), voiding after the season. So, 1 year, $14M with a greatly reduced cap hit.
So something like ~$3 mil per year in dead cap through 2025. That's not bad at all. I was mainly worried about all of the $$ going into 2022, and then not being able to make moves next offseason, without Ben on the team. This is better than I expected, I didn't honestly think Ben would take a cut to stay. I thought by "cut" he just meant restructure. 

This could make it realistically affordable to keep Juju or Dupree if they make other cap moves (Extend DeCastro, sign Watt, Extend Haden or Nelson [or cut], extend Ebron). 

 
Ben wants to win.  This year.  Expect an immediate need based draft. Harris or Etienne in the first if there.
I like what Ben did here. RB in the 1st is a real possibility. With Highsmith waiting in the wings I can't see Dupree being resigned and JuJu would have to play for cheap. Can't see that either. I think Alualu is about to get paid.

 
So something like ~$3 mil per year in dead cap through 2025. That's not bad at all. I was mainly worried about all of the $$ going into 2022, and then not being able to make moves next offseason, without Ben on the team. This is better than I expected, I didn't honestly think Ben would take a cut to stay. I thought by "cut" he just meant restructure. 

This could make it realistically affordable to keep Juju or Dupree if they make other cap moves (Extend DeCastro, sign Watt, Extend Haden or Nelson [or cut], extend Ebron). 
It's happening.  I don't think Ben agrees to this without these things (something similar) in the works.

 
It's happening.  I don't think Ben agrees to this without these things (something similar) in the works.
Maybe. If Allen Robinson and Golladay get franchise tagged, I think the Steelers let Juju walk because he'll get a big contract, netting the Steelers a 3rd round compensatory pick. They didn't draft Claypool and Diontae for no reason. I think it's more likely they want to resign Dupree than resign Juju. Which is unfortunate, because I think that Juju is a great player to build around. He's still so young.

 
Not sure how cutting 3 million off the salary isn't going to make the purge of talent due to salary cap/free agency any softer.  Maybe we saved 1 big time player?

 
Not sure how cutting 3 million off the salary isn't going to make the purge of talent due to salary cap/free agency any softer.  Maybe we saved 1 big time player?
Well the Steelers were $15MM over the projected cap and just saved that much in cap space based on this deal.

 
Well the Steelers were $15MM over the projected cap and just saved that much in cap space based on this deal.
There will be more reworking of contracts and potential cap casualties to clear space for whatever they want to do.    They weren't going to make a big splash in free agency anyway, it will all about keeping the defense together as much as possible and hopefully lock up TJ and Minkah to long term deals

 
Apparenlty after this contract, the Steelers are $3.3MM under the $180MM cap-floor, inclusive of all roll-over money.
According to Spotrac, they come in at $173.6MM plus $9.5MM of dead cap money. Let's presume the 2021 cap will be $185MM plus the $4.9MM rollover from 2020. That gives them $8MM in cap space.

 
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There's still no $$$ to sign JuJu or Dupree, so I'm not sure what people see. They stil need room for the ERFA's Spillane and Allen. Still need to put away about 3 mil for the estimated 9 draft picks after offset. Every year they put away about 6 mil for the replacements for injuries. Even if they raise the cap to 185, there's no money. Only way to free up anything is restructure someone like Tuitt, and maybe cut someone like Haydon. Team also needs to re-sign either Suttton or Hilton, and maybe Alualu. 

 
There's still no $$$ to sign JuJu or Dupree, so I'm not sure what people see. They stil need room for the ERFA's Spillane and Allen. Still need to put away about 3 mil for the estimated 9 draft picks after offset. Every year they put away about 6 mil for the replacements for injuries. Even if they raise the cap to 185, there's no money. Only way to free up anything is restructure someone like Tuitt, and maybe cut someone like Haydon. Team also needs to re-sign either Suttton or Hilton, and maybe Alualu. 
They definitely are not done making a few moves to clear up additional cap space

 
Ben wants to win.  This year.  Expect an immediate need based draft. Harris or Etienne in the first if there.
Didn't I just hear that they lost 3/5ths of the line from last season? If that is true, how does a RB help? They were like 28th in the league rushing this past year. Seems line help would be way more pressing of a need?

 
Priority one and two would be engaging in discussions to extend Watt and Fitzpatrick. Resigning JuJu and Dupree makes it exponentially harder. 

 
Priority one and two would be engaging in discussions to extend Watt and Fitzpatrick. Resigning JuJu and Dupree makes it exponentially harder. 
Will they extend Fitz now or just exercise his 5th year option and do that next year?

Watt will get extended.  There will be several restructures coming.

They will probably sign a C and then either Feiler or a free agent T.  Sounds like there are a few cheap options out there.  Dotson is starting a G this year.  Banner will be back.  I am not that worried about the line.

They will draft RB, OL, and LB in the first 3 rounds -- order depending on who is available.  But I think Harris is a perfect Steeler and fits what they want to do.

 

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