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The Commish

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25 minutes ago, PennStater77 said:

It has to do with when you guys continue to state Vaccine %, aren't you for My Body, My Choice? 

All i did was mention how bad our county % was.  Has nothing to do with my beliefs around choice, but since you asked, everyones had a chance to get vaxed.    If people want to leave it to Darwin, thats on them. 

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21 hours ago, The Commish said:

All i did was mention how bad our county % was.  Has nothing to do with my beliefs around choice, but since you asked, everyones had a chance to get vaxed.    If people want to leave it to Darwin, thats on them. 

Exactly. I mean if 173M people have proved a pretty nice trial that the vax is gonna work. And the rest don't want it....uh, I can only scratch my head why you wouldn't want it??

In Citrus County where I live the vax rate according to the fed CDC (the state doesn't want you to know) is hovering at 45%.

There are not many kids living here, the vast majority according to our last census is we are one of the top FL counties for being the whitest, oldest and most assuredly according to these numbers one of the dumbest.

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On 7/11/2021 at 2:04 PM, Joe Mammy said:

Troll much? If you had a clue about FL you'd know that Nikki is the babe to beat in the next Guber. 

That was my initial assumption as well, but I thought I heard that in an early poll Crist was beating her by 30 points. (ETA: According to Wikipedia, the early average is about Crist +10). Now, maybe that's just a reflection of name recognition, but if the past few years has taught us anything, it's maybe don't be so quick to assume the well-known early front-runner will automatically fade (Trump '16, Biden '20)

All that said, if we Dems nominate Crist, we will lose and we will deserve to.

Edited by ignatiusjreilly
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DeSantis Didn’t Win the Pandemic, After All

Let's stipulate at the outset that any discussion of "winning" the pandemic is and has always been gross and offensive. I also always found it strange that the media was praising DeSantis at the exact same time they were beating up on Cuomo for taking a premature victory lap. You'd think that might have led to at least a degree of circumspection.

For the record, I've always thought all the "#DeathSantis" stuff was dumb. I've been saying since the beginning of the pandemic that the virus doesn't care about your morality plays. Best thing I've read on Florida's response was this Atlantic piece from March that basically said none of the narratives were supported by data. I wish we could just have a balanced conversation about DeSantis' record, but I recognize at this point that's unlikely.

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9 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

DeSantis Didn’t Win the Pandemic, After All

Let's stipulate at the outset that any discussion of "winning" the pandemic is and has always been gross and offensive. I also always found it strange that the media was praising DeSantis at the exact same time they were beating up on Cuomo for taking a premature victory lap. You'd think that might have led to at least a degree of circumspection.

For the record, I've always thought all the "#DeathSantis" stuff was dumb. I've been saying since the beginning of the pandemic that the virus doesn't care about your morality plays. Best thing I've read on Florida's response was this Atlantic piece from March that basically said none of the narratives were supported by data. I wish we could just have a balanced conversation about DeSantis' record, but I recognize at this point that's unlikely.

Hadn't heard this.  A benefit of not being on social media in this country no doubt.  In this thread, I feel like I've been as even handed as I could be in terms of handling the pandemic.  At the very beginning, he was pushing testing hard.  I thought that was great.  Problem was, once the data started to deviate from the agenda, he chose the agenda making those millions spent on testing pointless.  There was no state plan/commitment to change course in areas where things started spreading more aggressively.  I thought it comical that the successes lauded over him specifically in the California comparisons that everyone was insisting on making given the fact that he basically punted decision making to local municipalities.  He stood in front of the camera saying "Florida is open.  There are no state restrictions" while a majority of local municipalities (at least around me) were doing the right thing and requiring masks and social distancing.  

I DO think that approach is the right thing to do FWIW.  Leave it to local municipalities to decide and then support them in their decision however he can.  The problem has become that as those groups continued to do the right thing beyond a time he thought acceptable, he started stepping in by not allowing enforcement of their rules via fines, rejection at the stores for noncompliance etc.  He decided that businesses were NOT allowed to make choices for themselves on what was right for their business and began overruling them.  That's the part I have a problem with.  Now we have 1 in 5 of all new cases in the country and a Governor who is now handcuffing local municipalities from imposing meaningful restrictions should they choose to do so.  

I said at the very beginning of this whole thing that Florida WOULD become a hotspot early and often and if there were ever going to be flare ups, they WOULD happen here.  It's one of the easier predictions I've ever made just understanding the people around me and the state legislature even a little bit, it was obvious that this sort of thing was going to happen.  And every time it does, it sets us back.  We were told that people weren't going to work because they were getting paid MORE to stay home.  Well, that changed over a month ago and unemployment has ticked UP (not gone down) since those benefits were removed.  People see what's going on around them.  They have no confidence and are still nervous.  Nervousness is not quelled by being one of 4 states being the source of 40% of all new cases of COVID.  It makes it even worse when you are a state that has 20% of those new cases ALONE.  You can't hide that kind of stuff no matter how hard you try. 

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3 hours ago, The Commish said:

Hadn't heard this.  A benefit of not being on social media in this country no doubt.  In this thread, I feel like I've been as even handed as I could be in terms of handling the pandemic.  At the very beginning, he was pushing testing hard.  I thought that was great.  Problem was, once the data started to deviate from the agenda, he chose the agenda making those millions spent on testing pointless.  There was no state plan/commitment to change course in areas where things started spreading more aggressively.  I thought it comical that the successes lauded over him specifically in the California comparisons that everyone was insisting on making given the fact that he basically punted decision making to local municipalities.  He stood in front of the camera saying "Florida is open.  There are no state restrictions" while a majority of local municipalities (at least around me) were doing the right thing and requiring masks and social distancing.  

I DO think that approach is the right thing to do FWIW.  Leave it to local municipalities to decide and then support them in their decision however he can.  The problem has become that as those groups continued to do the right thing beyond a time he thought acceptable, he started stepping in by not allowing enforcement of their rules via fines, rejection at the stores for noncompliance etc.  He decided that businesses were NOT allowed to make choices for themselves on what was right for their business and began overruling them.  That's the part I have a problem with.  Now we have 1 in 5 of all new cases in the country and a Governor who is now handcuffing local municipalities from imposing meaningful restrictions should they choose to do so.  

I said at the very beginning of this whole thing that Florida WOULD become a hotspot early and often and if there were ever going to be flare ups, they WOULD happen here.  It's one of the easier predictions I've ever made just understanding the people around me and the state legislature even a little bit, it was obvious that this sort of thing was going to happen.  And every time it does, it sets us back.  We were told that people weren't going to work because they were getting paid MORE to stay home.  Well, that changed over a month ago and unemployment has ticked UP (not gone down) since those benefits were removed.  People see what's going on around them.  They have no confidence and are still nervous.  Nervousness is not quelled by being one of 4 states being the source of 40% of all new cases of COVID.  It makes it even worse when you are a state that has 20% of those new cases ALONE.  You can't hide that kind of stuff no matter how hard you try. 

I agree that DeSantis did a good job early on letting local governments determine their own policies, which probably did a lot to help keep the numbers down (or maybe it didn't; I have no idea what to believe anymore regarding the effect of government policies on caseloads).

It's funny, because a lot of people compare him to Trump, but I actually think they took very different routes to get to the same destination: Trump was pure id. He wanted to downplay the virus because he thought (correctly) that it hurt him politically, and he would listen to any advice that encouraged him to do so. DeSantis, who I've said is a very smart guy, took a different approach. He brought in a bunch of heterodox academics from Harvard and Stanford who had come up with a whole theory about why the virus wasn't as big a deal as everyone was saying, and how the best strategy was to "protect the vulnerable" and pursue herd immunity for everyone else (without admitting that was what they were doing). And that's pretty much the playbook he's followed ever since.

Now, just because he's an ideologue doesn't mean he's always wrong, and in a few key areas such as reopening schools and prioritizing the vaccine for seniors, this framework led to some very smart decisions. The problem is that ideology doesn't really allow for flexibility. That's what we're seeing right now, when the vaccination focus should have switched from the super-vulnerable (seniors) to super-spreaders (young people) and DeSantis can't even so much utter a word of encouragement about vaccines.

 

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12 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I agree that DeSantis did a good job early on letting local governments determine their own policies, which probably did a lot to help keep the numbers down (or maybe it didn't; I have no idea what to believe anymore regarding the effect of government policies on caseloads).

It's funny, because a lot of people compare him to Trump, but I actually think they took very different routes to get to the same destination: Trump was pure id. He wanted to downplay the virus because he thought (correctly) that it hurt him politically, and he would listen to any advice that encouraged him to do so. DeSantis, who I've said is a very smart guy, took a different approach. He brought in a bunch of heterodox academics from Harvard and Stanford who had come up with a whole theory about why the virus wasn't as big a deal as everyone was saying, and how the best strategy was to "protect the vulnerable" and pursue herd immunity for everyone else (without admitting that was what they were doing). And that's pretty much the playbook he's followed ever since.

Now, just because he's an ideologue doesn't mean he's always wrong, and in a few key areas such as reopening schools and prioritizing the vaccine for seniors, this framework led to some very smart decisions. The problem is that ideology doesn't really allow for flexibility. That's what we're seeing right now, when the vaccination focus should have switched from the super-vulnerable (seniors) to super-spreaders (young people) and DeSantis can't even so much utter a word of encouragement about vaccines.

 

He's definitely painted himself in a corner IF we're talking about the way politics has run prior to 2016.  I think he sorta sees this and sorta doesn't.  This might be the explanation for all the "talking point legislation" (for lack of a better term).  It makes for a great headline, but once you see what's in it and the lack of penalties or lack of teeth in the penalties, you realize that there isn't much to it substance wise.  Two good examples come to mind.  The first is the restrictions for cruise lines to require vaccines.  The headline was great, the application is toothless.  The punishment is essentially to withhold local funds that the cruise lines wouldn't be eligible to get in the first place.  The second one is the reality that multiple municipalities flat out ignored his prohibition of penalties for implementing fines and tickets for not following rules.  He's done nothing to them.  The law was created for the headline and hasn't been enforced in any meaningful way.  Orange County mayor flat out said in his press conference that he disagreed and was proceeding with the course they were on and that DeSantis could sue them if he wanted.  

I don't know what's portrayed in our national media about this, but my guess is, none of this comes up....ever.  Reason #1928309813 why our media is the last place you should go for accurate information these days.

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17 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

DeSantis Didn’t Win the Pandemic, After All

Let's stipulate at the outset that any discussion of "winning" the pandemic is and has always been gross and offensive. I also always found it strange that the media was praising DeSantis at the exact same time they were beating up on Cuomo for taking a premature victory lap. You'd think that might have led to at least a degree of circumspection.

For the record, I've always thought all the "#DeathSantis" stuff was dumb. I've been saying since the beginning of the pandemic that the virus doesn't care about your morality plays. Best thing I've read on Florida's response was this Atlantic piece from March that basically said none of the narratives were supported by data. I wish we could just have a balanced conversation about DeSantis' record, but I recognize at this point that's unlikely.

I suspect the winners and losers will continue to change for years to come in regards to the pandemic.  In the meantime, it will cost some political careers while giving more powers to others.  

Edited by FairWarning
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Speaking of Goober and the FL cruise industry. This past Saturday he lost his preliminary injunction to prohibit the cruise industry from mandating fully vaccinated passengers.

So he ducks in from TX, "well, we'll just appeal the 11th court of appeals. And if that doesn't work we'll take it to the Supreme Court."

Meanwhile he's dealing with another lawsuit from NCL. That is basically the same thing. A private business not even based in the US wants to insure vaccinated passengers only board their private business.

Goober moRoness just wants to make the non-vax good fight for his soon to be gasping for air Orange base.

In more of Goober's grand insightfulness he is now making state educators and students take a political affiliation "survey."  Why would that be valuable info for the state?

Meanwhile, he's busy selling his campaign merchandise online of "Don't Fauci my State" beer koozies and tshirts. 

FL Covid cases spiking as Gov sells his merch!

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On 7/10/2021 at 2:35 PM, The Commish said:

I know there was big talk about fixing this red tide issue in the Governor race and I THOUGHT I had seen some changes come down, but maybe that's wrong?  What's the status on resolving that issue?

 

Red Tide happens naturally. You can't sign a bill and make it stop. 

However farm nutrients getting washed into the waterways helps feed the organisms and can cause outbreaks to be larger and last longer than would naturally occur. 

There was a large leak of nutrient rich waste water from Piny Point into lower Tampa Bay back in March.  In this case, most folks can add 2+2. 

 

Just curios, How long have you been Florida and where did you come from?

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

 

Red Tide happens naturally. You can't sign a bill and make it stop. 

However farm nutrients getting washed into the waterways helps feed the organisms and can cause outbreaks to be larger and last longer than would naturally occur. 

There was a large leak of nutrient rich waste water from Piny Point into lower Tampa Bay back in March.  In this case, most folks can add 2+2. 

 

Just curios, How long have you been Florida and where did you come from?

 

I know it happens naturally. I also know there is more nitrogen pumped into our waterways via poor residential fert applications than any of the heavily regulated farms. I grew up in the carolinas where we had similar problems until new rules were inplemented though it was more of a fresh water issue. Been here for 4 years. My wife grew up in south Florida 

Eta:  Not sure what any of that has to do with the promises made and asking if they had begun addressing them though 

Edited by The Commish
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17 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I know it happens naturally. I also know there is more nitrogen pumped into our waterways via poor residential fert applications than any of the heavily regulated farms. I grew up in the carolinas where we had similar problems until new rules were inplemented though it was more of a fresh water issue. Been here for 4 years. My wife grew up in south Florida 

Eta:  Not sure what any of that has to do with the promises made and asking if they had begun addressing them though 

I really wish I understood both the science and the politics of the issue better. I know there is a difference between red tide and blue-green algae, and I also know there is a split among the Florida GOP between, in essence, the pro-Big Sugar folks and the pro-tourism folks. The first group, including Rick Scott and former Ag Commissioner Adam Putnam, take the standard GOP line that businesses should be free to pollute. The second group, which includes DeSantis and Rep. Brian Mast, refuse Big Sugar's money and talk a lot about "sending the water south", ie, not releasing the runoff from Lake Okechobee onto the Treasure Coast (where Mast's district is). The latter definitely sounds better to me, yet they're not exactly pro-environment, and as you say, nothing really seems to happen in terms of actually solving the problem.

If anyone knows of a good neutralish primer on the issue, please post it here.

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10 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I really wish I understood both the science and the politics of the issue better. I know there is a difference between red tide and blue-green algae, and I also know there is a split among the Florida GOP between, in essence, the pro-Big Sugar folks and the pro-tourism folks. The first group, including Rick Scott and former Ag Commissioner Adam Putnam, take the standard GOP line that businesses should be free to pollute. The second group, which includes DeSantis and Rep. Brian Mast, refuse Big Sugar's money and talk a lot about "sending the water south", ie, not releasing the runoff from Lake Okechobee onto the Treasure Coast (where Mast's district is). The latter definitely sounds better to me, yet they're not exactly pro-environment, and as you say, nothing really seems to happen in terms of actually solving the problem.

If anyone knows of a good neutralish primer on the issue, please post it here.

At least as it relates to the lake, it's been shown time and time again that the waters coming INTO the lake from upstream are over saturated with nitrogen.  Part of that is from the cattle farms north but most of that is from improper/careless residential fertilization and as they continue to build in the middle part of the state (in from the coasts) it gets worse.  My wife's family owned a sugar cane farm right on the lake for the better part of 75 years.  My BIL converted it to sod about 10 years ago, so I'm generally familiar with the area and the issues.  In that soil (muck) you don't need fertilizer.  The most aggressive thing they apply is weed kill and that's ONLY to areas where they can't burn away the weeds for harvest (sugar cane).

It's relatively easy to see the correlation between residential growth and rise in nitrogen levels.  On top of that, the farms in that area take water FROM the lake.  They don't put water into the lake.  Obviously the cow farms upstream are the exception to that, but they use little fertilizer.  Most nitrogen they'd produce comes from cow poop and the like.  The latter is probably the best solution.  The problem with that is there are a LOT of farms south of the lake that would be under water permanently and it would take 10-20 years to see nature regain control if it ever did.  Remember, those wetlands would have to battle the continued introduction of nitrogen from the development north of the lake.  There's no guarantee that the wetlands south could handle it.  If they couldn't then they just took land from a bunch of people and it didn't fix things.  The largest land holder in that area is US Sugar I believe and that's obviously another factor.  Can't piss them off right?  In my view, there needs to be some limitations put on residential land owners similar to what they put on businesses.  That needs to be state wide.  We are uniquely close to the water table throughout the state and the way we are building here, this is going to be a problem until we take care of the water so close to the surface.  

Anyway, I understand it's complex and there are a lot of moving parts.  I also remembered the campaign promise that they'd begin resolving it, but I hadn't heard anything since the election and wondered if it had started.  That's the only reason I asked the question.  Sounds like they haven't done much of anything meaningful

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6 hours ago, The Commish said:

At least as it relates to the lake, it's been shown time and time again that the waters coming INTO the lake from upstream are over saturated with nitrogen.  Part of that is from the cattle farms north but most of that is from improper/careless residential fertilization and as they continue to build in the middle part of the state (in from the coasts) it gets worse.  My wife's family owned a sugar cane farm right on the lake for the better part of 75 years.  My BIL converted it to sod about 10 years ago, so I'm generally familiar with the area and the issues.  In that soil (muck) you don't need fertilizer.  The most aggressive thing they apply is weed kill and that's ONLY to areas where they can't burn away the weeds for harvest (sugar cane).

It's relatively easy to see the correlation between residential growth and rise in nitrogen levels.  On top of that, the farms in that area take water FROM the lake.  They don't put water into the lake.  Obviously the cow farms upstream are the exception to that, but they use little fertilizer.  Most nitrogen they'd produce comes from cow poop and the like.  The latter is probably the best solution.  The problem with that is there are a LOT of farms south of the lake that would be under water permanently and it would take 10-20 years to see nature regain control if it ever did.  Remember, those wetlands would have to battle the continued introduction of nitrogen from the development north of the lake.  There's no guarantee that the wetlands south could handle it.  If they couldn't then they just took land from a bunch of people and it didn't fix things.  The largest land holder in that area is US Sugar I believe and that's obviously another factor.  Can't piss them off right?  In my view, there needs to be some limitations put on residential land owners similar to what they put on businesses.  That needs to be state wide.  We are uniquely close to the water table throughout the state and the way we are building here, this is going to be a problem until we take care of the water so close to the surface.  

Anyway, I understand it's complex and there are a lot of moving parts.  I also remembered the campaign promise that they'd begin resolving it, but I hadn't heard anything since the election and wondered if it had started.  That's the only reason I asked the question.  Sounds like they haven't done much of anything meaningful

Thanks, this is helpful. I swear, I've gotten a tour of the area from the Chief Ecological Officer of the Everglades Foundation, and I've read Michael Grunwald's "The Swamp" and Mario Alejandro Ariza's "Disposable City", both of which I really enjoyed, but in all three cases when they got to the point where they explained the logistics of the Everglades, my eyes immediately glazed over. I just can't seem to grok how all the pieces fit together. If you or anyone else knows a really good explainer, like maybe a YouTube video, please feel free to post it here and I'll prop my eyes open a la "A Clockwork Orange" and force myself to watch it on repeat until I understand.

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8 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Thanks, this is helpful. I swear, I've gotten a tour of the area from the Chief Ecological Officer of the Everglades Foundation, and I've read Michael Grunwald's "The Swamp" and Mario Alejandro Ariza's "Disposable City", both of which I really enjoyed, but in all three cases when they got to the point where they explained the logistics of the Everglades, my eyes immediately glazed over. I just can't seem to grok how all the pieces fit together. If you or anyone else knows a really good explainer, like maybe a YouTube video, please feel free to post it here and I'll prop my eyes open a la "A Clockwork Orange" and force myself to watch it on repeat until I understand.

Not sure what questions you have, but when they created the lake, it created a large void where everglades are today (which are south of the lake) and where they used to be (which is much further north).  There are a ton of acres there that are now being farmed by US Sugar and a  bunch of family farms.  To restore that (which means letting the water out of the lake so it flows south) they have to take that land back from those farming it.

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On 7/18/2021 at 10:18 PM, ignatiusjreilly said:

I also always found it strange that the media was praising DeSantis at the exact same time they were beating up on Cuomo for taking a premature victory lap.

I think you have that backwards.

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33 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

I think you have that backwards.

Likely depends on which media source you choose to consume....there's plenty of both.  It's not either/or and that should tell us all something.

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51 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

I think you have that backwards.

No, my entire point was that it was both. Last summer, cases were spiking in Florida as Cuomo was giving boffo press conferences, so we had #DeathSantis and books on leadership. Then a few months later the numbers were different and Cuomo was a harasser, so we got "How DeSantis won the pandemic". All of it was always BS. First, as I said, it's gross to talk about anyone "winning" a pandemic that has killed 600K. Second, it's ridiculous to treat it as a zero-sum competition; if the virus kills 50K New Yorkers and 30K Floridians, it doesn't mean Florida won, it means 80K Americans died between the two states.

But also, it's willfully obtuse to not learn the main lesson of this pandemic, which is that ultimately everyone has been a loser, even the people who seemed like they were doing well in the moment. SARS-CoV2 isn't Democrat or Republican; it doesn't read Politico or watch Fox News or listen to Pod Save America. All it seeks to do is propagate itself, and it has been remarkably successful at that across a wide range of countries, states and ideologies. I've been as critical of Trump as anyone, and I stand by that, but I'm also not under the illusion that, if Biden or anyone else had been in charge during the pandemic, we would have had the same per-capita death rate as, say, New Zealand.

If you're takeaway from the past year and a half is that anyone has been "right", you're basically just begging for karma to come up behind you and smack you upside the head.

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Posted (edited)

Ron's continued attack on companies doing things they believe are best for them because he doesn't like them.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/1627009914-florida-gov-desantis-threatens-to-sanction-ben-and-jerry-s-unilever-over-boycott

Need some of the "small government" guys on this STAT!

ETA:  Though, I have no idea what he'd actually be able to DO to B&J.  They aren't headquartered in this state.  Feels like another all bark, no bite episode that's becoming way to common.

Edited by The Commish
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It’s just him being woke. If anyone thinks this is anything but political theater and part of a series of primers for greater political aspirations, think again. It’s truly sad imo. 

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On 7/19/2021 at 12:07 PM, ignatiusjreilly said:

The problem is that ideology doesn't really allow for flexibility. That's what we're seeing right now, when the vaccination focus should have switched from the super-vulnerable (seniors) to super-spreaders (young people) and DeSantis can't even so much utter a word of encouragement about vaccines.

To illustrate this point:

https://www.newsweek.com/sellout-ron-desantis-accused-taking-bribe-conservatives-after-promoting-vaccine-1612796

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On 7/23/2021 at 12:45 PM, The Commish said:

Ron's continued attack on companies doing things they believe are best for them because he doesn't like them.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/1627009914-florida-gov-desantis-threatens-to-sanction-ben-and-jerry-s-unilever-over-boycott

Need some of the "small government" guys on this STAT!

ETA:  Though, I have no idea what he'd actually be able to DO to B&J.  They aren't headquartered in this state.  Feels like another all bark, no bite episode that's becoming way to common.

Something similar happened with Airbnb a couple years ago, and I was tangentially involved with it because of my job. Basically, Florida (and 34 other states) maintain a list of companies that support the BDS movement. (B&J would argue that they're only boycotting the territories, not Israel, but for the purposes of these lists I don't think that makes a difference.) 

When you're put on the list it means the state can't do business with you. In the case of Airbnb, that would mean, for example, that state employees who were traveling for work couldn't book accommodations through their platform. With B&J itself, I can't imagine it having much of an impact, but this article notes that he also wants to include Unilever, “a publicly traded company in which Florida holds multiple investments”. 

There is definitely some political posturing going on here, but it's not purely symbolic. The main thing he can accomplish is making things uncomfortable for Unilever. Big multinationals prefer to avoid getting drawn into political disputes. In the case of Airbnb, the pressure made them back down; they went back to posting listings in the West Bank and got themselves removed from the list.

WIth B&J/Unilever, who knows? I will say that Airbnb kind of stumbled into their initial policy change, whereas B&J seems to have made a conscious decision. But I have no idea how autonomous they are within the Unilever corporate structure. That has always been one of the weirdest fits. I still remember the time we toured the factory in Burlington; they show an intro video that talks all about their whole quirky origin story and then, tacked on at the end, something like, "And in 2000, Ben & Jerry's was acquired by Unilever, which allowed them to unlock synergies and achieve economies of scale corporatespeak corporatespeak etc." It was like a "Simpsons" joke come to life.

Edited by ignatiusjreilly
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DeSantis says migrants heading straight from Texas to Florida

Quote

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis stepped up his criticism of President Biden’s immigration policy on Monday, warning that law enforcement personnel informed him that many migrants they encountered at the border were bound for his home state.

DeSantis targeted Biden shortly after the governor returned from a trip to the southern border in support of his move to send Florida law enforcement resources to Texas to assist with the local response to the immigration crisis. DeSantis said he was "surprised" by his discussions with state officers who were sent to the border.

"They’ve made over 2,000 apprehensions, over 100 felony arrests, and they say that almost 70% of everybody that they have interdicted said their ultimate destination was the state of Florida," DeSantis said at a press conference. "If you think that having a wide-open border, 1,000 miles, however far it was away doesn’t affect here, you’re wrong."

The statistics DeSantis cited could not be independently verified.

The presumption that migrants = criminals is all the more offensive for being unstated

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Of course it has an effect.  They will fill the jobs people are desperately trying to get filled.  It's been almost two months since they ended the extra unemployment benefits and we're STILL in bad shape.  That was the alleged problem.  It's almost, ALMOST as if people see the crazy #### going on here the the virus and are choosing to not participate in the crazy.

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7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Of course it has an effect.  They will fill the jobs people are desperately trying to get filled.  It's been almost two months since they ended the extra unemployment benefits and we're STILL in bad shape.  That was the alleged problem.  It's almost, ALMOST as if people see the crazy #### going on here the the virus and are choosing to not participate in the crazy.

This reply sounds like it wandered over from another thread and got lost. :kicksrock:

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Just now, ignatiusjreilly said:

This reply sounds like it wandered over from another thread and got lost. :kicksrock:

:bag:

I can see that.  It's been argued in this thread and others that the reason people weren't working is because they were being paid too much to stay home.  That talking point is it relates to this state is officially debunked, at least here in Central Florida.  Unemployment is still a massive issue and people aren't working.

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8 minutes ago, The Commish said:

:bag:

I can see that.  It's been argued in this thread and others that the reason people weren't working is because they were being paid too much to stay home.  That talking point is it relates to this state is officially debunked, at least here in Central Florida.  Unemployment is still a massive issue and people aren't working.

Yeah, I could tell you were talking about a Florida issue, but it just seemed like your first line was responding to a specific post, only I couldn't tell which one. I thought maybe you had done that thing (which I have definitely been guilty of) where you think you're posting in one thread but it's actually in a different one. :doh:

Anyway, hadn't heard that about how cutting off benefits has not had an effect. I wasn't in favor of doing it, but I would still have expected it to have an impact.

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1 hour ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Yeah, I could tell you were talking about a Florida issue, but it just seemed like your first line was responding to a specific post, only I couldn't tell which one. I thought maybe you had done that thing (which I have definitely been guilty of) where you think you're posting in one thread but it's actually in a different one. :doh:

Anyway, hadn't heard that about how cutting off benefits has not had an effect. I wasn't in favor of doing it, but I would still have expected it to have an impact.

Gotta watch your words around here.  Didn't say this.  It's had an effect, just not the one many were claiming.  It's been negligible in this part of the state.

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Nikki Fried

@NikkiFried

I just suspended the concealed weapons permits of 22 people involved in the insurrection against the United States of America instigated by Donald Trump on January 6, 2021.

1:07 PM · Jul 27, 2021·Twitter Web App

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You go Nikki! Her donations page for the guber has a $4.20 option!

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5 hours ago, Joe Mammy said:

Nikki Fried

@NikkiFried

I just suspended the concealed weapons permits of 22 people involved in the insurrection against the United States of America instigated by Donald Trump on January 6, 2021.

1:07 PM · Jul 27, 2021·Twitter Web App

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You go Nikki! Her donations page for the guber has a $4.20 option!

Over/under on how many days before the GOP legislature strips away her power over CWPs?

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Nikki Fried

@NikkiFried

Because our governor won't, today I held the first of regular COVID updates to give Floridians the information and transparency we deserve. This Delta wave is a threat to our health and economic recovery.

10 minute video where she lays out the numbers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

58% increase in infections in the last week. ICU's statewide full of the unvaxxed.

FL accounts for 25% of new infections in the entire country in the last week!!

Only 48% of Floridians vaxed.

She implored, "if you are not vaccinated roll up your sleeve and get your shot today!"

Finally some transparency and leadership. It's about time!

 

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Broward County school students will be wearing masks when school starts, board decides

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When Broward County Public Schools students return to class next month, they will be wearing masks, the nine-member School Board unanimously decided Wednesday.

The decision comes a day after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revised its recommendations about vaccinated people wearing masks indoors, including for teachers, students and staff at schools nationwide. Because of the highly infectious Delta variant of COVID-19, the agency now recommends all people wear facial coverings indoors, regardless of their vaccination status.

“The mask is the only thing you really have to minimize your chance of getting COVID,” Broward School Board Chair Rosalind Osgood told reporters during a break in Wednesday’s meeting at the Kathleen C. Wright Building in Fort Lauderdale.

The first day of school in Broward County is Aug. 18. District officials expect most of the system’s roughly 269,000 students to return to in-person learning.

The board made masks mandatory, amending the district’s reopening plan that contained language that facial coverings remain optional, but “strongly” encouraged.

Board Member Donna Korn said, however, that most students won’t wear masks unless they’re mandatory.

“Making masks voluntary essentially means students aren’t going to wear them,” Korn said.

I think Broward in general is more liberal than Miami-Dade, but this will definitely put pressure on MDCPS to follow suit. As I've said in other threads, I'm leaning in favor of masks in schools, particularly for my own kids, but I'm open to being convinced either way

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"Florida reports single-day increase of 21,683 new COVID-19 cases, most since start of pandemic."

The hospitalizations have surged the last 2 weeks, but appear to be leveling off. That's based on twitter feeds from Miami's Jackson Hospital. The state doesn't provide daily updates on on that, only weekly counts. Deaths should be declining with so many vaccinated, but they're not. Vaccines are preventing an increase in deaths, which is some good news. DeSantis got the vaccine, behind closed doors, maybe he could've prevented some of the 39,000+ COVID-19 deaths in Florida by having a vaccine photo-op. In any event, the numbers don't show that he did worse than Newsom on the health front, although it's nothing to brag about.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/07/31/florida-reports-single-day-increase-of-21683-new-covid-19-cases-most-since-start-of-pandemic/

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I said in an earlier post that DeSantis' biggest flaw is that he's such a rigid ideologue. Sometimes that leads him in the right direction, as with reopening schools or prioritizing seniors during the early vaccine rollout. But at times like this, it's become a kind of trap. He simply doesn't know how to respond to this latest wave because it doesn't fit his ideology.

Which is what led him to tweet this today:

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“We have protected the vulnerable by vaccinating the older population.” - Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Professor of Medicine at Stanford University

I mean, aside from its wrong-ness, how little empathy do you have to possess to make that your message on a day when your state hit record highs in cases and vaccinations, and 108 people died?

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53 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I said in an earlier post that DeSantis' biggest flaw is that he's such a rigid ideologue. Sometimes that leads him in the right direction, as with reopening schools or prioritizing seniors during the early vaccine rollout. But at times like this, it's become a kind of trap. He simply doesn't know how to respond to this latest wave because it doesn't fit his ideology.

Which is what led him to tweet this today:

I mean, aside from its wrong-ness, how little empathy do you have to possess to make that your message on a day when your state hit record highs in cases and vaccinations, and 108 people died?

What is your source for deaths? The state is reporting weekly instead of daily and their report shows 108 deaths for the week of July 23 to July 29.  The NY Times is reporting an average of 58 deaths per day on Jul 31. That's the source for the CovidActNow dashboard. The JHU dashboard is showing 82 deaths on Jul 30. 

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

What is your source for deaths? The state is reporting weekly instead of daily and their report shows 108 deaths for the week of July 23 to July 29.  The NY Times is reporting an average of 58 deaths per day on Jul 31. That's the source for the CovidActNow dashboard. The JHU dashboard is showing 82 deaths on Jul 30. 

 

Well it was originally from this tweet. But your post made me wonder if that was a weekly number, so I did some Googling and found this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page for the Daily Deaths graph. It says 108 on Jul. 31.

The NYTimes page doesn't seem to have updated numbers for the 31st yet; 58 is the seven-day average.

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1 hour ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

 

Well it was originally from this tweet. But your post made me wonder if that was a weekly number, so I did some Googling and found this: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page for the Daily Deaths graph. It says 108 on Jul. 31.

The NYTimes page doesn't seem to have updated numbers for the 31st yet; 58 is the seven-day average.

Haven't official Florida numbers been an issue throughout the pandemic?

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11 hours ago, Desert_Power said:

Haven't official Florida numbers been an issue throughout the pandemic?

If by "an issue" you mean numerous groups coming forward and questioning why the numbers they were giving the state weren't making it onto the state site correctly, yes.  Though, those reports died down in Dec/Jan.  We haven't had one on our local news in months.  From July through Dec it was a weekly segment.  

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20 minutes ago, The Commish said:

If by "an issue" you mean numerous groups coming forward and questioning why the numbers they were giving the state weren't making it onto the state site correctly, yes.  Though, those reports died down in Dec/Jan.  We haven't had one on our local news in months.  From July through Dec it was a weekly segment.  

Yeah, I definitely think there may have been some shenanigans -- I suspect that with all this Covid reporting, there's more subjectivity than we might imagine -- but I've also never bought the Rebekah Jones conspiracy theories that say the numbers are significantly worse than what we've been told.

I would still like to see them go back to daily reporting. 

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13 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Yeah, I definitely think there may have been some shenanigans -- I suspect that with all this Covid reporting, there's more subjectivity than we might imagine -- but I've also never bought the Rebekah Jones conspiracy theories that say the numbers are significantly worse than what we've been told.

I would still like to see them go back to daily reporting. 

In my view, she jumped the shark telling people to step up and speak out about the misrepresentations before "thousands more" died.  That's a bridge too far.  That said, she was absolutely correct to speak up and say the state wasn't putting the numbers on the site correctly.  If one doesn't want to listen to her on that front, listen to the multiple organizations reporting numbers to the state saying what they were reporting wasn't making it onto the site correctly.  Many were consistently incorrect...not just one off.

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25 minutes ago, The Commish said:

In my view, she jumped the shark telling people to step up and speak out about the misrepresentations before "thousands more" died.  That's a bridge too far.  That said, she was absolutely correct to speak up and say the state wasn't putting the numbers on the site correctly.  If one doesn't want to listen to her on that front, listen to the multiple organizations reporting numbers to the state saying what they were reporting wasn't making it onto the site correctly.  Many were consistently incorrect...not just one off.

I think jumped the shark is the perfect description (unless it's "got too far over her skis"?) I'm sure there were legitimate criticisms of the data collection methods, but she went way too far. Ultimately, I don't believe there are any discrepancies that are so large as to cast doubt on the state's overall performance, both because I don't believe DeSantis is moustache-twirling level of evil and because I don't think the state has tight enough control over all the data to pull it off.

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37 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I think jumped the shark is the perfect description (unless it's "got too far over her skis"?) I'm sure there were legitimate criticisms of the data collection methods, but she went way too far. Ultimately, I don't believe there are any discrepancies that are so large as to cast doubt on the state's overall performance, both because I don't believe DeSantis is moustache-twirling level of evil and because I don't think the state has tight enough control over all the data to pull it off.

I agree if the discussion is being had as a matter of percentages.  It's going to be a 1-2% difference at worst.  Raw numbers and perception is where it becomes problematic.  Going that route short changes the real world impact to individuals.  That's wrong IMO.  That said, the reality is, we don't need a dashboard to tell us how screwed up things are here.  Fortunately, over the last year, we've become MUCH better at battling the virus and deaths are going down as a percentage.  That's a good thing.  Florida is always going to be a hot spot area when new variants come out.  We will always be one of those states.  I said at the beginning of this fiasco and still believe it today.  I don't care anymore.  I will continue to wear a mask as a role model for my two kids who still wear them since they can't get the vaccine yet.  We've upgraded their masks (and ours) to the N95 variety.  That's the best we can do.

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1 hour ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I'm really not trying to take over this thread with "Florida governor says dumb $@#%" posts.

But on the other hand, our governor keeps saying dumb $@#%. "Our hospitals are open for business"? THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING!!!!!!!


Wow. A quarter of the nations Covid cases are coming from his state, and he still can’t show a little self control and compassion? Karma can be pretty ugly, Ron. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 7:45 AM, The Commish said:

I agree if the discussion is being had as a matter of percentages.  It's going to be a 1-2% difference at worst.  Raw numbers and perception is where it becomes problematic.  Going that route short changes the real world impact to individuals.  That's wrong IMO.  That said, the reality is, we don't need a dashboard to tell us how screwed up things are here.  Fortunately, over the last year, we've become MUCH better at battling the virus and deaths are going down as a percentage.  That's a good thing.  Florida is always going to be a hot spot area when new variants come out.  We will always be one of those states.  I said at the beginning of this fiasco and still believe it today.  I don't care anymore.  I will continue to wear a mask as a role model for my two kids who still wear them since they can't get the vaccine yet.  We've upgraded their masks (and ours) to the N95 variety.  That's the best we can do.


We owe everything to the healthcare professionals who save us from ourselves.

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