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I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Sweden's neighboring countries also relaxed restrictions significantly when the numbers were low. So it's not as if they remained locked down this entire time in order to achieve those same numbers over the last few months. If they had, then I could maybe understand there being a trade-off.
Of course hospitals were overwhelmed, and politicians have incentive to downplay it. While rationing of care may not be completely obvious, I guarantee it has happened in subtle ways, like framing conversations about escalating care in terms that convince people not to pursue measures that would otherwise be performed. And hard hit areas were forced to implement policies like these:
If you think mortality has gone down only because of treatment advances, you're fooling yourself. Although I haven't seen a study of covid mortality in relation to hospital census, I bet it goes up dramatically after a certain number of patients are hospitalized, and that number is far below 100% bed/ICU/ventilator capacity. Why? Covid patients are labor intensive, and counting a covid bed like any other underestimates the time and person power devoted to their care. When healthcare workers are overworked, they make mistakes and care is compromised.
Countries across the EU have had varying levels of restrictions since March, no question. And I'm sure neighbors eased things after the numbers went down, of course they did. But, Sweden relaxed them first, and in fact didn't enact many of those same restrictions at all.
It's fairly obvious why people would not want to compare to places that only have less than 5% of our death totals per capita
I look at Sweden as a viable comparison because I'm interested in what needs to be down now for the best path forward. Obviously N. Zealand, Australia, Japan, etc have better aggregate numbers. They did things right from the get go. But they aren't useful to compare to the U.S. because we have huge spread already, and they do not.
That's interesting. I've read that delayed cancer diagnoses and treatments are a global problem, perphaps that's not true.
That would be a big no-go for me. My wife would be pissed, but to be fair, that is her usual state when it comes to my opinion.
My wife isn't going, but her mom is. The wedding is this Saturday, and my son's bday is exactly 2-weeks after. Should I not allow her to come for the bday? My parents (both over 70) were going to drive 5 hours to see us and I don't want to risk their health at all -- they have been careful.
Mostly covid, plus some suicides and drug/alcohol OD. And probably a little cardiovascular disease. No reason to believe a big uptick in cancer deaths in that age group, and accidents are probably down during the pandemic.
Imagine the selfishness required to not encourage mask use at a wedding. Now imagine the selfishness required to forbid mask use at a wedding.
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At least in the wedding I am referring to they are saying guests will wear masks and have a pew in-between (not sure how many people per pew). The wedding party is together all day though without masks and without them during the ceremony. There also will be no masks during pictures.
Covid would be the single greatest increase, but less than the majority. In the 25-34 group, I bet murder is not very far behind covid.
Remember the nurse that helped bartend at her sister's bar the night bars opened back up in WI and even gave a TV interview? The huge outbreak in Men. Falls (over 40 party guests, luckily I think less than 15 secondary infections) was from a nurse that went to a graduation party and wasn't wearing mask.
Sounds like the beginning of a marriage based on love, respect and compromise. Good luck to the happy new couple!
I swear we just don't care here in WI. Every morning the Maxim's parking lot on capitol drive is packed. Average age of the crowd in there historically is about 97.
I'm right there with you. Lockdowns feel imminent at this point and my family has begun stocking up accordingly. What an awful feeling as we head into a MN winter.
Extrapolate France's cases to US population, and france would have 200k cases in a day! More than double our worst day. So while we lead the way in totals, France just crushed us in todays cases per million!tri-man 47 said:
Murders are certainly up (~15% in the first 6 most of 2020 per the FBI), and that age group is disproportionately impacted by them. But if you look at the weekly deaths grouped by age , it looks like the curve has gone up and down commensurate with improvements covid mortality.
I mean for consumers. Are we really worried about running low on paper products, cleaning supplies, meat, pasta, etc. again?
Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if some shortages occur, as so much of economy is dependent on cheap imports from China and elsewhere.
They've had time to adjust, but have they adjusted enough or just done a few token adjustments?
I don't know who you think I am, but I'm not.
Murders peak in summer too.
That’s interesting and I hadn’t seen those numbers, thanks. Certainly the changes in policing, gun purchasing and economic woes leading to increased violent crime makes sense.
In many areas schools are back, sports are back for college and lower levels, churches are open, restaurants and bars are open - in many, many ways we are right back to pre-COVID in our behaviors. We still don’t have mandatory mask usage and in some areas masks aren’t even worn by 50% of people. We are being told we have to get back to normal - some crazily believe we have turned a corner. We have collectively given up because we want our lives back. I said several months ago that we have just accepted 1k deaths a day. We are ok with it and we will continue to see if for the foreseeable future. I just hope we don’t get to 1,500 or 2,000 a day.
And today it moves to just shy of 490,000 and another 6,500 deaths. U.S. again easily leading the pack. The world was so panicked early last spring ...but we didn't cross the threshold of 100,000 new cases/day until mid-May (though testing has certainly increased since then).tri-man 47 said:
