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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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7 minutes ago, CR69 said:

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

An $0.11 banana is a crippling line item on the monthly budget. 

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12 minutes ago, CR69 said:

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

What now?  The cheapest food items I buy are fruits and veggies.

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21 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I create a 3x6' area in my bedroom to strength train. When I'm not doing that I'm out for a run. Everyone has time and can create their own space. They choose to use it in a different manner. Decisions have consequences. 

This is akin to the posts in the PSF that are in line with "I was able to do x, why can't everybody". 

You claim that you deal with "facts" not feelings, but continue to post that "everyone" can do this.  Multiple physical and mental health issues aside from this not being true, you can't think of other reasons why people wouldn't have time or money to do a proper level of exercise? 

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10 hours ago, TripItUp said:

Not well reasoned according to you.  How about we listen to and respect other opinions?

Well, it’s not just me. The overwhelming majority of infectious disease clinicians and public health officials around the world aren’t advocating just isolating vulnerable populations. One notable group of contrarian “experts” wrote the Great Barrington Declaration, but that policy hasn’t been adopted successfully anywhere, for reasons I summarized here.

Given the US is leading the world in covid cases and deaths already, what makes you think a less restrictive policy will result in better outcomes? What level of cases/deaths would cause you to re-evaluate your stance? 

 

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

This is akin to the posts in the PSF that are in line with "I was able to do x, why can't everybody". 

You claim that you deal with "facts" not feelings, but continue to post that "everyone" can do this.  Multiple physical and mental health issues aside from this not being true, you can't think of other reasons why people wouldn't have time or money to do a proper level of exercise? 

The average person, no. Of course there are exceptions. That's why I was sure to write it's within the control of most humans. 

Edited by MAC_32
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16 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

An $0.11 banana is a crippling line item on the monthly budget. 

 

12 minutes ago, matuski said:

What now?  The cheapest food items I buy are fruits and veggies.

It takes time to cook food from scratch. Time a lot of people don’t have. 

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54 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Also, this is America.   A message of "eat healthy and exercise" goes over about as well as "wear a mask when entering this building".   We just don't like being told what to do.  

I think the message would carry more weight (no pun intended) during or on the heals of a world wide pandemic that specifically targets overweight individuals. If you are not going to convince people now, you’re not going to convince them.

Around me, I see so many more people out walking now than ever before. Our Greenway had so many new members they had to change up who could go on what days because they couldn’t accommodate them all. I’ve read story after story about people that have lost 10, 20, 50lbs while on lockdown. It won’t take a helluva lot for this to turn from a snowball into an avalanche if public officials actually promoted a healthy lifestyle.

42 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I don't do feelings.

#fact

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24 minutes ago, CR69 said:

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

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1 minute ago, Pipes said:

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

Your food decisions are either feeding disease or fighting it. 

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1 minute ago, Pipes said:

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/

In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.

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Statistics indicate a certain percentage of folks in this thread will get this disease. Another percentage will have a rough go of it, another percentage will be hospitalized, another percentage will have lasting damage or die. 
 

It sucks that anyone has to suffer, but I can't be the only one mentally putting some posters in buckets they belong in. :unsure: 

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5 minutes ago, CR69 said:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/

In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.

It doesn’t have to be expensive to eat relatively healthy.  It costs nothing to go for a walk either.

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Just now, Pipes said:

It doesn’t have to be expensive to eat relatively healthy.  It costs nothing to go for a walk either.

And for someone working multiple jobs to get by, where do they find this extra time to go for a walk?

 Poverty and obesity are correlated. It’s a fact. I’m done in here until all of you PSF trolls go crawl back under your rocks. 

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1 minute ago, CR69 said:

And for someone working multiple jobs to get by, where do they find this extra time to go for a walk?

 Poverty and obesity are correlated. It’s a fact. I’m done in here until all of you PSF trolls go crawl back under your rocks. 

See ya.  Suggesting people take responsibility for their own health is being a PSF troll.  Got it.  Always someone else’s fault for our problems.

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11 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I eat my bananas raw. Have I been doing it wrong. 

Are you claiming that people could get all their calories and be healthy by eating bananas? 

Yeah, bananas and carrots are pretty cheap.   I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, but every time we have made a conscious effort to eat healthier as a family, our food bill has gone up.  Decent meat, bread, whatever as a whole it costs more, takes time and effort to make, and goes bad quicker.   Plus it requires me to have transporation and access to a decent store.   

I would just about guarantee that I could feed my family way cheaper if we did McDonalds, mac and cheese, ramen, frozen Totinos, chips, and soda/Kool-aid than anything remotely healthy for us. 

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20 minutes ago, Pipes said:

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

Processed turkey causes cancer and most bread in the US is made with HFCS, which contributes to obesity and hypertension.  I don’t want to contribute taxes for your cancer treatments, because it inconveniences me.  Stop eating turkey.

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Just now, Pipes said:

Yeah let’s keep making excuses for everyone.  Personal responsibility out the window such a great country we live in.

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

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1 minute ago, the rover said:

Processed turkey causes cancer and most bread in the US is made with HFCS, which contributes to obesity and hypertension.  I don’t want to contribute taxes for your cancer treatments, because it inconveniences me.  Stop eating turkey.

Not funny the first time you posted this.  I said relatively healthy and was comparing calories vs a McDonalds value meal.  Anyways I’m out since this is the COVID thread.

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Just now, the rover said:

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

Agreed.  Nowhere did I say otherwise.  I’m just agreeing with other posters there is nothing wrong with promoting people to get in better shape to help fight this.  That’s just a small piece of the puzzle to fighting COVID along with masks, social distancing etc

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2 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Yeah let’s keep making excuses for everyone.  Personal responsibility out the window such a great country we live in.

I am finding this a bit tiring too, but again - different world views.    Throwing out "personal responsibility" as a blanket statement fails to take into consideration people's myriad of lives and situations.  

I am all for talking about that more if we are talking 2 people in the exact same neighborhood, same income, same family dynamic, same mental health, etc..     IMO that doesn't apply quite so well if we are talking about my situation vs. somebody in poverty in an unsafe neighborhood.   

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5 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Are you claiming that people could get all their calories and be healthy by eating bananas? 

Yeah, bananas and carrots are pretty cheap.   I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, but every time we have made a conscious effort to eat healthier as a family, our food bill has gone up.  Decent meat, bread, whatever as a whole it costs more, takes time and effort to make, and goes bad quicker.   Plus it requires me to have transporation and access to a decent store.   

I would just about guarantee that I could feed my family way cheaper if we did McDonalds, mac and cheese, ramen, frozen Totinos, chips, and soda/Kool-aid than anything remotely healthy for us. 

If you'd really like to know how to eat healthy on a budget I will take the time to provide a cohesive answer (not tonight), but I'm not going to do it if I am wasting my time. We were quite poor for a period many years ago and figuring this out was one thing I did to try to weather the storm. A lot of the habits we developed during that time stuck, including running. 

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Just now, Pipes said:

Agreed.  Nowhere did I say otherwise.  I’m just agreeing with other posters there is nothing wrong with promoting people to get in better shape to help fight this.  That’s just a small piece of the puzzle to fighting COVID along with masks, social distancing etc

Then you aren’t agreeing with the other posters that many people in here have problems with.  They want to isolate the vulnerable because they don’t recognize the collective danger presented by asymptomatic carriers.  As long as they perceive themselves as young and healthy, they shouldn’t be limited in their activities, because it’s other peoples’ problems.  This is an ignorant and selfish way to think and act.

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6 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Not funny the first time you posted this.  I said relatively healthy and was comparing calories vs a McDonalds value meal.  Anyways I’m out since this is the COVID thread.

Again, relative.  We talking cheaper white bread, or a healthier whole wheat bread?   Some nasty cheap cold cuts or a little better meat from a local store?    Most the the time healthier = more expensive when we are talking whole meals and total caloric intake for a day.  

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11 minutes ago, the rover said:

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

I agree with this, but I also think that americans could do a better job of exercising and eating healthy.

 

TV watching goes up as income goes down. There is plenty of time for the vast majority of Americans to exercise. 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191558/average-daily-time-spent-on-watching-television-in-the-us-by-income/

 

Eating healthier does not need to be expensive either. I eat a bagged salad most days for lunch and that is only a few bucks.

Even eating healthy for 1 meal a day can make a difference.

Edited by MTskibum
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3 minutes ago, the rover said:

Then you aren’t agreeing with the other posters that many people in here have problems with.  They want to isolate the vulnerable because they don’t recognize the collective danger presented by asymptomatic carriers.  As long as they perceive themselves as young and healthy, they shouldn’t be limited in their activities, because it’s other peoples’ problems.  This is an ignorant and selfish way to think and act.

I quoted and agreed with Mac 32 and he’s been promoting masks and social distancing this entire thread.  I don’t understand where this hostility for suggesting people take some personal responsibility to eat healthier as part of a plan to combat COVID, is coming from.  It’s just part of a much larger plan imo.

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3 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If you'd really like to know how to eat healthy on a budget I will take the time to provide a cohesive answer (not tonight), but I'm not going to do it if I am wasting my time. We were quite poor for a period many years ago and figuring this out was one thing I did to try to weather the storm. A lot of the habits we developed during that time stuck, including running. 

I am sure it can be done.   Sure I am curious about what you guys ended up doing, but my stance will apply - not everyone will be able to do what you did.  

Questions I would have for your diet on a budget would be:  does it require frequent trips to a store?  extra storage space like a bigger freezer?  were you working one job?  how poor are we talking?  how much time does it take to prepare? etc..  

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7 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am finding this a bit tiring too, but again - different world views.    Throwing out "personal responsibility" as a blanket statement fails to take into consideration people's myriad of lives and situations.  

I am all for talking about that more if we are talking 2 people in the exact same neighborhood, same income, same family dynamic, same mental health, etc..     IMO that doesn't apply quite so well if we are talking about my situation vs. somebody in poverty in an unsafe neighborhood.   

I don’t doubt that in parts of the country where this is the case and I empathize I really do.  I just know in my town of 25,000 it’s middle to upper middle class with a bunch of people who would be considered obese and wouldn’t you know I see these people eating butter burgers at Culvers and bellied up to the bar, back when I was going to them.  I just don’t see anything wrong with promoting individual’s health as part of the message to combat Covid.

 

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2 minutes ago, the rover said:

Family history is the primary factor in hypertension, which is one of the leading comorbidities for COVID.  Guess because my great grandfather didn’t eat enough bananas I should stay in my house.

Who is saying that? 

Hypertension runs in my family and people need to social distance. That is completely different than the fact that americans do not exercise enough and do not eat healthy.

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25 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:
43 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I eat my bananas raw. Have I been doing it wrong. 

Are you claiming that people could get all their calories and be healthy by eating bananas? 

Yeah, bananas and carrots are pretty cheap.   I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, but every time we have made a conscious effort to eat healthier as a family, our food bill has gone up.  Decent meat, bread, whatever as a whole it costs more, takes time and effort to make, and goes bad quicker.   Plus it requires me to have transporation and access to a decent store.   

We should all go full spud.

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2 minutes ago, Pipes said:

I quoted and agreed with Mac 32 and he’s been promoting masks and social distancing this entire thread.  I don’t understand where this hostility for suggesting people take some personal responsibility to eat healthier as part of a plan to combat COVID, is coming from.  It’s just part of a much larger plan imo.

I can help with where the hostility is coming from.  he sounds like his chief goal is to sound morally superior.  i agree with the message, but want nothing to do with the messenger.

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43 minutes ago, facook said:

Congrats on 1000 pages guys.

Good to see the disgusting level of self-righteousness from some has not left this thread.  See you at 2000.

It goes both ways man. There are people on this thread that have had the same dismissiveness since there were hardly any covid deaths too.   Over a quarter million dead just in this country--I understand that maybe some of us come across as being too extreme on the self righteous side--but I'd far rather be on that side than on the side that insults and dismisses the deaths of what will probably end up being 300-500 thousand Americans..  There are lots of people in this forum that know people that have died from covid--and in this very thread--there are stories of members who have had really tough battles against it.   For people to come in here and treat it like it's an "over-hyped nothing burger" is frankly insulting.  

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9 minutes ago, Pipes said:

I don’t doubt that in parts of the country where this is the case and I empathize I really do.  I just know in my town of 25,000 it’s middle to upper middle class with a bunch of people who would be considered obese and wouldn’t you know I see these people eating butter burgers at Culvers and bellied up to the bar, back when I was going to them.  I just don’t see anything wrong with promoting individual’s health as part of the message to combat Covid.

 

I understand that and appreciate the bolded.   

It's just one of those things that grinds my gears when people say "everyone can do X".   That is my push back, as well as the posts that come off as "f those people".     I see this in here, or in other threads discussing why people can't get out of poverty and other things.  I just don't understand the myopic thinking there. 

 

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18 minutes ago, MTskibum said:

Who is saying that? 

Hypertension runs in my family and people need to social distance. That is completely different than the fact that americans do not exercise enough and do not eat healthy.

There is at least one poster in the last 3 pages that believes because he is young and healthy he should not have to take appropriate measures to protect people that are vulnerable. 
 

Thats what triggered this nutrition discussion.

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13 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am sure it can be done.   Sure I am curious about what you guys ended up doing, but my stance will apply - not everyone will be able to do what you did.  

Questions I would have for your diet on a budget would be:  does it require frequent trips to a store?  extra storage space like a bigger freezer?  were you working one job?  how poor are we talking?  how much time does it take to prepare? etc..  

You're correct. Good health is not a one size fits all. But whatever method best fits your own unique situation requires one very important element most are not willing to commit- effort.

2 grocery trips/week were ideal, but some weeks only 1. At that time we had 1 fridge and I had 3 jobs. Sunday was food prep day. I want to say our family income during that period was around $mid20some-k/yr, but it was a while ago so specifics escape me. It was above the poverty line, but not by much. 

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29 minutes ago, Pipes said:

I quoted and agreed with Mac 32 and he’s been promoting masks and social distancing this entire thread.  I don’t understand where this hostility for suggesting people take some personal responsibility to eat healthier as part of a plan to combat COVID, is coming from.  It’s just part of a much larger plan imo.

Not just eat healthier, but exercise too. I have an article bookmarked on my work computer that I posted in here months ago that (paraphrasing) proved consistent exercise habits are an effective means to beating this virus. That we are having this exact same debate in this exact same thread months later is poetic - we apply more effort in making excuses for the lazy than we do our own health then don't retain any of the information because it doesn't align with what we want to believe. 

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54 minutes ago, the rover said:

Then you aren’t agreeing with the other posters that many people in here have problems with.  They want to isolate the vulnerable because they don’t recognize the collective danger presented by asymptomatic carriers.  As long as they perceive themselves as young and healthy, they shouldn’t be limited in their activities, because it’s other peoples’ problems.  This is an ignorant and selfish way to think and act.

I'm on a self imposed quarantine, but don't let facts stop you from rambling about hypertension and turkey cancer because I hurt your feelings. 

Edited by MAC_32
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You guys really do suck. "WELL YOU MADE YOURSELF FAT! MAYBE YOU SHOULD EAT  BANANA!" 

Yeah because everyone who is overweight can just eat a couple bananas and lost 50 lbs in a week. It will take most American's longer to get into shape than to get through this pandemic.

"NO ONE TOLD YOU TO SMOKE/VAPE/DRINK"

Well, no one told the people who are depressed from being locked down to jump off a bridge or shoot up some heroin. But we are supposed to have empathy for that? What kind of logic is that? "IT'S YOUR FAULT BECAUSE YOU ARE FAT. HEY! WHAT ABOUT THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING IN THESE OTHER WAYS??? THE CURE CAN'T BE WORSE THAN THE DISEASE!!"

Take your "I'm healthy and don't have anything to worry about, it sucks for you who aren't" and go pound salt somewhere. It isn't really helping and is only putting your character into a bad light.

I'm trying hard to not take the bait on this stuff. I really am. I deal with people like this on a daily basis. But it is in my home right now. And I've lost friends to this and have friends fighting for their lives right now. I can't just turn off my compassion and love for these people because they may not go running on a daily basis or made poor decisions. I've made plenty of my own bad decisions. 

I think I'm going to have to walk away from this thread for awhile. I try not to get caught up in these type of things but due to my personal situation I'm having a hard time. 

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1 hour ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

It goes both ways man. There are people on this thread that have had the same dismissiveness since there were hardly any covid deaths too.   Over a quarter million dead just in this country--I understand that maybe some of us come across as being too extreme on the self righteous side--but I'd far rather be on that side than on the side that insults and dismisses the deaths of what will probably end up being 300-500 thousand Americans..  There are lots of people in this forum that know people that have died from covid--and in this very thread--there are stories of members who have had really tough battles against it.   For people to come in here and treat it like it's an "over-hyped nothing burger" is frankly insulting.  

It does.  It always does.  I have a relative in icu and a friend who was in icu for weeks and is only now recovering at home.  Neither was severely overweight, but if one was, they'd deserve what they get according to some in here.  Not really excellent, imo.

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10 minutes ago, top dog said:

You guys really do suck. "WELL YOU MADE YOURSELF FAT! MAYBE YOU SHOULD EAT  BANANA!" 

Yeah because everyone who is overweight can just eat a couple bananas and lost 50 lbs in a week. It will take most American's longer to get into shape than to get through this pandemic.

"NO ONE TOLD YOU TO SMOKE/VAPE/DRINK"

Well, no one told the people who are depressed from being locked down to jump off a bridge or shoot up some heroin. But we are supposed to have empathy for that? What kind of logic is that? "IT'S YOUR FAULT BECAUSE YOU ARE FAT. HEY! WHAT ABOUT THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING IN THESE OTHER WAYS??? THE CURE CAN'T BE WORSE THAN THE DISEASE!!"

Take your "I'm healthy and don't have anything to worry about, it sucks for you who aren't" and go pound salt somewhere. It isn't really helping and is only putting your character into a bad light.

I'm trying hard to not take the bait on this stuff. I really am. I deal with people like this on a daily basis. But it is in my home right now. And I've lost friends to this and have friends fighting for their lives right now. I can't just turn off my compassion and love for these people because they may not go running on a daily basis or made poor decisions. I've made plenty of my own bad decisions. 

I think I'm going to have to walk away from this thread for awhile. I try not to get caught up in these type of things but due to my personal situation I'm having a hard time. 

You have a lot of #### going on in your world right now. If this is bothering you then you should prioritize your health and take a break. You also should not fit shame (is that a thing) me just like I should not social distance shame you.

I don't know why you're physically at work around other people. I assume you don't have a choice, or at least I hope that is the reason. Regardless of the answer it isn't my business - make the best decisions you think you can based on the information available that is applicable to your situation.

We aren't. When i say we im not talking about top dog, rover, karma, pipes, etc. I'm speaking in generalities - and y'all taking this personally. We, Americans, are not taking this seriously nor are we healthy. Wrt the latter some beyond their own control - and that ain't who I'm talking about. I don't understand why any rational person would think that commentary is in reference to (i.e.) a poor person with 2 jobs, type 1 diabetes, living in an impoverished high crime neighborhood unless that human is just looking for an argument. 

We have opportunities to improve our own unique probabilities of both not getting this - and beating it if we aren't so lucky. Stay away from others, mask up, eat well, and move dammit. 

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42 minutes ago, facook said:

It does.  It always does.  I have a relative in icu and a friend who was in icu for weeks and is only now recovering at home.  Neither was severely overweight, but if one was, they'd deserve what they get according to some in here.  Not really excellent, imo.

Who said that?  Are people really arguing that someone deserves this because they are out of shape?  Multiple people have referenced this but I don’t recall seeing that posted.  If it was and I missed it I appologize.  That’s certainly not my message.

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