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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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9 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I can't get a clear message on the timeline for J/J.  Does anyone have a news story or something about the distribution that spellas all this out?.  

Not really any great sources.  There was one vocal board member who said "100 million doses by spring" but they've quieted him down pretty quickly.

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We reached the 1.5 million per day mark in seven-day running average of vaccinations yesterday. While we certainly got off to a slow, chaotic start, the US vaccination campaign is now clearly one of the best in the world.  The new administration vowed to administer one million per day and that occurred just as they were taking office.  They upped their target to 1.5 million per day which has now been reached.  

On the J & J vs. other vaccines, it's different arguments.  We need everybody to get vaccinated to end the pandemic.  That's a group goal.  Getting the shot with the best protection is an individual, self-oriented goal.

Our organization (local government) got the first set of Moderna vaccines delivered yesterday.  I'm on the list for extra doses at the end of the day if they have any.  Meanwhile, they are only taking appointments for those who qualify under current state guidelines, 65+ or with significant health issues.  We are mostly doing retirees still on our health care plan for now.  Without getting an extra end-of-day dose, I'm not likely to get the first shot for a couple of weeks.

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Just keep in mind the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines did not have to contend with the UK/SA/Brazil variants when that 95% figure came out.  J&J was specifically tested in those places, as well as in the US.  The variants knocked down the overall effectiveness.  For all we know Moderna/Pfizer suck eggs against the new variants.  The data on that isn't out.  I'll take the J&J one - no prob.  The biggest thing is even on the variants J&J prevents hospitalization and death.

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

It seems obvious that retail pharmacies should not be the front line distribution network but should act as a complimentary locations to the mass vaccination sites where they can service thousands per day.  Either that or the federal and state government should be putting up $ to pay for staff at the pharmacies to handle the vaccination and organizational duties.

The thing is that there is more than enough profit to justify the extra staff. My employer has had no issue with having a second pharmacist come in or technicians getting massive OT but I’ve already heard stories that the big chains won’t do that and they are just expected to work it into their regular work day.

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I see J&J’s place as a secondary vaccine. High risk people will continue to get Pfizer/Moderna with lower risk individuals getting J&J. The one and done and easier storage conditions make it a good candidate for on-site clinics where a vaccinator comes to a job site and immunizes everyone.

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Just now, gianmarco said:
14 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

This is why

What are you talking about?

Sorry I was high last night and this seemed to make a lot more sense back then.

For what it's worth, @parasaurolophushave had a lot of back-and-forths recently in the political subforum about sources and biases and stuff.  His argument is often that you shouldn't need to trust media sources, as long as they just quote things accurately, etc.  So I decided to show him how something he wrote taken out of context might look bad in a story.  In my smoke-filled mind last night, the line about his wife getting leapfrogged by a smoker sounded super funny.

Anyway, don't do drugs and post in the FFA kids, it doesn't always go well.

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18 hours ago, Doug B said:

Awesome -- better than I've been hoping.

found it: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.com/vaccines-are-made-with-mutations-in-mind/

Quote

However, if a random mutation did render a vaccine useless, the mRNA instructions are incredibly easy to change. This is the beauty of this type of vaccine. It’s like editing a Word document; just tweaking the code a little. And, the FDA wouldn’t need Phase I-III trials again. This is because the code isn’t changed enough to concern safety or efficacy. They would just need to see a study with a few dozen people that showed the new code produced satisfactory amounts of antibodies and protection against the mutated virus.

 

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A few months back we discussed Vitamin D and Zinc in this thread, along with other supplements. I've been taking each daily just in case, along with a good multi-vitamin and occasionally drinking an Emergen-C packet as well. Anyone else taking these supplements or any others to help with their immune system?

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18 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

A few months back we discussed Vitamin D and Zinc in this thread, along with other supplements. I've been taking each daily just in case, along with a good multi-vitamin and occasionally drinking an Emergen-C packet as well. Anyone else taking these supplements or any others to help with their immune system?

Yes, I take daily supplement with vitamins C & D and Zinc. No guarantee it helps, but it is absolutely harmless and so easy it's a no brainer.

I also try to get out in the sunshine shirtless whenever possble, scaring local wildlife and blinding passing pilots.  Nothing like producing your own vitamin D.  I'm in South Louisiana, so this is possible in winter (not every day).

Edited by worrierking
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46 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

CDC Says Double-Masking Offers More Protection Against The Coronavirus

Double-masking seems to be gaining more traction among experts.

See, in that article, several times they also approve of single masks that have double layers of fabric.

That's what's a bit confusing. So far as I can tell, the double-fabric masks that our family friend has been making for us should be A-OK even with the new double-masking guidelines. My wife and daughter, on the other hand, insist that a surgical mask MUST be worn under any cloth mask, regardless of how that cloth mask is constructed.

The material our friend uses to make our double-layer masks is cotton-polyester blend and is a lot like the fabric that chinos or Dockers-type pants are made of. That type of fabric, in two layers. Should be fine, I would think.

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57 minutes ago, 3 hour lunch said:

Disappointing vaccine numbers this week, unless reporting is delayed? 

Mondays and Tuesdays have the lowest totals (at least on Bloomberg's tracker), probably reflecting weekend numbers.  We just went over 1.5 million per day on the 7-day average, which is a new high.  This week's Monday and Tuesday numbers are actually quite a bit higher than last week's.  Also hit our first 2 million dose day last week (2/6).  Overall trend is still good.  

 

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17 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

As long as they dont make it a requirement. I go out with bare minimum approved KN95 and often an N95. Will be annoyed if I have to add another mask. 

Yeah, we have trouble getting people to wear ONE mask, much less a double. I have low hopes that many will wear two. 

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2 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

CDC Says Double-Masking Offers More Protection Against The Coronavirus

Double-masking seems to be gaining more traction among experts.

It is all about tightening the seal.  The surgical masks are loose fitting and the cloth masks don't offer much protection.  But you combine them and you have a multi-layer mask with a better seal.  Apparently 92% effective -- close to an N95??

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2 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

It is all about tightening the seal.  The surgical masks are loose fitting and the cloth masks don't offer much protection.  But you combine them and you have a multi-layer mask with a better seal.  Apparently 92% effective -- close to an N95??

My favorite was the study that showed wearing pantyhose over a surgical mask was the most effective a while back. Like straight up movie 7-11 robbery style. 

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1 hour ago, humpback said:

No urgency here or anything, take your time folks.

It's actually almost the same time frame as the other vaccines.  20ish days for independent analysis of the data 

 

It took 21 days from the time Pfizer and BioNTech filed for authorization for the vaccine to get the green light from the FDA. Agency experts worked in shifts, on nights and weekends, to crank through the data as thoroughly and quickly as possible, Hahn told The Wall Street Journal in December.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

As long as they dont make it a requirement. I go out with bare minimum approved KN95 and often an N95. Will be annoyed if I have to add another mask. 

My wife is on the double mask kick even after I explained to here we don't have plain cloth masks

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5 minutes ago, belljr said:

It's actually almost the same time frame as the other vaccines.  20ish days for independent analysis of the data 

 

It took 21 days from the time Pfizer and BioNTech filed for authorization for the vaccine to get the green light from the FDA. Agency experts worked in shifts, on nights and weekends, to crank through the data as thoroughly and quickly as possible, Hahn told The Wall Street Journal in December.

I know, it was too long then as well. It was a forgone conclusion that they would pass, it shouldn't take so long to get approval.

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56 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
2 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

CDC Says Double-Masking Offers More Protection Against The Coronavirus

Double-masking seems to be gaining more traction among experts.

As long as they dont make it a requirement. I go out with bare minimum approved KN95 and often an N95. Will be annoyed if I have to add another mask. 

The article says that the CDC's revised guidance is specific about excepting KN95/N95 masks (and equivalent). Those should be worn alone.

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16 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

A few months back we discussed Vitamin D and Zinc in this thread, along with other supplements. I've been taking each daily just in case, along with a good multi-vitamin and occasionally drinking an Emergen-C packet as well. Anyone else taking these supplements or any others to help with their immune system?

I have been taking all daily. Haven't had Covid. No idea if related but likely not. Easy to take just in case though. 

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Got Moderna jab 2 yesterday at 3pm. Keeping a running "diary" of sorts for kicks... here it is: 

 

3PM:
2ND Moderna Injection in left arm

More pain (4/10) than 1st shot (1/10) during injection. Sharp pain with burn. Went away almost immediately after. 

 

3HR drive home:
No symptoms at all. 0/10 arm pain. 

 

6PM:
Arrived home. Took 1000mg Tylenol. Cooked dinner. No symptoms. 0/10 arm pain. 

 

7:15pm:
no symptoms. Not even arm pain 

 

9:30pm:
no symptoms. Took 3mg melatonin. 

 

10:30pm:
no symptoms (maybe tiny bit disoriented but that's likely melatonin/being tired). Took 1000mg Tylenol + 35mg Doxylamine Succinate. 

 

11:00pm:
bedtime. Did I maybe feel a tiny bit of nausea as I was drifting off or was it just in my head? 

 

12:30am:
woke briefly. No symptoms other than slight arm pain (2/10). Rolled over and slept on arm to see if I could. No problem. 

 

2:30am: 
woke briefly. No symptoms other than 2/10 arm pain. 

 

5:30: 
woke to use restroom (drank a lot of water). Still very mild 2/10 arm pain. Took 1000mg Tylenol and going back to bed. 

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19 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

A few months back we discussed Vitamin D and Zinc in this thread, along with other supplements. I've been taking each daily just in case, along with a good multi-vitamin and occasionally drinking an Emergen-C packet as well. Anyone else taking these supplements or any others to help with their immune system?

Yea still taking D & C along with my multi-vitamin. Why not other than added expense? I'm all about attacking this through health as much as possible.

19 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

CDC Says Double-Masking Offers More Protection Against The Coronavirus

Double-masking seems to be gaining more traction among experts.

I get it, just getting tired of the constant moving of the goalposts. Double masks work better than single masks, what about triple masks? Surely that will be 3 times as much protection!!!

How about you wear the ####### mask over your mouth and nose, tight, as they are supposed to be worn? So tired of the chinstrap crowd. I've been wearing a surgical mask from day one, tight around my face and nose. Have tested it with a candle (trying to blow it out) so I feel like I'm good. It's not that hard to fit a mask properly.

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Can someone explain the new CDC guidance that those who are vaccinated do not need to quarantine after exposure so long as they meet certain timing metrics? Even in the guidance, CDC acknowledges transmissibility by those vaccinated remains "uncertain." CDC goes on to say "The CDC said quarantine recommendations for vaccinated people will be updated when more data are available, or when more vaccines have been authorized."

Intuitively, guidance like this would follow the science and 'no need to quarantine' would suggest they are not any more a risk to transmit than anyone else who has unknown exposure?  

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6 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Yea still taking D & C along with my multi-vitamin. Why not other than added expense? I'm all about attacking this through health as much as possible.

I get it, just getting tired of the constant moving of the goalposts. Double masks work better than single masks, what about triple masks? Surely that will be 3 times as much protection!!!

How about you wear the ####### mask over your mouth and nose, tight, as they are supposed to be worn? So tired of the chinstrap crowd. I've been wearing a surgical mask from day one, tight around my face and nose. Have tested it with a candle (trying to blow it out) so I feel like I'm good. It's not that hard to fit a mask properly.

"New CDC study shows that 5 masks offer more protection against COVID-19!"

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9 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I get it, just getting tired of the constant moving of the goalposts. Double masks work better than single masks, what about triple masks? Surely that will be 3 times as much protection!!!

Same here. I've been taking the pandemic 100% seriously ... but this sudden call for double-masking just feels like something that's trendy, not grounded in epidemiological statistics.

I know the CDC has now updated their guidance regarding double-masking. But we know know that some folks in charge of health guidance like to kind of ... I don't know how to phrase it ... couch their guidance in over-reaching foolproof terms? The idea is to get even people who are looking to skirt the rules (e.g. people who were wearing stretched-out single-layer sheer gaiters last summer and calling that good) to reach sufficient compliance despite themselves.

Anyway, my family last night went to visit my sister-in-laws family in their home. They're a lot looser with COVID protocols than we are, so we all double masked. My wife and two kids did the surgical mask under a double-layer heavy cloth mask (think chino-pants material, doubled) while I wore two double-layer heavy cloth masks. Double-masking seems to generally take care of the mask-gaps issue that seems common with many surgical masks and ill-fitting cloth masks -- so in that sense, wearing a second mask to "tighten things up" can be a good thing. On the other hand, a well-fitted double-layer mask should be A-OK by itself (per the new CDC guidelines) ... but many people are interpreting "double-masking" as "always wearing two masks no matter how they're made or how they fit".

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26 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

"New CDC study shows that 5 masks offer more protection against COVID-19!"

Wait until they recommend cotton balls in the nostrils or just cutting the damn thing off.

We might also see a run on clothespins

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5 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Double-masking seems to generally take care of the mask-gaps issue that seems common with many surgical masks and ill-fitting cloth masks -- so in that sense, wearing a second mask to "tighten things up" can be a good thing. On the other hand, a well-fitted double-layer mask should be A-OK by itself (per the new CDC guidelines) ... but many people are interpreting "double-masking" as "always wearing two masks no matter how they're made or how they fit".

I honestly haven't been paying too much attention to the double mask movement, but this is what annoys me about what I have seen.  If the problem is that people are wearing crappy masks in a crappy fashion, then fix that problem rather than telling people to double up.

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6 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

I honestly haven't been paying too much attention to the double mask movement, but this is what annoys me about what I have seen.  If the problem is that people are wearing crappy masks in a crappy fashion, then fix that problem rather than telling people to double up.

:goodposting:

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1 minute ago, Dr_Zaius said:

I honestly haven't been paying too much attention to the double mask movement, but this is what annoys me about what I have seen.  If the problem is that people are wearing crappy masks in a crappy fashion, then fix that problem rather than telling people to double up.

Right on. Here's the actual title of the CDC's new guidance:

Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure, 2021

After reading through the specifics of the guidance ... the "maximizing fit" part is the crucial bit. Not "wearing two masks". Double-masking is presented as simply one of several means to an end. Other recommended fit-improvements include:

  • Tying the loops of surgical masks a certain way to reduce air gaps (see picture C here), then tucking in any loose fabric to create an even better seal. This can also be done with many types of cloth masks. Note that this is still wearing a single mask, just with care taken to close in the common side gaps.
  • Wearing a plastic mask fitter over your surgical or cloth mask.
  • Wearing a neck gaiter -- even a thin single-layer nylon one is sufficient -- over a surgical or cloth mask.



 

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27 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Same here. I've been taking the pandemic 100% seriously ... but this sudden call for double-masking just feels like something that's trendy, not grounded in epidemiological statistics.

I know the CDC has now updated their guidance regarding double-masking. But we know know that some folks in charge of health guidance like to kind of ... I don't know how to phrase it ... couch their guidance in over-reaching foolproof terms? The idea is to get even people who are looking to skirt the rules (e.g. people who were wearing stretched-out single-layer sheer gaiters last summer and calling that good) to reach sufficient compliance despite themselves.

Anyway, my family last night went to visit my sister-in-laws family in their home. They're a lot looser with COVID protocols than we are, so we all double masked. My wife and two kids did the surgical mask under a double-layer heavy cloth mask (think chino-pants material, doubled) while I wore two double-layer heavy cloth masks. Double-masking seems to generally take care of the mask-gaps issue that seems common with many surgical masks and ill-fitting cloth masks -- so in that sense, wearing a second mask to "tighten things up" can be a good thing. On the other hand, a well-fitted double-layer mask should be A-OK by itself (per the new CDC guidelines) ... but many people are interpreting "double-masking" as "always wearing two masks no matter how they're made or how they fit".

Wait, are you saying your family wore double mask while inside visiting your in laws?  We wear a mask everywhere in public but while at home or visiting family we don't wear a mask.

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4 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

Wait, are you saying your family wore double mask while inside visiting your in laws?  We wear a mask everywhere in public but while at home or visiting family we don't wear a mask.

Sister-in-law's house, but yes -- no non-household family is in our bubble. 

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1 hour ago, Gilroy34 said:

Wait, are you saying your family wore double mask while inside visiting your in laws?  We wear a mask everywhere in public but while at home or visiting family we don't wear a mask.

 

5 minutes ago, belljr said:

We wore masks at my sister's house.

She also has a heart condition so we are extra careful

We don't wear masks when we visit family or friends but we also know there are risks involved. Everyone is comfortable with those risks.

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1 hour ago, Gilroy34 said:

Wait, are you saying your family wore double mask while inside visiting your in laws?  We wear a mask everywhere in public but while at home or visiting family we don't wear a mask.

A family member is how I caught covid and is how much of the spread happens. You let your guard down when you feel you can trust someone.

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My wife's ER and ICU team has been using double masks since the beginning.  It was done to save N95s for reuse.  N95 on the inside, surgical mask on the outside.    

She never got sick, and no one at her work has gotten covid at work.  The few who got it, got it from a wedding, funeral, family gathering etc. where no one was wearing masks.  Always seemed obvious to me that masks work and the problem is there are too many times people don't wear masks.  Double masking at the Home Depot doesn't really help if you go maskless during a Super Bowl party.

Its weird to me that people are willing to wear a mask at the store - protecting strangers and yourself, but not in situations that would protect loved ones.  That seems like a bigger deal than doubling up, even if doubling up helps too.

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28 minutes ago, Dezbelief said:
1 hour ago, Gilroy34 said:

Wait, are you saying your family wore double mask while inside visiting your in laws?  We wear a mask everywhere in public but while at home or visiting family we don't wear a mask.

A family member is how I caught covid and is how much of the spread happens. You let your guard down when you feel you can trust someone.

We've had one other household in our "safe" bubble: one family-friends household has three Type-1 diabetics living under one roof, all obese (two parents and one 12-year-old). In addition, the dad is a heart patient that's survived two aortic dissections. They have been very personally invested in avoiding COVID -- with one recent exception (see below).

We visited them in their home last summer & fall. We wore masks in their house, but removed them to eat & drink. We kept socially-distanced both indoors and outside (in their backyard & pool area).

After Christmas break, the "safe" household sent their kids back to in-person school (around here, families can choose in-person or virtual). Like many things, a calculated risk and a decision that they felt was best for that family. But it changes our calculus re: visiting their house -- we won't be able to visit with them indoors again until we've all been vaccinated.

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25 minutes ago, Willy said:

Its weird to me that people are willing to wear a mask at the store - protecting strangers and yourself, but not in situations that would protect loved ones.  That seems like a bigger deal than doubling up, even if doubling up helps too.

I actually think it's generally much safer to visit a big-box store (esp the really spacious ones like Home Depot, Best, Buy, WalMart, etc.) unmasked than it is to visit family/friends' home unmasked. For one thing, I've found it a lot easier and less weird/awkward to maintain sufficient personal space in a big-box store (assuming no mad-rush Black-Friday-type crowds).

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54 minutes ago, jobarules said:

We don't wear masks when we visit family or friends but we also know there are risks involved. Everyone is comfortable with those risks.

Not accusing, just curious:

a) Has anyone kind of dropped out of your friends/family circle temporarily due to the pandemic? If so, are their personal risk calculations understood, or kind of secretly disrespected (though no one would make an issue of it)?

b) Have you seen or noticed anything that made you suspect someone in your family/friend group would have been more comfortable masked, distanced, or even absent ... but that they felt social pressure to be present at some event or another? Or does it seem clear that any family/friends with doubts have, indeed, followed through on their doubts and have remained away or masked?

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Not accusing, just curious:

a) Has anyone kind of dropped out of your friends/family circle temporarily due to the pandemic? If so, are their personal risk calculations understood, or kind of secretly disrespected (though no one would make an issue of it)?

No, I am being 100% honest here that every single family member and friend feels EXACTLY the same way we do. Most think the pandemic is overhyped BS and are justaflu people.  I know its not the flu but I do think some of the panic is way overhyped (doubling up on masks, closing air intake vents, wiping down groceries, baking mail, keeping children isolated for months on end). I find those things ridiculous.

b) Have you seen or noticed anything that made you suspect someone in your family/friend group would have been more comfortable masked, distanced, or even absent ... but that they felt social pressure to be present at some event or another? Or does it seem clear that any family/friends with doubts have, indeed, followed through on their doubts and have remained away or masked?

No

In the summer, we kept all gatherings to outdoors. Since then we have not had any indoor gatherings except small ones (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, even went to AC and hung out in the rooms and drank without masks because drink service shut down after 10pm). These gatherings were generally limited to 10 people. Now keep in mind, that we were invited to an indoor wedding in October with around 100 guests that I was hesitant to goto. We ended up canceling because my wife tested positive for COVID right before.

We are all in our 40s and generally good health. Keep in mind, my wife did catch COVID at Thanksgiving from her brother's fiancee. Nobody else caught it. We followed CDC protocols and quarantined for 10 days. Everyone was fine. 

Living in isolation, masked up for a year plus is no way to live. We are all willing to deal with the risks. 

I am not saying that we are throwing caution to the wind either. We wear masks in stores 100% of the time and avoid large indoor gatherings. But we are trying to live our lives the best we can too. 

Also, everyone I know refuse to get the vaccine except for me, my father, and my teacher SIL.

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1 hour ago, jobarules said:

I know its not the flu but I do think some of the panic is way overhyped (doubling up on masks, closing air intake vents, wiping down groceries, baking mail, keeping children isolated for months on end). I find those things ridiculous.

The closing of intake vents is legit -- it's a way to automatically maintain ongoing exchange of outdoor air for inside air in an air-conditioned space. In some homes and buildings, the HVAC system itself can be adjusted to let in some outdoor air and take away indoor air as it runs -- otherwise, you gotta open a window and tape up a vent.

FWIW, hospitals that have converted regular patient rooms to COVID ICUs have jury-rigged the rooms with outside venting and air scrubbers, basically accomplishing the same thing. Otherwise, COVID-laden aerosols escape the patients' rooms and permeate the hallways.

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On 2/10/2021 at 2:01 PM, Grace Under Pressure said:

A few months back we discussed Vitamin D and Zinc in this thread, along with other supplements. I've been taking each daily just in case, along with a good multi-vitamin and occasionally drinking an Emergen-C packet as well. Anyone else taking these supplements or any others to help with their immune system?

I started taking C, D and zinc after testing positive for Covid in December.   I have been vitamin D deficient for years but never keep up with the pills.   Have wondered if my vitamin D deficiency made more susceptible to Covid.  Like most, I know a lot of people that have had or have Covid and not sure of their vitamin D status. 

On another note, my brother and best friend have it now but have very mild cases, fortunately.   Both have symptoms resembling that of colds, but my bro did lose his sense of taste and smell.   Be nice if cases head towards the mild side for everyone.

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4 hours ago, BigJim® said:

Can someone explain the new CDC guidance that those who are vaccinated do not need to quarantine after exposure so long as they meet certain timing metrics? Even in the guidance, CDC acknowledges transmissibility by those vaccinated remains "uncertain." CDC goes on to say "The CDC said quarantine recommendations for vaccinated people will be updated when more data are available, or when more vaccines have been authorized."

Intuitively, guidance like this would follow the science and 'no need to quarantine' would suggest they are not any more a risk to transmit than anyone else who has unknown exposure?  

I'm curious about this as well.  I know someone who got their second shot yesterday, and he says he was told by the doctor that if he did get the virus, he would not need to quarantine.  Makes no sense to me.  

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