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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (7 Viewers)

AAABatteries said:
So you talk about them getting masks wrong and you point to somebody getting it right who said that kids shouldn't wear masks and worked early on to overturn mask mandates?  I have no dog in this fight but your position seems inconsistent at best and politically motivated at worst.
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You know I'm willing to admit that some of the positions DeSantis took may have been moer correct than the CDC guidance at the time.  I just wonder how he came to those conclusions.  If it was guesswork, then good guessing, but it may not be repeatable. 

 
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an executive order Friday calling for strict closures of beaches and businesses in Broward and Palm Beach counties. The restrictions are much broader than what he has ordered statewide thus far.

The closures apply to “all movie theatres, concert houses, auditoriums, playhouses, bowling alleys, arcades, gymnasiums, fitness studios and beaches” in those two counties, according to the release from the governor’s office. The order will be in effect until March 31. However, they can be renewed at that time with a written request from the county administrators 

If it is known outside is no big deal why he go shut the beaches down?!?

 
The Z Machine said:
You know I'm willing to admit that some of the positions DeSantis took may have been moer correct than the CDC guidance at the time.  I just wonder how he came to those conclusions.  If it was guesswork, then good guessing, but it may not be repeatable. 
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My point is similar to others - nobody was perfect on this.  I didn't really hammer any officials or politicians because this was a unique situation.  I just want us to be consistent in our criticism and recognize that pretty much nobody knew all the details.  I'm willing to give most folks the benefit of the doubt as I truly believe most people were trying their best.

 
belljr said:
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an executive order Friday calling for strict closures of beaches and businesses in Broward and Palm Beach counties. The restrictions are much broader than what he has ordered statewide thus far.

The closures apply to “all movie theatres, concert houses, auditoriums, playhouses, bowling alleys, arcades, gymnasiums, fitness studios and beaches” in those two counties, according to the release from the governor’s office. The order will be in effect until March 31. However, they can be renewed at that time with a written request from the county administrators 

If it is known outside is no big deal why he go shut the beaches down?!?
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Don't the state's emergency orders expire tonight if he doesn't extend them like he has in 60 day increments previously? It would seem odd that he would ramp up policies in 2 problematic counties, but potentially clear the rest. I wonder if he is in fact extending the emergency order. He has until midnight tonight iirc. Maybe they should just wall off Broward and Palm Beach Counties (pure sarcasm I assure you)

 
Osaurus said:
Don't the state's emergency orders expire tonight if he doesn't extend them like he has in 60 day increments previously? It would seem odd that he would ramp up policies in 2 problematic counties, but potentially clear the rest. I wonder if he is in fact extending the emergency order. He has until midnight tonight iirc. Maybe they should just wall off Broward and Palm Beach Counties (pure sarcasm I assure you)
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That was from last year.  :)

the point was everyone has had views that are ever changing during this, and to say well so and so were wrong at first is just pure lunacy.

Everyone was trying "their best" to balance a health crisis and financial impacts.  Some didn't "do enough" and some "probably did too much" and this thing becoming political was stupid from the start and still is.  To call out one "arm" of this whole process is just trying for attention

 
belljr said:
That was from last year.  :)

the point was everyone has had views that are ever changing during this, and to say well so and so were wrong at first is just pure lunacy.

Everyone was trying "their best" to balance a health crisis and financial impacts.  Some didn't "do enough" and some "probably did too much" and this thing becoming political was stupid from the start and still is.  To call out one "arm" of this whole process is just trying for attention
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Ok. I just went scrolling through a ####load of executive orders.  :lol:   I don't disagree with your comment at all. 

 
belljr said:
That was from last year.  :)

the point was everyone has had views that are ever changing during this, and to say well so and so were wrong at first is just pure lunacy.

Everyone was trying "their best" to balance a health crisis and financial impacts.  Some didn't "do enough" and some "probably did too much" and this thing becoming political was stupid from the start and still is.  To call out one "arm" of this whole process is just trying for attention
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the irony

 
jobarules said:
the irony
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I don't think that word means what you think it does ....

But if blasting the CDC for being wrong about masks , outdoors transmission and shutdowns but praising a governor that shut beaches down was the correct move then maybe it is!@!#!

Edit: this will be my last reply to this so have at it 

Hint: I don't think Desantis did everything right or everything wrong, the same is said for the CDC

 
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New Mask Guidelines from CDC

Fully vaccinated people can:

Visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing

Visit with unvaccinated people (including children) from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing

Participate in outdoor activities and recreation without a mask, except in certain crowded settings and venues

Resume domestic travel and refrain from testing before or after travel or self-quarantine after travel.

Refrain from testing before leaving the United States for international travel (unless required by the destination) and refrain from self-quarantine after arriving back in the United States.

Refrain from testing following a known exposure, if asymptomatic, with some exceptions for specific settings

Refrain from quarantine following a known exposure if asymptomatic

Refrain from routine screening testing if asymptomatic and feasible

For now, fully vaccinated people should continue to:

Take precautions in indoor public settings like wearing a well-fitted mask

Wear masks that fit snuggly when visiting indoors with unvaccinated people who are at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease or who have an unvaccinated household member who is at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease

Wear well-fitted masks when visiting indoors with unvaccinated people from multiple households

Avoid indoor large-sized in-person gatherings

Get tested if experiencing COVID-19 symptoms

Follow guidance issued by individual employers

Follow CDC and health department travel requirements and recommendations
Click to expand...

 
After new cases in MN initially peaked just before Thanksgiving, MN saw another mini-spike in cases late March - early April. But it looks like we're solidly back on the downward trend. A few more people getting vaccines, throw in some nice weather, and we're not far from having this in the bag here. 

As an aside,  I passed an elderly gentleman while running yesterday. As I came up from behind, I hopped off the sidewalk onto the road, and then popped back on the sidewalk when I got in front of him. I heard him say something like "that's not enough distance" but I wasn't really listening and it didn't immediately register. I started thinking about it and felt torn because 1) I probably only gave him a 3-4 foot bubble so I can see somebody being worried, but 2) we were outside and he wasn't going to get covid in the half second we were close.

I guess my point is, it'll be nice when we can go back to normal interactions between people and we're not concerned with "am I too close" or "do I need a mask". 

 
FBG26 said:
After new cases in MN initially peaked just before Thanksgiving, MN saw another mini-spike in cases late March - early April. But it looks like we're solidly back on the downward trend. A few more people getting vaccines, throw in some nice weather, and we're not far from having this in the bag here. 

As an aside,  I passed an elderly gentleman while running yesterday. As I came up from behind, I hopped off the sidewalk onto the road, and then popped back on the sidewalk when I got in front of him. I heard him say something like "that's not enough distance" but I wasn't really listening and it didn't immediately register. I started thinking about it and felt torn because 1) I probably only gave him a 3-4 foot bubble so I can see somebody being worried, but 2) we were outside and he wasn't going to get covid in the half second we were close.

I guess my point is, it'll be nice when we can go back to normal interactions between people and we're not concerned with "am I too close" or "do I need a mask". 
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Angry Old Man Shakes Fist At Clouds 

 
FBG26 said:
After new cases in MN initially peaked just before Thanksgiving, MN saw another mini-spike in cases late March - early April. But it looks like we're solidly back on the downward trend. A few more people getting vaccines, throw in some nice weather, and we're not far from having this in the bag here. 

As an aside,  I passed an elderly gentleman while running yesterday. As I came up from behind, I hopped off the sidewalk onto the road, and then popped back on the sidewalk when I got in front of him. I heard him say something like "that's not enough distance" but I wasn't really listening and it didn't immediately register. I started thinking about it and felt torn because 1) I probably only gave him a 3-4 foot bubble so I can see somebody being worried, but 2) we were outside and he wasn't going to get covid in the half second we were close.

I guess my point is, it'll be nice when we can go back to normal interactions between people and we're not concerned with "am I too close" or "do I need a mask". 
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As someone that probably was in the I was irrationally overly concerned bucket. I find this ridiculous 

 
The Brazil variant is here, probably won't be long before the India and South African variants make their way here too (are they already here as well?). Initial examinations seem to indicate current vaccines aren't 100% against these, particularly the Brazil variant. Maybe hang on to your masks for a bit, even if you're vaccinated.

 
Extremely interesting article on the post-pandemic world, from US Intelligence Report > 

U.S. intelligence officials have little comfort to offer a pandemic-weary planet about where the world is heading in the next 20 years. Short answer: It looks pretty bleak.

(snip)

Looking over the time horizon, it finds a world unsettled by the coronavirus pandemic, the ravages of climate change — which will propel mass migration — and a widening gap between what people demand from their leaders and what they can actually deliver.

(snip)

Within societies, fragmentation is increasing — political, cultural, economic — and “large segments of the global population are becoming wary of institutions and governments that they see as unwilling or unable to address their needs,” the report says.

The effects of the pandemic will linger, and could shape future generations’ expectations of their governments, particularly as a warming world leads to new human conflicts, including, in the most dire scenario, global food shortages that spawn mass violence.

(snip)

Within societies, fragmentation is increasing — political, cultural, economic — and “large segments of the global population are becoming wary of institutions and governments that they see as unwilling or unable to address their needs,” the report says.

The effects of the pandemic will linger, and could shape future generations’ expectations of their governments, particularly as a warming world leads to new human conflicts, including, in the most dire scenario, global food shortages that spawn mass violence.

On the rosiest end, a “Renaissance of democracies” ushers in a new era of U.S. global leadership, in which economic growth and technological achievements offer solutions to the world’s biggest problems and Russia and China are largely left in the dust, authoritarian vestiges whose brightest scientists and entrepreneurs have fled to the United States and Europe.

At the dark end of the future is “tragedy and mobilization,” when the United States is no longer the dominant player, and a global environmental catastrophe prompts food shortages and a “bottom-up” revolution, with younger people, scarred by their leaders’ failures during the coronavirus pandemic, embracing policies to repair the climate and tackle long-standing social inequality. In this scenario, a European Union dominated by green parties works with the United Nations to expand international aid and focus on sustainability, and China joins the effort in part to quell domestic unrest in its cities affected by famine.

In between those extremes, the report imagines three other possibilities: China becomes a leading state but not globally dominant; the United States and China prosper and compete as the two major powers; and globalization fails to create a single source of influence, and the world more or less devolves into competing blocs, preoccupied with threats to their prosperity and security.
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Possibly being overly pessimistic, but this echoes suspicions I've had with the younger generation trending strongly toward government-intervention and democratic socialism. We're entering a period where governments are going to overpromise, then under deliver. I'm worried the associated taxation will increase and further destabilize our middle class.

This is not to favor one party over another as I'm not a fan of either... it's merely to say that increasing reliance on government for day to day support is going to turn around and bite us in the ###.. particularly if exacerbated by a worsening of this, or an additional pandemic. 

IMO, We're one bad variant twist or new virus away from some pretty dark times. I hope I'm wrong. 

 
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BigJim® said:
:lmao:

If I'm following the logic right, folks can't be forced to wear a mask because individual rights > risk posed to others, but other people can be forced not to vaccinate because an imagined risk to others > right to protect one's self? 
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It's all about, like, perspective.... man. 

 
Breaking in Oregon...

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/oregon-counties-covid-extreme-risk/283-dc49c8b0-4596-4b95-9fb8-7147e0852e8a

PORTLAND, Ore — Oregon Gov. Kate Brown on Tuesday announced that 15 counties, including Multnomah and Clackamas, will move back into the extreme risk category for COVID-19 on Friday, April 30.

The move to extreme risk bans indoor dining at restaurants and significantly reduces the number of people who can be inside a gym or indoor entertainment space. Brown announced that outdoor capacity limits for bars, restaurants, and other sectors will be raised from 50 to 100 people in extreme risk counties, as long as health and safety measures, including physical distancing, are in place.
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tonydead said:
I thought I heard it reported in the evening news that we decided to send 60 million. There are an awful lot of people over there, probably wont make a dent. 
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I must have been mistaken.  Biden said in his briefing today that they are sending Remdesivir and some other drugs, plus equipment to help them build the machines to make their own vaccine.  He hopes to be able to share actual vaccine with them sometime in the future.

 
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[icon] said:
Exactly... getting your panties in a wad because we didn't immediately have complete understanding of a novel virus is downright comical, and show a profound lack of understanding of how science works.  

This thing spread like wildfire in today's globalized word. 20-50 million people died due to the Spanish flu. Images and news from Wuhan and Milan were everywhere. Frankly I don't think we acted strongly or quickly ENOUGH.

Add in the politicization of this virus and the subset of Americans stupidly dragging their feet on compliance on things like masks and shutdown (many of whom who are still in this thread), and it's remarkable we "only" have 600k dead, honestly. The fact that we had a historically effective vaccine within months, and had tens of millions of doses GTG within a year is the biggest reason we don't have a million US citizens dead. 

Sorry, not sorry. 
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If we ever get a real pandemic there’s going to be a lot of dead Americans real fast. The lack of education, understanding and adherence to even basic science is just so startling. 

 
If the next pandemic is called (insert virus name here)-2...

I sure hope they use whatever virus name they put there as the roadmap for their decisions instead of the flu if they are going to just WAG it.

 
urbanhack said:
Breaking in Oregon...

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/oregon-counties-covid-extreme-risk/283-dc49c8b0-4596-4b95-9fb8-7147e0852e8a
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I wonder how much of it is poor vaccine rollout. We have a lot of snowbirds from the area and I was surprised how far behind they were. No matter what, adjustments need to be made due to vaccinations. Either change the levels or the restriction levels. You can’t pretend that a significant portion of the public is now nearly immune.

 
Capella said:
If we ever get a real pandemic there’s going to be a lot of dead Americans real fast.
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This is a huge concern to people in the field -- someone I know connects regularly with all the deep state government names you read in the press and this is something she brought up.

They don't think this is the big one, and if a future pandemic is more fatal than COVID we've pretty much proved that we're ####ed. 

 
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Biff84 said:
I wonder how much of it is poor vaccine rollout. We have a lot of snowbirds from the area and I was surprised how far behind they were. No matter what, adjustments need to be made due to vaccinations. Either change the levels or the restriction levels. You can’t pretend that a significant portion of the public is now nearly immune.
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I think we got limited distribution of the vaccine or were on the tail end of it. I'm 52 and healthy and it wasn't until last Monday that I was finally eligible. I could have driven to Salem or other places where people are choosing not to get vaccinated, but didn't.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
This is a huge concern to people in the field -- someone I know connects regularly with all the deep state government names you read in the press and this is something she brought up.

They don't think this is the big one, and if a future pandemic is more fatal than COVID we've pretty much proved that we're ####ed. 
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I truly hope it doesn’t happen. The amount of people who have cared so little about something has killed so many is alarming. People literally willing to die rather than face any short-term problems. 
 

How did we get so many people to go to war for 4-5 years? The draft I guess but this is definitely a different mindset now. We couldn’t even get people to stay inside and watch f’n Netflix. 

 
urbanhack said:
I think we got limited distribution of the vaccine or were on the tail end of it. I'm 52 and healthy and it wasn't until last Monday that I was finally eligible. I could have driven to Salem or other places where people are choosing not to get vaccinated, but didn't.
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The people I’ve talked to seemed to think they drug their feet too long on lowering the age eligibility, trying to get everyone in the age group before moving onto the next. I disagreed with how aggressively Arizona moved and with which groups but in hindsight they did a good job of making sure all vaccine was being used efficiently and any delays were only a couple of weeks. 

 
Biff84 said:
The people I’ve talked to seemed to think they drug their feet too long on lowering the age eligibility, trying to get everyone in the age group before moving onto the next. I disagreed with how aggressively Arizona moved and with which groups but in hindsight they did a good job of making sure all vaccine was being used efficiently and any delays were only a couple of weeks. 
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Yea...I don't know the details without speculating. I think anyone who really wanted to get vaccinated ahead of time could have and said they were a smoker or had another health condition.  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Things will stop being shut down when/where community spread is reduced.  That only happens with the population being vaccinated.
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Oregon currently has the third lowest case rate in the country, only 4.31% of folks living in Oregon have gotten COVID.  National average is 9.94%.  Yet, Governor Brown continues to lock down the state.

 
Three kids at my son's elementary school have tested positive in the last week.  My son is 100% remote still, but played with neighbors outside recently.  

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
They don't think this is the big one, and if a future pandemic is more fatal than COVID we've pretty much proved that we're ####ed. 
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I would like to think that higher lethality would cause people to drop the politics and wrap both arms around (even imperfect) science real quick. At a point ... a lot more people would be forced to concede "I admit -- in fact I don't know what's best for myself in this particular situation and I will thus act accordingly".

Even then, I'd expect some holdouts. Just hopefully far fewer.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Three kids at my son's elementary school have tested positive in the last week.  My son is 100% remote still, but played with neighbors outside recently.  
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This has been an ongoing thing at both my kids' schools, all school year long. Schools may not appear to be a major COVID transmission driver using nationwide statistics ... but I don't have confidence that schools aren't a driver at some level.

 
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