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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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1 minute ago, shader said:

So when is New York doing their testing and how long do the results take to come in?  If they aren't testing until people show significant symptoms, and if the results take 2-5 days to come in, the lag may not be very long.

Of the 25 or so cases in our church - we did an online taping on 3/13 which created a cluster outbreak amongst the 120 congregants & 80 volunteers - I think not more 4-5 were confirmed by testing. Most of those were tested 3/16-18. After that, maybe 10 or so people went to the ER or Emergent Care, were diagnosed then sent home without testing (younger people with no underlying conditions.) The remaining 10 know they have it and powering through.

Which is nothing but an anecdote, not hard data, but leads me to believe the actual number of cases is wildly underreported.

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

Need to read it a bit more carefully.

If you do that "and cut a hole for your nose".....

The sentence before that.  I have some n95 masks and gave many away but kept some for myself and will use them in the grocery store.  

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4 minutes ago, rick6668 said:

Arrives May 6-8 and April 17-18

At least you'd have the order in before they sell out and before the mad rush sets in.

Also, Amazon is building in possible delays which may or may not happen so you could very well have the items arrive well before those dates. Ordering now still puts you ahead of the vast majority of people.

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12 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:
25 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Another post from the medical community to feel free to share.  As time passes and we're tempted to go out to get that tool we need for a home improvement or a quick grocery run, just another reminder.

I disagree with this.  I wear a mask when I go to the grocery store.  That is not doing it wrong.  

I think that medical professional was mostly venting ... but what exactly is he/she expecting people to do for groceries if going out in a mask is "wrong"?

The mask I've been using on my runs out of the house has been a single N95 mask (link) that I had leftover from a stash I bought in 2013 while doing some mold remediation work. I have a second one for my wife to use still in the plastic wrap.

I guess it would be better than nothing ... but when I started using the mask to go to the grocery, I didn't think hospitals would even want 7-year-old used masks :shrug:  Never occured to me to think of donating these two masks. 7 years old. Would they have taken a pair of old N95 masks three weeks ago?

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6 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

It says I am doing it wrong by wearing a mask to the grocery store in the 2nd paragraph.  

Yeah that notion, stigma, disinformation is rapidly going away. To me the $50 I spent to have these things on hand is well worth it in the event that these things become mandatory at some future date.

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Just now, Redwes25 said:

The sentence before that.  I have some n95 masks and gave many away but kept some for myself and will use them in the grocery store.  

Well, the point is that the community doesn't need N95 masks. She is absolutely right. There is zero need for anyone in the general community to wear them. And that's irrespective of the shortage in hospitals for where they are needed.

They are meant to protect during aersolization of viral particles during certain procedures, none of which happen in a grocery store.

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7 minutes ago, Ben Hur said:

Italy is unique in that they have more people age 75+ than 65-75.  That is basically unheardof.  I'm sure the actual raw stats are out there.  

Italy must have had one hell of a baby boom.

Looks like the estimate for 2020 is around 5.9M of Florida’s 21M residents are 60 or older.

2020 age demographics - FL

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6 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

At least you'd have the order in before they sell out and before the mad rush sets in.

Also, Amazon is building in possible delays which may or may not happen so you could very well have the items arrive well before those dates. Ordering now still puts you ahead of the vast majority of people.

oh, Amazon will get them to me by this coming Friday!!!!

(as long as i shell out the  $69.99 to EXPEDITE!!! yayyyy AMAZON, way to step up!")

:unsure:

Edited by otb_lifer
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5 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I think that medical professional was mostly venting ... but what exactly is he/she expecting people to do for groceries if going out in a mask is "wrong"?

The mask I've been using on my runs out of the house has been a single N95 mask (link) that I had leftover from a stash I bought in 2013 while doing some mold remediation work. I have a second one for my wife to use still in the plastic wrap.

I guess it would be better than nothing ... but when I started using the mask to go to the grocery, I didn't think hospitals would even want 7-year-old used masks :shrug:  Never occured to me to think of donating these two masks. 7 years old. Would they have taken a pair of old N95 masks three weeks ago?

If you have an old one or one you've been using when this first started, then go ahead. But it's not really gaining you anything compared to a regular mask when going to the grocery store. That was the point of that line. 

In particular if you have a stash of new ones and keep using them when they could be used elsewhere with greater need.

N95 masks simply aren't necessary in public. Using regular masks are a good idea and hopefully will become recommended for everyone. Those are 2 different ideas.

Edited by gianmarco
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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Well, the point is that the community doesn't need N95 masks. She is absolutely right. There is zero need for anyone in the general community to wear them. And that's irrespective of the shortage in hospitals for where they are needed.

They are meant to protect during aersolization of viral particles during certain procedures, none of which happen in a grocery store.

I disagree with that.  I don't know where people have been in the grocery store and you can transmit it even if not showing symptoms.  I have asthma as does my son and I am not entering an enclosed space without a mask at this point.  Others can make a different decision but to say a N95 mask doesn't protect you is not correct.  

I bought a 20 pack a max about six months ago to clean some mold in my basement and only used a couple at that time.  I gave most away at a local drive for the hospital but kept a few for these trips. 

Edited by Redwes25
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Just now, [scooter] said:

That's a huge drop. Lowest number of new cases in 2 weeks.

Well technically they are up 3 from yesterday.

 

But yeah, their drop to the 4k range two straight days in a row is good.

Their death rate looks appalling on paper, so we know they've missed a lot of cases

Edited by shader
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6 minutes ago, shader said:

Looks like Italy has 4,053 new cases and 837 new deaths

Crazy this is “good news”

I’m encouraged though that the rate of increase is going down in Italy, Washington, et al.

Distance is the key to our existence. 

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1 hour ago, JaxBill said:

Somebody tell Stacy's Mom

 

@SPIN: Fountains of Wayne Songwriter Adam Schlesinger Hospitalized Due to COVID-19
https://www.spin.com/2020/03/fountains-of-wayne-songwriter-adam-schlesinger-hospitalized-due-to-covid-19/

 

I heard this last night from a friend who’d read it on a Raspberries message board (don’t ask me).  Couldn’t find it anywhere so had hoped it was a baseless rumor.  😢

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13 minutes ago, gianmarco said:
17 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

It says I am doing it wrong by wearing a mask to the grocery store in the 2nd paragraph.  

Need to read it a bit more carefully.

If you do that "and cut a hole for your nose".....

No, Redwe is right -- the "cut hole for your nose" was in a subsequent sentence. The writer does say explicitly that going to the store with an N95 is "doing it wrong". However, it reads like he means that a person just going to get groceries shouldn't have access to an N95 mask right now because medical professionals need N95s masks so desperately right now.

(7 year old N95 masks, too?)

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5 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Others can make a different decision but to say a N95 mask doesn't protect you is not correct

He never said it doesn't protect you. He said it's not necessary, i.e. overkill. 

I'm not saying either one of you is right, or wrong, just clarifying. 

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5 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

I disagree with that.  I don't know where people have been in the grocery store and you can transmit it even if not showing symptoms.  I have asthma as does my son and I am not entering an enclosed space without a mask at this point.  Others can make a different decision but to say a N95 mask doesn't protect you is not correct.  

I bought a 20 pack a max about six months ago to clean some mold in my basement and only used a couple at that time.  I gave most away at a local drive for the hospital but kept a few for these trips. 

You can disagree, but from a medical perspective, she is right as are others telling you the same thing.  You can watch from here that says the exact same thing.

He is absolutely right.  It's not that an N95 doesn't protect.  It's that it's overkill for the protection you need in a grocery store.  A simple mask accomplishes the same thing.  So her basic point is correct.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:
19 minutes ago, rick6668 said:

Arrives May 6-8 and April 17-18

At least you'd have the order in before they sell out and before the mad rush sets in.

Also, Amazon is building in possible delays which may or may not happen so you could very well have the items arrive well before those dates. Ordering now still puts you ahead of the vast majority of people.

Do those masks last at least a full day? Can they be re-used for a few days?

A supply of 50 doesn't get someone very far in the "return to work & business" world if they have to be changed frequently. And at a point, it gets too expensive for most people to stockpile hundred or thousands. If I can use one mask to go to work all week (assuming I'm not soiling it myself by coughing/sneezing) ... then that's a lot better.

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Do those masks last at least a full day? Can they be re-used for a few days?

A supply of 50 doesn't get someone very far in the "return to work & business" world if they have to be changed frequently. And at a point, it gets too expensive for most people to stockpile hundred or thousands. If I can use one mask to go to work all week (assuming I'm not soiling it myself by coughing/sneezing) ... then that's a lot better.

They're single use so people need to plan accordingly to their needs and buy what they think they'll need to get by. There are some washables on the market though. I suppose someone could "stretch" the life on these basic ones to a couple days or so and that would be better than nothing.

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1 minute ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So what mask IS appropriate for walking around locally, in a store, etc?  Is one of those homemade things good?

Any simple face mask (surgical mask) is appropriate.  Yes, any of the homemade masks are good.  And would be encouraged at this point.

Also keep in mind that the mask, while providing some layer of protection, is more keeping you from touching your face and acquiring the virus through contact than it is keeping things you "breathe" out.  There is not enough aerosolization of viral particles in a grocery store or other public places where a mask that filters these particles is necessary.  There just isn't.  Unless someone walked up to you and sneezed directly into your face.

A final note about N95 masks.  They actually have to be sized correctly to function as intended.  Fit tests are necessary that no air comes in or out of the side of the mask and that also involves making sure the metal band is positioned correctly.  You also can't have any facial hair.  Most people wearing an N95 don't know this or wear it properly and then it's no different than a regular surgical mask as linked above.

 

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8 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

He is absolutely right.  It's not that an N95 doesn't protect.  It's that it's overkill for the protection you need in a grocery store.  A simple mask accomplishes the same thing.  So her basic point is correct.

Now ... to procure that simple mask. I'd rather wear an earloop mask vs. the N95, but the latter was all I had on hand :shrug: 

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8 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

You can disagree, but from a medical perspective, she is right as are others telling you the same thing.  You can watch from here that says the exact same thing.

He is absolutely right.  It's not that an N95 doesn't protect.  It's that it's overkill for the protection you need in a grocery store.  A simple mask accomplishes the same thing.  So her basic point is correct.

CDC is also about to change guidance - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/2020/03/30/6a3e495c-7280-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

The issue is we don't have enough masks for people.  Not that it doesn't protect someone.    

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7 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Do those masks last at least a full day? Can they be re-used for a few days?

A supply of 50 doesn't get someone very far in the "return to work & business" world if they have to be changed frequently. And at a point, it gets too expensive for most people to stockpile hundred or thousands. If I can use one mask to go to work all week (assuming I'm not soiling it myself by coughing/sneezing) ... then that's a lot better.

It depends how long you are wearing it. If you’re wearing it for 30 minutes while you are in the store, one mask can last a while. If you’re wearing it all day at work, then even if you aren’t sneezing and coughing you are still soiling it with the moisture from your breathing. I don’t think you will want to wear the same one all week.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

They're single use so people need to plan accordingly to their needs and buy what they think they'll need to get by. There are some washables on the market though. I suppose someone could "stretch" the life on these basic ones to a couple days or so and that would be better than nothing.

What makes a mask go bad (other than if it is damaged physically)?   Isn't wearing anything better than nothing - for those that want to wear something?  If you wear a single use mask for a week, provided it doesn't break in some way, what is the problem?  The germs on the inside are already from you so you already have whatever you are spewing out.   If you aren't face to face with someone else that is coughing at your mask and you just keep your 6' distance shouldn't the mask "last" for a long time?

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2 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

CDC is also about to change guidance - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/2020/03/30/6a3e495c-7280-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

The issue is we don't have enough masks for people.  Not that it doesn't protect someone.    

My key takeaways from that article

 

CDC guidance on masks remains under development, the federal official said. The official said the new guidance would make clear that the general public should not use medical masks — including surgical and N95 masks — that are in desperately short supply and needed by health-care workers.

Instead, the recommendation under consideration calls for using do-it-yourself cloth coverings, according to a second official who shared that thinking on a personal Facebook account. It would be a way to help “flatten the curve,” the official noted.

Such DIY cloth masks would potentially lower the risk that the wearer, if infected, would transmit the virus to other people. Current CDC guidance is that healthy people don’t need masks or face coverings.

 

That, and the fact that "Officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are considering"

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7 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

CDC is also about to change guidance - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/2020/03/30/6a3e495c-7280-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

The issue is we don't have enough masks for people.  Not that it doesn't protect someone.    

Sigh.

I know what the change is and it's a good recommendation.

I don't know if you're not understanding what I'm saying or not, but I am NOT saying not to wear a mask (nor was the author of that post).  Please, wear a mask.  And if the only mask you have is an N95, then wear it.  If you have old ones lying around from previous projects like @Doug B, then please wear it.  It doesn't matter if it's worn out because that's not the function it's serving anyway.

What I AM saying (and what she was as well) is that you don't need an N95 mask, even with your asthma.  You certainly don't need to keep putting on new N95 masks for trips.  A simple face mask is all you need.  If you have new and unused N95 masks, they should be in the hands of medical providers. 

Even from your link above, here is a quote:

Quote

 

The official said the new guidance would make clear that the general public should not use medical masks — including surgical and N95 masks — that are in desperately short supply and needed by health-care workers.

 

Even seeing people with possible or suspected COVID, medical providers are not putting on N95 masks for those initial interactions unless looking to perform a procedure (resuscitation, aerosolization, etc.) during the interaction.

Edited by gianmarco
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3 minutes ago, Gally said:

What makes a mask go bad (other than if it is damaged physically)?   Isn't wearing anything better than nothing - for those that want to wear something?  If you wear a single use mask for a week, provided it doesn't break in some way, what is the problem?  The germs on the inside are already from you so you already have whatever you are spewing out.   If you aren't face to face with someone else that is coughing at your mask and you just keep your 6' distance shouldn't the mask "last" for a long time?

Right as far as I know. Like @gianmarco said above, perhaps the biggest benefit of these things is the simple step of preventing the wearer from touching their nose and mouth. Adding the gloves for me also means I'm not touching my eyes with those things on.

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25 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Well, the point is that the community doesn't need N95 masks. She is absolutely right. There is zero need for anyone in the general community to wear them. And that's irrespective of the shortage in hospitals for where they are needed.

They are meant to protect during aersolization of viral particles during certain procedures, none of which happen in a grocery store.

 

21 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

I disagree with that.  I don't know where people have been in the grocery store and you can transmit it even if not showing symptoms.  I have asthma as does my son and I am not entering an enclosed space without a mask at this point.  Others can make a different decision but to say a N95 mask doesn't protect you is not correct.  

I bought a 20 pack a max about six months ago to clean some mold in my basement and only used a couple at that time.  I gave most away at a local drive for the hospital but kept a few for these trips. 

We might need a deciding judge here and I'm not the right person. These posts confuse me and I want to share what I feel as I'm reading them. 

GianMarco has had some incredible posts. I don't know for sure if they are all true but I haven't seen many dispute his facts other than "I don't feel"

At the same time, you read Redwes25 and I immediately think if that were me, I would handle it the same way. See even if GM is right, Red isn't comfortable going into the grocery store and I don't blame him. How is what he posts that much further on the spectrum from someone that needs an emotional support dog? He isn't comfortable going anywhere that he feels he might be exposed to germs and what if he followed what Gian is suggesting and caught the CV-19 vs if he catches it while still wearing a mask he feels he exhausted as many options or safety precautions as he could. 

I don't really need to lock my doors at night, but I do because I want to sleep in peace. There is a place for each of these ideas and posts but they contradict each other and yet I still understand how both must feel. 

Cheers

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

Sigh.

I know what the change is and it's a good recommendation.

I don't know if you're not understanding what I'm saying or not, but I am NOT saying not to wear a mask (nor was the author of that post).  Please, wear a mask.  And if the only mask you have is an N95, then wear it.  If you have old ones lying around from previous projects like @Doug B, then please wear it.  It doesn't matter if it's worn out because that's not the function it's serving anyway.

What I AM saying (and what she was as well) is that you don't need an N95 mask, even with your asthma.  You certainly don't need to keep putting on new N95 masks for trips.  A simple face mask is all you need.  If you have new and unused N95 masks, they should be in the hands of medical providers. 

Even from your link above, here is a quote:

Even seeing people with possible or suspected COVID, medical providers are not putting on N95 masks for those interactions. 

You clearly haven't been reading my posts since I said I gave away most of mine which were laying around from previous project but kept a few.  However, they do protect you and to say otherwise is not correct.  You can argue that it is overkill but it does protect you.  

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I just ordered these on Amazon to have a reusable option on hand. Showing a very reasonable arrival time as well...

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYQNV6Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No, they're not n95 level protection but again better than nothing. If you wear these things, you're not touching nose and mouth with bare hand. Combine that with proper hand washing for when you take them off, and you're cutting out a big chunk of the risk factor.

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6 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

You clearly haven't been reading my posts since I said I gave away most of mine which were laying around from previous project but kept a few.  However, they do protect you and to say otherwise is not correct.  You can argue that it is overkill but it does protect you.  

I saw that you donated them.  I read it and thank you. 

Yes, they protect you.  But they aren't protecting you from anything you are being exposed to in the grocery store.  You can argue that point as much as you'd like but it's just not true.  The only level of protection that mask is providing you over a simple face mask while in the grocery store would be if you decided to perform CPR on a COVID person while out OR if you had someone decide to stand right in front of you and sneeze/cough directly into your face.  And even then, as you aren't wearing goggles, that N95 still isn't protecting you fully.  You're just as high of a risk to contract it during due to a lack of protective eyewear as you would be if you didn't have your N95. 

You can wear a hazmat suit as well.  And it will protect you.  But not from anything you'll be getting in the grocery store.  There is NOTHING in the store that is happening that the N95 is protecting you from that a simple face mask isn't also protecting you from. 

Do as you please moving forward.  My post here isn't just for you but for others as well in an attempt to curb misinformation.  You do not need an N95 mask in public. 

Edited by gianmarco
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Just now, bradyfan said:

That was from yesterday 

Cuomo never backs down but he’s very good at responding evenly and without too much emotion. He’s passionate about getting through this crisis but he’ll praise Trump when he does right by NY and he’ll offer criticism when he’s in doing disagreement. But overall he’s done a good job of not engaging in pettiness. Straight forward and to the point. Forget red or white, it’s red, white & blue - work together in partnership, save the politics for another time.

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Just now, gianmarco said:

I saw that you donated them.  I read it and thank you. 

Yes, they protect you.  But they aren't protecting you from anything you are being exposed to in the grocery store.  You can argue that point as much as you'd like but it's just not true.  The only level of protection that mask is providing you over a simple face mask while in the grocery store would be if you decided to perform CPR on a COVID person while out OR if you had someone decide to stand right in front of you and sneeze/cough directly into your face.  And even then, as you aren't wearing goggles, that N95 still isn't protecting you fully.

You can wear a hazmat suit as well.  And it will protect you.  But not from anything you'll be getting in the grocery store.  There is NOTHING in the store that is happening that the N95 is protecting you from that a simple face mask isn't also protecting you from. 

Do as you please moving forward.  My post here isn't just for you but for others as well in an attempt to curb misinformation.  You do not need an N95 mask in public. 

I am going to disagree with you on this one especially some of the reports re: virus surviving in the air.  You can take the precautions you want but to say it doesn't protect you is not accurate statement.  I agree it is probably overkill but given my Asthma I think it is better to be safe then to get sick given I am high risk.  

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3 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

How about something like this?

We have a bunch of these at home we use for fishing. Basically a buff like they wear on Survivor. I can wrap this thing twice around my mouth and nose - I use these also in the winter for running in the cold to protect my face and ears.

Would these be ok for those grocery runs?

Yep, those would work just fine. 

Anything that:

1)  Assuming you have coronavirus, keeps you from spreading any droplets anywhere

2)  Keeps you from touching your face

will work just fine.  If we all wear these masks in public (which is the basis of this potential new recommendation) we will limit the spread from people without symptoms as well as decrease our chances of touching something and then infecting ourselves.  We are not walking around catching coronavirus from breathing in stuff around us provided we practice social distancing (stay 6 feet apart).

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Unless you're a health professional providing care to Covid patients, anything is better than nothing. Anything you wear that will prevent you from touching something out in public and then placing bare hand to nose or mouth, or will prevent a droplet from landing in your nose or mouth, will greatly reduce your risk of spread. Remember not to take your hands to your eyes though. That's why I have the gloves as well because there's no way I'm bringing my fingers to my eyes with those on.

The big pushback right now is that they give you a false sense of security. That's nonsense as long as you don't have a false sense of security. I don't think people wearing masks are running around hugging everyone in sight. Wash your hands and stay away from close proximity to people in addition to wearing these things.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I just ordered these on Amazon to have a reusable option on hand. Showing a very reasonable arrival time as well...

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYQNV6Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No, they're not n95 level protection but again better than nothing. If you wear these things, you're not touching nose and mouth with bare hand. Combine that with proper hand washing for when you take them off, and you're cutting out a big chunk of the risk factor.

Hurry -- they're down to two left in stock  :kicksrock: 

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2 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

Mississippi with it's first shelter in place order........for one county (Lauderdale). 

There are something like 5 other counties in the state with more cases.

I’m disturbed by what I’ve read about their governors response 

This pandemic is like  Groundhog Day except each scene is from a different country. Italy didn’t learn from the Far East, Spain didn’t learn from Italy, the U.K. didn’t learn from the EU, various states have not learned from Washington state or New York. On and on and on it goes...

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