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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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2 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

Undeserving may have been the wrong word. How about unqualified? Im referring to the people not currently eligible who are gaming the on-line systems to get ahead of those that are qualified just so they can go on some tropical vacation next month. Its just all so predictable. People suck, whatever.

I go back and forth on this. The whole concept of some vaccine committee deciding who deserves to get it first is kind of unamerican. 

But i also dont want to kill grandma. But I also dont want a smoker to leapfrog my wife. 

So this isnt really a cut and dried topic.

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16 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Based on people I know they fall into one of 3 categories:

1) over 65 or 75 depending on the state

2) medical field worker

3) relatively well off white person with “connections”

So relatively well off black people cant get it ?

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1 hour ago, E-Z Glider said:

There are lots of self-centered people out there with no moral compass who will gladly push their way ahead of deserving people who actually qualify for the vaccine. Shocking, I know.

You have to think about it terms of on-the-ground social conditions in other regions, though. For example, in wide swaths of the rural South right now, many Tier 1 folks (both elderly and medical staff) are willfully refusing the vaccines. In that environment, it's A-OK for the healthy 20-year-old to stroll up into a pharmacy and receive a vaccine that's 30 minutes from having to go into a trash can.

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3 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

So relatively well off black people cant get it ?

I saw a brief news blurb that currently there is racial disparity in vaccinations, hopefully everyone that wants a vaccine gets one soon.

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11 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

So this isnt really a cut and dried topic.

You're right, its not. I know a few people that have used (abused) connections and a few others that have blatantly gamed the system when I still know age 65+ people that haven't gotten an appt. Thats pretty gross to me. If the opportunity just fell into my lap, or I knew of excess due to lack of demand, I suppose I wouldnt pass it up though. 

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15 minutes ago, Dezbelief said:

I saw a brief news blurb that currently there is racial disparity in vaccinations, hopefully everyone that wants a vaccine gets one soon.

Did it say why? The first article i read about this topic had a headline that said that, but then when you read it, it was because there is racial disparity in the health profession so of course it would be that way. This was early though. 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

Did it say why? The first article i read about this topic had a headline that said that, but then when you read it, it was because there is racial disparity in the health profession so of course it would be that way. This was early though. 

I didn't listen too hard to it, hopefully it will equal out as more mass vaccination sites are opened up.

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59 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Yes, I've noticed this same dynamic for a long time.  It gets on my nerves and I've started to police my own language to avoid assigning blame to people who get covid.  I'm sure everyone understands intellectually that masks, social distancing, etc. aren't infallible and that you can still catch a communicable disease just from being unlucky, but you wouldn't know that from the moralistic way that folks sometimes discuss the issue. 

It similarly gets on my nerves when people are living life like nothing has changed, and when they get COVID their reaction is “how/why did this happen to me?”

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3 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:
29 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

So relatively well off black people cant get it ?

Where did I write that?  I’m just writing about the people I know who’ve been vaccinated.

Dropping in the descriptor "white" can be triggering, for right or wrong. Expounding further will require a trip to the Politics Forum.

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I can only really speak for Dallas, but the racial disparity here is mostly driven by the fact that the 1B classification is broader in white people due to access to health care.  The loophole/divide that is being used is hypertension, where there is a "loophole". Even legit hypertension is driving this.

White people are dramatically more likely to be prescribed medicine for hypertension than poorer and blacker people.  Having a prescribed HT medicine is a ticket to a shot. (here, YMMV)

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/circoutcomes.116.003166#:~:text=Among%20the%203%20groups%2C%20the,JNC%208%20standards%20were%20applied.

There are likely other issues, likely simply access to the internet that are driving disparity as well as mistrust of the vax, and poor education about the risks.  I am just reporting what the going theory is locally, where the disparity gap is closing.  

This is a situation where you can let perfect be the enemy.  Let's just get these shots handed out.

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Dropping in the descriptor "white" can be triggering, for right or wrong. Expounding further will require a trip to the Politics Forum.

Got it.  I’ll go check in with my wealthy non-Caucasian friends so that I can have a well rounded personal experience.

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18 hours ago, nirad3 said:

Dumb question - how are some of you able to get the vaccine?  Are you in healthcare?  High-risk? 

According to everything I've read, the only folks getting vaccines in California are frontline healthcare workers and older folks.

Are things being done differently in other states?

Every state is different, and even some counties or specific locations.  For example, I am in PA which has added a bunch of eligible categories to 1A (not sure why they didn't just call it 1B or 2).  My local county hospital, however, states that despite the new state guidance, they are only vaccinating healthcare professionals, due to their supply.  But now Rite Aid is vaccinating everyone in 1A and they are just a few blocks away from the hospital.

I do think that once demand flatten a bit in the healthcare, 75+ and first responders, that they should just open the mega sites and pharmacies up for everyone and get as many shots in the arms as possible,  And then when that flattens, flood the zone in communities that are still lagging.  I want thing to be equitable, but we should really be concentrating on how to get to 75% penetration as fast as possible.  

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5 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I do think that once demand flatten a bit in the healthcare, 75+ and first responders, that they should just open the mega sites and pharmacies up for everyone and get as many shots in the arms as possible,  And then when that flattens, flood the zone in communities that are still lagging.  I want thing to be equitable, but we should really be concentrating on how to get to 75% penetration as fast as possible.  

The bolded is a big deal. There's going to come a point (might be there now, really) where they're going to have to bring mobile clinics (think Bloodmobile-type set-ups) into certain areas. 

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4 minutes ago, Doug B said:

The bolded is a big deal. There's going to come a point (might be there now, really) where they're going to have to bring mobile clinics (think Bloodmobile-type set-ups) into certain areas. 

100%.  And I don't get how every assisted living facility in the country doesn't have a mobile unit coming in to vaccinate all residents and employees and even vendors.

 

My company is working with the VA Dept of Health to have them come in and vaccinate residents at one of our senior housing communities.  

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36 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

With everyone getting vaccinated ASAP as the obvious goal, this time period of who can and can't get the vaccine is temporary. By May it will be a memory.

Having said that, I would like to see them expedite the J&J approval process somewhat. Let's go.

Conspiracy theory; J/J wants to slow down the process to make it a two shot thing to bring in more monies

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My son (#4, 17yo) was sent home from work today for having covid symptoms. He works about two hours from home, stays at a house with his friends there from Monday to Friday and then comes home for weekends. Last week two of his coworkers were sent home but they didn’t get tested. He’s getting tested at 2:45. I have him isolating in his room, his brother moved into the other kids room. What else can I do for now?

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38 minutes ago, Clown Car said:

My son (#4, 17yo) was sent home from work today for having covid symptoms. He works about two hours from home, stays at a house with his friends there from Monday to Friday and then comes home for weekends. Last week two of his coworkers were sent home but they didn’t get tested. He’s getting tested at 2:45. I have him isolating in his room, his brother moved into the other kids room. What else can I do for now?

If there's an air intake from his room into the central AC, have him block it with a plastic sheet / bag and painter's tape.  Have him open the window to his room.  Try to make it a negative pressure flow from the rest of the house, so that his room sucks in air from the rest of the house and blows it out the window.  Yes, it might get cold in there.

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29 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

do current tests pick up the new variants as well?  Or are those only being identified by studying lab samples after the fact?

The first few paragraphs in this CDC article indicate that a full genomic sequencing of a sample has to be taken to suss out different variants/strains. The familiar swab-based PCR tests do not get anywhere near as detailed.

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:
2 hours ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

do current tests pick up the new variants as well?  Or are those only being identified by studying lab samples after the fact?

The first few paragraphs in this CDC article indicate that a full genomic sequencing of a sample has to be taken to suss out different variants/strains. The familiar swab-based PCR tests do not get anywhere near as detailed.

I would also add that the swab-based PCR test can detect the new variants, but they cannot identify them as being different than other strains.  For swab tests, I do not believe that there are more false-negatives with the new strains than the older ones.

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15 minutes ago, CR69 said:

When they update the vaccines for new variants will that require new studies or can they jump straight to production?

IIRC from reading about that, the process they would use to update it doesn't alter it in a way that would require more trials. So straight to production. 

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12 minutes ago, CR69 said:

When they update the vaccines for new variants will that require new studies or can they jump straight to production?

That's the million-dollar question -- proof-of-concept and safety trials for essentially the same vaccines are already completed. To me, it beggars belief that encoding the vaccine's RNA molecule slightly differently would cause some radical change in side effects ... but I'm not paid the big bucks to navigate these obstacles or to make these decisions.

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1 minute ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:
17 minutes ago, CR69 said:

When they update the vaccines for new variants will that require new studies or can they jump straight to production?

IIRC from reading about that, the process they would use to update it doesn't alter it in a way that would require more trials. So straight to production. 

Awesome -- better than I've been hoping.

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3 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

If there's an air intake from his room into the central AC, have him block it with a plastic sheet / bag and painter's tape.  Have him open the window to his room.  Try to make it a negative pressure flow from the rest of the house, so that his room sucks in air from the rest of the house and blows it out the window.  Yes, it might get cold in there.

This seems a bit overly dramatic. JMO.

I slept in same bed as my wife and didn't even get sick. Not saying that's the right thing to do either but I do think isolation in his room is enough. This is not a zombie virus.

 

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4 hours ago, Clown Car said:

My son (#4, 17yo) was sent home from work today for having covid symptoms. He works about two hours from home, stays at a house with his friends there from Monday to Friday and then comes home for weekends. Last week two of his coworkers were sent home but they didn’t get tested. He’s getting tested at 2:45. I have him isolating in his room, his brother moved into the other kids room. What else can I do for now?

If he has to leave the room to use the bathroom have him wear a mask

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3 minutes ago, jobarules said:

If he has to leave the room to use the bathroom have him wear a mask

He doesn’t. It’s a perfect set up. Got the windows open half way on each side. They are across from each other. He has a full bathroom. Computer internet phone. No air intake, just a blowing in register. I will be the only one to go in and take him food. 

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3 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

If there's an air intake from his room into the central AC, have him block it with a plastic sheet / bag and painter's tape.  Have him open the window to his room.  Try to make it a negative pressure flow from the rest of the house, so that his room sucks in air from the rest of the house and blows it out the window.  Yes, it might get cold in there.

Good thing we live in Florida. Won’t get too cold. 

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1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

First two cases of the UK variant confirmed in Bexar county. I'm three weeks from immunity (due to two week delay on shot two). Can I make it???

What I understand is it takes them 40 days to do that type of analysis.   RIP

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On 2/8/2021 at 7:05 AM, themeanmachine said:

Scott Gottlieb is predicting by April we'll have enough vaccines in the US for anyone to be able to get one. Would be pretty amazing.

https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1358766421531111427

I’m going to strongly disagree on this. You have to think of everything on 3 or 4 week rotation depending on the vaccine. For easy of comparison, let’s just round it up a month and use my store as an example:

January: 1st Doses for 75+
February: 2nd Doses for 75+, limited 1st doses for 65+
March: 2nd Doses for some 65+, Limited  1st doses for 65+ and maybe pre-existing conditions
April: 2nd Doses, limited 1st doses

We are still doing 75+. There is still a ton of demand for that age group but we may start opening it up for 65+. For our first cycle we didn’t max out our appointments, so now that we are we have limited 1st doses for people. If we had started off more aggressive, all we would be doing this month would be 2nd doses.

Realistically in February we will barely touch the demand for 65+ and will likely need much of March and April to get that age group both doses. The two dose series and limited capacity will limit the speed of how quickly we can move through age groups.

An optimistic estimate for open access would be mid-summer.

There’s high expectations for the role of community pharmacies on ramping up these numbers and chains are making unrealistic goals that are going to lead to chaos. Currently they’re working to spread out vaccines to a large chunk of the pharmacies. I expect there to be big hiccups that might even lead to a decrease in daily doses given. You’ll see an increased gap in doses allocated and doses given because you’re redistributing vaccine from highly efficient locations like the PODs and clinics and putting them into inefficient and inexperienced locations.

Eventually it might work but it will take flexibility that most major chains will not be willing to do.

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8 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Eventually it might work but it will take flexibility that most major chains will not be willing to do.

It seems obvious that retail pharmacies should not be the front line distribution network but should act as a complimentary locations to the mass vaccination sites where they can service thousands per day.  Either that or the federal and state government should be putting up $ to pay for staff at the pharmacies to handle the vaccination and organizational duties.

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17 hours ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

do current tests pick up the new variants as well?  Or are those only being identified by studying lab samples after the fact?

Different tests amplify different parts of the virus’ genome, and they usually amplify several segments. AFAIK, the new variants are still detected by most (if not all) nucleic acid tests (eg. PCR), though I vaguely remember something suggesting antigen and/or antibody tests may not be as accurate.

ETA @Doug Band @The Z Machine have it covered

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28 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

It seems obvious that retail pharmacies should not be the front line distribution network but should act as a complimentary locations to the mass vaccination sites where they can service thousands per day.  Either that or the federal and state government should be putting up $ to pay for staff at the pharmacies to handle the vaccination and organizational duties.

Even if every retail pharmacy just did one vial a day that is a heck of a lot of doses. I mean there are 14million Duane Reades in NYC alone. Or at least that is what it seems like when I go there. 

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12 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

There will be boatloads of it.  Count me in too.

I can't get a clear message on the timeline for J/J.  Does anyone have a news story or something about the distribution that spellas all this out?.  

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1 minute ago, CR69 said:

Why when it's the least effective? Aren't Moderna and Pfizer also the easiest to get boosters for variants?

Why?  Because I'd gladly take a mostly effective vaccine at this point.   And then get a stronger one or a booster in 6 months.   We need as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to A) slow/stop the geometric spread, B) minimize critical cases, C) reduce the potential for continued mutations of the virus.   In reality, "C" is the unspoken reason we should have been focused on speed of vaccination and minimization of virus spread from the beginning.   Virus mutations are scary.

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17 minutes ago, jobarules said:

I read today J&J is only 66% effective against moderate or severe outcomes though.

I think Id rather 95%, no?

Nope.  

It's one shot.

It's 85-100% effective against severe.

It's 70% against the normal strain.

It can store in a refrigerator 

It was badly reported 

Breaking it down, the phase 3 trial of J&J’s one-and-done COVID-19 vaccine showed it was 72% effective in the U.S. in preventing severe to moderate COVID-19, but this fell to the 66% headline figure as its overall effectiveness was worse outside the U.S.: 66% in Latin America and 57% in South Africa, all coming 28 days post-vaccination.

The better news is that it was 85% effective overall in preventing severe disease and showed “(c)omplete protection against COVID-19 related hospitalization and death 

 

I'm fine getting with 30% chance 

Good article

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/j-j-vaccine-effective-against-covid-though-weaker-against-south-n1255400

 

I know it's not the flu but flu shots are what 50-60 effective?  I'm ok with "only" 70% if it's 85% severe and "complete" stop of death :shrug:

 

 

 

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