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Florida Politics (2 Viewers)

It's so weird when people who are so hyperpartisn are just doing things that are plain stupid to be plain stupid.  20 years a guy like Desantis would be laughed out the door but here we are.

 
People can piss and moan back and forth about masks all they want.  Does anyone here think it's a good idea to send your kid to school knowing they have COVID simply because they don't have symptoms?  Initially, I see that as next level stupid (but not surprised at all).  What am I missing?  Feb can't get here fast enough!

 
The Commish said:
People can piss and moan back and forth about masks all they want.  Does anyone here think it's a good idea to send your kid to school knowing they have COVID simply because they don't have symptoms?  Initially, I see that as next level stupid (but not surprised at all).  What am I missing?  Feb can't get here fast enough!
I think we need to define our terms here. I can't imagine anyone would argue that someone who is positive + symptomatic shouldn't be quarantined. I also think it's pretty obvious that an asymptomatic positive should also be quarantined (especially since "asymptomatic" may actually mean "pre-symptomatic".) 

But what Ladapo was talking about with his new directive was a situation where a student has been a close contact with a person who tested positive, but the student herself has not tested positive (yet). I'm not sure exactly how "close contact" is defined in that context -- a class where one student is positive and the rest of the class is considered close contacts? Someone came over to their house for dinner a few days ago and later tested positive? -- but I don't think those cases are nearly as cut and dried as the others.

Interestingly, I was talking yesterday to my sister-in-law, who's a school administrator at an elementary school (not in Florida). She said one change this year at her school is that they still make close contacts quarantine, but they're trying to be a little more focused with how they define it. When a student tests positive, they're not just assuming every other kid in the class counts as a CC. Instead, they do some level of contact tracing to determine who that child interacted with, particularly while unmasked. So if your kid was sitting next to the positive kid during lunch, they might count, but if they were on the other side of the room, they might not. Again, I'm not sure of the specifics -- and those specifics really matter -- but in general it sounds like a smarter approach.

 
The Commish said:
People can piss and moan back and forth about masks all they want.  Does anyone here think it's a good idea to send your kid to school knowing they have COVID simply because they don't have symptoms?  Initially, I see that as next level stupid (but not surprised at all).  What am I missing?  Feb can't get here fast enough!
I think we need to define our terms here. I can't imagine anyone would argue that someone who is positive + symptomatic shouldn't be quarantined. I also think it's pretty obvious that an asymptomatic positive should also be quarantined (especially since "asymptomatic" may actually mean "pre-symptomatic".) 

But what Ladapo was talking about with his new directive was a situation where a student has been a close contact with a person who tested positive, but the student herself has not tested positive (yet). I'm not sure exactly how "close contact" is defined in that context -- a class where one student is positive and the rest of the class is considered close contacts? Someone came over to their house for dinner a few days ago and later tested positive? -- but I don't think those cases are nearly as cut and dried as the others.

Interestingly, I was talking yesterday to my sister-in-law, who's a school administrator at an elementary school (not in Florida). She said one change this year at her school is that they still make close contacts quarantine, but they're trying to be a little more focused with how they define it. When a student tests positive, they're not just assuming every other kid in the class counts as a CC. Instead, they do some level of contact tracing to determine who that child interacted with, particularly while unmasked. So if your kid was sitting next to the positive kid during lunch, they might count, but if they were on the other side of the room, they might not. Again, I'm not sure of the specifics -- and those specifics really matter -- but in general it sounds like a smarter approach.
I meant to come back and edit my post.  You are correct.  It was initially reported as I posted, then a clarification/follow up point was made to correct it.  That correction made some sense to me.  The initial comment did not.  :thumbup:  

 
Pro-vaxxers: It makes no sense to oppose Covid vaccine mandates in schools when they already require lots of other vaccines for measles, etc.

Anti-vax state senator: Good point. We should review those other mandates as well:  

Florida’s ongoing response to the COVID-19 pandemic will continue to be a major focus during the 2022 Legislative Session for Sen. Manny Diaz, the top Republican shaping health care policy in the upper chamber.

His work could include revisiting existing vaccine requirements long in place in schools, a response to the debate about whether COVID-19 vaccines should also be required.

Diaz, who came down with COVID-19 last winter, said he wants to review the state’s vaccination efforts as well as Gov. Ron DeSantis’ work on getting monoclonal antibody treatments to those who test positive for COVID-19.

The Senator, who acknowledges he hasn’t gotten a COVID-19 vaccine, says he’s firmly against vaccine mandates. At the urging of the Governor, the Legislature earlier this year passed a bill that would prevent private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination from their customers. But the bill did not ban employers from requiring their employees to be vaccinated.

Unlike some of his Republican colleagues, Diaz said he does not endorse blocking private employers from requiring vaccines.

It  “gets more complicated,” Diaz said of striking the balance between individuals’ and employers’ rights.

Republicans opposed to so-called “vaccine passports” have faced criticism, particularly as it relates to schools where current law already requires a bevy of vaccinations. Under current law, only parents who cite religious or health reasons can have their children exempted from the vaccination requirements.

Diaz said it may be time to “review” those mandates, in place for such illnesses as mumps and measles. But he said there was a difference between long-tested vaccines and the new COVID-19 vaccine.

“I think there’s a distinction when you have something that is proven to work and doesn’t have any side effects,” Diaz said.

 
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MMR have potential side effects..... although serious side effects are extremely rare.....   but no different imo

 
Update on Florida stats LINK
At a glance, looks like the wave has crested and caseloads are going down, so definitely good news. Do we have enough data to say that deaths are declining as well? I ask because I know there was something about how the state's counting method meant that deaths were back-dated to the date they actually occurred rather than the day they were reported. But the graph on p8 would seem to indicate that they've been declining for a few weeks, so hopefully that means they have peaked as well. Too bad this data doesn't include hospitalizations, since that would be another helpful data point

 
At a glance, looks like the wave has crested and caseloads are going down, so definitely good news. Do we have enough data to say that deaths are declining as well? I ask because I know there was something about how the state's counting method meant that deaths were back-dated to the date they actually occurred rather than the day they were reported. But the graph on p8 would seem to indicate that they've been declining for a few weeks, so hopefully that means they have peaked as well. Too bad this data doesn't include hospitalizations, since that would be another helpful data point
That's always been a question that we likely won't know the answer to unfortunately.  Deaths in this state have been tricky if you want to understand them terms of scope and time.

 
This is not a Forida specific thing, but I find it ludicrous to take solace or even credit in the fact that cases are beginning to decline when there were plenty of things that could have been done months ago to avoid the huge spike in cases

 
This is not a Forida specific thing, but I find it ludicrous to take solace or even credit in the fact that cases are beginning to decline when there were plenty of things that could have been done months ago to avoid the huge spike in cases
I mostly agree with this. Some sort of spike in cases was probably inevitable, given the combination of seasonality and Delta. But it probably wouldn't have been as bad as it was, and in terms of hospitalizations and deaths, it's absolutely the case that there are people who would be alive today if states like Florida had pushed vaccines more aggressively in the spring. Incidentally, that's also the reason that, although I expect the political fortunes of governors like DeSantis and Abbot to improve as caseloads drop, I will give them zero credit because it won't erase the damage they've already done

 
Teacher bonus checks are bouncing in Florida

TALLAHASSEE — When dozens of Florida teachers tried to cash their state-issued $1,000 bonus checks this week, they got a startling response: “insufficient funds.”

No, the State of Florida hasn’t run out of money. Instead, the bad checks are being blamed on a “banking error” by JPMorgan Chase.

Checks issued to at least 50 teachers in 22 different counties bounced because of the error, Florida Department of Education spokesman Jared Ochs said.

“We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and are working to correct it, including refunding any fees incurred by the recipients as a result,” Allison Tobin Reed, the bank’s vice president of communications, said in a statement to the Times/Herald.

[...]

The bounced checks were the latest glitch over DeSantis’ handling of $1,000 bonuses to teachers, principals and first responders, money that came from federal COVID relief funding.

Instead of sending the money to school districts to distribute, like in the past, DeSantis’ administration decided to issue the checks individually, with an accompanying letter signed by DeSantis. The state paid a private contractor $3.6 million to print and send the checks. That led some lawmakers and the union representing school teachers to accuse DeSantis of using the bonuses to score political points.

 
It's always weird to see people chafe at good news.
I'm definitely not chafing. I'm unambiguously glad to see the numbers going down. But it doesn't erase my anger at all the lives needlessly lost over the past few months
That wasn't directed at you gb. I think it's perfectly reasonable to feel a variety of emotions. Again not directed at you, but I think we all need to guard against substituting reason with emotions.

 
Teacher bonus checks are bouncing in Florida

TALLAHASSEE — When dozens of Florida teachers tried to cash their state-issued $1,000 bonus checks this week, they got a startling response: “insufficient funds.”

No, the State of Florida hasn’t run out of money. Instead, the bad checks are being blamed on a “banking error” by JPMorgan Chase.

Checks issued to at least 50 teachers in 22 different counties bounced because of the error, Florida Department of Education spokesman Jared Ochs said.

“We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and are working to correct it, including refunding any fees incurred by the recipients as a result,” Allison Tobin Reed, the bank’s vice president of communications, said in a statement to the Times/Herald.

[...]

The bounced checks were the latest glitch over DeSantis’ handling of $1,000 bonuses to teachers, principals and first responders, money that came from federal COVID relief funding.

Instead of sending the money to school districts to distribute, like in the past, DeSantis’ administration decided to issue the checks individually, with an accompanying letter signed by DeSantis. The state paid a private contractor $3.6 million to print and send the checks. That led some lawmakers and the union representing school teachers to accuse DeSantis of using the bonuses to score political points.
It's be nice if they could get around to providing the funds to the districts that have requested them as well.  The federal gov't allocated 7+ billion dollars to Florida and i know counties including mine and those around it have put in requests for about $35 million and have yet to see it.  Of course the state has "responded" by saying essentially "all states are slow to provide funds" which is true, but "hey, I'm not any worse than that poor shlub over there" has never really been a compelling case for anything has it?

And then on top of that Florida is one of two states that hasn't submitted a spending plan to the DoE on the next round.  Not doing so will keep them from another $3B.  I think about all that money and how much is just sitting there and I think about them threatening to cut teacher pay or taking away funding for virtual school and it just leaves me shaking my head.

 
Interesting piece. TLDR: Trump is cleaning up among small donors, but the Wall Street guys are getting behind DeSantis. Which makes sense. The Richie Riches never liked Trump to begin with, and I'm sure they see DeSantis as both more stable and more electable.

Also, this line had some strong "assume a can opener" energy: 

A recent poll by Republican polling firm Echelon Insights put DeSantis at the front of the pack of possible 2024 contenders, such as Mike Pence and former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, in a hypothetical contest without Trump.
In related news, in a hypothetical world in which Justin Tucker was arrested on his way to Ford Field Sunday morning, the Lions defeated the Ravens 17-16.

 
That wasn't directed at you gb. I think it's perfectly reasonable to feel a variety of emotions. Again not directed at you, but I think we all need to guard against substituting reason with emotions.
I totally get what you're saying. Usually we see stuff like this with respect to the economy: when one party is in power, partisans on the other side have a natural bias toward hoping the economy does worse so that it hurts their opponents. And that's not a totally irrational thing to want! If your opponents are a complete disaster for the country/economy/Covid response, then the best thing that can happen in the long term is for them to lose power.

The problem is that such considerations make far more sense in the abstract than IRL. Let's suppose we could prove that more deaths in the fall of 2020 ended up getting Biden elected, allowing him to implement a better vaccine rollout that saved more lives on a net basis. That's cold comfort to the people who died last fall (and considering that one of those people was my father-in-law, I am constantly mindful of the real-world consequences).

The other interesting thing as it applies to Covid in Florida right now is that you have a president and governor from different parties. Thanks to Delta, both Biden and DeSantis have seen their numbers drop over the past couple months, but ultimately it's a zero-sum game. It's highly unlikely that Biden loses Congress while at the same time DeSantis loses his re-election bid. (The opposite, where Biden gains seats as DeSantis gets re-elected, is more plausible, but still probably not the most likely outcome). So if you're a partisan in Florida who is motivated solely by political fortunes, I'm not even sure what you should be rooting for. (Obviously, as a human, you should be rooting for cases to decline).

And I will also concede there is a strain on the left that absolutely refuses to embrace any good news. Maybe they worry about what happened this spring, where the assumption that the pandemic was over contributed to the Delta spike. Maybe they're just really scarred by the past year and a half and reluctant to celebrate anything until it's absolutely clear we're out of the woods. Maybe it's just force of habit after constantly feeling like they have to fight off people who are too eager to get back to normal. But caution at good news can easily curdle into chafing and pushing back against it.

 
Took my kids to school this AM and that afforded me a rare opportunity to listen to NPR.  It was mentioned that in the last 6 months, Florida is seeing a rate of approx 90 per 100,000 dying from COVID.  That was labeled the highest among the top 6 in death rate, so I went and looked.

COVID deaths since April 1:

Florida - 19,590
Texas - 14,169
California - 6,408
New York - 4,930
Pennsylvania - 4,021
Illinois - 3,839

The bold stood out to me because of the silly comparisons we were making before between Newsom and DeSantis.  It seems to me that if we are going to make person vs person or state vs state comparisons (and I don't think we should, but we can't seem to help ourselves) we really need to do it in terms of the waves and strands of the virus.  In the era of Delta, Florida's death rate is 3 times larger than that of NY and 5 times larger than that of CA.  Texas is just under half.  We are talking about a period of time where every single adult (who wants one) has access to a successful vaccine.

To be fair, Florida isn't at the bottom of the barrel in terms of vaccinations, but it's not a great rate either.  Also, it may be that Florida is just getting their issue out of the way as many have been inside all summer.  Maybe the other states catch up this winter?  Doesn't seem likely, but it's possible.  

I hadn't really paid attention to what was going on in other states because ours has been so freakin' chaotic all by itself, but man this is brutal.  All that said, it DOES look like our numbers are going down finally, so hopefully in a few weeks we can see pretty close to the totality of how Florida fared with the Delta strand.  I just hope we don't get another variant that's worse than Delta.  It's rather clear that Florida will continue to be the petri dish for each wave as this thing continues.  I really wish the state would put more into media on getting vaccinated.

 
This stood out because I thought Florida did better than NY. This article is quoting CDC numbers LINK Covid deaths per 100k

New York 281

Florida 241
So that number is the entirety of the event best I can tell.  As I said before:

It seems to me that if we are going to make person vs person or state vs state comparisons (and I don't think we should, but we can't seem to help ourselves) we really need to do it in terms of the waves and strands of the virus.  In the era of Delta, Florida's death rate is 3 times larger than that of NY and 5 times larger than that of CA.  Texas is just under half.  We are talking about a period of time where every single adult (who wants one) has access to a successful vaccine.


So basically, over the entirety of the event Florida is still doing "better" than NY, but there was a HUGE gap Florida managed to close from April til now.  Two things are significantly different (and we need to keep them in mind) between the period after April and period prior.  #1 is the aggressiveness of delta variant.  #2 is availability of vaccine.  Does the CDC have historical data where we can look at the chart you provided above back in April?

 
Took my kids to school this AM and that afforded me a rare opportunity to listen to NPR.  It was mentioned that in the last 6 months, Florida is seeing a rate of approx 90 per 100,000 dying from COVID.  That was labeled the highest among the top 6 in death rate, so I went and looked.

COVID deaths since April 1:

Florida - 19,590
Texas - 14,169
California - 6,408
New York - 4,930
Pennsylvania - 4,021
Illinois - 3,839

The bold stood out to me because of the silly comparisons we were making before between Newsom and DeSantis.  It seems to me that if we are going to make person vs person or state vs state comparisons (and I don't think we should, but we can't seem to help ourselves) we really need to do it in terms of the waves and strands of the virus.  In the era of Delta, Florida's death rate is 3 times larger than that of NY and 5 times larger than that of CA.  Texas is just under half.  We are talking about a period of time where every single adult (who wants one) has access to a successful vaccine.

To be fair, Florida isn't at the bottom of the barrel in terms of vaccinations, but it's not a great rate either.  Also, it may be that Florida is just getting their issue out of the way as many have been inside all summer.  Maybe the other states catch up this winter?  Doesn't seem likely, but it's possible.  

I hadn't really paid attention to what was going on in other states because ours has been so freakin' chaotic all by itself, but man this is brutal.  All that said, it DOES look like our numbers are going down finally, so hopefully in a few weeks we can see pretty close to the totality of how Florida fared with the Delta strand.  I just hope we don't get another variant that's worse than Delta.  It's rather clear that Florida will continue to be the petri dish for each wave as this thing continues.  I really wish the state would put more into media on getting vaccinated.
A couple thoughts:

  • As I've said previously, I find the comparisons between states totally misguided. No state will win a medal at the end of all this for killing fewer people. States, countries, municipalities should be judged on how they did in absolute, rather than relative, terms
  • I've been very critical of DeSantis, but I've really made an effort to center my criticisms around process rather than results. Whatever the numbers for Florida or any other state, they are determined by a number of factors, some of which are beyond the control of any one person. DeSantis was never as good as his supporters were arguing back in the spring, nor as bad as his detractors are arguing right now, nor as good as he will probably look if the numbers swing back in the other direction again. My issue with him is that he has repeatedly downplayed the vaccine for non-seniors and indulged the anti-vaxxers, whether due to misguided ideology, political calculation, or some other reason. That would be wrong regardless of whether it moved Florida from 13th to 37th or whatever in deaths per 100K.
  • That said, the combination of his rigid ideology and the circumstances of Delta's spread seem to have led to a particularly bad (and foreseeable) outcome. If you kick a FG on 4th and goal from the one-foot line to go up 4, and then Rodgers gets the ball back and drives down for the winning TD against your Swiss-cheese defense, that's a bad process leading to a bad result that you really should have expected. 
 
florida nearing pivotal 85% mark in covid

TAMPA, Fla. - Florida has almost reached the level of immunity against COVID-19 needed to make a significant impact against the delta variant wave, one of the virus' leading researchers at USF said Friday.

According to Dr. Thomas Unnasch, who has studied COVID-19 throughout the pandemic, scientists at USF have determined that, through a combination of vaccinations and natural immunity acquired by surviving infection, 84% of Floridians have immunity to COVID-19. 

Experts have previously said 85% of the state would have to be immune to reach herd immunity against the delta variant.

 
A couple thoughts:

  • indulged the anti-vaxxers, whether due to misguided ideology, political calculation, or some other reason. That would be wrong regardless of whether it moved Florida from 13th to 37th or whatever in deaths per 100K. 
Not sure I agree but I guess it would depend on how you define "indulge" and especially how you define "anti vaxxer".

 
Hillsborough County schools just voted to end the mask mandate.  :thumbup:
Don't know enough about this to say whether it's a good idea, but I am at least glad to see it's based on declining positivity rates. I don't have any particular emotional attachment for or against masks; if they can help save lives, I'm in favor of them. If they don't play a major role and people want to stop wearing them, I guess that's fine, too.

 
Absolutely infuriating

Everything about this story makes my blood boil: ignoring the will  of the voters, instituting a poll tax, making it so Kafkaesque that many people find it impossible to pay their fines even if they have the money, and worst of all, doing all this to perpetuate a voting restriction that is literally from the era of Jim Crow
Don't forget putting things "in scope" that weren't outlined on the ballot initiative.  

 
Absolutely infuriating

Everything about this story makes my blood boil: ignoring the will  of the voters, instituting a poll tax, making it so Kafkaesque that many people find it impossible to pay their fines even if they have the money, and worst of all, doing all this to perpetuate a voting restriction that is literally from the era of Jim Crow
https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_rights_for_convicted_felons

There are laws in each and every state in the union regarding what you lose when you murder and/or commit certain felonies. A felony is not a small matter.  Sometimes, when you do things...bad things...there are consequences.  

There are always arcs for redemption but there are also rules and conditions before a restoration.  At one time, Florida actually made movements to restore rights to people who completed their sentences. At the time it was the largest vote restoration in the nation. During this past election, Bloomberg gave millions and millions of dollars to pay these fines for people to restore their rights. 

Each of us may come to different views of something like this but we should at least look at it in it's entirety and understand that this situation comes as a result of serious individual actions and the state of Florida and other states have exacted a lot of legislation to give a restoration option IF the offending person is willing to repay society. As a citizen, if I owe $8,000 to be able to vote again as the offset of my felony or murder, that may be reasonable to me, unreasonable to the family of whose father I killed, etc.  Perspective. 

 
https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_rights_for_convicted_felons

There are laws in each and every state in the union regarding what you lose when you murder and/or commit certain felonies. A felony is not a small matter.  Sometimes, when you do things...bad things...there are consequences.  

There are always arcs for redemption but there are also rules and conditions before a restoration.  At one time, Florida actually made movements to restore rights to people who completed their sentences. At the time it was the largest vote restoration in the nation. During this past election, Bloomberg gave millions and millions of dollars to pay these fines for people to restore their rights. 

Each of us may come to different views of something like this but we should at least look at it in it's entirety and understand that this situation comes as a result of serious individual actions and the state of Florida and other states have exacted a lot of legislation to give a restoration option IF the offending person is willing to repay society. As a citizen, if I owe $8,000 to be able to vote again as the offset of my felony or murder, that may be reasonable to me, unreasonable to the family of whose father I killed, etc.  Perspective. 
meh.....the ballot initiative was to restore rights of felons who have completed their sentences.  It's ok to be pissed off that the legislature went against that and added things in their overreach.  None of what you post here has to do with the problems this legislature created.  If a fine was part of their sentence then I'd expect the payment to be part of the terms in defining "completing their sentence".  That's not where they stopped.

 
meh.....the ballot initiative was to restore rights of felons who have completed their sentences.  It's ok to be pissed off that the legislature went against that and added things in their overreach.  None of what you post here has to do with the problems this legislature created.  If a fine was part of their sentence then I'd expect the payment to be part of the terms in defining "completing their sentence".  That's not where they stopped.
When people respond with "meh" it clearly discloses the level of commitment you have to actually adding some discussion to something.  You want to dismiss it in a way you think is cool and trendy without getting to the actual details.  That's fine. Just say that. Or better yet...don't say anything.  

But don't be that small person who wants to hate on something so bad that you will just completely ignore reality and facts and try to undermine what took place.  The state made the largest sweeping change in the nations.  Dems and Republicans both praised the initiative.  You might think little of it but it wasn't that long ago in this country that people thought it reasonable that if your raped, murdered, committed felonies that it was reasonable that you might not get a voice in this country as a heinous offender.  But nevermind that. Florida, this state some people are wanting to criticize over this, actually said "you serve your sentence, you can vote again".  

There was no problem with issues created from this. they didn't even HAVE to extend the olive branch...but they did.  So, after the fact, when someone said "hey, a sentence isn't just the time a person spent in a cell and orange jumper" (just like how one thing doesn't usually define an of us in any aspect of life), it was not at all reasonable to say repaying your debt to society also actually requires you....repay it.  It is not like ANY plan or action that is put into place isn't commonly subject to review and refinement. 

So don't be shallow and state it like "they didn't stop".  Don't color it falsely because you know like the rest of us that policies are implemented and refined.  It was never "they didn't stop". It was "they did something (something they didn't even have to) and then they refined it to set up reasonable requirements to regain a privilege that THEY jeopardized when they raped, murdered, committed felonies.  They aren't victims here.  The true victims are dead or gravely ruined for life. 

 
When people respond with "meh" it clearly discloses the level of commitment you have to actually adding some discussion to something.  You want to dismiss it in a way you think is cool and trendy without getting to the actual details.  That's fine. Just say that. Or better yet...don't say anything.  

But don't be that small person who wants to hate on something so bad that you will just completely ignore reality and facts and try to undermine what took place.  The state made the largest sweeping change in the nations.  Dems and Republicans both praised the initiative.  You might think little of it but it wasn't that long ago in this country that people thought it reasonable that if your raped, murdered, committed felonies that it was reasonable that you might not get a voice in this country as a heinous offender.  But nevermind that. Florida, this state some people are wanting to criticize over this, actually said "you serve your sentence, you can vote again".  

There was no problem with issues created from this. they didn't even HAVE to extend the olive branch...but they did.  So, after the fact, when someone said "hey, a sentence isn't just the time a person spent in a cell and orange jumper" (just like how one thing doesn't usually define an of us in any aspect of life), it was not at all reasonable to say repaying your debt to society also actually requires you....repay it.  It is not like ANY plan or action that is put into place isn't commonly subject to review and refinement. 

So don't be shallow and state it like "they didn't stop".  Don't color it falsely because you know like the rest of us that policies are implemented and refined.  It was never "they didn't stop". It was "they did something (something they didn't even have to) and then they refined it to set up reasonable requirements to regain a privilege that THEY jeopardized when they raped, murdered, committed felonies.  They aren't victims here.  The true victims are dead or gravely ruined for life. 
This has been thoroughly discussed in this thread already.  It's pretty simple.  The legislature was tasked with passing a specific thing by the voters.  They are held by state Constitutional law to do that thing.  It wasn't a suggestion or a recommendation.  This notion of "be happy they did something.  They didn't have to do anything" is patently absurd.  And what was being asked wasn't ground breaking.  Many other states have already done this sort of thing.  The voters here are simply dragging the legislature along at this point.  The problem, of course, was they went well beyond the specific thing they were supposed to do.  If you'd like to address that, then please do.  I saw that nowhere in the word salad above.  As I said in my initial post, I have no problem with fines communicated via the sentencing.  Those should be paid back.  It's all the other stuff outside the sentence that they dumped on top of it that's the problem.  That's overreach and well outside of what the amendment required that the people voted on.

To the bold, that's still true in this state and most others.  Makes me wonder if you even know what the legislature wrote on this honestly.  There are carve outs that forfeit voting rights forever in this state and most others.  Take up the non sequitur with those making that argument.  I'm not.  I'm fine with that carve out.  

Oh, and maybe stay away from the personal insults?  Or not, it's a reflection on you more than anything.  

 
This has been thoroughly discussed in this thread already.  It's pretty simple.  The legislature was tasked with passing a specific thing by the voters.  They are held by state Constitutional law to do that thing.  It wasn't a suggestion or a recommendation. 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but did the legislature have to do anything? My impression was that voter-approved amendments are self-operationalizing. Certainly, the county elections officials who immediately started registering ex-felons after the election seemed to think so.

 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but did the legislature have to do anything? My impression was that voter-approved amendments are self-operationalizing. Certainly, the county elections officials who immediately started registering ex-felons after the election seemed to think so.
Someone has to put the laws on the books. This was an amendment to make them put it on the books, plus some. 

 
https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_rights_for_convicted_felons

There are laws in each and every state in the union regarding what you lose when you murder and/or commit certain felonies. A felony is not a small matter.  Sometimes, when you do things...bad things...there are consequences.  

There are always arcs for redemption but there are also rules and conditions before a restoration.  At one time, Florida actually made movements to restore rights to people who completed their sentences. At the time it was the largest vote restoration in the nation. During this past election, Bloomberg gave millions and millions of dollars to pay these fines for people to restore their rights. 

Each of us may come to different views of something like this but we should at least look at it in it's entirety and understand that this situation comes as a result of serious individual actions and the state of Florida and other states have exacted a lot of legislation to give a restoration option IF the offending person is willing to repay society. As a citizen, if I owe $8,000 to be able to vote again as the offset of my felony or murder, that may be reasonable to me, unreasonable to the family of whose father I killed, etc.  Perspective. 
Amendment 4 excludes murderers and felony sexual offenders. Almost 50% of felons in jail committed drug offenses. The entire implementation of Amendment 4 is about political power. 

 
Sigh. They never learn.

Rolando Barrero is the type of person a congressional candidate ought to know.

Barrero, an art gallery owner and president of the Democratic Hispanic Caucus in Palm Beach County, hosts voter registration events and organizes rallies with committed party stalwarts who could help knock on doors and move the needle in a competitive election.

But since longtime U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings died in April, triggering a special primary election scheduled for November 2, Barrero, who lives in Hastings’ district, said he’s heard from just one of the 11 Democrats running.

“There’s absolutely no outreach to Hispanic voters,” Barrero said. “Only one of them made an attempt on a Zoom call to address the Hispanic community.”

Florida’s 20th Congressional District, which includes portions of Palm Beach and Broward Counties, is a majority-Black and heavily Democratic seat, meaning whoever wins the Democratic primary is essentially a member of Congress in-waiting until the general election in January 2022. But while Black voters make up about 53% of the district’s population, Hispanic voters comprise 27%, the second-largest population group in the seat, according to 2019 Census figures.

Yet, despite a saturated field and a Hispanic population percentage that mirrors Florida’s statewide average, Democrats and political strategists who are following the race say none of the 11 candidates running for the Democratic nomination appear to be making a concerted effort to campaign for Hispanic votes or releasing campaign materials in Spanish.
The point isn't to critique the tactics of candidates in a single primary in a majority-Black district. The point is that Florida Dems should have it in their DNA by now to build in appeals to Latinos, and they just don't. That suggests a much deeper rot.

Years ago, I had a friend who did a lot of business in Russia. He told me that payoffs to local mafia bosses were referred to as "the roof", because if you wanted to start a business that was the first thing you needed to take care of. Latinos should be FL Dems' roof, much like evangelicals are for Republicans or unions are for Dems in the Midwest. 

If Dems ever figure out how to unlock the Latino vote, they could easily flip the state. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, and it will take a ground-up rethinking of how the party operates

 
Florida’s governor wants a special session of the Legislature to pass new COVID laws

Florida’s governor has declared war on mandatory COVID-19 vaccination.

At a Thursday news conference in Clearwater, Gov. Ron DeSantis laid out a litany of legislative policy priorities that would undermine federal requirements that workers be vaccinated against the coronavirus.

Among the laws DeSantis wants to see passed:

A proposal making businesses liable for any medical harm that results from a mandatory vaccination

A measure allowing parents to collect attorney’s fees if they win a lawsuit against a school district for enacting illegal coronavirus restrictions

A law making it clear that it’s illegal for governments to mandate the vaccine for government employees
I had initially seen reports that he wants to prevent private employers from mandating vaccines for their employees, but I don't see any mention of that in the Herald's article

 
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There are always arcs for redemption but there are also rules and conditions before a restoration.  At one time, Florida actually made movements to restore rights to people who completed their sentences. At the time it was the largest vote restoration in the nation. During this past election, Bloomberg gave millions and millions of dollars to pay these fines for people to restore their rights. 


This still bothers me.  A fine is part of your punishment, same as a jail sentence.  

You can't have somebody do the jail time for you, why should someone else be able to pay your fine?

 
This still bothers me.  A fine is part of your punishment, same as a jail sentence.  

You can't have somebody do the jail time for you, why should someone else be able to pay your fine?
Because money is fungible, time isn't.  What's the difference if I give you the money then you pay the fine, I pay you to perform a service for me then you pay the fine, or I pay the fine directly?

 

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