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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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7 minutes ago, jobarules said:

I believe nurses and doctors are required to get flu shots in several hospitals and kids are required to be up to date on their vaccines to goto school. You act like this doesn't happen now.

Kids aren't required to obtain flu shots.

Doctors and nurses are a different story. But we weren't talking about prohibiting this guy from working in a specific field, we were talking about prohibiting him from moving through society at large. Big difference.

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10 minutes ago, jobarules said:

I believe nurses and doctors are required to get flu shots in several hospitals and kids are required to be up to date on their vaccines to goto school. You act like this doesn't happen now.

This is a good point, although there is an argument to be made that there should be a distinction between approved vaccines and vaccines that are under an Emergency Use Authorization.

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4 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

This is a good point, although there is an argument to be made that there should be a distinction between approved vaccines and vaccines that are under an Emergency Use Authorization.

Good point. Kind of what I was getting at when comparing to flu vaccinations. People have much more reason to avoid a Covid shot than a flu shot. And the fact that he already had Covid makes this even more reasonable.

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44 minutes ago, jobarules said:

I don't think we should be using positivity rates anymore to determine of cases are increasing. As more people are vaccinated, that means less asymptomatic people will need to be tested. The denominator will only decrease.

Hospitalizations are the telling metric, IMO, although I also look at % positive and fatalities. NY Data:

NY Hospitalizations

Syracuse.com Tracker 

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1 hour ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Hospitalizations are the telling metric, IMO, although I also look at % positive and fatalities. NY Data:

NY Hospitalizations

Syracuse.com Tracker 

Any good sites you can reco for nationwide hospitalizations?  The two I was using are no longer updating. 

I definitely believe they are by far and away the best metric. 

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3 hours ago, Battersbox said:

Kids aren't required to obtain flu shots.

Doctors and nurses are a different story. But we weren't talking about prohibiting this guy from working in a specific field, we were talking about prohibiting him from moving through society at large. Big difference.

If he has a true medical reason like my sister (currently she can't get it until her heart doctor clears her) than I think they should fall in the same category as vaccinated ... (i.e.  you have proof of either)  - just spitballing

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So my friend’s dad has leukemia. He was fully vaccinated two months or so ago.  He has zero antibodies. His doctor said that this has been the case for all of his leukemia patients to date. 
 

this is why everyone who can get a vaccine needs to. 

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11 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

This virus, masks, and vaccines somehow being politicized is the most dangerous thing that’s happened in a long time. Did we have these issues to this degree for the spanish flu, small pox, or polio???

Great question (again) for Tanner

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Here's a write-up that some might find helpful at this time with vaccinations only available to some, based on current recommendations:

You can search for "Dear Pandemic" on FB to find this:


 

Quote

 

Q: I’m fully vaccinated, but my kids are not. What does the new United States CDC guidance for fully vaccinated people say about our situation? I am so confused.

A: This question is on many minds. If you're confused about this, you're not alone! The CDC guidance allows us to do away with wearing masks and physical distancing if everyone at your upcoming private get-together is either fully vaccinated OR ALL of these: unvaccinated, not high-risk for severe COVID-19, doesn't live with anyone who is at high risk for severe COVID-19 outcomes; AND all the unvaccinated people already live together. At this point, just about all children are NOT fully vaccinated for COVID-19, and yes children count as we try to navigate the new CDC guidance for vaccinated people.


For families with a mix of fully vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children, this means the guidelines have to be applied differently for adults flying solo and adults with their kids along. If your kids (and everyone else in your household who is also unvaccinated) are at low risk for severe COVID-19 outcomes, you and the kids can visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors, without masks.

But, if there will be other unvaccinated people there who don’t live with you--including other kids!--you still need to use your SMARTS:
Space: Keep your distance from other people.
Masks: Keep your nose + mouth covered with a mask that fits well.
Air: Keep it fresh.
Restrict: Keep your circle small.
Time: Keep your interactions brief.
Shots: Get your vaccine when it’s your turn!

Yes, this is annoying, confusing, and awkward. It’s a weird time in the pandemic. Not to mention, there's some misinformation flying around (still) about the extent to which kids are "immune" to COVID-19.

Let’s go through some examples to illustrate how to apply this guidance.

Example 1: Carly and Miguel have two kids, and the kids are both low-risk for severe COVID-19 outcomes. Carly and Miguel are fully vaccinated, and the kids are not. They want to take the kids to see their grandmother-- who is also fully vaccinated. This is OK! The unvaccinated people from a single household will be visiting with a single fully vaccinated person. All the unvaccinated people, and the people they live with, are either low-risk or fully vaccinated. The unvaccinated people all come from one household.

Example 2: Amy is fully vaccinated. Her three kids are not. They’re low-risk, and no one else in her home is high-risk for COVID-19 outcomes. Tonight, Amy is going over to some friends’ house and leaving the kids at home with her partner. The gathering will be a group of 5 women--all of them are fully vaccinated. Yes! Amy is getting together with a group of people who are ALL fully vaccinated. She is not taking her unvaccinated kids along with her. There will be NO unvaccinated people there. CDC says they can safely gather indoors without masks.

Example 3: Tasha and Mike are fully vaccinated. They also have unvaccinated kids at home. Tasha’s unvaccinated dad is coming over. SMART precautions are necessary here because we have unvaccinated people from two different households together in the same space--the kids, and Tasha’s dad. They could pass COVID-19 between them. Note: Tasha and Mike CAN go visit her dad and relax the SMART guidance because Tasha and Mike are fully vaccinated. They just can't take the kids along without keeping their masks on.

Example 4: A group of families want to plan their summer vacation together. The adults will all be fully vaccinated. The kids will not be. They’re planning to rent a big lake house for a week. SMART precautions or a strict quarantine for the kids is necessary before the kids--unvaccinated people across several households--can safely be indoors without masks together.

Example 5: Gar is 8 years old. His parents are divorced and share custody. He spends half his week living with his Dad and stepmom, and half his week with his Mom, stepdad, and three stepsisters. The four-parent team here has a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated status, but no one in either household is at high-risk for severe COVID-19. Gar will be visiting his fully vaccinated grandparents for a week over Spring Break. Gar is an unvaccinated person, but since he is just one unvaccinated person from a single (albeit complex) household, he can visit his two fully vaccinated grandparents without having to wear masks and maintain physical distancing.

Example 6: Issy is unvaccinated. She lives with her child who has conditions that put him in a high-risk group for COVID-19 outcomes; he's not vaccinated either. Issy would like to go visit her fully vaccinated father and mother. Issy should take SMART precautions, whether her son accompanies her on this visit or not. She is an unvaccinated person who lives with someone who is at high risk for severe COVID-19.

Example 7: Jack and Marsha are both fully vaccinated. They want to have a family dinner with their two adult sons and their two daughters-in-law, and their young kids. In all, there will be 6 adults, all fully vaccinated, and 4 kids from 2 different households, unvaccinated. SMART precautions are necessary here because we have unvaccinated people from two different households together in the same space--the kids.

Example 8: Mary and Shana each have 3 year old kids. Mary and Shana are fully vaccinated. They would like to have the kids meet up for a playdate. SMART precautions are necessary! The unvaccinated kids from two households are two unvaccinated people!

Example 9: Ms. Jones is an elementary school teacher. She’s fully vaccinated. Do the new CDC guidelines mean she doesn’t have to wear a mask in her classroom? No. School classrooms are considered a public space, and both Ms. Jones and her students should continue wearing masks and taking other precautions in the classroom and other public spaces.

Example 10: Billie has recently had a baby and would like her mom to come over to help out. Billie is fully vaccinated; Billie’s partner is fully vaccinated; Billie’s mom is fully vaccinated; obviously the newborn is not. Because the only unvaccinated person here is the newborn, CDC says this is OK to do, indoors, without masks.

Final notes: we expect the guidance to continue evolving as we progress through the messy months ahead. Don't spend a lot of energy trying to understand what this means for Fall back-to-school, because by then we'll probably have new guidance. And, the guidance from the CDC is guidance, not a law. If you would prefer to continue exercising more caution, you can do that.

Read another example of how the CDC guidance and our previous post about it were used by our friend at SciMoms to decide how to plan Passover with family. https://scimoms.com/hug-grandparents-after-covid.../

The CDC guidance is here: https://www.cdc.gov/.../fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

Our previous post about the CDC guidance is here: https://dearpandemic.org/new-cdc-guidelines-on-fully.../

And the latest edition of the SMART guidelines can be found here: https://dearpandemic.org/protecting-against-new-covid.../
 

CDC

Mommy, PhD

#thosenerdygirls #DearPandemic #nerdygirlnation #whowillyouhugfirst #semidemic

File under: staying safe, vaccines

 

 

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20 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I think a lot of people (including me) have assumed that some of the vaccine hesitancy was soft, and that people would change their minds when they see millions of other Americans getting vaccinated without issue.  Doesn't seem like that's happened yet.

That's not going to happen IMO....when there's a narrative floating around that the first shot is a primer for the second that includes a tracking device, it should be rather clear that a majority of minds are made up one way or the other and it generally falls along the lines of those rooted in reality and those not.  

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18 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Any good sites you can reco for nationwide hospitalizations?  The two I was using are no longer updating. 

I definitely believe they are by far and away the best metric. 

Interestingly the Covid-19 Tracking project and Bloomberg are both not tracking nationwide hospitalizations anymore, those were the two I was checking for national stats. The CDC has a site, but I find the information lacking as it is 1. weekly and 2. hasn't been updated in almost 2 weeks.

CDC Hospitalizations

 

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1 minute ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Interestingly the Covid-19 Tracking project and Bloomberg are both not tracking nationwide hospitalizations anymore, those were the two I was checking for national stats. The CDC has a site, but I find the information lacking as it is 1. weekly and 2. hasn't been updated in almost 2 weeks.

CDC Hospitalizations

 

Even the carlson U of M site is lagging now too. I really liked their site because you could lay graphs on top of each other by per capita metrics state to state. They were asking for more funding so hopefully they get it. 

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I think if the tracking projects are rolling up their hospitalization capacity tracking, then it's likely that the need for that ifo is not as acute as it once was.  As was said, it seems unlikely that the health care / hospital systems will be overloaded due to COVID.  That risk seems to have passed.

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15 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So my friend’s dad has leukemia. He was fully vaccinated two months or so ago.  He has zero antibodies. His doctor said that this has been the case for all of his leukemia patients to date. 
 

this is why everyone who can get a vaccine needs to. 

:goodposting:

The vaccines are not 100% effective.  They are awesome, way beyond our expectations in effectiveness, but not 100%.  They may not work well in folks with immune system issues - like leukemia and others.  They are not sterilizing either.  Some people are going to fall into that 5% or worse for the non-moderna/pfizer vaccines.  

Also, some people flat out cannot get the vaccines due to allergies or other reasons.  It would be awesome if most who can get the vaccine will get it to help protect those who can't.  

As far as your friend's dad, I have read similar regarding the antibodies for leukemia patients.  Hopefully his B-Cells and T-cells are prepared for the virus even though the antibodies never showed up.  They don't test B and T cell response so it's possible he has a level of immunity regardless of the antibodies.  That's the hope.  The Mayo Clinic is doing studies with leukemia patients who got the vaccine to verify.  

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Did some digging and found the raw vaccination data by state:

https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/blob/master/public/data/vaccinations/us_state_vaccinations.csv

Interestingly, my state is very close to the bottom for folks fully vaccinated but from just a casual glance we seem to be doing "ok" with getting the first shot to folks.  I'm not sure if that's being tracked by any of these dashboards anywhere but for example, Virginia shows 14.45% fully vaccinated to Georgia's 11.04% but if we look at total people who have gotten at least one vaccine, Georgia doesn't look so bad but I'm struggling doing the math with some missing numbers.  Sounds like we've had ~20% get at least one shot.

I think in another month we will have a clearer picture of where things stand with states.  I still feel we will be in the bottom 10 in vaccination rate but who knows - our largest counties in the metro area are the ones lagging behind and maybe they just don't have the logistics right currently.

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8 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

our largest counties in the metro area are the ones lagging behind and maybe they just don't have the logistics right currently.

Or maybe they weren't given the proper per capita doses from the get-go.  If that's the case, that's structural racism.

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15 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Did some digging and found the raw vaccination data by state:

https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/blob/master/public/data/vaccinations/us_state_vaccinations.csv

Interestingly, my state is very close to the bottom for folks fully vaccinated but from just a casual glance we seem to be doing "ok" with getting the first shot to folks.  I'm not sure if that's being tracked by any of these dashboards anywhere but for example, Virginia shows 14.45% fully vaccinated to Georgia's 11.04% but if we look at total people who have gotten at least one vaccine, Georgia doesn't look so bad but I'm struggling doing the math with some missing numbers.  Sounds like we've had ~20% get at least one shot.

I think in another month we will have a clearer picture of where things stand with states.  I still feel we will be in the bottom 10 in vaccination rate but who knows - our largest counties in the metro area are the ones lagging behind and maybe they just don't have the logistics right currently.

I am hoping we can break 50%.

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48 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I think if the tracking projects are rolling up their hospitalization capacity tracking, then it's likely that the need for that ifo is not as acute as it once was.  As was said, it seems unlikely that the health care / hospital systems will be overloaded due to COVID.  That risk seems to have passed.

In Louisiana, there are only about 400 patients statewide hospitalized for COVID right now. Several New Orleans area hospitals are now reporting either no COVID patients or very low numbers.

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27 minutes ago, Willy said:

:goodposting:

The vaccines are not 100% effective.  They are awesome, way beyond our expectations in effectiveness, but not 100%.  They may not work well in folks with immune system issues - like leukemia and others.  They are not sterilizing either.  Some people are going to fall into that 5% or worse for the non-moderna/pfizer vaccines.  

Also, some people flat out cannot get the vaccines due to allergies or other reasons.  It would be awesome if most who can get the vaccine will get it to help protect those who can't.  

As far as your friend's dad, I have read similar regarding the antibodies for leukemia patients.  Hopefully his B-Cells and T-cells are prepared for the virus even though the antibodies never showed up.  They don't test B and T cell response so it's possible he has a level of immunity regardless of the antibodies.  That's the hope.  The Mayo Clinic is doing studies with leukemia patients who got the vaccine to verify.  

Do you have an article regarding this and/or the mayo clinic study?  My friend's dad is really depressed over this and sending the article will give him some hope.

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I read some reports of "long-hauler" COVID where the brain fog and other ailments persist for months or longer.  I wonder what % of non-hospitalized COVID patients are long haulers.

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25 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Or maybe they weren't given the proper per capita doses from the get-go.  If that's the case, that's structural racism.

I live in Chester County, PA.  One of the largest and wealthiest counties in the state.  The distribution of the vaccine here has lagged SIGNIFICANTLY behind other counties in the state.  The below is from an email I received on Friday from the Chester County Health Department:

Quote

 

Much has been said in the media over the past few weeks about the proportionately lower amount of COVID-19 vaccine being sent to Chester County and our neighboring suburban Philadelphia counties from the PA Department of Health.  Our County Commissioners, along with county administrators and our State elected officials have been advocating for more vaccine to come to Chester County and the region, and to come to our Health Department, where capacity to vaccinate upwards of 33,000 people a week is already in place.
 
We will eventually get to a place where vaccine supply will meet vaccine demand. And while it is good public health practice to book vaccine appointments that match known vaccine supply, we will follow the Governor’s call to give everyone in Phase 1A who wants the vaccine, a date for an appointment, by the end of March.  That means that, by March 31, everyone will be given an appointment date for a vaccine.  It does not mean that everyone in Phase 1A will be given the vaccine by March 31, as our vaccine supply from the State will not permit this.

 

The numbers

Over the past week, Chester County, in total, received 11,910  doses of vaccine from the State. Of that number, 9,340 were sent to the Chester County Health Department.  This is made up of 7,000 Moderna first and second doses and 2,340 Pfizer first doses. 

We continue to administer the COVID-19 vaccine to individuals in Phase 1A and currently to those in 1A who registered with the Chester County Health Department on or before January 20th.

IN TOTAL Chester County, 55,272 people have received a 1st dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, and 57,469 people have received 2nd doses by ALL vaccine providers in Chester County, including hospitals and pharmacies.  (Source: PA Department of Health 3/19/21)

Of the total number above, 30,519 people have received first doses of the vaccine from the Chester County Health Department, and 18,010 people have received their second dose from the Chester County Health Department. 

 

I am really lucky that I got the Rite-Aid link when I did, and was able to get both doses as of Friday.  The county is still only vaccinating people who registered in JANUARY.

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20 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

One of the largest and wealthiest counties in the state.  The distribution of the vaccine here has lagged SIGNIFICANTLY behind other counties in the state.

The question is WHY?  Was there an explicit decision made on equity or did some other factors play into the distribution on a county by county level?

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6 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

The question is WHY?  Was there an explicit decision made on equity or did some other factors play into the distribution on a county by county level?

Not sure the demographics are of the area the other poster was referring to, but I just wanted to point out that the suburbs of Philadelphia are having issues as well, and they most certainly are not related to race -- not that diverse in my county.  

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7 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Not sure the demographics are of the area the other poster was referring to, but I just wanted to point out that the suburbs of Philadelphia are having issues as well, and they most certainly are not related to race -- not that diverse in my county.  

Maybe it's a "metro area" vs. rural split?  The metro area would include both urban core and suburban suroundings.

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Just now, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

If single? Absolutely would go.

As a married man? My wife would consider that scenario insta-death from COVID, and wouldn't allow me to go without giving me A TON of schmidt for weeks.

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5 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

 

I thought I would be in this scenario in a few weeks for MLS returning.  Turns out I will be fully vaccinated before our first game so not exactly the same.  Having said that - I was still debating going with the first shot and was going to depend on the protocols at the stadium (temp checks, required masks, distancing, etc.).  I was leaning towards waiting (under the assumption it would make me miss 1-2 games at most).  But I don't see it as super risky.  I just thought I might as well wait - I feel like I've been locked up for a year, what's 1-2 more weeks?

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5 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

 

I'd like to find out more about what the arenas are doing re:ventilation.

But would I go, having had one shot and the person I am going with had one shot? I would.

It seems easy enough to stay apart from people. My only hang-up at all would be that it is indoors, thus the question on ventilation. 

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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Do you have an article regarding this and/or the mayo clinic study?  My friend's dad is really depressed over this and sending the article will give him some hope.

 

I found some info.  Unfortunately, I think the answer is nobody knows until those trials have run their course, but some info hints that vaccines are not useless for blood cancer patients even when the antibodies don't show up.  My own optimism comes from how all the vaccines seem to prevent hospitalization and death, we know some of those folks testing the vaccine had HIV (J&J specifically in South Africa) and other immune compromised situations as well.

Info on the clinical trial:

https://cllsociety.org/2021/02/trials-studying-the-safety-and-immune-response-of-chronic-lymphocytic-leukemia-cll-patients-receiving-the-covid-19-vaccines/

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04748185

 

This one addresses the T Cells specifically:

https://www.leukaemiacare.org.uk/support-and-information/latest-from-leukaemia-care/blog/covid-vaccine-faqs/

Quote

You may have seen media reports about some early research into the response of some cancer patients to the Pfizer vaccine. One piece of unpublished research suggested that cancer patients had a reduced amount of antibodies after the first doses compared to the non-cancer patients; blood cancer patients had the worst antibody responses of all. However, antibodies are not the only thing that is important. When you have a vaccine, you also make a response using your T cells; this T cell response is thought to be more important for immunity to viruses. Blood cancer patients did show a good T cell response, which was less than non-cancer patients but much higher than their antibody response. Therefore, we need to conduct further research to see if this T cell response is enough to prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death.

 

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4 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

 

Tonight?  No.  I just got my first shot two Thursdays ago and I don't feel confident enough in my immunity to attend an event like this.  That's just me and my personal risk tolerance.  No judgement to anybody who decides different.

A few weeks from now?  Sure, definitely.  

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5 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

 

Does he/she/tree have N95 masks? How many weeks from first dose? 

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5 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Asking for a friend, but am curious on opinions here - would you go to an NBA game tonight, assuming mandatory masks and limited seating? Also assume you and the person you're sitting with are 50% vaccinated.

 

I went to the movies last weekend. Wore a mask, am fully vaccinated. I feel like I’ve done everything possible, it’s now time to get on with life. 

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My wife and I both got dose 1 of Moderna today. My arm was a little sore for a few minutes and that’s it. Looking forward to being fully vaccinated but still feel better. Anecdotally, the guy at the front of Walgreens said they’ve been really busy every day. They have a 30 page waitlist and have been doing more people than appointments daily to make sure they use everything they have.

There may be anti vaxxers out there but it seems like most people want to get it.

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1 hour ago, mrip541 said:

Thank you. I cant really view that graph without a subscription.. Then I see articles like this and I just don't understand the disparity in info.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/covid-19-cases-plateaued-york-city-experts-find/story%3fid=76472072#scso=_msBbYOb6EOOl1QHl3LD4Cw2580:0

Edit: I was able to get into the graph and I think there's something wrong with their data. If you hover over March 21 it shows 0 total cases.

Edited by jobarules
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17 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Its funny. I saw that and laughed. And of course in the video they are silly because they were double masking with a kn95 which is bad because it mucks up the kn95 seal and they are outside.

That being said a nose piece in a restaurant would likely lower risk a tiny bit.

But so does staying home.

And i doubt people that are eating at restaurants would be wanting those. 

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13 hours ago, jobarules said:

Thank you. I cant really view that graph without a subscription.. Then I see articles like this and I just don't understand the disparity in info.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/covid-19-cases-plateaued-york-city-experts-find/story%3fid=76472072#scso=_msBbYOb6EOOl1QHl3LD4Cw2580:0

Edit: I was able to get into the graph and I think there's something wrong with their data. If you hover over March 21 it shows 0 total cases.

You were right, thanks. Looks like they corrected it overnight.

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Is there any information on there on allergy medicines (Allegra type) interacting with the vaccine?  I am still 8 days away from being considered "fully vaccinated" but my spring allergies are starting to kick in and ramp up. I don't want to take anything that could prevent maximum immunity though.  

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