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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (6 Viewers)

Joe Bryant said:
Asking here one time today, please be cool to each other. Tiring of it to be honest. 
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honest question:  I don't see anyone not being cool.   there's one person who continues to push the "it's just the flu" theory, which many people would like to see stop, but I don't see anyone being mean.   what exactly is objectionable about today's discussion?

 
shader said:
I think everyone can agree that a plan is needed.  But who is going to step up to the plate and create one?  You really have to feel for all the decision makers involved.  It's easy to get on a message board and claim that everyone is doing everything wrong...

But it's much more difficult to make a decision that could lead to a 2nd wave and many deaths.  I think people are scared out of their minds to open it back up, and for good reason.
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I can't make this political, but yes, people need national leadership. I'm not sure where that comes from would hope it comes from the brightest minds of our nation. Will that happen? I have no idea. If experts believe a dangerous second wave is coming, I'd expect them to be capable to formulate a plan with living in that outcome, not just hiding out. This is a virus, there has to be a way to formulate a national plan the addresses protection from it other than staying inside for years. I'd think it should start with civilian PPE requirements and the production and availability of that PPE. The fact that the Feds aren't on a war footing to increase PPE production, even for frontline workers, is disturbing. The free market can only do so much in a crisis like this. I can't even get Clorox wipes so not holding out hope even a simple "PPE for everyone" plan would work, but I do think it's the easiest and most cost effective first step in living in the now.

 
Statorama said:
Dr. Fauci about to be fired?

Fauci is trying to do a little revisionist history in his various press tours and I think it's rubbing people (or a person) the wrong way.

From a February 29th interview:

PETER ALEXANDER, TODAY SHOW CO-HOST: Dr. Fauci, it’s Saturday morning in America. People are waking up with real concerns about this. They want to go to malls, to movies, and maybe the gym. Should we be changing our habits, and if so, how?

FAUCI: Right now at this moment there is no need to change anything you’re doing on a day by day basis.
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On February 29th, the U.S. had 24 confirmed cases -- almost all of whom were repatriated American citizens who contracted the virus overseas. The State of Washington, on February 29th, announced it's first death from COVID-19 -- the first patient of the Kirkland long-term care home to pass away. Two more from the Kirkland home that passed away on February 26th were confirmed to have died of COVID-19 on March 3rd. The first two confirmed cases of community spread in the Seattle area were identified on February 28th and announced to the public the following day.

Given that, I don't have a problem with what Dr. Fauci said on February 29th, most especially because he couched it as information that could and would change rapidly - "Right now, at this moment". He wasn't speaking for the foreseeable future or anything like that. He wasn't making a prediction about even the near future.

Additionally, at that moment, there was still hope that contact tracing was a viable counter -- February 29th was the day the FDA blanket approved privately-produced tests in the wake of the CDC's "bad test" fiasco.

 
Statorama said:
Bars....not so much.  Restaurants could move to a temporary 'reservations only' policy and limit the number of patrons (if it made business sense to do so).
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Would love to see outdoor seating only for bars/restaurants sometime soon, especially here in the South. Of course, please open the beaches and boat ramps (i can't currently kayak alone), but just enforce the social distancing. Or just open for locals to keep tourists out.

 
The Commish said:
We are STILL in the "we don't know what we don't know" portion of this whole thing which gets that much more mind boggling every single day.  This is where we're stuck.  I know one thing for certain, I don't care what the government says.  We will make decisions for our family as a family and based on what we think is correct.  If my Governor thinks it's ok to open schools, my kids aren't going back to school.  They will have to come to my house and arrest me.  They aren't going back to school this year.  We will continue to rotate between my wife and I going out once a week to the store.  That's all we're doing until we are shown reliable evidence that things are indeed improving.
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I have been told that we should listen to the experts.

 
Coach Morris Buttermaker said:
Would love to see outdoor seating only for bars/restaurants sometime soon, especially here in the South. Of course, please open the beaches and boat ramps (i can't currently kayak alone), but just enforce the social distancing. Or just open for locals to keep tourists out.
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Along the same lines, Washington has shut down recreational fishing.   I don't really understand why I can't fish by myself, but I can walk to the same places that I'd be fishing, or I can take my boat out, but can't drop a line in.  

 
-fish- said:
Along the same lines, Washington has shut down recreational fishing.   I don't really understand why I can't fish by myself, but I can walk to the same places that I'd be fishing, or I can take my boat out, but can't drop a line in.  
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It's a very fine line between fishing and standing around loitering.

 
-fish- said:
Along the same lines, Washington has shut down recreational fishing.   I don't really understand why I can't fish by myself, but I can walk to the same places that I'd be fishing, or I can take my boat out, but can't drop a line in.  
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And Wisconsin has no golf.  People can walk the golf courses (and do) but you can't swing a stick at a ball.  Even with proper social distancing and not using a cart, no pins, pay via venmo so no clubhouse, etc...

 
BassNBrew said:
Need to figure out a way to get the medical industry back up and rolling.  The fact that we are closing down hospitals and doctors offices is not good for our long term health.  
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Are we? I saw some links that some hospitals were furloughing employees. To what degree and for what specific reasons?

To me, the phrase "closing down hospitals" implies a large number, and implies that's it's not situational case-by-case closings, but widespread all-over-the-place closings. Like every American region suddenly losing half of their hospitals over a few weeks.

 
People I know are losing it.....I never realized how this would effect the mental makeup of a lot of people...im not even talking about the understandable economic impact....im talking just not being able to do the daily routine - Im seeing more people with social media meltdowns.....going out more and more....posting false info about how the quarantine is about to end....to even outright challenging why this needs to continue.....and Im in a hotspot state......very concerning.  

 
Pipes said:
And Wisconsin has no golf.  People can walk the golf courses (and do) but you can't swing a stick at a ball.  Even with proper social distancing and not using a cart, no pins, pay via venmo so no clubhouse, etc...
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Yeah, we started out being able to golf, but as of April 2 driving ranges and golf courses were closed.   But you can walk or ride a bike on the cart path.

 
Statorama said:
There's no reason a small quilting store should remain closed if everyone is masked up and plays nice (distancing).  There's no reason I shouldn't be able to purchase a car if we're all wearing masks and gloves.
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I agree. I unfortunately have a secondary property I put up for sale by owner in January. Great timing. I had two showings this weekend. It's unoccupied so buyers feel a bit safer and since I don't live there, I feel safer. I simply asked the buyers to wear masks and gloves, and I did the same. They texted me when they arrived and stayed in the living room and let them tour the home with their gear on. I didn't get a sale, or even expect one, but it made me feel good to try to establish a safer protocol to deal with the situation other than not showing it. It made me feel hopeful this can work, even if it's a bit weird and somewhat of a hassle.

These kind of protocols need to be developed in every industry. For factories, is it temp checks (or ideally instant CV tests) in combination with PPE? Rotating shifts to mitigate sick workers? Seems doable. Retail establishments are beginning to protect workers and ramp up sanitation which in turn will make customers feel more comfortable. Then it's the customers who will need to follow a protocol to make the workers and other customers feel safer. I went to the hardware store to do a curb side pick-up and it looked like business as usual. Elderly lady just heading into the store with no PPE. The curb side guy had no PPE either. It's not really their fault and tough to "shame" them, because there is no plan. But as a customer myself, I'd be more likely to shop with them if they had a safety plan for the situation and it may be up to businesses to proactively adopt them instead of waiting on guidance. A national plan would just make it quicker for everyone to get on the same page.

 
The Big Reset (good read)

I'm finding reading stuff like this fascinating.

It's incredible how something like this could potentially change so much about our daily lives moving forward beyond this initial period.  The fact that this virus has the potential to:

1)  Drastically increase working from home, which would....

2)  Drastically improve pollution due to decrease commutes and travel

3)  Wholesale government changes that could include more widespread healthcare for all, family/daycare coverage, etc.

4)  Reconnecting with family and changing our daily routines to include eating at home more, more exercising, and overall more "caring" for each other and our friends, reaching out more often, etc.

5)  The change of social norms like wearing masks in public, shaking hands, and even just social distancing in general.

is amazing to me.

In some ways, I really think we needed this kind of "reset" in a big, big way.  I hope we take advantage of the opportunity afforded us.

 
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The Commish said:
proteus126 said:
I have been told that we should listen to the experts.
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Sure.  Experts will provide the evidence I am requiring.
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And experts will get some things wrong. It takes time to figure out novel viruses, but we don't really have the luxury of just waiting until there is a sure fire 100% concensus on how to comabt and/or how to live with this thing.

So rather than going on whims and listening to tallking heads, we should take expert concensus from the data available and rely on their intelligence and decision making. I can't believe anyomne thinks we should do anything different. 

 
gianmarco said:
The Big Reset (good read)

I'm finding reading stuff like this fascinating.

It's incredible how something like this could potentially change so much about our daily lives moving forward beyond this initial period.  The fact that this virus has the potential to:

1)  Drastically increase working from home, which would....

2)  Drastically improve pollution due to decrease commutes and travel

3)  Wholesale government changes that could include more widespread healthcare for all, family/daycare coverage, etc.

4)  Reconnecting with family and changing our daily routines to include eating at home more, more exercising, and overall more "caring" for each other and our friends, reaching out more often, etc.

5)  The change of social norms like wearing masks in public, shaking hands, and even just social distancing in general.

is amazing to me.

In some ways, I really think we needed this kind of "reset" in a big, big way.  I hope we take advantage of the opportunity afforded us.
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You left off alcohol with take-out, and DoorDash/UberEats/etc should definitely be allowed to deliver from my liquor store with proper ID restrictions like having your ID on file.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Some Florida beaches may open soon. 

LINK

"One such scenario could allow residents to use the shoreline for walking and jogging, but not allow crowds to congregate in beach chairs or under canopies. Another could allow private condominium pools to open, but would prohibit people from gathering on pool decks."
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FWIW, this is already happening.  Some beaches never shut down.  Kinda went like this.  "Leave it to municipalities to decide"...ok, they decided.  First was the "shutting down public parks and parking lots on the beach.  That thinned some people, but many weren't to be deterred.  The next step was "you can be on the beach for exercise.  No sitting, or laying out etc".  Some continue to not be deterred.  So, final step is to shut things down completely.  All the various beaches are at various stages.  Most never made it to the final stage.  

Florida is a microcosm of why "relying on the public to do the right thing" is simply not an option in any real, meaningful solution IMO.  That's the rub that I see.  Sure, you can come up with these logical plans that allow for targeted isolation etc, but if you aren't willing to (and most aren't...they can't handle the volumen they'd face) put people in jail for it and right an actual law around it, it's going to fail 99 times out of 100.  I see WAY TOO MANY "solutions" that require (and have faith in) the general public to "do the right thing" with just a smidge above ZERO evidence to support they would actually do the right thing.

 
Statorama said:

Fauci is trying to do a little revisionist history in his various press tours and I think it's rubbing people (or a person) the wrong way.

From a February 29th interview
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Hmmm. You cut off Fauci's quote, just before he said: "...this could change. I’ve said that many times even on this program. You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread."

A little revisionist history, indeed.
 
jplvr said:
You left off alcohol with take-out, and DoorDash/UberEats/etc should definitely be allowed to deliver from my liquor store with proper ID restrictions like having your ID on file.
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There's so much more.  Less traffic.  Less cops on the road giving tickets.  Less accidents.  So many bull#### rules being relaxed overall (TSA, for example). 

And we can expand on it.  Hell, even add a day to the weekend that kids can do online learning for. 

 
belljr said:
I have way less desire to workout now
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I'm the opposite. I look at it this way. When this is all done you are going at some time look back and think what did I do during the time I was stuck at home. To come out of this in better shape than what you went in would be a nice feeling. Added benefit of the stress relief of exercising  and it's a great time to hit it hard.  

Think of it as training camp or prison haha. Put the time in now and come out stronger. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
These tests producing false negatives are all over the news. It's not one doctor in NY.   :rolleyes:

Let's all begin round 20 of false assertions. This is so fun and productive.
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Can you please start a new thread to discuss this topic? You keep bringing this "theory" up and it derails the thread making it harder to keep up with news. TIA 😀

 
Blick said:
Sorry for butting in.  I don't disagree at all with your statement.  However, the world is at least three months into this situation and it seems like we haven't learned much of anything.  Its seems to still all be a big guess.

  • Drugs show promise, but we really don't know if they work.
  • Masks don't work until they do, or don't.  Maybe to protect you, maybe others.
  • Contact with contaminated surfaces spreads the virus, or maybe not.
  • It only seriously affects older or  immuno-suppressed, until it doesn't.
  • We need to slow the spread to avoid over-running hospitals.  We have.  Now what?
  • On, and on, and on.
We cannot stop this virus.  We're going to have to live with it in some fashion for some time.  Easing restrictions while monitoring hospital capacity seems to me to be the only way through this.
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:goodposting:  

 
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Wooderson said:
I'm the opposite. I look at it this way. When this is all done you are going at some time look back and think what did I do during the time I was stuck at home. To come out of this in better shape than what you went in would be a nice feeling. Added benefit of the stress relief of exercising  and it's a great time to hit it hard.  

Think of it as training camp or prison haha. Put the time in now and come out stronger. 
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Kind of hard though with the weather being crap and the gym being closed.  Excuses I know but myself and 2 co-workers see a trainer 3 mornings a week and that's been shutdown for a month now.  I'm having a hard time making up that calorie burn on my own without the trainer and proper equipment. 

 
Politician Spock said:
I don't disagree with anything that you are saying.

But the stock market reflects the value of stocks, not the economy. 

The economy is tanking for all the reasons you explained above, but the vast majority of that pain is going to be felt by small businesses. Why? I could go into great detail as to why corporations are far better positioned to survive the pain than small businesses are, but I don't even think that should be necessary. It should be obvious why. I'm not saying corporations won't feel pain, I"m just saying they are better positioned to survive. And that's the goal of every business right now. Who is going to survive. And money is placing their bets where survival is going to occur... the stock market. 

When it's to the point where bad news doesn't cause stocks to go down that means all the bad news is already factored into the stock price. And when good news begins to arrive, that's when stock prices will begin to move again. And for those that survive there will be a lot of good news? Why? Because small business assets will be at fire sale prices. The survivors (again, the stock market companies), will become an even bigger part of our economy than they were before. "Too big to fail" now will become "even too bigger to fail" tomorrow. Small businesses will become an even lesser part of future, if that shrinkage wasn't already happening bad enough already.

Again, I'm not saying this a 'bull market" analysis. None of this makes me happy. The growth of corporatism is terrible in my opinion. While there are benefits we've experienced in the first 150 years of it, those benefits are shrinking every decade and the costs of it are being experienced more and more as time goes on. It's bad. Nothing good in my opinion. Again, I'm not here promoting it. I am simply observing it. 

The stock market probably hasn't hit it's bottom in this crisis yet IMHO, but it's possible that it has, and may even be likely that it has. Much of the bad news people expect probably to the end of this year is already factored in. It would probably take news of World War III to make it take another serious hit at this point. And again, those who survive are looking at HUGE gains when the pandemic is over given they've eliminated so much competition, and can buy assets at fire sale prices. It is not a bad bet at all right now to just buy stocks that you think will be positioned well for post-pandemic growth, and wait it out. Which is what a lot of people are doing right now. 
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Really, most people should be looking to big, huge companies when investing these days, either as individual stock purchases or as index funds. Getting out of the "Whole/Extended Market" or Small Caps will likely help you outperform the next couple of years. 

 
belljr said:
I have way less desire to workout now
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I am about the same level of interest in working out as before and I am still running 5 days a week, but have moved to running at night more. I never used to run into people running. Now everybody and their brother is out. To be honest its mostly the families I find annoying. 6 people and a dog taking up the whole path or half the street. Razor scooters and a wagon to boot. I get it, and of course don't want them to not go out, just prefer a little more peace and quiet running and not having to be so focused. Off street paths used to mean you didnt have to worry about cars, now it is actually often easier to be in the road. 

I am eating much healthier though since I don't go to the grocery store as often and I dont go to multiple grocery stores as normal routine. So I can limit the bad stuff coming into the house since I wont even consider overpaying for snacks. I can resist 5 boxes of triscuits for 7.50 once, but if I go to store three times in a week (like prior) how could I be expected to resist every time? Who has that kind of will power? So pretty limited junk food in the house. Haven't had a chip in a while and I love me some chips. Been popping my own popcorn to satisfy a salty snack craving. Put Garlic salt and berbere seasoning on the most recent batch and man that is good. 

 
JbizzleMan said:
Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't wait to bring her home in a few days and hold her again. :wub:
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Great news! Thanks for letting us know. Congrats!

 
gianmarco said:
The Big Reset (good read)

I'm finding reading stuff like this fascinating.

It's incredible how something like this could potentially change so much about our daily lives moving forward beyond this initial period.  The fact that this virus has the potential to:

1)  Drastically increase working from home, which would....

2)  Drastically improve pollution due to decrease commutes and travel

3)  Wholesale government changes that could include more widespread healthcare for all, family/daycare coverage, etc.

4)  Reconnecting with family and changing our daily routines to include eating at home more, more exercising, and overall more "caring" for each other and our friends, reaching out more often, etc.

5)  The change of social norms like wearing masks in public, shaking hands, and even just social distancing in general.

is amazing to me.

In some ways, I really think we needed this kind of "reset" in a big, big way.  I hope we take advantage of the opportunity afforded us.
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I'm not 100% on board with your first point above. My opinion is that the effectiveness of most people when working from home is very overstated. Everyone says they do it well. Just like everyone says they are an above average driver. But here I am posting on a message board. 

Had a good conversation with a buddy who agreed and pointed out that there two things that make working from home look good right now:

1) Everyone is more patient. This is a terrible situation and very few managers are getting upset when your Skype goes yellow for a little bit. They expect that you won't get as much done when you have your kids home trying to do some remote schooling and your spouse is home working as well. 

2) Business in most places has clearly slowed down. So less work to do and generally less urgency in the work needed. 

When things get back to "normal", those two things should go away. At that point, I think that alot of companies will realize that their workers are not as efficient working remotely and ask them to start coming back to the office, like Bank of America recently did here in Charlotte. 

I'm sure there will be some increase in WFH, I just think it's being overstated because of what is happening in the world right now. 

 
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Sorry guys, fell asleep on the couch after Macron's address to France.

Lockdown extended to May 11, with a potential plan of a staged "unlocking". Elementary schools would potentially return, but high school/universities closed until September (online learning only)

That about sums it up... On the right path but need to continue the strict lockdown etc. Will be reassessed

 
JbizzleMan said:
Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't wait to bring her home in a few days and hold her again. :wub:
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Glad you got to see her! Congrats!

 
Wooderson said:
I'm the opposite. I look at it this way. When this is all done you are going at some time look back and think what did I do during the time I was stuck at home. To come out of this in better shape than what you went in would be a nice feeling. Added benefit of the stress relief of exercising  and it's a great time to hit it hard.  

Think of it as training camp or prison haha. Put the time in now and come out stronger. 
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Completely agree. Wife and I are working out 5-6 days of the week, for at least 25-40 minutes. Walks but also elliptical and resistance band strength training. We've both lost some weight even with the increased alcohol intake. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
I think for all of them, it's going to be easy enough (by then) to test all of the athletes, and I'd guess that will be mandatory. Now playing in front of any kind of fans is another story. Only mass testing and antibody testing is going to bring that back, IMO. 
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With this particular virus - many with no symptoms but contagious and with substantial reports of reinfections occurring (terrifying if true) I have a hard time seeing a testing regimen like this flying.  But hopefully you're right here.

 
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Wooderson said:
I'm the opposite. I look at it this way. When this is all done you are going at some time look back and think what did I do during the time I was stuck at home. To come out of this in better shape than what you went in would be a nice feeling. Added benefit of the stress relief of exercising  and it's a great time to hit it hard.  

Think of it as training camp or prison haha. Put the time in now and come out stronger. 
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Are you gonna come out of this in better shape than when you went in?

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.

 
Went to the grocery store...had a pickup time for food...but several essentials were not "available"  so I donned my mask before my pickup to grab a few items I know we needed that I could not get into my order.

Id estimate it was 50/50 masks vs none.  And that includes the one lady whose mask was merely for show it seems, noticeable gaps on both side of her mouth and around her nose.  It was about as loose as it could be without falling off.  Not sure what she was going for there.

Id say a good 90% of the people were trying to keep a distance.  The 10% that weren't...Id guess they were always the inconsiderate type.  One couple was doing something I would be annoyed with before all of this...cart on the right...both standing looking at something on the left of the aisle.  Blocking everyone's path completely and touching a ton of things and putting them back.  Noticed as I entered that aisle and watched them a moment hoping they would move on.  After I got the item I needed...they were still there doing the same thing.  With 2 more people and carts waiting to get by...I turned around and found a clear aisle to exit.

Now...the pickup...there are 8 pickup car lanes at this grocery store outside.  (4 are overflow that don't have the little loudspeaker and you call into the store with your phone).  When I pulled in, zero of the lanes were occupied and the rest of the parking lot was pretty full.  People still seem to be choosing much more to go into the store than using the free pickup service.  I know, I was part of that grabbing a few things too...but this seems to be the case each week I have been out.  The pickup lines are nearly empty and the regular lot has plenty of cars.

 
Wooderson said:
I'm the opposite. I look at it this way. When this is all done you are going at some time look back and think what did I do during the time I was stuck at home. To come out of this in better shape than what you went in would be a nice feeling. Added benefit of the stress relief of exercising  and it's a great time to hit it hard.  

Think of it as training camp or prison haha. Put the time in now and come out stronger. 
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Same here...its my time out of the hosue away from everyone.  Get to clear my head, get exercise and out in the fresh air.  Its stress relief and is improving my health as much as I can...lost a bit of weight so far and BP is better too.  Add in eating a little better with more time to prepare healthier options for food.  Trying to flatten the curve of my own stomach.

 
So WI puts out some pretty good data for whats going on with covid in the state. Between the hospitals releasing this and the state giving good breakdowns by demographics we have to be one of the better states for available data. 

 
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Pipes said:
Kind of hard though with the weather being crap and the gym being closed.  Excuses I know but myself and 2 co-workers see a trainer 3 mornings a week and that's been shutdown for a month now.  I'm having a hard time making up that calorie burn on my own without the trainer and proper equipment. 
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Yeah...that part would suck.  Been pretty lucky here with decent weather to get out walking, running, biking...then supplement that with some adjustable dumbells I have and resistance bands.  Not the workout Id get at the gym...but its been decent and my son likes to join in.

 
JbizzleMan said:
Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't wait to bring her home in a few days and hold her again. :wub:
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Congratulations. That's awesome. 

 
JbizzleMan said:
Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't wait to bring her home in a few days and hold her again. :wub:
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Congrats! That's the good news we like to hear. Just don't, under any circumstances, name her any variation of Corona, please.

 
gianmarco said:
The Big Reset (good read)

I'm finding reading stuff like this fascinating.

It's incredible how something like this could potentially change so much about our daily lives moving forward beyond this initial period.  The fact that this virus has the potential to:

1)  Drastically increase working from home, which would....

2)  Drastically improve pollution due to decrease commutes and travel

3)  Wholesale government changes that could include more widespread healthcare for all, family/daycare coverage, etc.

4)  Reconnecting with family and changing our daily routines to include eating at home more, more exercising, and overall more "caring" for each other and our friends, reaching out more often, etc.

5)  The change of social norms like wearing masks in public, shaking hands, and even just social distancing in general.

is amazing to me.

In some ways, I really think we needed this kind of "reset" in a big, big way.  I hope we take advantage of the opportunity afforded us.
Click to expand...
Way ahead of him...

 
NotSmart said:
Are you gonna come out of this in better shape than when you went in?

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
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I'm already in good shape(5'10", 158 lbs), and I'm still eating healthy, albeit work is slowing down for me now, so I'll have to find ways to keep moving.

 
-fish- said:
honest question:  I don't see anyone not being cool.   there's one person who continues to push the "it's just the flu" theory, which many people would like to see stop, but I don't see anyone being mean.   what exactly is objectionable about today's discussion?
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Exactly what is objectionable is people calling each other stupid. People calling each other crazy. Of course you don't see it as those get reported and usually removed. 

 
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