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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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30 minutes ago, jamny said:

All I have is a pack of dust type masks in the garage. I think there's like 5 or 6 in the pack.

Dust mask is fine.  It'll keep you from touching you nose/mouth.  (obv I don't rate the inhalation of aerosols at the grocery store to be a major risk - I know others here very much do).  Just don't rub your eyes.

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13 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Major outbreak on the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) - 200 cases & climbing

Its been 30+ years for me but CVNs usually have a crew around 5,000

One thing that troubles me is that an insane proportion of Navy enlisted are vapers.  That can't be good for lung health to begin with, and with COVID I just dunno.  We shall see.

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The Czech Republic and Slovakia have mandated the wearing of masks in public...

Czechs get to work making masks after government decree

 

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The Czech Republic and neighbouring Slovakia are the only two countries in Europe to impose mandatory mask-wearing, the supposed benefits of which – although endorsed by the World Health Organization – are disputed by some.

 

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“The Czech Republic is one of the few in Europe that has significantly slowed down the spread of the virus,” the narrator says. “The main difference is that everyone who has to leave their house has to wear a mask.”

 

They haven't supplied masks to their citizens but a massive initiative to help people make them at home has been ongoing.

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2 hours ago, pollardsvision said:

Still trying to get the details on this and figure out the best way to go. 

Anybody know about companies with employees that got laid off and signed up for unemployment for a week or two? Would they still qualify for this (when brought back)?

And is it true that it all starts as a loan, but if you meet certain criteria it becomes forgiven? That concerns me. I understand why, but still don't like the risk that one screw up in process would mean debt.

In the backdrop of some generous unemployment, I'm not sure which way to go.

I believe the loan is forgiven if you bring back laid off employees by June 30th but don’t quote me on it

There are some good links in the small business thread 

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Btw, here is an EXCELLENT article detailing how some viral infections can spread and how it relates to coronavirus. 

It describes it very well in relatively good laymen's terms.  It talks about how/why measels is so incredibly contagious.  It also describes what an aerosol is and how it can spread disease.

As it talks about, it is incredibly unlikely this is spread by aerosols.  Yes, it might happen, but at such an infrequent rate as to not be considered a mode of transmission for the general public.  If it was passed that way, these numbers would actually be way, way worse than what they are.

When a new virus blasts out of the animals that harbored it and into people, experts can usually say, thank goodness it’s not like measles. That virus is more contagious than any others known to science: Each case of measles causes an astronomical 12 to 18 new cases, compared to about six for polio, smallpox, and rubella. Each case of the new coronavirus is estimated to cause two to three others.

The reason the measles is so, well, viral, is that the microbe is so small and hardy that it is able to stay suspended in the air where an infected person coughed or sneezed for up to two hours, making it one of the only viruses that can exist as a true aerosol.

Now there are conflicting reports on whether the new coronavirus can. The studies suggesting that it can be aerosolized are only preliminary, and other research contradicts it, finding no aerosolized coronavirus particles in the hospital rooms of Covid-19 patients.

The weight of the evidence suggests that the new coronavirus can exist as an aerosol — a physics term meaning a liquid or solid (the virus) suspended in a gas (like air) — only under very limited conditions, and that this transmission route is not driving the pandemic. But “limited” conditions does not mean “no” conditions, underlining the need for health care workers to have high levels of personal protection, especially when doing procedures such as intubation that have the greatest chance of creating coronavirus aerosols. “I think the answer will be, aerosolization occurs rarely but not never,” said microbiologist and physician Stanley Perlman of the University of Iowa. “You have to distinguish between what’s possible and what’s actually happening.”

There are two ways a coronavirus can be transmitted via air.

In droplet form, the coronavirus is airborne for a few seconds after someone sneezes or coughs. It’s able to travel only a short distance before gravitational forces pull it down. Someone close enough for the virus particles to reach in that brief period can therefore be infected. So can anyone who comes into contact with virus-containing droplets that fall onto a surface. The new coronavirus can survive on surfaces for several hours; hence the importance of hand-washing after touching a surface in a public place.

An aerosol is a wholly different physical state: Particles are held in the air by physical and chemical forces. Fog is an aerosol; water droplets are suspended in air. The suspended particles remain for hours or more, depending on factors such as heat and humidity. If virus particles, probably on droplets of mucus or saliva, can be suspended in air for more than a few seconds, as the measles virus can, then anyone passing through that pathogenic cloud could become infected.

There are strong reasons to doubt that the new coronavirus has anything close to that capability.

“If it could easily exist as an aerosol, we would be seeing much greater levels of transmission,” said epidemiologist Michael LeVasseur of Drexel University. “And we would be seeing a different pattern in who’s getting infected. With droplet spread, it’s mostly to close contacts. But if a virus easily exists as an aerosol, you could get it from people you share an elevator with.”

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that is not happening. Earlier this month, CDC scientists reported that the rate of symptomatic infection among a patient’s household members was 10.5%. The rate among other close contacts was 0.45%. In the case of one particular patient, none of his five household members, although continuously exposed to the patient during the time he was isolated at home, tested positive for the virus.

Even if the virus infects only a small fraction of those who come into contact with it, the extremely low rate among close contacts and the absence of infections in some household members of patients suggests that it rarely exists as an aerosol in most real-world situations.

“It’s more evidence that [Covid-19] is predominantly spread through droplets and not as an aerosol,” LeVasseur said.

Physical evidence bolsters that epidemiological reasoning. When researchers in Singapore tested the air in the rooms of three Covid-19 patients, they found no virus particles on cleaned surfaces or in the air even when they took samples on days the patients were symptomatic and presumably shedding virus into the air, they reported this month in the Journal of the American Medical Association. In the room of the third patient, who shed more virus, virus particles were present on ventilation fans and numerous surfaces — but all air samples were negative.

That suggests that aerosolized virus particles are, at worst, rare in real-world conditions.

A study by virologist Ke Lan of Wuhan University and his colleagues found that “rare” does not mean “never,” however. They took 35 air samples at two hospitals as well as public areas in Wuhan, where the Covid-19 outbreak apparently started. They found no coronavirus in intensive care areas where Covid-19 patients were being treated, in general patient rooms, in hallways, or outside the hospitals.

But coronavirus aerosols were found near patients’ toilets in Wuchang Fangcang Field Hospital. That wasn’t a total shock: Receptors for coronavirus exist not only in the airways but also in the gastrointestinal tract, so cells there can become infected, shedding virus into fecal material. The paper, posted to a preprint site, has not been peer-reviewed.

“The virus aerosol,” the Wuhan scientists concluded, “is a potential transmission pathway.” Since aerosols can come directly from patients as well as from stirring up droplets that landed on surfaces, “effective sanitization is critical in minimizing aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2,” the Covid-19-causing coronavirus.

Because real-world studies like these have numerous confounding conditions, scientists at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases examined what can happen under controlled lab conditions, although somewhat artificial, worst-case ones.

NIAID virologist Vincent Munster and his colleagues used a nebulizer — a device that creates an aerosol from liquids — to release samples into the air of both the new coronavirus and the one that caused the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s. They reported detecting viable virus 
in aerosols for up to three hours. That compared to the four hours that active virus particles were found on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard, and up to two or three days on plastic and stainless steel.

Both the Covid-19 and the SARS viruses had an aerosol half-life of 1.1 hours, meaning half the particles drop out of the air after that amount of time, and half of what remains drop out after another 1.1 hours. After a day, roughly nine half-lives, 0.002 (0.2 of 1%) of the original particles remain. As a result, the scientists said, “aerosol … transmission of [the new coronavirus] is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours.”

Scientists not involved in the study raised a couple of concerns: whether the mechanical nebulizer simulates coughs or sneezes, and whether the lab conditions reflect the real world.

The NIAID study “is measuring virus under ideal conditions and with a lot of virus,” said microbiologist Benjamin tenOever of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. “So their results are all likely to be overestimates. That said, I think those values should at least be used to let people know that things like subway poles can harbor virus for more time than I would have considered possible,” because an aerosol that encounters a solid object can stick to it. “Washing hands is more important than ever.”

“We’ve seen no evidence that aerosolized virus is the primary transmission risk for everyday people in everyday settings,” said Dylan Morris of Princeton University, a co-author of the study. “One should not rule anything out categorically with a novel, still-poorly-understood virus, [but] based on what we know about coughing and sneezing, one should be cautiously optimistic that aerosolization may not play a big role in everyday transmission.”

Iowa’s Perlman said the nebulizer may mimic what occurs during procedures such as intubation. That’s why the World Health Organization recommends the use of respirators, gowns, and other extensive protection for medical workers performing such procedures on Covid-19 patients.

Doctors at Kaiser Permanente in California, in a paper published in JAMA on Friday, also note that while the new coronavirus is “primarily spread by droplets,” certain medical procedures can make it airborne — as an aerosol — and therefore require extra protection for health care workers and, ideally, negative pressure rooms.

The behavior of the SARS virus during the 2003 epidemic offers some clues about any risk from aerosol forms of its cousin.

One puzzling outbreak, with 329 cases, occurred at a Hong Kong apartment complex whose residents had not been in close contact with each other. A 2014 analysis concluded that “airborne spread was the most likely explanation, and the SARS coronavirus could have spread over a distance of 200 meters,” or about 600 feet, apparently starting with a SARS patient who had diarrhea.

The 329 Hong Kong cases, another analysis concluded, suggest that although SARS was primarily spread by droplets, “to a much limited degree [it was also spread] by aerosols.” The aerosolization likely originated “from malfunctioning sewers in the building.”

The much-discussed hope that warmer, more humid weather will strangle the Covid-19 pandemic may or may not pan out, but there are solid data that it will make a difference to any aerosol transmission. The SARS virus survived better at 30% to 50% relative humidity than at 80%, with a half-life of only three hours rather than 27 hours at 30% humidity. Other research has also found that coronaviruses have much more difficulty existing in aerosol form in warm, humid conditions.

That reflects the fact that the SARS virus has an “envelope” that falls apart in warmer, more humid conditions. The new coronavirus has a similar envelope.

The World Health Organization has studied the emerging data on coronavirus aerosols to see if it needs to change its current recommendations, including that that healthy people do not need face masks. “, and healthcare workers should take extra precautions during procedures that can generate aerosols. “From the available studies that we have seen, we are confident that the guidance we have is appropriate,” Maria Van Kerkhove, WHO’s technical lead for the coronavirus response, told reporters on Monday.

Edited by gianmarco
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My friend here in CA has received her first unemployment check. There was no phone call nor requirement to sign up for cal-jobs. 

No 600 added yet. Not sure if it'll be retroactive or not.

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41 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

How about something like this?

We have a bunch of these at home we use for fishing. Basically a buff like they wear on Survivor. I can wrap this thing twice around my mouth and nose - I use these also in the winter for running in the cold to protect my face and ears.

Would these be ok for those grocery runs?

Gaiters, scarves, bandannas, balaclavas, fukumens.. .:ph34r:

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Juuuust as I was going to explore the Whole Foods/Amazon Prime option- strike.

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Employees at Whole Foods Market nationwide executed a work stoppage Tuesday, while a former employee at parent company Amazon considered legal action after his dismissal for participation in a labor walkout Monday.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

Mississippi with it's first shelter in place order........for one county (Lauderdale). 

There are something like 5 other counties in the state with more cases.

Thats Meridian, MS.   Word is they had an outbreak in a nursing home.   Their cases jumped from 5 to 35 over night.  The gov went ahead and said to expect more shelter orders.  Glad leadership is stepping up and taking things seriously now.  So many kids still running around our neighborhood with each other.  

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Wow. 

Louisiana numbers today:

197 new hospitalizations (1355 total)

53 new on vents (438 total)

54 new deaths (239 total)

4934 new tests complete (38967 total)

1212 new positives (5237 total)

for a 24.6% positive rate, the biggest one-day positive rate yet (since I've been tracking it, almost a week now)

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

That was from yesterday 

Cuomo never backs down but he’s very good at responding evenly and without too much emotion. He’s passionate about getting through this crisis but he’ll praise Trump when he does right by NY and he’ll offer criticism when he’s in doing disagreement. But overall he’s done a good job of not engaging in pettiness. Straight forward and to the point. Forget red or white, it’s red, white & blue - work together in partnership, save the politics for another time.

It's easy to do this when you're given a pass (or downright adoration) from a fawning press.

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30 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I believe the loan is forgiven if you bring back laid off employees by June 30th but don’t quote me on it

There are some good links in the small business thread 

check out the small business thread on page 1 ffa.  i’m trying to cull all my resources together.

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

This pandemic is like  Groundhog Day except each scene is from a different country. Italy didn’t learn from the Far East, Spain didn’t learn from Italy, the U.K. didn’t learn from the EU, various states have not learned from Washington state or New York. On and on and on it goes...

So true.

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4 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Arizona Governor issued a shelter in place yesterday.  We have good supply of food and I am working from home but I need to find out the details.  I am sure I will need to make a grocery store run in a week.

where in AZ are you?

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3 minutes ago, Ben Hur said:

Anyone got a DIY mask thing that you can sew?  My kids got a legit sewing machine off craigslist to do something or other ages ago.  

Man, that is an excellent thought.  Keeps the kids busy with something that will be a productive use of their time.  Great thinking.

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2 hours ago, Doug B said:

I think that medical professional was mostly venting ... but what exactly is he/she expecting people to do for groceries if going out in a mask is "wrong"?

The mask I've been using on my runs out of the house has been a single N95 mask (link) that I had leftover from a stash I bought in 2013 while doing some mold remediation work. I have a second one for my wife to use still in the plastic wrap.

I guess it would be better than nothing ... but when I started using the mask to go to the grocery, I didn't think hospitals would even want 7-year-old used masks :shrug:  Never occured to me to think of donating these two masks. 7 years old. Would they have taken a pair of old N95 masks three weeks ago?

Can't imagine they would touch anything that's been opened.

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1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

“The Czech Republic is one of the few in Europe that has significantly slowed down the spread of the virus,” the narrator says. “The main difference is that everyone who has to leave their house has to wear a mask.”

That's misleading. Makes it sound like everyone wearing a mask is the main reason the spread has slowed, yet they just now set the policy that everyone must wear them and everyone doesn't even have one yet. They can't know if it will have any significant impact. 

Note, I'm not saying you're misleading, I"m saying the quote in the Guardian link - or maybe even in their video - is misleading.

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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Maybe make it a condition of unemployment???  Maybe you're right and it is feasible and I'm just jaded about what the federal government could pull off successfully.

Regarding your first statement, many people are disappointed they aren't furloughed and are making less than their peers who were furloughed.

I would do anything to be back at my job living check to check and I hate my job. This furlough sucks but I understand its for the better good. I am getting tired of hearing about billionaires being bailed out while I could lose everything in a month.

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1 minute ago, falguy said:

That's misleading. Makes it sound like everyone wearing a mask is the main reason the spread has slowed, yet they just now set the policy that everyone must wear them and everyone doesn't even have one yet. They can't know if it will have any significant impact. 

Note, I'm not saying you're misleading, I"m saying the quote in the Guardian link - or maybe even in their video - is misleading.

Saw a graph this morning showing countries using mask and not using a mask in their lockdowns. It was a significant difference

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4 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/rkhamsi/status/1244674904903090186

Doubt much of this is news to anyone, but good thread here on masks, 'droplets' vs. aerosols, and covid transmission in 'masked' vs. 'non-masked' countries.  Seems like WHO was being incredibly reckless by downplaying airborne transmission.  

They were reckless and this is just the latest example. Regardless of what level of proof people are seeking about the usefulness of masks, they certainly can't hurt if used in conjunction with distancing and proper hand washing. But the upside is much greater than that.

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2 hours ago, krista4 said:

I heard this last night from a friend who’d read it on a Raspberries message board (don’t ask me).  Couldn’t find it anywhere so had hoped it was a baseless rumor.  😢

But I really want to ask.

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3 minutes ago, prosopis said:

I would do anything to be back at my job living check to check and I hate my job. This furlough sucks but I understand its for the better good. I am getting tired of hearing about billionaires being bailed out while I could lose everything in a month.

Are there any grocery stores and such nearby where you could apply just to keep something rolling in during the meantime?

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3 minutes ago, falguy said:

That's misleading. Makes it sound like everyone wearing a mask is the main reason the spread has slowed, yet they just now set the policy that everyone must wear them and everyone doesn't even have one yet. They can't know if it will have any significant impact. 

Note, I'm not saying you're misleading, I"m saying the quote in the Guardian link - or maybe even in their video - is misleading.

I was confused by that as well, no issue with you pointing it out. Look at @ren hoek's recent link. It appears that countries promoting use of masks have had far lower spread.

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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Maybe make it a condition of unemployment???  Maybe you're right and it is feasible and I'm just jaded about what the federal government could pull off successfully.

Regarding your first statement, many people are disappointed they aren't furloughed and are making less than their peers who were furloughed.

Maybe their employer should pay a living wage so that they wouldn't have to go on unemployment to receive a living income. 

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7 minutes ago, falguy said:

That's misleading. Makes it sound like everyone wearing a mask is the main reason the spread has slowed, yet they just now set the policy that everyone must wear them and everyone doesn't even have one yet. They can't know if it will have any significant impact. 

Note, I'm not saying you're misleading, I"m saying the quote in the Guardian link - or maybe even in their video - is misleading.

Agreed.

Also, I know this whole mask thing is getting close to getting beaten to death here, but for me, the greatest benefit to everyone wearing a mask out in public is to stop those with the virus from spreading it more freely and NOT to keep those who are wearing the mask from getting it due to wearing the mask. 

In other words, let's assume you have 50,000 people and half of them have the virus.  You also only have 25,000 masks.  If we knew which people had the virus and which didn't and everyone was out and about, it would be far more helpful to have the 25,000 with the virus wearing the masks than vice versa.  And that's, of course, in conjunction with practicing social distancing, good handwashing, and avoiding face contact. 

In lieu of universal testing with contact tracing and quarantining, universal mask wearing in public is a great alternative.  But EVERYONE has to do it.  It goes back to the notion of assuming you are infectious and behave in a manner that you don't spread it to others, not assuming you don't have it and trying to avoid it.

A final thought:  I'm not in any way trying to weigh this thread down by beating a subject to death.  My attempt with these posts (and others) is to try and convey the information that is important, clarify it, and help some of you wade through the noise.  There's lots out there to read from this thread, the news, your social media, etc. and it can be overwhelming.  I'm trying to help filter out what isn't helpful (or even harmful) while keeping people safe and helping spread the word on what we can all do to try and get through this.  If it feels like I'm going past that point, I'll dial some of this back as this thread is really useful for a lot of people, I hope.

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1 hour ago, CurlyNight said:

My friend here in CA has received her first unemployment check. There was no phone call nor requirement to sign up for cal-jobs. 

No 600 added yet. Not sure if it'll be retroactive or not.

How long ago did she apply?

I applied in Az and I have not received any notice of anything. Not even an email. I am just hoping I did it right.

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7 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

Maybe their employer should pay a living wage so that they wouldn't have to go on unemployment to receive a living income. 

What is your definition of a living wage?  $15 an hour nets is $35K.  Unemployment is going to be close to $40-50K and you don't have to work 40 hours.

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4 hours ago, shader said:

If we have comprehensive and quick testing, it's not so difficult.  When someone tests positive we quickly quarantine them, determine everyone they've come into contact with, test them all.  It requires quick testing and also requires teams of people that can do contact tracing.

That's why I'm heavily invested in ABT

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