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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (10 Viewers)

shader said:
I thought the more important line was “Career scientists have been skeptical of the effort, noting the lack of data on the drug’s efficacy for coronavirus care”
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We've already fleshed out that line, I think.

As Dr. Fauci has explained several times on this topic: scientists are going to be skeptical until ample data is collected. It's how they're trained. It's how their brains work.

They can be skeptical and encouraged by anecdotal results at the same time.

 
cap'n grunge said:
Mr Anonymous said:
Apparently chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are working...

The FDA has issued an emergency use authorization for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to treat patients hospitalized with Covid-19.

I doubt they take this next step without additional data piling up on the positive side.
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That's good news because I'd been reading articles that studies showed it was not working
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Per Mr. A’s link, the FDA is trying to get past anecdotal evidence and is encouraging randomized trials through loosening access and availability of these drugs to COVID treatment providers.

As far as establishing efficacy - one of the big problems with the way chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been tested is that they’ve simply been given to patients to see what happens. Sounds OK, right? Trouble is, they can’t tease apart the effects of the drug from how the patient would have fared without the drug — not without a carefully structured randomized trial (or really, a series of them).

It’s not as simple as “Give ‘em drugs, see if they recover”. Some percentage recovers without the drug — how do we prove that the drug improves outcomes more than absence of the drug?

 
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RnR said:
We've already fleshed out that line, I think.

As Dr. Fauci has explained several times on this topic: scientists are going to be skeptical until ample data is collected. It's how they're trained. It's how their brains work.

They can be skeptical and encouraged by anecdotal results at the same time.
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Scientists are not generally encouraged by anecdotal evidence. Because it’s anecdotal.

 
My wife’s friend’s husband has been mildly sick at home this week outside Boston. She went out to the store and in the time she was out, he had to get rushed to the hospital. He got worse within hours and is in isolation in ICU. Prognosis is bleak. She didn’t get to see him before they took him to the hospital and now can’t visit him. 42 years old and had no other medical issues.   We are getting to the point where we don’t even want to check texts anymore with the number of people getting ahold of us with distress stories. 

 
-fish- said:
Scientists are not generally encouraged by anecdotal evidence. Because it’s anecdotal.
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I would agree with that. It's their job to be skeptical. So we're in agreeance that they'd be publicly skeptical either way, right?

I feel like this is going in circles.

1. All we have is ancedotal evidence right now.

2. We need more data.

3. The FDA is making a move that will give us more data.

4. Scientists are skeptical until they get more data.

It's all about how you want to interpret it from there.

 
Ventilator costing less than $300 developed by Rice University and Metric Technologies (Texas Medical Center press release, 3/27/2020)

Rice University and Canadian global health design firm Metric Technologies have

developed an automated bag valve mask ventilation unit that can be built for less than $300 worth of parts and help patients in treatment for COVID-19. The collaboration expects to share the plans for the ventilator by making them freely available online to anyone in the world. 


Faculty and students went into overdrive several weeks ago when requests began pouring into the university seeking plans for an early prototype developed in 2019 by Rice engineering seniors.

That team, which called itself Take a Breather, designed and built a programmable device able to squeeze a bag valve mask. These masks are typically carried by emergency medical personnel to help get air into the lungs of people having difficulty breathing on their own. But the masks are difficult to squeeze by hand for more than a few minutes at a time.
Keep in mind this is not the big “box” ventilators you might see at a patient’s bedside. The Rice team’s is a simpler device that would be employed at an earlier stage of criticality than intubation.
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Anarchy99 said:
My wife’s friend’s husband has been mildly sick at home this week outside Boston. She went out to the store and in the time she was out, he had to get rushed to the hospital. He got worse within hours and is in isolation in ICU. Prognosis is bleak. She didn’t get to see him before they took him to the hospital and now can’t visit him. 42 years old and had no other medical issues.   We are getting to the point where we don’t even want to check texts anymore with the number of people getting ahold of us with distress stories. 
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That is horrible. T&P

 
RnR said:
I would agree with that. It's their job to be skeptical. So we're in agreeance that they'd be publicly skeptical either way, right?

I feel like this is going in circles.

1. All we have is ancedotal evidence right now.

2. We need more data.

3. The FDA is making a move that will give us more data.

4. Scientists are skeptical until they get more data.

It's all about how you want to interpret it from there.
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The posts I saw aren’t a circle... they are just corrections to your statements that scientists are generally encouraged. They aren’t. Test away, because who knows? Test anything that won’t do more harm. Just don’t contradict what scientists are saying about the prospects.

 
BigJim® said:
The posts I saw aren’t a circle... they are just corrections to your statements that scientists are generally encouraged. They aren’t. Test away, because who knows? Test anything that won’t do more harm. Just don’t contradict what scientists are saying about the prospects.
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Considering I never once made the statement that scientists are "generally encouraged" ... That's odd an odd thing to be trying to correct.

But sure, "Big Jim." We can correct that for the sake of the discussion. 🤷‍♂️

 
Tomorrow (Monday) will be day 15 since I left the house last back on Sunday the 15th. But what does that really mean? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I could go out tomorrow and get it from anyone that hasn't been doing the same thing.

Add to that I am in an area where 35% of those tested have tested positive, yes NJ, and it's not a warm fuzzy feeling. NJ, NY and Mi are all way above all other states in the tested/tested positive ratio.

 
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RnR said:
Considering I never once made the statement that scientists are "generally encouraged" ... That's odd an odd thing to be trying to correct.

But sure, "Big Jim." We can correct that for the sake of the discussion. 🤷‍♂️
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You said they can be skeptical and encouraged.... maybe it went over my head, and if so I apologize, but I think maybe others interpreted your comment like I did. Just did not seem like a circular debate being had. Test away, test anything that doesn't do more harm.

 
Penguin said:
Tomorrow (Monday) will be day 15 since I left the house last back on Sunday the 15th. But what does that really mean? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I could go out tomorrow and get it from anyone that hasn't been doing the same thing.

Add to that I am in an area where 35% of those tested have tested positive, yes NJ, and it's not a warm fuzzy feeling. NJ, NY and Mi are all way above all other states in the tested/tested positive ratio.
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You’re right about being able to get it tomorrow. But you did your part for society for 15 days, and that’s not nothing.  Hopefully more people will stay home for the next 15.

 
cashman88 said:
You’re right about being able to get it tomorrow. But you did your part for society for 15 days, and that’s not nothing.  Hopefully more people will stay home for the next 15.
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You're right and I do tell myself, "Hey, you are doing your part", but it's frustrating as I could be holed up for 6 months and the first day i leave some spring break jackolbaiter gets me

 
Penguin said:
You're right and I do tell myself, "Hey, you are doing your part", but it's frustrating as I could be holed up for 6 months and the first day i leave some spring break jackolbaiter gets me
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The idea is not that everyone will avoid infection. Depending on who you listen to, most of the worlds population will be infected.  The idea is to not become infected or spread the infection at its peak.  If you get it in 6 months instead of next week, you’re more likely to have heath care available.

 
-fish- said:
The idea is not that everyone will avoid infection. Depending on who you listen to, most of the worlds population will be infected.  The idea is to not become infected or spread the infection at its peak.  If you get it in 6 months instead of next week, you’re more likely to have heath care available.
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Sad, but true.  This virus is basically saying, "I will get you, and the care you receive will be based on where and when you get me".  I have to assume the later you contract the virus, the better your chances of a good outcome are.

 
Penguin said:
Tomorrow (Monday) will be day 15 since I left the house last back on Sunday the 15th. But what does that really mean? Nothing as far as I am concerned. 
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It means you didnt catch it in the past 15 days.

Buying yourself, and others in your sphere, a little bit more time for this virus to be figured out or medical responses to be more capable of inhibiting any damage.

 
-fish- said:
The idea is not that everyone will avoid infection. Depending on who you listen to, most of the worlds population will be infected.  The idea is to not become infected or spread the infection at its peak.  If you get it in 6 months instead of next week, you’re more likely to have heath care available.
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And I get that, I'm also not terribly worried if/when I do get it but it pisses me off a little how some are really trying and others just don't give a fluck. I get it, it's America and the average American is basically an idiot.

 
Penguin said:
And I get that, I'm also not terribly worried if/when I do get it but it pisses me off a little how some are really trying and others just don't give a fluck. I get it, it's America and the average American is basically an idiot.
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My local Facebook town page is made up of morons.    Today there were several people raging about all of the idiots that were not staying at home.  Thing was, these people weren’t at home either, and  I drove through town twice today.  What I saw were a lot of couples and singles out for walks, a few families together and one guy shooting hoops by himself.

The Facebook posters made it seem like it was business as usual.  It clearly isn’t.  It’s hard to filter the signal from the noise when people overreact.  I didn’t see anything that wasn’t consistent with the idea of social distancing today.  But people were still freaking out about it.  I get that there may be hoards of teens somewhere ignoring the warnings, but it isn’t happening here.  But people are still claiming it is,

I take extremes with a grain of salt.

 
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TheWinz said:
Sad, but true.  This virus is basically saying, "I will get you, and the care you receive will be based on where and when you get me".  I have to assume the later you contract the virus, the better your chances of a good outcome are.
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This is the likely worst case scenario.  We should assume that’s reality, because If we do, it won’t be the unimaginable worst case scenario.  Maybe if we all assume the worst and act accordingly, we get pleasantly surprised by a better outcome.

I’m living like my actions matter even while believing I’m not going to have to check into a hospital at any point.

 
shader said:
Go watch the video Adonis posted.  The recipe for beating this thing is amazingly simple.  And it doesn’t involve a miracle drug that a non scientist is pushing. 
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This x 1000. We’re too used to relying on pills to treat our problems, and ignoring how important prevention through behavioral modification can be.

Hydroxychloroquine might be helpful, based on extremely limited evidence. It’s being used as a therapeutic “hail Mary”, because the risk associated with a short duration course is small. At best, it is complementary to hygiene and containment measures, which will likely need to be continued for months before we are out of the woods.

 
-fish- said:
My local Facebook town page is made up of morons.    Today there were several people raging about all of the idiots that were not staying at home.  Thing was, these people weren’t at home either, and  I drove through town twice today.  What I saw were a lot of couples and singles out for walks, a few families together and one guy shooting hoops by himself.

The Facebook posters made it seem like it was business as usual.  It clearly isn’t.  It’s hard to filter the signal from the noise when people overreact.  I didn’t see anything that wasn’t consistent with the idea of social distancing today.  But people were still freaking out about it.  I get that there may be hoards of teens somewhere ignoring the warnings, but it isn’t happening here.  But people are still claiming it is,

I take extremes with a grain of salt.
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My experience is basically the same as yours.  People in this thread keep saying that nobody is taking this seriously and everybody is still going on like it's business as usual, but that is very clearly not the case in my community.  Obviously I'm not in a position to say that people aren't being stupid elsewhere, but I'm not seeing it here.  One of the few particulars about this outbreak that I got right was my prediction that they would shut down my university and the K-12 schools pretty much simultaneously and that that combination would succeed in getting people's attention -- it did.

 
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing). I quit smoking 20 years ago, I feel like I can overcome this but it feels like I'm trying to climb Everest. Every time I turn around I'm leaning on my hand or scratching my nose or rubbing my eye. Everything you shouldn't be doing now, I've done in triplicate this weekend (aside from licking handrails, I have standards).

 
beer 30 said:
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing).
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Don’t ask me — I’m not even trying to prevent face-touching except when I’m out in public.

My answer, fundamentally, is to have hands so clean at all times that it is safe for me to touch my face, at least at home. At the grocery or at the post office, I’m too self-conscious about it for it to be a concern - yet.

 
Doug B said:
Don’t ask me — I’m not even trying to prevent face-touching except when I’m out in public.

My answer, fundamentally, is to have hands so clean at all times that it is safe for me to touch my face, at least at home. At the grocery or at the post office, I’m too self-conscious about it for it to be a concern - yet.
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That's been my approach so far, keep the paws clean. Do they make a pill for this?

 
beer 30 said:
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing). I quit smoking 20 years ago, I feel like I can overcome this but it feels like I'm trying to climb Everest. Every time I turn around I'm leaning on my hand or scratching my nose or rubbing my eye. Everything you shouldn't be doing now, I've done in triplicate this weekend (aside from licking handrails, I have standards).
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Start trying to walk around with your hands in jacket or pants pockets, whatever is more comfortable naturally. You can also try holding something small in your hands, it could help curb that instinct since your hands will still be doing something. 

These days when I’m out I walk around holding onto my phone and wallet in my pockets like I'm back in Barcelona. 

 
beer 30 said:
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing). I quit smoking 20 years ago, I feel like I can overcome this but it feels like I'm trying to climb Everest. Every time I turn around I'm leaning on my hand or scratching my nose or rubbing my eye. Everything you shouldn't be doing now, I've done in triplicate this weekend (aside from licking handrails, I have standards).
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Dog cone?

 
beer 30 said:
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing). I quit smoking 20 years ago, I feel like I can overcome this but it feels like I'm trying to climb Everest. Every time I turn around I'm leaning on my hand or scratching my nose or rubbing my eye. Everything you shouldn't be doing now, I've done in triplicate this weekend (aside from licking handrails, I have standards).
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my link 

 
excuse what may seem to be a dumb ### question, but ...

how are folks trusting take-out/delivery food?  surely the staff can sneeze or cough or spread it via their hands (even in gloves, yes - lest they change into a fresh pair every 30 seconds).

dying for a friggin pizza, but, what do ya do?  rinse it in sanitizer prior to eating? (<---- sarcasm).

what assurances have been given that this is safe?  best i ascertained was "we can't say it does spread the virus at this time" - not "no, it cannot spread this way"

thanks, i'll hang up n' listen. 

 
otb_lifer said:
excuse what may seem to be a dumb ### question, but ...

how are folks trusting take-out/delivery food?  surely the staff can sneeze or cough or spread it via their hands (even in gloves, yes - lest they change into a fresh pair every 30 seconds).

dying for a friggin pizza, but, what do ya do?  rinse it in sanitizer prior to eating? (<---- sarcasm).

what assurances have been given that this is safe?  best i ascertained was "we can't say it does spread the virus at this time" - not "no, it cannot spread this way"

thanks, i'll hang up n' listen. 
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We bake all the food at 350 for 10 minutes. Said to kill the virus at that temp. Throw all the boxes away immediately. Not ordering any cold stuff like salad or sushi. 

 
beer 30 said:
Alright, help me out here. How the #### do I break the habit of touching my face? There's got to be some method that's helpful aside from wearing a mask 24/7 (which I am close to doing). I quit smoking 20 years ago, I feel like I can overcome this but it feels like I'm trying to climb Everest. Every time I turn around I'm leaning on my hand or scratching my nose or rubbing my eye. Everything you shouldn't be doing now, I've done in triplicate this weekend (aside from licking handrails, I have standards).
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So, I was texting with someone last evening about this. This was a habit I learned a long time ago to help keep me from getting sick all the time.  Now it's just second nature without having to think about it.

It's one of the best habits you can learn. Our hands are filthy. Because everything around us is and we touch so many things on a regular basis.  Try not to think of it as your face being the issue. Think of it as your hands.

Wear gloves in your house. Then you'll realize when you touch your mouth or your eyes. If you hyper focus on it, it'll go away. 

It's one of the good things that could hopefully become a widespread habit for lots of people.

 
otb_lifer said:
excuse what may seem to be a dumb ### question, but ...

how are folks trusting take-out/delivery food?  surely the staff can sneeze or cough or spread it via their hands (even in gloves, yes - lest they change into a fresh pair every 30 seconds).

dying for a friggin pizza, but, what do ya do?  rinse it in sanitizer prior to eating? (<---- sarcasm).

what assurances have been given that this is safe?  best i ascertained was "we can't say it does spread the virus at this time" - not "no, it cannot spread this way"

thanks, i'll hang up n' listen. 
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Someone mentioned putting it in a toaster oven on 350 until the cheese starts bubbling. 

 
beer 30 said:
That's been my approach so far, keep the paws clean. Do they make a pill for this?
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You can't keep your hands clean enough without washing them a hundred times per day. 

If your face itches, at least use the back of your hands or a sleeve. Or the back of a knuckle.

 
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Capella said:
We bake all the food at 350 for 10 minutes. Said to kill the virus at that temp. Throw all the boxes away immediately. Not ordering any cold stuff like salad or sushi. 
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see, that's what i told my gf ... seems logical, but she's very sketchy on it - we are decently stocked on can goods, pasta, rice, cereals, etc ... but sometimes ya just wanna taste something. 

thanks for the tip, had not seen that recommended in any of the digging i did.   :thumbup:

 
otb_lifer said:
excuse what may seem to be a dumb ### question, but ...

how are folks trusting take-out/delivery food?  surely the staff can sneeze or cough or spread it via their hands (even in gloves, yes - lest they change into a fresh pair every 30 seconds).

dying for a friggin pizza, but, what do ya do?  rinse it in sanitizer prior to eating? (<---- sarcasm).

what assurances have been given that this is safe?  best i ascertained was "we can't say it does spread the virus at this time" - not "no, it cannot spread this way"

thanks, i'll hang up n' listen. 
Click to expand...
Someone correct me if I am wrong (like I need to state that amirite? :lol:  ) but "eating the virus" (heckuva band name there, IMO) kills it, no?  What I have done the couple of times we have gotten takeout, once receiving the food, is: 1) open all packages and have all the food items accessible where you only have to touch the food itself 2) hand sanitize or wash hands thoroughly 3) NOMNOMNOM 4) discard packaging 5) repeat step 2  6) profit?

 
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