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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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My dad has been sick for a few weeks.  My mom called me today to say he was about to die.  I said some final words to him and he could hear me but was unable to respond.  He passed a short time later.

Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't

On a positive note, my wife gave birth to our first child this morning!! We were expecting our daughter to be born in the first week of April, which does not align very well if this hospital sees a ma

13 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Does anybody know the process for warming the pfizer vaccine up? Just let it sit for a while? 

Moving from a minus 80 freezer to a standard cold freezer would do it.  I do think the dilutions required (effectively setting the timer on the 5-6 hours...I think that's what I read) warmer than the low to mid 30s in temp though.  I suspect there's going to be a lot of waste with this particular one.  The Moderna one seems much more manageable.  

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7 minutes ago, bcat01 said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/12/21/nation/coronavirus-mutation-has-been-identified-uk-heres-what-know/

If this new mutation in England would take hold in the U.S. it would overrun the healthcare system.  I would think that it is already here in a few people and with Christmas this week it could be waiting to explode.

We are one of the few countries still allowing flights from the UK. The new strain is here and we just don't know it.

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5 minutes ago, Dezbelief said:

We are one of the few countries still allowing flights from the UK. The new strain is here and we just don't know it.

I'm so grateful to live in best country in the world and that we can learn from our mistakes. (/sarcasm just in case it wasn't obvious)

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9 minutes ago, Dezbelief said:
18 minutes ago, bcat01 said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/12/21/nation/coronavirus-mutation-has-been-identified-uk-heres-what-know/

If this new mutation in England would take hold in the U.S. it would overrun the healthcare system.  I would think that it is already here in a few people and with Christmas this week it could be waiting to explode.

We are one of the few countries still allowing flights from the UK. The new strain is here and we just don't know it.

I think Dez is almost certainly right -- keep in mind that this mutation is not brand-brand-new. It was first identified in September.

The information about this mutation is still indefinite, so it's still reasonable to take one of either an optimistic or a pessimistic perspective. Here's the state-of-play at present from the 12/20 New York Times:

Quote

The Coronavirus Is Mutating. What Does That Mean for Us?
Officials in Britain and South Africa claim new variants are more easily transmitted. There’s a lot more to the story, scientists say.

Just as vaccines begin to offer hope for a path out of the pandemic, officials in Britain this past weekend sounded an urgent alarm about what they called a highly contagious new variant of the coronavirus circulating in England.

...

The British variant has about 20 mutations, including several that affect how the virus locks onto human cells and infects them. These mutations may allow the variant to replicate and transmit more efficiently, said Muge Cevik, an infectious disease expert at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland and a scientific adviser to the British government.

But the estimate of greater transmissibility — British officials said the variant was as much as 70 percent more transmissible — is based on modeling and has not been confirmed in lab experiments, Dr. Cevik added.

“Over all, I think we need to have a little bit more experimental data,” she said. “We can’t entirely rule out the fact that some of this transmissibility data might be related to human behavior.”

In South Africa, too, scientists were quick to note that human behavior was driving the epidemic, not necessarily new mutations whose effect on transmissibility had yet to be quantified.

The British announcement also prompted concern that the virus might evolve to become resistant to the vaccines just now rolling out. The worries are focused on a pair of alterations in the viral genetic code that may make it less vulnerable to certain antibodies.

But several experts urged caution, saying it would take years — not months — for the virus to evolve enough to render the current vaccines impotent.

“No one should worry that there is going to be a single catastrophic mutation that suddenly renders all immunity and antibodies useless,” Dr. Bloom said.

“It is going to be a process that occurs over the time scale of multiple years and requires the accumulation of multiple viral mutations,” he added. “It’s not going to be like an on-off switch.”

The scientific nuance mattered little to Britain’s neighbors. Worried by the potential influx of travelers carrying the variant, the Netherlands said it would suspend flights from Britain from Sunday until Jan. 1.

 

Edited by Doug B
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21 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

Definitely a culmination of months of people being unaware, which given the circumstances is inconsiderate. I tend to be protective of my family, and probably should have taken a deep breath and just beaten the retreat in silence, but sheesh. I can’t fathom being so clueless that I’d force a family into walking right by me during a pandemic. 

To an extent, I projected and he took the brunt of millions of people who have chosen to minimize the virus. And I’d amend the word yell, though it’s what I used. I more spoke out in my best, “Come on, man!” When he made the turn and we were forced into his turning back or getting buzzed by him, I pointed it out to him. He had no idea we had been patiently waiting for him to pass for five minutes, but in my view he should have been.

As for integrating families — not particularly worried given who is involved. SIL is pre-diabetic and overweight and they may be the one family more stringent about isolating and being careful than we are. They are bubbled.

Our other friends live in a gated community in an isolated wooded section and combination of two weeks isolation plus tests is solid.

I trust each individual involved.

 

What you are doing is more dangerous and more likely against gov't orders than what he did.  Maybe give him your christmas address so he can yell at you through the gate.

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16 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Define reputable.  There's so much out there if people looked outside of mainstream media.

Here for starters

Here's another

Not those links.   

So frustrating that people can post this stuff without warnings and TOs around these boards, but a slightly off color joke about a politician gets a few months off.   I don't get how in the eyes of the leadership one is that much more damaging than the other.  

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Does anybody know the process for warming the pfizer vaccine up? Just let it sit for a while? 

Just leave it out I believe. Takes like 3 hours IIRC. We will gently warm other vaccines in our hands to speed up the process but that’s fridge and regular freezer temps. I doubt any external heat is advisable with a drug that needs ultra cold for stability.

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22 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Not a fan of labeling something more transmissible without a legend for what that means, and how it should impact protocols.

Also, from time news broke there was speculation that vaccine may not be effective. Isn’t this pretty easy to deduce? mRNA uses a precise sequence that’s like a key to a lock. Either the sequence they target is there or it isn’t. There is no partially correct key, from what I understand.

my understanding is that the spike protein has a few "sticky" point so even a mutation of that protein, partially, may not render the vaccine ineffective.  

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12 minutes ago, CGRdrJoe said:

It’s Monday and I now feel completely fine, I lost taste Saturday and Sunday but today all is back to normal. Just in time for golf this morning! Booster Jan 8, I’ll report back after that one 

That's flippin' weird. That suggests that it's the immune reaction to a COVID infection that causes the smell/taste loss, as opposed to something the virus itself is doing (e.g. damaging cells via infiltration).

Some report that a persistent stuffed-up nose will weaken smell & taste. Is that what's happening with COVID patients? Or is it more "mysterious" and unintuitive than that?

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

That's flippin' weird. That suggests that it's the immune reaction to a COVID infection that causes the smell/taste loss, as opposed to something the virus itself is doing (e.g. damaging cells via infiltration).

Some report that a persistent stuffed-up nose will weaken smell & taste. Is that what's happening with COVID patients? Or is it more "mysterious" and unintuitive than that?

Yeah, I hadn't heard of that as a side effect of the vaccine and doesn't make much sense.   Did you have any congestion @CGRdrJoe?

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Yeah, I hadn't heard of that as a side effect of the vaccine and doesn't make much sense.   Did you have any congestion @CGRdrJoe?

No more than usual when I travel from nor cal to so cal, my allergies are constant but worse when temps change quickly. It was in the low 60’s in the bay when I left and 80 down at my parents. The CG gave us 5 different things to read on the shot, one was pretty in depth and had taste on there I believe. Either way it was extremely noticeable but not the worst since it kept me away from all the cookies my mom was baking for Xmas. 

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It would be in my state, but walking down the road within 7-17 ft of another person wouldn't be.  Most here would consider you part of the problem and the old man fine.  It's all about perspective.  You have yours and are doing what you feel is safe.  I have no problem with the decision you are making, but you shouldn't be so judgmental.  If you're not comfortable with people in the 7-17 ft range it's best to stay home.

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36 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Just leave it out I believe. Takes like 3 hours IIRC. We will gently warm other vaccines in our hands to speed up the process but that’s fridge and regular freezer temps. I doubt any external heat is advisable with a drug that needs ultra cold for stability.

Yeah probably not a good idea to roll -84 in your hands. 

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Just had a thought:

@CGRdrJoe -- any chance whatsoever that you were harboring a nascent COVID infection when you got the vaccine? More or less asymptomatically?

No idea, I have never been tested and I’ve been pretty healthy since February when I was sick with an unknown upper respiratory infection :shrug:  

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
42 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Just leave it out I believe. Takes like 3 hours IIRC. We will gently warm other vaccines in our hands to speed up the process but that’s fridge and regular freezer temps. I doubt any external heat is advisable with a drug that needs ultra cold for stability.

Yeah probably not a good idea to roll -84 in your hands. 

Young & dumb: I played with dry ice pebbles (-109o F) many time as a kid. Pieces about as big as an M&M. I'm sure the low surface area compared to our palms was keeping us 'safe' ... but it could hurt like a mutha if you didn't juggle the pebble and keep it moving.

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23 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Edit: I don’t really care if the risks of transmission are low walking by someone outdoors at six feet.

Just pointing out that referring to this as "low" is a huge overstatement.

The risks are as close to zero as you can get. In fact waiting in a cul de sac is probably a greater risk of getting pooped on by a bird and developing a brand new bird flu than catching covid outside in a brief passing.

In fact yelling at him and risking him yelling back might be the only way you could create a covid transmission in your scenario.  

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57 minutes ago, CGRdrJoe said:

It’s Monday and I now feel completely fine, I lost taste Saturday and Sunday but today all is back to normal. Just in time for golf this morning! Booster Jan 8, I’ll report back after that one 

Interesting, is that a potential side effect of the vaccine?  I haven't paid close attention to the new on the vaccine.

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@Terminalxylem @gianmarco

I can't remember if I asked this previously or not - did a search and can't find it in the thread.  My wife had Guillain-Barre as a child - any concerns with her taking the vaccine?  Right now she's leaning towards not until we find out for sure it's safe.  Doing a Google search revealed one link which seemed to indicate she would be ok to get it.

Just wondering if either of you (or anybody else) has any info on this.

ETA - and of course we will consult her physician on this but wanted to see what information may be out there already.

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17 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

@Terminalxylem @gianmarco

I can't remember if I asked this previously or not - did a search and can't find it in the thread.  My wife had Guillain-Barre as a child - any concerns with her taking the vaccine?  Right now she's leaning towards not until we find out for sure it's safe.  Doing a Google search revealed one link which seemed to indicate she would be ok to get it.

Just wondering if either of you (or anybody else) has any info on this.

ETA - and of course we will consult her physician on this but wanted to see what information may be out there already.

Even though the recurrence risk is essentially zero (and the link to vaccines is debatable), your physician may recommend against it. Technically, it is NOT contraindicated (from CDC):

Quote

Persons with a history of Guillain-Barré syndrome

To date, no cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) have been reported following vaccination among participants in the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines clinical trials. With few exceptions, ACIP’s general best practice guidelines for immunization does not include history of GBS as a contraindication or precaution to vaccination. Persons with a history of GBS may receive an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine unless they have a contraindication to vaccination. Any occurrence of GBS following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination should be reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). 

If I were her, I’d get vaccinated.

Edited by Terminalxylem
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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Not those links.   

So frustrating that people can post this stuff without warnings and TOs around these boards, but a slightly off color joke about a politician gets a few months off.   I don't get how in the eyes of the leadership one is that much more damaging than the other.  

What's wrong with my links?  I'm having an honest discussion about an important topic and posted links of doctors and scientists speaking out.  Please tell me what's wrong in that!

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5 hours ago, [icon] said:

1) Influenza =\= Coronavirus 

2) There are families of 325,000 Americans who might take issue with your claim COVID is curable.

And that's just the issues in your first sentence...  we can START there :lol: 

It's curable was my point.  There are LOADs of doctors saying so. Did you watch either of the video links I provided?

 

So let's get this straight. Nobody wants to know the truth, correct?  I post 2 links with loads of doctors and scientists giving their expert opinions that differ from mainstream narrative but they're the 'wrong' links.  I'm out for truth.  This has nothing to do with politics, it's about truth, freedom and living.  Why am I getting constantly ridiculed for wanting to know the truth.  This is very frustrating that we can't ask questions about this without so much anger and ridicule.  I'm an American. I'm a military veteran. My first ancestors arrived here in the early 1600s.  I care about my country. I care about freedom. I care about the TRUTH.  Why so much anger towards that?  I'm not a troll. I'm sincerely looking for truth in a world of lies and corruption. All of us should be.  Censorship is NOT the answer to finding truth.  Please understand my intentions.  

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5 minutes ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

What's wrong with my links?  I'm having an honest discussion about an important topic and posted links of doctors and scientists speaking out.  Please tell me what's wrong in that!

I looked up a few of those physicians in that video. The ones I looked up have had their licenses revoked or suspended. The first physician in the video does not even believe viruses exist at all. Another one in England does not believe HIV exists.

These are fringe conspiracy folks that represent a very small minority.

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3 hours ago, Dezbelief said:

We are one of the few countries still allowing flights from the UK. The new strain is here and we just don't know it.

 

3 hours ago, jobarules said:

Not only are we letting flights in but we are also not requiring negative covid tests.

This was our game plan in February/March as we shut down travel from China but left the door open to Europe and we crushed NYC. There are 20+? flights a day coming in from the UK, probably looking for a repeat performance of that in January and the spread of this mutated virus as well.

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2 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Just leave it out I believe. Takes like 3 hours IIRC. We will gently warm other vaccines in our hands to speed up the process but that’s fridge and regular freezer temps. I doubt any external heat is advisable with a drug that needs ultra cold for stability.

Won't you also have to add some sort of agent to make the consumable doses?  I thought I read they were being shipped 5/10 (whatever the number) doses per bottle, but then on site more work needed to be done to make them into the consumable doses.  

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Are we getting ready to come full circle back to hydroxychloroquine as the miracle cure?  It's been a few months since that story's come about.  :oldunsure: 

It seems the troll presence ramps up as the virus spread ramps up. Definitely a correlation. With how closely this thread gets watched for any sort of political mention, it's amusing that the obvious trolls carry on with impunity. 

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15 minutes ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

It's curable was my point.  There are LOADs of doctors saying so. Did you watch either of the video links I provided?

 

So let's get this straight. Nobody wants to know the truth, correct?  I post 2 links with loads of doctors and scientists giving their expert opinions that differ from mainstream narrative but they're the 'wrong' links.  I'm out for truth.  This has nothing to do with politics, it's about truth, freedom and living.  Why am I getting constantly ridiculed for wanting to know the truth.  This is very frustrating that we can't ask questions about this without so much anger and ridicule.  I'm an American. I'm a military veteran. My first ancestors arrived here in the early 1600s.  I care about my country. I care about freedom. I care about the TRUTH.  Why so much anger towards that?  I'm not a troll. I'm sincerely looking for truth in a world of lies and corruption. All of us should be.  Censorship is NOT the answer to finding truth.  Please understand my intentions.  

 

16 minutes ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

It's curable was my point.  There are LOADs of doctors saying so. Did you watch either of the video links I provided?

 

So let's get this straight. Nobody wants to know the truth, correct?  I post 2 links with loads of doctors and scientists giving their expert opinions that differ from mainstream narrative but they're the 'wrong' links.  I'm out for truth.  This has nothing to do with politics, it's about truth, freedom and living.  Why am I getting constantly ridiculed for wanting to know the truth.  This is very frustrating that we can't ask questions about this without so much anger and ridicule.  I'm an American. I'm a military veteran. My first ancestors arrived here in the early 1600s.  I care about my country. I care about freedom. I care about the TRUTH.  Why so much anger towards that?  I'm not a troll. I'm sincerely looking for truth in a world of lies and corruption. All of us should be.  Censorship is NOT the answer to finding truth.  Please understand my intentions.  

Search the internet and you will always find some sub-cohort of individuals that will agree/support your views. You can take the minute minority and I'll take the overwhelming majority.

If you have more links please post them (albeit ones that don't feel like they give my laptop the equivalent malware version of covid).

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Here's a little writeup on some of the "doctors" in that one video link

And a little background on the author so you know where he's coming from:

Quote

So, here I am, a declared opponent of lockdowns. I am a skeptic of Covid-19 epidemiological models. I doubt the validity of PCR tests (and there’s a great podcast here that explains exactly why). I think the virus is less serious than we’ve been told, but more serious than the flu.

Because I think Covid-19 is real and serious, and I’m okay with vaccinating against it, I get denounced as a shill for Bill Gates, the World Health Organisation, Big Pharma and government tyranny. Because I oppose government lockdowns and question the official statistics, I get denounced as a Covid denier. Can’t win.

 

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26 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

It seems the troll presence ramps up as the virus spread ramps up. Definitely a correlation. With how closely this thread gets watched for any sort of political mention, it's amusing that the obvious trolls carry on with impunity. 

Seriously. 

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22 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Won't you also have to add some sort of agent to make the consumable doses?  I thought I read they were being shipped 5/10 (whatever the number) doses per bottle, but then on site more work needed to be done to make them into the consumable doses.  

I was off on the times:

30 minutes to thaw at room temp, 4-6 hours in the fridge. After thawing, it needs to be reconstituted within 2 hours. After reconstitution the 5 doses are good for 6 hours in the fridge.

To compare with Moderna, it can be stored in a regular freezer for 6 months, the refrigerator for 30 days. It doesn’t need to be reconstituted and has 10 doses in each vial. Only tricky part is the vial is only good for 6 hours after punctured.

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14 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

I was off on the times:

30 minutes to thaw at room temp, 4-6 hours in the fridge. After thawing, it needs to be reconstituted within 2 hours. After reconstitution the 5 doses are good for 6 hours in the fridge.

To compare with Moderna, it can be stored in a regular freezer for 6 months, the refrigerator for 30 days. It doesn’t need to be reconstituted and has 10 doses in each vial. Only tricky part is the vial is only good for 6 hours after punctured.

All that sounds like something I've heard.  Logistics for Pfizer seem like they're a nightmare for local doctors/pharmacies etc....maybe not a big deal when they are at a place saying "we are doing X amount of vaccines today and when they are gone, you'll have to come back the next day" kinds of stuff....the mass vaccination stations.

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37 minutes ago, jamny said:

Here's a little writeup on some of the "doctors" in that one video link

And a little background on the author so you know where he's coming from:

Quote

So, here I am, a declared opponent of lockdowns. I am a skeptic of Covid-19 epidemiological models. I doubt the validity of PCR tests (and there’s a great podcast here that explains exactly why). I think the virus is less serious than we’ve been told, but more serious than the flu.

Because I think Covid-19 is real and serious, and I’m okay with vaccinating against it, I get denounced as a shill for Bill Gates, the World Health Organisation, Big Pharma and government tyranny. Because I oppose government lockdowns and question the official statistics, I get denounced as a Covid denier. Can’t win.

 

And this is usually where these types go off the rails....almost very credible model that showed up during the infancy of this pandemic predicted that between 200-500K people in the US were going to die from this.  Right now we are smack dab in the middle of that estimate.  Those predictions couldn't have done much better than they have.  It's remarkable.

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59 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

It seems the troll presence ramps up as the virus spread ramps up. Definitely a correlation. With how closely this thread gets watched for any sort of political mention, it's amusing that the obvious trolls carry on with impunity. 

PSA have people ready to instant report

And when "the truth" goes against actual science is it the truth?   

A famous man once said....

"It's not a Lie, if you believe it"

Edited by belljr
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A detailed post on the efficacy of various COVID treatments.  Full disclosure, I do not know if this guy is credible or not other than his claim he is "the Executive Director for the COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund (CETF)".

Interesting quote: "If everyone in the world took just the fluvoxamine for 14 days after they learned they were COVID positive, our hospitals and ICUs would be nearly empty today."

 

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59 minutes ago, themeanmachine said:

A detailed post on the efficacy of various COVID treatments.  Full disclosure, I do not know if this guy is credible or not other than his claim he is "the Executive Director for the COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund (CETF)".

Steve Kirsch is credible, but it's important to note that he himself is not the scientific brains behind the enterprise (which he admits freely in your link). Kirsch is CETF's founder and financial backer. Kirsch and a team of advisors accept submission for grants to study existing drugs that may help in the fight against COVID-19.

A lot of the information he's sharing in the link is preliminary but promising. In the first section detailing monoclonal antibodies, Kirsch goes over the two that President Trump took at Walter Reed (casirivimab and imdevimab) and notes their pros and cons. Kirsch is pushing for CETF-funded research and belies some frustration with the cautious approach of most scientists in the field. But even as he comes off as impatient and maybe overeager ... Kirsch seems to have his heart and head in the right place.

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44 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Highly doubt it.

SD, ND, WI, IA all on same trajectories. 

I think those places, Thanksgiving was just like any other random Thursday in that they got drunk with family/friends. Only instead of at a bar it was at someone's house

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49 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Highly doubt it.

SD, ND, WI, IA all on same trajectories. 

Disagree lots of people gave up gathering at Thanksgiving like they normally do.  Not sure it was enough to move the needle but tons of people made that sacrifice this year.

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