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Are we already living in a dictatorship? (2 Viewers)

Green Balloons said:
Coronavirus data has already disappeared after Trump administration shifted control from CDC
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When reached for comment Thursday by CNBC, HHS spokesman Michael Caputo said in a statement that the CDC was directed to make the data available again. In the future, he said, HHS will provide “more powerful insights.”

“Yes, HHS is committed to being transparent with the American public about the information it is collecting on the coronavirus,” he said. “Therefore, HHS has directed CDC to re-establish the coronavirus dashboards it withdrew from the public on Wednesday

:shrug:

 
rcam said:
Seriously? This is in response to you a few months ago, in this thread.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783759-are-we-already-living-in-a-dictatorship/?do=findComment&comment=22502750

His opinion of the current Administration has only gotten worse since then.
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Yeah, weird, because when my grandparents were alive they would tell me how great America is every day and why people are constantly complaining.  They ain't from america, but the Old Country.  Y'know,  WW2 and all that.  Was captured by the Nazis and tortured.  I know that doesn't mean much for the overly dramatic in here, but to think THIS is a dictatorship is beyond absurd.

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, weird, because when my grandparents were alive they would tell me how great America is every day and why people are constantly complaining.  They ain't from america, but the Old Country.  Y'know,  WW2 and all that.  Was captured by the Nazis and tortured.  I know that doesn't mean much for the overly dramatic in here, but to think THIS is a dictatorship is beyond absurd.
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I doubt that anyone here currently thinks we are living under a dictatorship. However, we aren't living in the same country that we were 20 years ago - pre 9/11, pre social media. Is this Hitler's Germany? Or Stalin's USSR? No - of course not. However, this current Administration is tearing down the institutions and checks and balances that are in place to prevent that slide. IMO, anyone that votes for Trump in the next election believes in the exact opposite ideals that have made America great in the eyes of history and the eyes of the world. 

 
rcam said:
I doubt that anyone here currently thinks we are living under a dictatorship. However, we aren't living in the same country that we were 20 years ago - pre 9/11, pre social media. Is this Hitler's Germany? Or Stalin's USSR? No - of course not. However, this current Administration is tearing down the institutions and checks and balances that are in place to prevent that slide. IMO, anyone that votes for Trump in the next election believes in the exact opposite ideals that have made America great in the eyes of history and the eyes of the world. 
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Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I disagree vehemently, but I respect it.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
What the Heck are Federal Law Enforcement Officers Doing in Portland?
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KC too

Feds kick off crime-fighting effort in Kansas City by disrespecting local leaders

ETA

This little tidbit is sad too:

This spike in violent crime did not materialize out of nowhere. According to a study by the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy & Research, in the six years after Missouri’s Republican majority in Jefferson City did away with the highly effective law that had made gun owners get a background check in person at a local sheriff’s office in 2007, gun homicides in our state went up 16%, even as the national rate went down 11%.

In 2014, lawmakers lowered the age at which you could legally carry a gun to 19, and in 2016, they relaxed our gun laws even further, making it legal to carry a loaded weapon, openly or concealed, virtually anywhere, without any permit. That final unshackling took effect in 2017. As of 2018, Missouri had the second-highest murder rate in the country, after Louisiana.
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Andy Dufresne said:
When reached for comment Thursday by CNBC, HHS spokesman Michael Caputo said in a statement that the CDC was directed to make the data available again. In the future, he said, HHS will provide “more powerful insights.”

“Yes, HHS is committed to being transparent with the American public about the information it is collecting on the coronavirus,” he said. “Therefore, HHS has directed CDC to re-establish the coronavirus dashboards it withdrew from the public on Wednesday

:shrug:
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White House blocks CDC director from testifying before House panel on reopening schools

Just more information suppression. 

 
gianmarco said:
And no one is stepping up to make sure they do. The 2 other branches sitting idly by.
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I don't know that I would blame both branches. The only remedy for these things is impeachment and one of the branches did that already. I'm sure certain members of the other branch are concerned though, so it is all good.

 
Who knew you could run this country by decree.  The repubs are going to love it when a democratic president does all the things trump does i'm sure

 
killface said:
Who knew you could run this country by decree.  The repubs are going to love it when a democratic president does all the things trump does i'm sure
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I pray this doesn’t happen but the possibility is certainly there. 

 
-jb- said:
I pray this doesn’t happen but the possibility is certainly there. 
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The problem is I agree, it won't happen. The Dems at this point aren't even close to as corrupt as the repubs.  The Rs have gotten into the habit of pushing as far as they can when they are in power. They want to win and that's all that counts.  Things will normalize when he loses though.  

Although part of me hopes that Biden declares a national emergency on

1. climate

2. education

3. jobs

4. economy

5. health care

and then just does whatever he wants

 
killface said:
The problem is I agree, it won't happen. The Dems at this point aren't even close to as corrupt as the repubs.  The Rs have gotten into the habit of pushing as far as they can when they are in power. They want to win and that's all that counts.  Things will normalize when he loses though.  

Although part of me hopes that Biden declares a national emergency on

1. climate

2. education

3. jobs

4. economy

5. health care

and then just does whatever he wants
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Both parties have been greatly expanding executive power and abdicating legislative responsibilities for quite a while. I mean, President Obama flat out said “If Congress won’t act, I will.” There were definitely actual conservative pundits that quite frequently wrote about how Democrats were going to regret how much they were expanding executive authority and argued against it as a general principle.

The problem is that both parties are extremely short sighted and willing to take short term gains at the expense of what is good long term for the country. Expanding executive authority quite obviously expands or for your political opponents as well. Everyone loves it when their guy gets to do what he wants and views it as a good thing and hates it when the other side does it and views it as a license to do evil. 

The bottom line though is that more and more executive authority bypasses the compromises and moderating effect that the legislature is supposed to provide and leads to more and more extremist policy on both sides that leads to more division across the country. 

 
GroveDiesel said:
Both parties have been greatly expanding executive power and abdicating legislative responsibilities for quite a while. I mean, President Obama flat out said “If Congress won’t act, I will.” There were definitely actual conservative pundits that quite frequently wrote about how Democrats were going to regret how much they were expanding executive authority and argued against it as a general principle.

The problem is that both parties are extremely short sighted and willing to take short term gains at the expense of what is good long term for the country. Expanding executive authority quite obviously expands or for your political opponents as well. Everyone loves it when their guy gets to do what he wants and views it as a good thing and hates it when the other side does it and views it as a license to do evil. 

The bottom line though is that more and more executive authority bypasses the compromises and moderating effect that the legislature is supposed to provide and leads to more and more extremist policy on both sides that leads to more division across the country. 
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I agree with you completely but i think you have to readily admit that Trump has taken this to a new level.  I mean he is deploying the national guard to cities without being asked.  He has bypassed congress on pretty much everything he has done.

 
killface said:
I agree with you completely but i think you have to readily admit that Trump has taken this to a new level.  I mean he is deploying the national guard to cities without being asked.  He has bypassed congress on pretty much everything he has done.
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This isn't actually correct. He's deploying federal agents from different agencies - including (allegedly) BOP, CBP, etc.

That's not a defense of his actions. Far from it.

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
Yeah, obviously they have no teeth there, but it seems they should just subpoena over White House objections.  
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The impeachment proceedings taught us that Congressional subpoenas don't need to be honored.

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but there is very little Congress can apparently do with a President who refuses to acknowledge their Constitutional role/rights and a party that stands behind him such that he can't be removed from office. It's pretty scary stuff and will undoubtedly be used in the future by someone who is smarter and more effective than Trump is.

 
TheMagus said:
The impeachment proceedings taught us that Congressional subpoenas don't need to be honored.

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but there is very little Congress can apparently do with a President who refuses to acknowledge their Constitutional role/rights and a party that stands behind him such that he can't be removed from office. It's pretty scary stuff and will undoubtedly be used in the future by someone who is smarter and more effective than Trump is.
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They have the power to hold someone in contempt for ignoring a subpoena 

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
They have the power to hold someone in contempt for ignoring a subpoena 
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And then? Let's say members of the administration refuse to answer a Congressional subpoena (like they did in the impeachment proceedings and various other attempts at investigation made by Congress) and Congress holds those individuals in contempt of Congress? What happens next? 

This was talked about quite a bit during the impeachment proceedings, but Congress would then pass the charge onto the DOJ for processing. That is not going to happen in this admin. So the charge means nothing. There are no consequences. The executive branch can apparently just flip Congress the bird and there is nothing that can be done with a complicit political party and DOJ.  @Maurile Tremblay  or @SaintsInDome2006 please correct me if I am wrong about this, but I don't think so.

 
TheMagus said:
And then? Let's say members of the administration refuse to answer a Congressional subpoena (like they did in the impeachment proceedings and various other attempts at investigation made by Congress) and Congress holds those individuals in contempt of Congress? What happens next? 

This was talked about quite a bit during the impeachment proceedings, but Congress would then pass the charge onto the DOJ for processing. That is not going to happen in this admin. So the charge means nothing. There are no consequences. The executive branch can apparently just flip Congress the bird and there is nothing that can be done with a complicit political party and DOJ.  @Maurile Tremblay  or @SaintsInDome2006 please correct me if I am wrong about this, but I don't think so.
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MT really should be listened to here, not me, but IMO it's really all hanging on the McGann decision. I'm idealistic and think it's required, totally, but Trump has gamed the system and the USSC has helped him along the way by allowing things to get drawn out so this will likely be not resolved before the election or really 'til next term when McGann is ruled on. So yeah as of right now until Congress gets itself a sheriff's office that's the case.

 
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TheMagus said:
And then? Let's say members of the administration refuse to answer a Congressional subpoena (like they did in the impeachment proceedings and various other attempts at investigation made by Congress) and Congress holds those individuals in contempt of Congress? What happens next? 

This was talked about quite a bit during the impeachment proceedings, but Congress would then pass the charge onto the DOJ for processing. That is not going to happen in this admin. So the charge means nothing. There are no consequences. The executive branch can apparently just flip Congress the bird and there is nothing that can be done with a complicit political party and DOJ.  @Maurile Tremblay  or @SaintsInDome2006 please correct me if I am wrong about this, but I don't think so.
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Congress wouldn't involve the DOJ. Congress could sue in court to try to enforce the subpoena (without DOJ involvement), or Congress could simply jail the contemnor on its own without suing. The latter is no longer standard practice, but that's only because Congress is dumb.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Congress wouldn't involve the DOJ. Congress could sue in court to try to enforce the subpoena (without DOJ involvement), or Congress could simply jail the contemnor on its own without suing. The latter is no longer standard practice, but that's only because Congress is dumb.
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This is exactly my point. They have this power. This is clearly a situation to take their power back.

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, weird, because when my grandparents were alive they would tell me how great America is every day and why people are constantly complaining.  They ain't from america, but the Old Country.  Y'know,  WW2 and all that.  Was captured by the Nazis and tortured.  I know that doesn't mean much for the overly dramatic in here, but to think THIS is a dictatorship is beyond absurd.
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It’s obviously not a “dictatorship”.  But it is undeniably taking on features of one.  An average poli-sci 101 student could identify the ground floor equivalencies.  

 
The agencies in question have the authority to detain people, their uniforms are marked with their agency affiliation and the people are mirandized in the vehicle and are transported for their safety.

i am old enough to remember the Federal Government gunning down protesters, the FBI torching a religious cult burning 93 men women and children to death  and so much more.  Abe Lincoln used the military to shut down newspapers he didn’t like. FDR put Japanese-Americans in camps. Bush The Elder started a war to capture one guy.  Trump is a p#$$y compared to his predecessors in this regard.

 
Sam Quentin said:
The agencies in question have the authority to detain people, their uniforms are marked with their agency affiliation and the people are mirandized in the vehicle and are transported for their safety.

i am old enough to remember the Federal Government gunning down protesters, the FBI torching a religious cult burning 93 men women and children to death  and so much more.  Abe Lincoln used the military to shut down newspapers he didn’t like. FDR put Japanese-Americans in camps. Bush The Elder started a war to capture one guy.  Trump is a p#$$y compared to his predecessors in this regard.
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Yea...we should be taking it to these thugs!!  
 

https://twitter.com/mrolmos/status/1285427135746764800?s=21

 
Obama wrote immigration reform by executive order and used foreign and domestic intelligence services to spy on the opposition party. Obama droned an American citizen and got the courts to agree that the President has that authority.

 
The W Bush administration and the Obama administration (HRC) illegally destroyed thousands of subpoenaed emails and nothing happened.  Brennan, Comey and Clapper blatantly lied under oath and nothing will happen.

 
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