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2021 Miami Dolphins - 4 wins in a row...Defense doing it


SwampDawg

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8 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

Chuck, I don't disagree, but the first "right tackle" is Spenser Brown and he could conceivably be there at 50.  Everyone else in the top 5 of tackles really played left tackle in college and the phins already have 3 projects on the line.  

My feeling on the dolphin line is the way I feel the Pats did it.  Shore up the middle of the line and then worry about the outside.  Again, I will not be upset about a tackle at 6-13 (depending on the move) but defenses do not have to game plan around a tackle.  They do have to game plan for Pitts, Chase, Waddle and likely smith as well as Etienne Harris or J Williams.

If Pitts is there, I think thats an auto-pick.  It would be for me.  Chase is going to be awesome, and I would be so happy if we picked him - but I believe the OL is a bigger priority.  I also think we can get a great WR at 18 or possibly even with one of the 2nds.  In a nutshell, I will be very happy with any of Pitts, Chase, or Sewell.  I would not be disappointed with a trade down for the right price either.  I think the talent is deep in this draft in positions we are coveting, and more picks is great.  I am actually really excited about where Grier has put us.  Aside from over-drafting a guy like Parsons or Slater at 6, I dont feel like I will be unhappy on draft day this year.  

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1 hour ago, ChuckLiddell said:

This is a phenomenal analysis - thank you for sharing it.  I am still reading through it, but this paragraph leads me to believe that Sewell is the player they should be coveting at 6.  If he is gone, I feel like a trade down to a spot where they feel Slater will still be there is the move.  It really all starts on the OL, and after reading this analysis, I feel less confident than I did before...

"While Miami has not been flush with talent at running back or wide receiver, their real offensive issues all circle back to their offensive line performance. Miami ranked 27th in ESPN’s Pass Block Win Rate (51%) and 23rd in their Run Block Win Rate (69%) metrics. Per Pro Football Focus, Miami collectively graded out 21st in pass blocking and 30th in run blocking."

I would normally holler "Amen" but I have been pushing the Front-7 or at least trying to urge that be a major part of these first 4 selections they have. I'm happy to see the spotlight on the OL, they burned 3 picks on them last year and they burned a Top-100 on Michael Dieter who started 15 games as a Rookie when they started 0-7. How many more should they invest? I think another Tackle spot until we figure out if Jackson or Hunt is going to be the better starter moving forward. Kindley could end up losing his spot. I do like Dickerson at Center despite his medical chart from college.  

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The Miami Dolphins 10 Wins...1st 3 wins of 2020 just happen to be the teams picking 1-2-3 in the 2021 Draft, coincidence? 

Down the stretch they beat the Cardinals(16th), Chargers(13th), Bengals(5th), Jets(2nd), Patriots(15th) and the Raiders(17th) with one win vs a Playoff team and that would be the Rams who made the Wildcard. 

It's not like Miami was thumping good teams all season. Lot of work ahead of them.  

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50 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

This has now become an across the board opinion. We all differ in our thoughts about TE/WR at 6 vs trading down and grabbing the top Defensive players after all these Offensive players come off the board. The one guy though who nobody bats an eye when his name is mentioned and we all just nod our heads as if to say yeah we know we need this. 

It's interesting, not saying Penai is the right call or not but it seems like nobody is going to be upset about it. 

Armando would be 😒., and I'm sure some of the fan base would go ballistic if our first 2 picks were Sewell and Rousseau.  

The argument for this draft will be the ones that got away. Miami is in a position for the haters to hate (again Armando Salguero).  Pitts goes at 4 and blows up, then they were dumb for trading out of 3.  They take Waddle over smith etc, etc.

Personally, my hope is Miami basically decided a while ago that they liked Waddle the most or figured that Waddle, Chase, Pitts, Smith and Sewell all are graded out about the same on their board so trade down for more picks.  If, on draft day, the bottom 3 of those guys are what  are there at 6, trade down to 9...

Draft is still a week away...Sigh.

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2 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

The Miami Dolphins 10 Wins...1st 3 wins of 2020 just happen to be the teams picking 1-2-3 in the 2021 Draft, coincidence? 

Down the stretch they beat the Cardinals(16th), Chargers(13th), Bengals(5th), Jets(2nd), Patriots(15th) and the Raiders(17th) with one win vs a Playoff team and that would be the Rams who made the Wildcard. 

It's not like Miami was thumping good teams all season. Lot of work ahead of them.  

Yeah, but how many times have we had a Miami team that lost to teams they should beat?  Beat the poor teams and learn to beat the good ones...

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3 hours ago, TripleThreat said:

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1384869747536375814?s=20

Miami's defense had one of the NFL's best pressure rates and they did it uniquely: rate of rushing only 3 defenders: #1 - Patriots #2 - Panthers #3 - Dolphins rate of rushing 4 defenders: #32 - Dolphins look at their defensive depth and draft needs:

 https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/2021-draft-coverage-miami-dolphins/

I like Sharp... always interesting takes  

Great analysis, using PFF grades, somewhat like what Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald has done over multiple articles. But having it all in one place is great. Warren Sharp was a civil engineer by training, per his bio.

I think CIN takes Sewell and then a speedy quick WR later to complement their physical WRs, Boyd, Higgins and Tate. Then the choice could be Chase or Pitts, whichever one Atlanta doesn't pick, or one of the Alabama WRs.

BTE, why can't Sewell play RT? I'm sure he would also majorly upgrade both guard positions.

 

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4 hours ago, TripleThreat said:

there are a small number of people who's opinion I value who think that Slater might be better than Sewell.  and Slater could be gotten later. 

 

just food for thought.

Some day Slater is a little better at pass protection, but Sewell is better all around. Slater is likely top10, and won't last to 1.18 

 

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8 hours ago, TripleThreat said:

there are a small number of people who's opinion I value who think that Slater might be better than Sewell.  and Slater could be gotten later. 

 

just food for thought.

 

3 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Some day Slater is a little better at pass protection, but Sewell is better all around. Slater is likely top10, and won't last to 1.18 

 

Sewell can clear out an entire side of a field almost single handedly, it's not a stretch when folks call him a generational talent and he could play Right Tackle as easy as Left Tackle. Blind/Side who cares? Think of what he would do to the running game and he would be a Miami Dolphin for like 10 years. 

I want to explain the Tackle position and how it impacts the offense the most. Simply put, when a QB drops back to set up to throw down the field, those Tackle spots have got to hold those Edge guys long enough to allow the QB to operate so if you want to get those WRs 25-35+ yds down the field and stretch the defenses, you gotta have Tackles that can hold and pass protect. Sewell is one of the best at doing that but he adds another wrinkle into the running game and also short screen passes where he can get loose or out ahead and block, go look at some of this guy's tape, I didn't want to believe it until you see it with your own eyes, he has athleticism I've not seen from an OL'man vs what you are used to seeing in the NFL, this kid is fast to boot. 

Anyone remember when Miami drafted Richmond Webb and Keith Sims? Miami went 86, 87, 88 and yes 1989 missed the Playoffs all 4 of prime Marino years, just wasted. We could argue why and much would fall on the Defense but Dwight Stephenson suffered a career ending injury vs the Jets during that time and Keuch retires and they started getting sloppy line play and the running game went totally dead when Tony Nathan retired. I think Webb and Sims were 1990 Draft picks but I could be wrong. Their rookie seasons we knew we had found something that would last on the Left side of that OL. Wish Miami could get some guys we felt really good about and maybe/hopefully a couple are already on the roster and entering Year 2-fingers crossed. 

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Posted (edited)

This really all comes down to what Atlanta does at #4. We all I think agree QB's go 1-2-3

Scenario #1 - Atlanta takes a QB (or trades back with say Denver or Washington) then MIA is sitting pretty. I see Cincy going Chase or Sewell. That leaves Miami to take Pitts or I would take advantage of Jerry Jones, trade back to the #10. I could see Dallas giving up #10 and #44 do move up to get Pitts. Heck Jerry may even give up a 2022 first with the #10 the way he is waxing about Pitts. You get Smith/Waddle/Slater at #10 and get another quality draft pick.  Worse case you stay put and take Pitts and either have a two TE monster game plan or trade Gesiki for draft capital.

Scenario #2 - Atlanta takes Pitts. Seems simple to me, you take Chase or Sewell whoever Cincy doesn't take. You either get one of the best WR prospects in several years or what everyone thinks will be a generational tackle. If you get Chase I would try and trade Parker although I don't know if that is possible given cap numbers. Unlike @Ministry of PainI'm not sold on Parker as a #1. I agree I don't believe he held Tua back, I also don't think he really helped him. He is a 1b or a really good #2 WR, he is not an elite pro bowl guy to me. If you end up with Sewell you get the guy many said was the #2 prospect in the draft before everyone went QB crazy, not bad for moving back three spots and picking up an extra #1 next year.

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  • SwampDawg changed the title to *** Official 2021 Dolphins Thread - TE, WR and OL Oh MY! Who will it be on draft night.
9 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

 

Sewell can clear out an entire side of a field almost single handedly, it's not a stretch when folks call him a generational talent and he could play Right Tackle as easy as Left Tackle. Blind/Side who cares? Think of what he would do to the running game and he would be a Miami Dolphin for like 10 years. 

I want to explain the Tackle position and how it impacts the offense the most. Simply put, when a QB drops back to set up to throw down the field, those Tackle spots have got to hold those Edge guys long enough to allow the QB to operate so if you want to get those WRs 25-35+ yds down the field and stretch the defenses, you gotta have Tackles that can hold and pass protect. Sewell is one of the best at doing that but he adds another wrinkle into the running game and also short screen passes where he can get loose or out ahead and block, go look at some of this guy's tape, I didn't want to believe it until you see it with your own eyes, he has athleticism I've not seen from an OL'man vs what you are used to seeing in the NFL, this kid is fast to boot. 

Anyone remember when Miami drafted Richmond Webb and Keith Sims? Miami went 86, 87, 88 and yes 1989 missed the Playoffs all 4 of prime Marino years, just wasted. We could argue why and much would fall on the Defense but Dwight Stephenson suffered a career ending injury vs the Jets during that time and Keuch retires and they started getting sloppy line play and the running game went totally dead when Tony Nathan retired. I think Webb and Sims were 1990 Draft picks but I could be wrong. Their rookie seasons we knew we had found something that would last on the Left side of that OL. Wish Miami could get some guys we felt really good about and maybe/hopefully a couple are already on the roster and entering Year 2-fingers crossed. 

I think you kind of prove my point here, but it is splitting hairs a bit by me. Qbs, by and large are affected more by pass rush coming up the middle than by the edge. Not completely, mind you, but true pocket passers will tell you a rush up the middle is more devastating to their timing than that which comes from the edge. Marino said so, and the loss of Stephenson miami never recovered from, even with sims and Webb. Brady and Brees pretty Much the same thing. Quentin Nelson basically made the Indy line the best in football.  Can you even name their tackles?   Now, the second thing that helps a qb is a running game or at least the threat of one. We definitely could use some linemen there, but the whole concept of our wrs not having any separation matters. That’s why I’m not as down on d smith as others bc he does get separation 

at the end of the day miami is sitting pretty as far as we, the consensus, are concerned. Chase, pitts, Sewell, slater, waddle smith or a trade down all will make us happy. Hell, even Micha parsons after a trade down and Bateman would likely be something we can get behind. 
 

this draft hinges on two decisions. San Fran at 3 and then Atlanta at 4. If Mac Jones goes 3 the world is our oyster bc both qbs will be there for a needy team. Then comes Atlanta: do they take pitts or a qb?  After that miami either stays and takes chase or pitts or they start working the phones. 

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13 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

I think you kind of prove my point here, but it is splitting hairs a bit by me. Qbs, by and large are affected more by pass rush coming up the middle than by the edge. Not completely, mind you, but true pocket passers will tell you a rush up the middle is more devastating to their timing than that which comes from the edge. Marino said so, and the loss of Stephenson miami never recovered from, even with sims and Webb. Brady and Brees pretty Much the same thing. Quentin Nelson basically made the Indy line the best in football.  Can you even name their tackles?   Now, the second thing that helps a qb is a running game or at least the threat of one. We definitely could use some linemen there, but the whole concept of our wrs not having any separation matters. That’s why I’m not as down on d smith as others bc he does get separation 

at the end of the day miami is sitting pretty as far as we, the consensus, are concerned. Chase, pitts, Sewell, slater, waddle smith or a trade down all will make us happy. Hell, even Micha parsons after a trade down and Bateman would likely be something we can get behind. 
 

this draft hinges on two decisions. San Fran at 3 and then Atlanta at 4. If Mac Jones goes 3 the world is our oyster bc both qbs will be there for a needy team. Then comes Atlanta: do they take pitts or a qb?  After that miami either stays and takes chase or pitts or they start working the phones. 

We are not splitting hairs, we are not saying the same thing. The interior of the OL is where you want your best run blocking to come from, most Centers don't give up a lot of sacks and most Defensive Tackles don't lead the league in sacks. 

If you want to set up in the pocket and have 2-3 seconds to throw the football you gotta have good pass protection from the Tackle. Sure you can't have the Center give up a blitzing LB untouched up the middle but the tackle spots impact the passing game more and the IOL or C/G impact the run game typically more so than pass protection. 

I'm assuming they signed Fuller to stretch the field and in order to have time to find him down field, Miami has gotta have time to set up. Now maybe Jackson/Hunt in Year 2 will be a lot further along than what we saw in 2020, I really hope both take big leaps. Kindley at Guard was a 4th Rd pick, if hunt slid inside or Jackson if need be for this season, whatever is going to maximize what they are lacking right now at RB and to some folks, WR apparently. 

I love @SwampDawgidea of sliding back with Dallas. But I wouldn't slide back. Assume it goes QBx4 then Sewell...I take Pitts and then turn around and trade Gesicki to Dallas for the 44 pick and I am sure Miami can get a 2022 2nd/3rd on top. Or they can trade back assuming Pitts is on the board, take Dallas 10-44 combo and yeah they can likely get a 2022 1st or 2nd on top of that if we are talking Pitts and that's who they want. They couldn't possibly be interested in a WR. 

Det-Car-Den...Chase or Sewell falls into the Lions' lap and then Carolina might take a WR but who knows? Denver IMHO would gobble up QB5 on the board. Miami would be sitting at 10 and likely there still is one of these overhyped WRs you all seem to like. Of all the ones you folks kick around, Waddle scares the ever loving #### out of me, no track record hardly and I would like to see these magical Bama WRs when they get hit which they will in the NFL. Now Elijah Moore as an example, that guy can take a hit, lay out and catch the ball, gain separation, and IMO he is the most NFL ready WR coming out of the Draft and looks like an Emmanuel Sanders or perhaps Brandin Cooks level WR. 

Will Fuller has had some of the most amazing catches over his career so far but for one reason or another and with all that gifted talent, his stats are just OK mostly, amazing in short spurts or a few weeks until the other shoe drops. I would prefer an OJ McDuffie type that shows up week in and week out and can make the tough catches and play within his frame and abilities. 

I still have hope that Miami gets a very juicy offer to move back quite a few spots but in return get a King's ransom for either QB4 or QB5 at the 6 spot. 

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30 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Smith

Chase

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Waddle

-If you ask me

You feel that strongly about a guy who weighs 166 lbs?  He was an amazing college player and probably will be a great pro, but that weight is scary.  He even looks easy to break.  I cannot put him ahead of Chase, for that reason alone.  166 is really small for a 6'1" dude.

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5 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

You feel that strongly about a guy who weighs 166 lbs?  He was an amazing college player and probably will be a great pro, but that weight is scary.  He even looks easy to break.  I cannot put him ahead of Chase, for that reason alone.  166 is really small for a 6'1" dude.

Smith-Waddle-Mac Jones-Harris-Alex Leatherwood-Dickerson, what parts of that Alabama offense were a mirage and which were the real deal? Some of these high drafted names are going to end up looking like they took advantage of all the talent around them. 

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2 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Smith-Waddle-Mac Jones-Harris-Alex Leatherwood-Dickerson, what parts of that Alabama offense were a mirage and which were the real deal? Some of these high drafted names are going to end up looking like they took advantage of all the talent around them. 

Add Tua to your list of high draft choices who benefitted from great talent around them. We'll know by November if Tua is our franchise QB.

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I’d take that Bama talk pretty seriously if they didn’t have a track record of putting guys in the pros who are ballers. 
 

jeudy, ruggs may not jump off the page yet, but Ridley, cooper, Julio?

josh Jacobs, Henry, Kamara, drake 

that’s not even going into the non skill position players. I hate Saban as much as anyone but the fact is he recruits well and these guys play in the toughest division in college football. 
 

Smith made the gators look silly in the sec championship game and that’s with trask,  pitts, and toney, trying to match them score for score. Najee also had a game and the gators were no slouch against the run last year either. 
 

the simple fact that smith, waddle, and chase all took turns owning multiple first round corners in the SEC is really all you need to see. Same thing with pitts. Sure, if a guy sucked you could hide him or try and scheme him open but that’s not what happened in 2019 or 2020. Justin Jefferson (kind of an also ran in the LSU lineup) just lit it up for the Vikings this year. Maybe smith would be Terrance Marshall if, you know, he didn’t put up pinball numbers all year and especially when it mattered the most from the sec championship through the national championship. 
 

Bama is a talent factory right now. Kind of like the canes were way back when or the seminoles and gators were after the canes faded. Smith is 165 and did enough to be the primary receiver in the receiver room that had jeudy, ruggs, and waddle in it. Waddle is comped as ruggs with hands or even another ty hill. 
 

much like Tua over Herbert last year I am sure of the players the dolphins can take at 6 one of the ones they don’t may end up being better than the one they do. That’s the draft and we as fantasy footballers know that. Still, it’s a nice place to be when you don’t need a qb and everyone around you seems to be taking one. 

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Speaking Thursday, Broncos GM George Paton revealed he had spoken with Dolphins GM Chris Grier on Wednesday. 

We will try not to overstate this — it isn't exactly uncommon for GMs to be speaking this time of year — but Paton's admission comes amidst reports the Dolphins would like to trade back down from No. 6, while it would make sense for the quarterback-needy Broncos to move up from No. 9. Paton and Grier also worked together for six years in Miami, so they have a longtime relationship. This is one trade with a real chance of happening between now and next Thursday's first round. 

SOURCE: Zac Stevens on Twitter

Apr 22, 2021, 5:06 PM ET

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If they do trade back with Denver, who is their target?  Seems odd they'd trade up to 6 again if there wasn't someone they really wanted there.  Unless they see Waddle as on par with Chase.

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

If they do trade back with Denver, who is their target?  Seems odd they'd trade up to 6 again if there wasn't someone they really wanted there.  Unless they see Waddle as on par with Chase.

Some of us think Miami could trade back and actually go in another direction since there are so many WRs in this draft. 

Pitts would make for a sick 2-TE Set Offense which wouldn't be bad since Miami has a shaky OL on top of things. 

Miami is going to make a big trade with the Chicago Bears after Atlanta takes Kyle Pitts and Cinci takes Sewell or Chase. Lance or Fields is going to be hanging around and I think Chicago would move a lot, similar to San Fran like 20-52 and 1st in '22, probably 1st in '23 to jump up that much. Grier wants to keep pushing off and stock piling future picks, helps keep his job. 

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3 hours ago, Deamon said:

If they do trade back with Denver, who is their target?  Seems odd they'd trade up to 6 again if there wasn't someone they really wanted there.  Unless they see Waddle as on par with Chase.

Honestly the trade up to 6 never made sense to me. I think it was Grier outsmarting himself a bit, for example thinking another team would trade up for Lance at 4 and he'd still get one of the primo playmakers in Chase or Pitts. Or he's a mad genius who realized he can maybe take advantage of the qb craze twice in the same draft. But I have trouble giving him that much credit. 

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6 hours ago, jtd13 said:

Honestly the trade up to 6 never made sense to me. I think it was Grier outsmarting himself a bit, for example thinking another team would trade up for Lance at 4 and he'd still get one of the primo playmakers in Chase or Pitts. Or he's a mad genius who realized he can maybe take advantage of the qb craze twice in the same draft. But I have trouble giving him that much credit. 

I think it was a lot simpler than that. All you have to do is mock mock mock and you see there is a dead zone starting around pick 10 or so where you have the last of the “top guys”, a bunch of corners (which Miami doesn’t need), and a few players that can go anywhere from 10-22. This was a month ago (when the trade occurred)

a month later, as always, the draft tightens a little, and certain players gain momentum (pitts going from top 10 to top 5, slater, the lb from Kentucky moving into the first round, etc) and others lose momentum (smith and horn) so the picture becomes a little clearer. 
 

that being said, it is all still a little murky simply because Atlanta is the lynchpin. Miami is set to stand pat or move back as they should be. Again, the good news here is there is no wrong answer for Grier and company 

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2 hours ago, Gatorman said:

I think it was a lot simpler than that. All you have to do is mock mock mock and you see there is a dead zone starting around pick 10 or so where you have the last of the “top guys”, a bunch of corners (which Miami doesn’t need), and a few players that can go anywhere from 10-22. This was a month ago (when the trade occurred)

a month later, as always, the draft tightens a little, and certain players gain momentum (pitts going from top 10 to top 5, slater, the lb from Kentucky moving into the first round, etc) and others lose momentum (smith and horn) so the picture becomes a little clearer. 
 

that being said, it is all still a little murky simply because Atlanta is the lynchpin. Miami is set to stand pat or move back as they should be. Again, the good news here is there is no wrong answer for Grier and company 

At 6, any of Sewell, Chase or Pitts would be awesome. Sewell is training at RT, which would force Hunt to compete at guard, likely winning the position, thus improving 2 positions on the line, also improving Tua and the running game. Drafting Sewell at 6 means they might have to reach little for an offensive playmaker later, like Toney or Elijah Moore. 

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While driving around today, I heard multiple national radio stations with experts discussing the draft. The ATL local writer says it's Pitts unless a team makes an incredible offer to move up. The CIN local guy in the know says it's gonna be Chase. They're hopeful that OT was addressed in the off-season and the team needs someone who can take the top off. Also, the team could address IOL in the 2nd round.

That would leave Miami with a choice of Sewell, Smith or Waddle. Or a trade down with perhaps the Broncos. I vote Sewell as BPA.

Edited by SoBeDad
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This article brings up the possibility of us trading UP from 18 to 9.  Interesting.  2 of the top 10 picks would be so much fun!  Chase/Slater?  Sewell/Smith (Waddle)?

https://www.thephinsider.com/2021/4/24/22401377/2021-nfl-draft-rumors-dolphins-looking-to-trade-for-second-top-ten-pick

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4 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

This article brings up the possibility of us trading UP from 18 to 9.  Interesting.  2 of the top 10 picks would be so much fun!  Chase/Slater?  Sewell/Smith (Waddle)?

https://www.thephinsider.com/2021/4/24/22401377/2021-nfl-draft-rumors-dolphins-looking-to-trade-for-second-top-ten-pick

Depends on the cost to make that move. We have many holes to fill so I wouldn’t give up too much draft capital to move up nine slots. Maybe 18/50 to move to 9 but I think the cost would be more than that for that move. Maybe I’m wrong 

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9 hours ago, finfansteve said:

Depends on the cost to make that move. We have many holes to fill so I wouldn’t give up too much draft capital to move up nine slots. Maybe 18/50 to move to 9 but I think the cost would be more than that for that move. Maybe I’m wrong 

Surprisingly, per that article the trade value chart indicates that 18/50 should just about do it.  For that price, if there is someone at 9 that they truly covet the move may make sense.  However, if I am Denver I am not doing that.  

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1.06 Devonta Smith had an amazing year, one for just about ALL Time at Alabama and despite his thinner frame, Miami has to feel like they can work him into the offense and a guy like Fuller can show him the ropes for 1 year and then go his merry way leaving Parker and Smith to run things and Miami will continue to draft WRs in future drafts to gain weapons as turkeys like Albert Wilson and the like find their way off this team. 

-This is what I think Miami is doing and who they want and the ability to trade down and collect multiple picks, burn only one to move back up to get the guy you want(Almost like a free pick) and still field offers thru Draft night in case someone wants to make a crazy offer like if Chicago says here is the 20 and the 52 and a '22 1st and a '23 1st/2nd, yeah I start thinking it might be a good deal to slide back and then target one of the WRs in the 4-7 range on Kiper's Board or any of these so called Draft experts. I'm not endorsing Smith as a good idea but Marino had this guy with 4.2/4.3 speed named Mark Duper who exploded the offense when he burst on the scene along with Marino, Tua could use a speed demon to see what he can do, Fuller is a 1-year bridge and will miss Week 1 to boot if my info is correct. 

-Patriots move up to 4 in order to select Mac Jones and Atlanta moves back to 15. Trey Lance or Justin Fields will be there at 6 so Miami could slide back with Denver perhaps. I see Pitts going to Carolina at 8, not sure about Detroit at 7 but maybe they take the 1st WR off the board with Chase, Miami sits at 9 and takes Smith there. You can debate this until the cows come home but Miami still can squeeze some more juice out of their original pick and select a game changer.

I am focusing on Smith as their top pick, again I might not select him at 6 but I feel like Miami will take him if given the opportunity, hopefully this is not Teddy Ginn Jr all over again 😆.  I know he's way more talented, Smith of course. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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Some trades Miami might need to say NO to...

-Baltimore now owns the 27 and 31 picks, I think they can use both fo them to strengthen an already talented football team. They also can dangle these picks plus future selections plus they have at least 1-2 more in the Top 75-100 this season but Miami needs to avoid going back beyond 9-10 IMHO, that seems to be where the talent pool drops off a lot on offense and even the guys on Defense after say Surtain all have questions that prevent them from being a Top 10 pick, Parsons does come close to hitting the numbers but a lot of off field negatives have surfaced recently, we don't need to debate them, he has his own thread. 

-I have heard about Miami trading 18 and 36 or 18 and 50 plus some future things to move back into the Top 10-12-15 area of the 1st Round :unsure: that scares the heck out of me. We have far too many needs to be packaging things to move up for one savior. It doesn't work that way IMO. 

-The No 36 pick is my favorite and I am anxious to see who Miami will have in mind come Night 2 after they already have 2 in the house from Thursday. However they use the picks, at the end of Pick No 50 I would like to see them have a new skill position player be it TE/WR/RB, also like to see an OL and an Edge/DE/OLB type which leaves one more for anything that would be BPA, that could be a Safety in the 2nd like Grant/Holland/Molden, not coming off my Safety rant, I could live with Nick Bolton getting on this roster somehow someway. 

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I am focusing on Smith as their top pick, again I might not select him at 6 but I feel like Miami will take him if given the opportunity, hopefully this is not Teddy Ginn Jr all over again 😆.  I know he's way more talented, Smith of course. 

Do we get the whole Smith family too?

Ginn was a pretty talented player, but I'm pretty sure Smith is already a better route runner than he ever was. Smith is a great prospect, but all of the top three TE/WRs are. Waddle a tick behind and we already have a speed merchant like Fuller.

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8 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Some trades Miami might need to say NO to...

-Baltimore now owns the 27 and 31 picks, I think they can use both fo them to strengthen an already talented football team. They also can dangle these picks plus future selections plus they have at least 1-2 more in the Top 75-100 this season but Miami needs to avoid going back beyond 9-10 IMHO, that seems to be where the talent pool drops off a lot on offense and even the guys on Defense after say Surtain all have questions that prevent them from being a Top 10 pick, Parsons does come close to hitting the numbers but a lot of off field negatives have surfaced recently, we don't need to debate them, he has his own thread. 

-I have heard about Miami trading 18 and 36 or 18 and 50 plus some future things to move back into the Top 10-12-15 area of the 1st Round :unsure: that scares the heck out of me. We have far too many needs to be packaging things to move up for one savior. It doesn't work that way IMO. 

-The No 36 pick is my favorite and I am anxious to see who Miami will have in mind come Night 2 after they already have 2 in the house from Thursday. However they use the picks, at the end of Pick No 50 I would like to see them have a new skill position player be it TE/WR/RB, also like to see an OL and an Edge/DE/OLB type which leaves one more for anything that would be BPA, that could be a Safety in the 2nd like Grant/Holland/Molden, not coming off my Safety rant, I could live with Nick Bolton getting on this roster somehow someway. 

If Denver covets Fields, who I think is most likely to fall, and they deal with Miami, we would slide down 3 picks and could still get one of Waddle or Smith, or in worse case Slater. We could gain something like a switch of 2021 2nd round picks (Miami's 50th for the Broncos 40th) and a future 2nd. 

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

If Denver covets Fields, who I think is most likely to fall, and they deal with Miami, we would slide down 3 picks and could still get one of Waddle or Smith, or in worse case Slater. We could gain something like a switch of 2021 2nd round picks (Miami's 50th for the Broncos 40th) and a future 2nd. 

Waddle is where I really start to shiver and want Miami to start looking defense even at positions we are already full at presently like Cornerback, at some point we have to be a BPA, feel like that's how we got Minkah originally, we need more of that. 

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6 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Waddle is where I really start to shiver and want Miami to start looking defense even at positions we are already full at presently like Cornerback, at some point we have to be a BPA, feel like that's how we got Minkah originally, we need more of that. 

I wouldn’t shiver when it comes to waddle. You cannot teach speed and by all accounts the guy is a gym rat and a competitor (if you want the duper analogy, he may be the guy). 
 

the dolphins have done quite well the past few years letting the draft come to them. Tunsil they had no shot at until they did. Same with minkah. Same with tua/Herbert. Again, pitts, chase, smith, waddle, Sewell and slater will be their talent pool to pick from at 6 along with trade downs with Denver and even like MOP says Chicago. 
 

looking forward to the draft finally happening 

 

ps. As for Ted ginn. In hindsight he had a 19 year career in the nfl. Not saying he was worth it at 9 but if saban and Miami would have stayed the course and ginn would have been paired with brees instead of culpepper who knows what happens there. 

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1 hour ago, Gatorman said:

I wouldn’t shiver when it comes to waddle. You cannot teach speed and by all accounts the guy is a gym rat and a competitor (if you want the duper analogy, he may be the guy). 
 

the dolphins have done quite well the past few years letting the draft come to them. Tunsil they had no shot at until they did. Same with minkah. Same with tua/Herbert. Again, pitts, chase, smith, waddle, Sewell and slater will be their talent pool to pick from at 6 along with trade downs with Denver and even like MOP says Chicago. 
 

looking forward to the draft finally happening 

 

ps. As for Ted ginn. In hindsight he had a 19 year career in the nfl. Not saying he was worth it at 9 but if saban and Miami would have stayed the course and ginn would have been paired with brees instead of culpepper who knows what happens there. 

Waddle's stats are petty ho hum, not really understanding the excitement over him honestly. 

33-560-6 as a Soph and 28-591-4TDs as a Junior, he played just 3 years at Alabama, actually has better Freshman numbers...meanwhile Smith has 68-1250-14TDs Jr year and then Senior he posts 117-1850-23TDs, he would seem to be the next in line of Bama WRs that have made their mark in the NFL over the last 8-10 years, Atlanta has 2 of them. I just think Waddle is a total crapshoot vs Smith. Big drop off for me from Chase/Smith to Waddle. 

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8 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Waddle is where I really start to shiver and want Miami to start looking defense even at positions we are already full at presently like Cornerback, at some point we have to be a BPA, feel like that's how we got Minkah originally, we need more of that. 

I wish the Colts were in a position to draft Waddle.  The Dolphins could only be so lucky to be in position to draft him.

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It's simple. BPA, and if the ratings are close, position of need.  Austin Jackson, might get better, but he might not, and he could get injured.

In the Ted Ginn draft, the BPA was 7-time pro bowler Patrick Willis who was drafted 2 picks later.

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54 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I'll take your 21, 54, '22 1st and '23 1st and you can have the 6-pick if you want. 

LOL, you would have to talk me off the bridge if the Colts did something stupid like that.

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Waddle's stats are petty ho hum, not really understanding the excitement over him honestly. 

33-560-6 as a Soph and 28-591-4TDs as a Junior, he played just 3 years at Alabama, actually has better Freshman numbers...meanwhile Smith has 68-1250-14TDs Jr year and then Senior he posts 117-1850-23TDs, he would seem to be the next in line of Bama WRs that have made their mark in the NFL over the last 8-10 years, Atlanta has 2 of them. I just think Waddle is a total crapshoot vs Smith. Big drop off for me from Chase/Smith to Waddle. 

True, and like I said, there is something to be said for Smith regardless of his size, but waddle checks all the boxes in terms of the dreaded "potential".  Only knock on him is he has a smaller body of work and some issues with press coverage (according to Matt Harmon), but speed and separation make him an interesting pick and when he and smith were on the field together Waddle's numbers were a tad better.  He is also a returner so it makes some of the other guys in the phins receiver room superfluous.

Imagine the Miami offense with Waddle, Williams, Parker, Fuller, gesecki and Etienne or Williams coming out of the backfield...

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

LOL, you would have to talk me off the bridge if the Colts did something stupid like that.

Peter king wrote that the San Fran Deal with Miami, and then Miami's deal with philly to move back up likely ruined the compensation numbers for picks this year into the top 10.  Says he doesnt expect much movement in the top of the draft bc of how SF set the market.

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18 hours ago, Desert_Power said:

mith is a great prospect, but all of the top three TE/WRs are. Waddle a tick behind and we already have a speed merchant like Fuller.

There is a pretty good chance that Pitts or Chase is still there at #6.

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10 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

There is a pretty good chance that Pitts or Chase is still there at #6.

I actually did a mock this morning where I was the Bengals.  All the talk of Tackles being available later is all well and good, but the bengals do not have a lot of picks and the WR quality in the later rounds is much deeper than the Tackle quality in the later rounds.  The difference between Sewell and slater plus T Marshall vs Chase and a guy like leahterwood seems to be to be substantial, but I'm not the Bengal brain trust.

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9 minutes ago, Gatorman said:

I actually did a mock this morning where I was the Bengals.  All the talk of Tackles being available later is all well and good, but the bengals do not have a lot of picks and the WR quality in the later rounds is much deeper than the Tackle quality in the later rounds.  The difference between Sewell and slater plus T Marshall vs Chase and a guy like leahterwood seems to be to be substantial, but I'm not the Bengal brain trust.

Not to mention they failed their No 1 pick at QB and got him injured behind an atrocious OL. That's what happens when you start the QB as a Rookie Week 1 but fail to plan for his success, at least Miami can say they invested 3 picks into the OL the same year they drafted Tua and I anticipate they invest either 50 or 81 into the OL during the draft. 

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