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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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1 hour ago, JaxBill said:

Sooooo....I've been fully vaccinated since mid-March. I went over to a friend's house Sunday. Stayed roughly an hour. We were drinking beers and talking, anywhere from 4 to 10 feet away. 

Friend texts me that he started feeling minor symptoms yesterday and got tested today. Positive. He was not vaccinated. 

Anyway,  I'm telling you this because it is damn near impossible to find a rapid test in North Florida.I finally got one for Friday afternoon.

CDC says I don't need a test unless I feel symptoms (which I don't). Still going to lay low and avoid interactions until I know for sure. (WFH so that's not an issue but skipping Thursday Happy Hour just in case)

Can’t remember if I told this story in this thread or another one, but a few weeks ago I t had a minor scare when my 6 y.o. and I were both exposed to someone who later tested positive. I’m vaxxed (and all three of us were wearing masks the whole time) and I wasn’t nearly as freaked out as I would have been six months ago, but I still got my son tested, partially for peace of mind and partially because we had an upcoming trip. I didn’t get tested initially, but when I came down with a cold a couple days before our trip I did it just in case (negative).

Sucks that it’s hard to get one in N Fla (it was pretty easy in Miami), but sounds like you’re doing the right thing by laying low for a couple days. Good luck!

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3 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Seems exactly what the CDC would do. The problem is the horse is out of the barn. A move like that would be seen as punishing vaccinated at the expense of protecting people who refuse to get the vaccine. I'm perfectly open to the idea that the CDC is full of clueless knuckleheads that don't know science from Shinola, but what "science" has changed in two months? Either the vaccines are working or they aren't. If they aren't working against Delta, Pfizer said they were prepared to create a booster, yet 2 weeks ago the CDC said that isn't needed.

As the article said, the guidance to drop masks for the vaccinated is being taken advantage of by the non-vacinnated. It puts undue burden on employers and business owners to try police it. It was the wrong move. With vaccines stalled out under the herd immunity threshold it's the perfect storm for new vaccine resistant strains to arise. We need mask mandates put back in place in the short term and a full court press to educate the vaccine weary skeptics to get them on board ASAP.

A common response I've heard seems to be screw the anti-vaxxers. I'm immune and they made their choice. The problem is we are all in this together. The anti-vaxxers are poking holes in the bottom of the boat.

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Cape Cod nursing home.... 33 positive tests among vaxxed staff and elderly... no serious illness.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/07/20/cape-cod-nursing-home-covid-outbreak/
 

"According to the Massachusetts Department of Public Health, 24 residents and nine staff members at the Maplewood at Mayflower Place nursing home have tested positive for COVID since July 10, The Boston Globe reported. The outbreak grew quickly: just last week, on July 16, the Cape Cod Times reported that over 10 people had tested positive for the virus.

Most of the residents that tested positive are vaccinated, and are asymptomatic or experiencing only mild symptoms, the Globe reported. COVID-positive residents were offered monoclonal antibody therapeutics, and positive staff are “stable,” according to the DPH."

 

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This study published today in NEJM shows that two doses of all vaccines is very effective against Delta and that two doses of Pfizer/BioNTech (BNT162b2 ) vaccine loses minimal effectiveness; 93.7% alpha to 88 % delta. Encouraging. Paper also points out that 2 doses is really important, so perhaps the 1 shot UK plan wasn't the best approach.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

CONCLUSIONS
Only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness were noted with the delta variant as compared with the alpha variant after the receipt of two vaccine doses. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked after the receipt of the first dose. This finding would support efforts to maximize vaccine uptake with two doses among vulnerable populations. (Funded by Public Health England.) With the BNT162b2 vaccine, a small difference in effectiveness between variants was seen after the second dose: 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) with the delta variant.

Edited by ericttspikes
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Our local K-12 schools just announced that they're starting the school year mask-optional.  Makes sense to me.  We had in-person schooling (masked of course) all last year with no obvious issues, and obviously the community is in way better shape now.

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https://apnews.com/article/health-religion-coronavirus-pandemic-michael-brown-dbc0303c3fa13643ca2dc0eb8d806f33
 

US virus cases nearly triple in 2 weeks amid misinformation

Particularly sad excerpt: 

Jacob Burmood, a 40-year-old Kansas City, Missouri, artist, said his mother has been promoting vaccine conspiracy theories even though her husband — Burmood’s stepfather — is hospitalized on a ventilator in Springfield.

“It is really, really sad, and it is really frustrating,” he said.

Burmood recalled how his mother had recently fallen ill and “was trying to tell me that vaccinated people got her sick, and it wasn’t even COVID. I just shut her down. I said, ‘Mom, I can’t talk to you about conspiracy theories right now.’ ... You need to go to a hospital. You are going to die.”

 

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3 minutes ago, [icon] said:

https://apnews.com/article/health-religion-coronavirus-pandemic-michael-brown-dbc0303c3fa13643ca2dc0eb8d806f33
 

US virus cases nearly triple in 2 weeks amid misinformation

Particularly sad excerpt: 

Jacob Burmood, a 40-year-old Kansas City, Missouri, artist, said his mother has been promoting vaccine conspiracy theories even though her husband — Burmood’s stepfather — is hospitalized on a ventilator in Springfield.

“It is really, really sad, and it is really frustrating,” he said.

Burmood recalled how his mother had recently fallen ill and “was trying to tell me that vaccinated people got her sick, and it wasn’t even COVID. I just shut her down. I said, ‘Mom, I can’t talk to you about conspiracy theories right now.’ ... You need to go to a hospital. You are going to die.”

 

It's really sad and frustrating to see just how dug in people are over this whole thing. People literally IN the hospital with Covid saying it's a hoax, conspiracy, etc.  I cannot imagine how the medical professionals treating these people must feel hearing so many people be so dismissive of this ####. They are the real MVPs!

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41 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Our local K-12 schools just announced that they're starting the school year mask-optional.  Makes sense to me.  We had in-person schooling (masked of course) all last year with no obvious issues, and obviously the community is in way better shape now.

Mask optional makes no sense.

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13 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

This is great communication. Wish it was designed a little better with icons / call outs but we need these concise fact based communications to help offset some of the mouth-breathers. It's literally a battle for minds, which is sad. 

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1 hour ago, [icon] said:

This is great communication.

I guess scientists have to hedge ... but I was disappointed that the chart still reads "We do not know the long term side effects of mRNA COVID19 vaccines." That's all the sanction the vaccine-refusers ever need.

So far as I'm concerned, we do, indeed, know the long term side effects. The biological effects and dispositions of all the vaccine components are understood. There's no "mystery meat" in the vaccine, and no poorly-understood "voodoo" going on. Knowing something with virtual certainty -- that there won't be long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines -- is more than good enough IMHO.

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OK, so my reading of this NEJM study is that it suggests while kids are indeed low-risk from serious Covid cases, in the event that they do get it, they seem to have the ability to spread it to adults in their own household. 

That would still leave some questions unanswered, namely how likely are they to bring it home in the first place, and how much should household members worry if they themselves are vaccinated.

Anything I'm missing here?

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6 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

The NFL opened up a giant can of Not Effing Around on the vaccine.  Pleasant surprise.

Love it! 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/07/22/nfl-forfeit-rule-unvaccinated-covid-19-players-schedule/8058078002/

TLDR: Have an outbreak among unvaccinated players, and the game can't be rescheduled during the 18wk season.... you forfeit. :thumbup:

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10 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Love it! 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/07/22/nfl-forfeit-rule-unvaccinated-covid-19-players-schedule/8058078002/

TLDR: Have an outbreak among unvaccinated players, and the game can't be rescheduled during the 18wk season.... you forfeit. :thumbup:

This should have been the rule last year....and in CFB as well.

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I also read that the team with the outbreak may have to compensate the other team financially for costs of rescheduling a game. Travel costs, hotel costs etc.

ETA: And if any game is forfeited, players on both teams do not get paid.

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19 hours ago, Doug B said:

I apologize for taking your post out of context. I unfairly lumped you in with a general grouping with which you do not identify.

I stand by the content of that post for this thread's general audience.

Don’t apologize. Reading their posts made me think they are being nice about spreading misinformation.

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So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

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4 minutes ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

Check out the link I posted upthread from Your Local Epidemiologist (she's also on FB under that name, with tons of great info). The myocarditis angle is one she mentions in there and how to talk about it to someone who is hesitant.  Basically the message, IMHO, should be: The benefit of the infinitely lower chance of getting severe Covid, long Covid, etc. FAR outweighs the tiny risk of any of those RARE effects (refer to the percentages if necessary).  Kids are no longer "immune" to Covid thanks to Delta. There are kids in hospitals and on ventilators right now, which was virtually unheard of a year ago.  

After some thought and ample research, I didn't give my kids a choice. I'm comfortable with my decision, especially seeing what's going on right now, and what I fear is about to get much worse as schools open back up amidst Delta. 

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10 minutes ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

FWIW - I know of many kids that have been vaccinated with no issues. (Other than normal side effects for a day) mostly super tired.

I'm not telling you what to do just my own personal experience

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7 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

Check out the link I posted upthread from Your Local Epidemiologist (she's also on FB under that name, with tons of great info). The myocarditis angle is one she mentions in there and how to talk about it to someone who is hesitant.  Basically the message, IMHO, should be: The benefit of the infinitely lower chance of getting severe Covid, long Covid, etc. FAR outweighs the tiny risk of any of those RARE effects (refer to the percentages if necessary).  Kids are no longer "immune" to Covid thanks to Delta. There are kids in hospitals and on ventilators right now, which was virtually unheard of a year ago.  

After some thought and ample research, I didn't give my kids a choice. I'm comfortable with my decision, especially seeing what's going on right now, and what I fear is about to get much worse as schools open back up amidst Delta. 

I read that article (at least I thought I did) but missed her mentioning the 2 issues.  Guess I need to go back and read again and show my son.  I'm on the verge of it not being a choice for them but my wife didn't really back me up.  Kids are planning movie nights and sleepovers and big birthday parties.  NOONE in alabama cares anymore.  It's like I the only parent saying no right now.  So frustrating.  And I am a high school soccer coach.  Just had to remind the boys it's not over, don't do dumb stuff etc etc.

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3 minutes ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

I read that article (at least I thought I did) but missed her mentioning the 2 issues.  Guess I need to go back and read again and show my son.  I'm on the verge of it not being a choice for them but my wife didn't really back me up.  Kids are planning movie nights and sleepovers and big birthday parties.  NOONE in alabama cares anymore.  It's like I the only parent saying no right now.  So frustrating.  And I am a high school soccer coach.  Just had to remind the boys it's not over, don't do dumb stuff etc etc.

It's in the little chart graphic, listed as "heart inflammation" in the second section (Side Effects)

And I feel your pain, GB. It's "all over" here too. smh

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16 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

  After some thought and ample research, I didn't give my kids a choice. 

My kids both wanted to be vaccinated so the issue never really came up, but I would have insisted if it came to that.  You made the right call IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Private Pyle and the jelly donut.

”They’re paying for it — YOU EAT IT!”

 

I'm not familiar with the reference, but it seems inherently unfair for a team of NFL players to be hit economically from something that a different team is responsible for. There's literally nothing they can do to avoid it, and nothing they did wrong. 

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19 minutes ago, belljr said:

FWIW - I know of many kids that have been vaccinated with no issues. (Other than normal side effects for a day) mostly super tired.

I'm not telling you what to do just my own personal experience

My kids (14, 16 and 19 at the time) had no problems at all outside of being tired and a sore arm . Youngest went to lacrosse practice the next day. We just timed it to a day without anything.

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28 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Hmmm, not sure I love this part of it. Why both teams?

Was going to say peer pressure is a strong motivator but @Doug B put it much better. Watch Full Metal Jacket.

10 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Private Pyle and the jelly donut.

”They’re paying for it — YOU EAT IT!”

 

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12 minutes ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

I read that article (at least I thought I did) but missed her mentioning the 2 issues.  Guess I need to go back and read again and show my son.  I'm on the verge of it not being a choice for them but my wife didn't really back me up.  Kids are planning movie nights and sleepovers and big birthday parties.  NOONE in alabama cares anymore.  It's like I the only parent saying no right now.  So frustrating.  And I am a high school soccer coach.  Just had to remind the boys it's not over, don't do dumb stuff etc etc.

That’s why any side affects are so minimal compared to getting COVID. The people around you won’t care until they are so sick, but you have an easy alternative to make your kids safer than the kids with whom they will hang out. It was a no-brainer for me and my kids never said boo. My oldest was psyched that he was working at his college’s CV lab so he qualified early.

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57 minutes ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

My son is 12. Ive decided the risk of serious covid is so infinitesimal to him that the reward of the vaccine does not outweigh the risk and if kids still need to wear masks in school I see zero reason to get it for him. Now if they say vaccinated kids no longer need to wear masks then I will ask him what he wants to do.

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53 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

Check out the link I posted upthread from Your Local Epidemiologist (she's also on FB under that name, with tons of great info). The myocarditis angle is one she mentions in there and how to talk about it to someone who is hesitant.  Basically the message, IMHO, should be: The benefit of the infinitely lower chance of getting severe Covid, long Covid, etc. FAR outweighs the tiny risk of any of those RARE effects (refer to the percentages if necessary).  Kids are no longer "immune" to Covid thanks to Delta. There are kids in hospitals and on ventilators right now, which was virtually unheard of a year ago.  

After some thought and ample research, I didn't give my kids a choice. I'm comfortable with my decision, especially seeing what's going on right now, and what I fear is about to get much worse as schools open back up amidst Delta. 

I havent heard anything about the risk to children being any great from Delta than last year.

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5 minutes ago, jobarules said:

My son is 12. Ive decided the risk of serious covid is so infinitesimal to him that the reward of the vaccine does not outweigh the risk and if kids still need to wear masks in school I see zero reason to get it for him. Now if they say vaccinated kids no longer need to wear masks then I will ask him what he wants to do.

Solid approach IMO 

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1 hour ago, jobarules said:

I havent heard anything about the risk to children being any great from Delta than last year.

You're right, kind of. I could've stated that better but see this below... so per the underlined near the end, statistically speaking, it's not proportionately worse yet risk-wise, but younger and unvaccinated will take the brunt of Delta, because of how much more infectious it is, coupled with the fact that the other cohort in the equation (vaccinated) are relatively well-protected. Children and un-vaxed are the weakest link right now, so it stands to reason that they are at more risk right now. This is not a trend you want to be on the back end of, IMO. Just my :2cents:  

Anecdotally, I don't recall hearing or reading of any children hospitalized last year with Covid (I'm sure there may have been an outlier or two). Fast forward to now, I have heard of 3 children in my area who are hospitalized currently, with one needing ventilation. And have seen several anecdotal reports of more hospitalized children outside of my immediate region.  Again they are a small percentage of hospitalizations, but more than I recall hearing at any point last year, and sadly I'd expect that to increase in the coming weeks, given the explosion of cases. Thank goodness the deaths are still relatively flat across the board. We'll take that win at this point.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/lots-of-questions-from-parents-heres

“How is Delta affecting kids?”

Delta is 200% more transmissible, so more kids will get it (just like more unvaccinated adults will get it). Delta also has a 1000% higher viral load, which means kids will test positive more quickly following exposure. This also means people are shedding a ton more virus, so if your kid comes in contact with a positive COVID19 case, the probability of getting infected increases. If your kid becomes positive, they have more opportunity to infect others too.

The primary mode of transmission is still direct contact and inhaled particles. Higher transmissibility does not mean Delta is transferred in more aerosol form than before.

We do not know if Delta is more severe for kids (or adults) than previous variants. A higher viral load does not necessarily mean increased severity. A recent Lancet study found the hospitalization rate of adults was 85% higher than other variants, but other studies show severity is no different. The consensus among scientists: Jury is still out.

“How many pediatric cases are there and is the rate increasing?”

Last week, 23,551 pediatric COVID-19 cases were reported and kids represented 15.9% of all cases in the United States. This percentage will continue to increase as more and more adolescents and adults get vaccinated.

In 23 states, 2.3% of COVID19 hospitalizations are children (children hospitalized / everyone hospitalized) and the hospitalization rate among kids (hospitalized / infected) remains to be 0.9%.

In the past 14 days, there’s been a 94.6% increase in pediatric cases. Raw pediatric cases (first graph) continues to follow national trends, which means they do not seem disproportionally impacted by Delta compared to adults. But, both pediatric and adult cases continue to rise, which is concerning in and of itself.

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3 hours ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

You're right, kind of. I could've stated that better but see this below... so per the underlined near the end, statistically speaking, it's not proportionately worse yet risk-wise, but younger and unvaccinated will take the brunt of Delta, because of how much more infectious it is, coupled with the fact that the other cohort in the equation (vaccinated) are relatively well-protected. Children and un-vaxed are the weakest link right now, so it stands to reason that they are at more risk right now. This is not a trend you want to be on the back end of, IMO. Just my :2cents:  

Anecdotally, I don't recall hearing or reading of any children hospitalized last year with Covid (I'm sure there may have been an outlier or two). Fast forward to now, I have heard of 3 children in my area who are hospitalized currently, with one needing ventilation. And have seen several anecdotal reports of more hospitalized children outside of my immediate region.  Again they are a small percentage of hospitalizations, but more than I recall hearing at any point last year, and sadly I'd expect that to increase in the coming weeks, given the explosion of cases. Thank goodness the deaths are still relatively flat across the board. We'll take that win at this point.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/lots-of-questions-from-parents-heres

“How is Delta affecting kids?”

Delta is 200% more transmissible, so more kids will get it (just like more unvaccinated adults will get it). Delta also has a 1000% higher viral load, which means kids will test positive more quickly following exposure. This also means people are shedding a ton more virus, so if your kid comes in contact with a positive COVID19 case, the probability of getting infected increases. If your kid becomes positive, they have more opportunity to infect others too.

The primary mode of transmission is still direct contact and inhaled particles. Higher transmissibility does not mean Delta is transferred in more aerosol form than before.

We do not know if Delta is more severe for kids (or adults) than previous variants. A higher viral load does not necessarily mean increased severity. A recent Lancet study found the hospitalization rate of adults was 85% higher than other variants, but other studies show severity is no different. The consensus among scientists: Jury is still out.

“How many pediatric cases are there and is the rate increasing?”

Last week, 23,551 pediatric COVID-19 cases were reported and kids represented 15.9% of all cases in the United States. This percentage will continue to increase as more and more adolescents and adults get vaccinated.

In 23 states, 2.3% of COVID19 hospitalizations are children (children hospitalized / everyone hospitalized) and the hospitalization rate among kids (hospitalized / infected) remains to be 0.9%.

In the past 14 days, there’s been a 94.6% increase in pediatric cases. Raw pediatric cases (first graph) continues to follow national trends, which means they do not seem disproportionally impacted by Delta compared to adults. But, both pediatric and adult cases continue to rise, which is concerning in and of itself.

So if I read this right, TLDR is that Delta isn't necessarily more dangerous to kids in particular, but if lots more people are getting infected, then lots more kids will be, too. Or to put it another way, the ratios aren't changing but the volume is.

As a parent, my response to that is to take reasonable steps to prevent my kids from getting it (mostly in the form of masks) but not to freak out if they do. 

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11 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

OK, so my reading of this NEJM study is that it suggests while kids are indeed low-risk from serious Covid cases, in the event that they do get it, they seem to have the ability to spread it to adults in their own household. 

That would still leave some questions unanswered, namely how likely are they to bring it home in the first place, and how much should household members worry if they themselves are vaccinated.

Anything I'm missing here?

That all makes sense.  It's why the logic of "kids are asymptomatic and not really getting sick, so they are completely ok to be at school in person without masks" never made any sense to me.   But hey, that's just me.   

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8 hours ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

Man.   That's a lot to unpack.  We talked with the kids about it a lot, shared articles with them, etc.  They were ready to get the vax immediately.  Information is king.  No advice, just sharing our approach.

BTW - big kudos on having a 17 yo volleyball player girlfriend.  Unless I misread that and you were referring to your 17 y/o's girlfriend being the volleyball player.  That makes more sense, but I'm still rooting for the first explanation.

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17 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Our local K-12 schools just announced that they're starting the school year mask-optional.  Makes sense to me.  We had in-person schooling (masked of course) all last year with no obvious issues, and obviously the community is in way better shape now.

Ours is doing the same, and at first I thought it was a good decision. However, now I’m not sure.  What about the kids whose parents want them to wear a mask? Is the teacher supposed to police their desires?  Does a teacher need a list of which kids are mask and no mask? “Johnny, your mom said you need your mask.  Put it on!” If you are one of the only kids whose parents requires you to wear a mask, you will be different.  There will be a mask and no mask dynamic. Being a kid is hard enough when you are trying to fit in and not have something that separates you from others.  I fear the mask kids will be singled out. 

Edited by Wildcat
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9 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

So if I read this right, TLDR is that Delta isn't necessarily more dangerous to kids in particular, but if lots more people are getting infected, then lots more kids will be, too. Or to put it another way, the ratios aren't changing but the volume is.

As a parent, my response to that is to take reasonable steps to prevent my kids from getting it (mostly in the form of masks) but not to freak out if they do. 

No, delta is seeing a higher infection rate and higher viral load, so therefore it is more dangerous to unvaccinated children than the initial strain.

Also, I'll ask what you are afraid of?  The article states that 0 9% of kids that get infected with COVID are hospitalized.  That's a solid, known fact.  You are risking that because of what, unknown side effects?

Literally the risk of vaccine side effect issues <<<<<<<<< the risk of COVID issues.  Why people keep arguing against this simple math inequality is baffling and wreaks of emotionalism and susceptibility to fear mongering.

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6 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

No, delta is seeing a higher infection rate and higher viral load, so therefore it is more dangerous to unvaccinated children than the initial strain.

Also, I'll ask what you are afraid of?  The article states that 0 9% of kids that get infected with COVID are hospitalized.  That's a solid, known fact.  You are risking that because of what, unknown side effects?

Literally the risk of vaccine side effect issues <<<<<<<<< the risk of COVID issues.  Why people keep arguing against this simple math inequality is baffling and wreaks of emotionalism and susceptibility to fear mongering.

Not sure what you’re getting at, but I am fully vaccinated and my sons are both too young. When they become eligible, we’ll talk to their doctor, but I assume they will both get jabbed. 

My post was about what to do until then. 

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13 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Not sure what you’re getting at, but I am fully vaccinated and my sons are both too young. When they become eligible, we’ll talk to their doctor, but I assume they will both get jabbed. 

My post was about what to do until then. 

Sorry, got you mixed up with @jobarules above.

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15 hours ago, jobarules said:

My son is 12. Ive decided the risk of serious covid is so infinitesimal to him that the reward of the vaccine does not outweigh the risk and if kids still need to wear masks in school I see zero reason to get it for him. Now if they say vaccinated kids no longer need to wear masks then I will ask him what he wants to do.

This post specifically.

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16 hours ago, SpurrierisisGod said:

So we are grappling with whether or not to make the kids get vaccinated.

17y/o is scared...has seen the myocarditis and pericarditis stories and it freaks him out.  I know the chance is miniscule in comparison to total number of vaccines but it still causes pause in the middle of camp season trying to get a soccer scholarahip.

14 y/o mostly wants it but not sure.  She's not as news savvy and more anecdotal "I saw on tiktok" but again, I cant really find an article that says "shut up dummies and get it" to prove it to her.

Doesn't help that my wife is on the fence about the kids even though we both got vaccinated early with no side effects.  We also live in alabama which has a 33% vaccination rate and loads of idiots acting like this is over... trip to Walmart today I saw 1 other person besides me wearing a mask. School in fall is going to be a train wreck.

Eta: 17 y/o girlfriend is on a volleyball scholarship at a local college and was just told "no vaccine, no play".  Her family is against the kids getting vaccines.

Might be worth explaining to your 17 year old that the issues he is concerned with were a concern with other vaccines he's likely had in the past.  Does he understand what the condition is?

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On 7/22/2021 at 8:30 AM, IvanKaramazov said:

Our local K-12 schools just announced that they're starting the school year mask-optional.  Makes sense to me.  We had in-person schooling (masked of course) all last year with no obvious issues, and obviously the community is in way better shape now.

I live in the most highly-vaccinated large county in America, our vaccine rates are high and our case numbers are low.  I still have no doubt that my (vaccinated) daughter will be required to wear a mask at high school at least at the start of the year.  I’m just hoping that schools are fully open.

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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I live in the most highly-vaccinated large county in America, our vaccine rates are high and our case numbers are low.  I still have no doubt that my (vaccinated) daughter will be required to wear a mask at high school at least at the start of the year.  I’m just hoping that schools are fully open.

Our (the collective our) positions are so significantly different in this country.  This is a pretty good illustration.  I live in the most poorly vaccinated county in central Florida.  Masks have already been deemed "optional" and school is going to be fully opened this fall.

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Our (the collective our) positions are so significantly different in this country.  This is a pretty good illustration.  I live in the most poorly vaccinated county in central Florida.  Masks have already been deemed "optional" and school is going to be fully opened this fall.

Our county is one of the lowest vaccinated in Ohio and our schools were open the whole school year and there will be no masks this year.

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10 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

So if I read this right, TLDR is that Delta isn't necessarily more dangerous to kids in particular, but if lots more people are getting infected, then lots more kids will be, too. Or to put it another way, the ratios aren't changing but the volume is.

 

1 hour ago, Jayrod said:

No, delta is seeing a higher infection rate and higher viral load, so therefore it is more dangerous to unvaccinated children than the initial strain.

Well, it's both, IMO. The higher viral load makes it more infectious. And the IDK the percentages, but I'd guess that kids make up a huge portion of the susceptible population of vectors at this point. 

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