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2021 Miami Dolphins - 4 wins in a row...Defense doing it


SwampDawg

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10 hours ago, =Smackdown= said:

Can’t argue with a road win in division.

Will they ever get the Oline right? Eichenberg got absolutely trucked for a sack early in the game.

This is one view  and then slow-mo and kind of shocked Liam wasn't hurt or ended up injuring his leg underneath him but he managed to survive it. 

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7 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

The good news, besides the win, is that 2 rookies, Waddle and Holland, graded out well in pff, even with the drop by Waddle. Liam and Tua had low grades (~57) but I hopeful that Liam will play better at LT, or whatever position they use him. Until last week, he had no reps at LT with Miami. I thought Tua played better than the grade indicates, especially on the 2 TD drives and to seal the game with a nice throw to Parker and a QB run. He was playing a good defense. Per Next-gen stats, Tua had the 4th highest aggressive grade, which is throwing into tight coverage. Parker gets little separation and Waddle was only average. Jalen Phillips didn't play much in the 2nd half, with Jones getting rid of the ball quickly, maybe they wanted a better run stopper. 

https://twitter.com/PFF_RyanSmith/status/1437428968701972490?s=19

Let's talk about that Waddle drop that killed the drive in the 2nd half, right thru his hands wide open as he was breaking to the sidelines, ball was thrown well. 

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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Can we talk about this BS Call which really changed the momentum at that point, add in the Waddle miss and Miami might have won the game a little easier. 

Disagree... that call is pretty standard these days when you hit the QB low.  

People were worried about Waddle...  and I understand the reluctance to take a WR that high and the Ted Ginn after taste... however, I'm more concerned with Tua.  You guys like what you see?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Disagree... that call is pretty standard these days when you hit the QB low.  

People were worried about Waddle...  and I understand the reluctance to take a WR that high and the Ted Ginn after taste... however, I'm more concerned with Tua.  You guys like what you see?

 

 

We'll agree to disagree but to your larger points I'll start off with Waddle then Tua. 

Waddle, I was not at all for the selection and the drop he had in open space running an out pattern in his 1st game, Phins get what they deserve here. I was shocked when I started rolling thru his numbers from college, thought for sure he would have a season or two with 1,000+ yds or maybe a nice 70 catch season, to my knowledge he didn't have any of that, very little in the stats department to go 6th overall. It does scream Ted Ginn all over again but I hope he's even that good at this point, Ginn actually had a semi-decent career, just was drafted too high. I don't see where aWaddle will take over games, people tried to sell him as a Tyreek Hill. Mind you at least some fo his college flashes had to be with Tua at QB when they were at Alabama. 

-Tua needs a lot of work but he seems to have won over at least a good chunk of the fan base but he's not fooling all of us. No power in his throws, weak arm IMO from what I watch and then you have folks that put his name in the same sentence with Marino so there's quite a spectrum of opinion on him. I say weak arm and weak hip now that limits his ability to get under his throws and push down the field. 

A win is a win I guess. 

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On 9/13/2021 at 8:41 PM, Ministry of Pain said:

We'll agree to disagree but to your larger points I'll start off with Waddle then Tua. 

Waddle, I was not at all for the selection and the drop he had in open space running an out pattern in his 1st game, Phins get what they deserve here. I was shocked when I started rolling thru his numbers from college, thought for sure he would have a season or two with 1,000+ yds or maybe a nice 70 catch season, to my knowledge he didn't have any of that, very little in the stats department to go 6th overall. It does scream Ted Ginn all over again but I hope he's even that good at this point, Ginn actually had a semi-decent career, just was drafted too high. I don't see where aWaddle will take over games, people tried to sell him as a Tyreek Hill. Mind you at least some fo his college flashes had to be with Tua at QB when they were at Alabama. 

-Tua needs a lot of work but he seems to have won over at least a good chunk of the fan base but he's not fooling all of us. No power in his throws, weak arm IMO from what I watch and then you have folks that put his name in the same sentence with Marino so there's quite a spectrum of opinion on him. I say weak arm and weak hip now that limits his ability to get under his throws and push down the field. 

A win is a win I guess. 

 

I hope you're wrong about Waddle.  One drop isn't a trend and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on first game jitters.  I am concerned that Tua's inability to push the ball downfield will limit Jaylen.

I can't tolerate any Marino comparisons.  We both know why...  You look around the league at the Herberts or some of these other young, running QBs and I guess I'm a little jealous/frustrated.

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On 9/16/2021 at 7:37 PM, TripleThreat said:

I can't thank you enough TT for bringing quality info and clips into the Dolphins season long thread. 

Instead of arguing or debating, you just bring game tape and footage and say "OK, how about this?" and I just love watching guys like the one you linked t on Youtube, you never see that kind of in depth coverage from any of the mainstreams like ESPN, FOX Sports, etc...

Cheers TT

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Josh Allen has Miami's numbers. Multiple player of the week awards, the final nail in Van Noy's departure for his poor pass coverage in both losses to the Bills. Herald beat writer Barry Jackson rewatched the dismantling of Miami in the finale last year and wrote on what went wrong and potentially how to fix it. Guys who were good all year, like Howard and Needham, struggled mightily vs Allen and company. Multiple improvements would have to happen to just maintain the Bills offense, unlikely. So, the only answer is for Tua to have a great game, which I don't expect vs a very good defense.  Tua was hurt by multiple drops in that finale. 

We'll also see Rousseau and Phillips in the same game, so there'll be discussion about whether Miami picked the right guy from the U.

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FIRE THEM ALL.

Rebuild? TUA is a total Bust.

OL a total bust.

This team is a joke. I am pretty much at my wits end with Steven Ross and this clown show.

21 years of absolute garbage. 

My god.....a waste of my time on Sunday......time to truly adopt a new team.

Hey.....I got it. The LA Chargers. I wanted Herbert...badly....Go Chargers!!!!

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2 hours ago, Todem said:

FIRE THEM ALL.

Rebuild? TUA is a total Bust.

OL a total bust.

This team is a joke. I am pretty much at my wits end with Steven Ross and this clown show.

21 years of absolute garbage. 

My god.....a waste of my time on Sunday......time to truly adopt a new team.

Hey.....I got it. The LA Chargers. I wanted Herbert...badly....Go Chargers!!!!

And I thought I was going to light a blowtorch this evening but no need to get in anybody's way here. 

The 1-point win last week at Foxsboro had a lot of folks feeling righteous but it felt pretty empty and the 35-0 drubbing today only backed up some of our thoughts. 

I don't see any way fans can defend Tua rght now but I'm sure I will be reading about it this week. 

Will this turn into Tim Tebow? Is this TT 2.0 all over again? Worry about Flores

Agree that as long as Ross is running things we are pretty much dead to rights and it has been easy semi-rooting for the Bucs the last 12+ months even though it took a long time for Brady to wear me down. It's obvious what a winner does when they enter the building. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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  • SwampDawg changed the title to *** Official 2021 Dolphins Thread - Heads need to roll, Tua? Flores? Who?
5 minutes ago, =Smackdown= said:

Haven’t seen an ### whooping like that since they played the Bills late last year.

Embarrassing home opener. They have a looong way to go.

Maybe one of these decades they’ll finally be able to build an OLine.

In spite of the horrific oline play, they could've scored 20 points, if Parker holds onto the ball in the endzone, Grant doesn't fumble, and Flores goes for 2 FGs.  I expect some changes on the line this week and perhaps more 2 TE sets. Jackson has been very bad at pass protection since game 1, and with Brisett likely at QB, we'll need a better LT, let's see what Liam can do. Jackson needs to compete at guard, or be a backup tackle.

Grier is getting national attention for his poor 6 first round picks in the last 3 years, including the Jackson selection at 1.16 in 2020 and passing on Sewell for Waddle in a 2021 draft deep at WR. AND using a 2022 3rd rounder to select Liam, when Sewell at 1.06 would've done the job. Somehow, Grier's later round selections have been more successful.

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37 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I understand passion. But no one here is even remotely suggesting Brian Flores should go are they?

 

Great question and will likely get discussed in a few circles but I think most Miami fans were very happy with 10-6 last year and want this coach to stay. I would assume he has a direct hand in these selections with Grier and I DO NOT want to see Miami do one of these "Let go GM, keep the HC" and then that doesn't work and a year or two later the coach is fired and now everyone is guessing where to place direct blame. 

As painful as it would be to see a guy like Flores go who has been outstanding as far as coaching but you cannot overlook the 6 1st Rd picks Miami has selected and look back thru these drafts and Miami has blundered or not hit an initial Home Run on almost all of them. Some of that will have to be placed on the coaches door but I imagine Grier will be let go before there is much discussion about Flores being let go and I doubt many fans are clamoring for Flores' job at the moment. 

But Chris Grier, the main front office guy, he is going to be discussed on the chop block pretty soon and some of us have been critical of almost all the selections AT THE TIME of the picks so this isn't really new conversation or ground for some of us. 

-But to your question Joe, this would be a bad time to start running Flores out of here, after stripping it bare, going 0-7, this guy put together a 15-10 run and it proved he can coach in this league. I think he needs a better QB, Tua is not the answer. How involved was he in that pick? That's really what most of it will boil down to I would think. But the larger point, ownership here is meddlesome and Bottom 3-5 in the NFL for sure. Hard to overcome that. 

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36 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Great question and will likely get discussed in a few circles but I think most Miami fans were very happy with 10-6 last year and want this coach to stay. I would assume he has a direct hand in these selections with Grier and I DO NOT want to see Miami do one of these "Let go GM, keep the HC" and then that doesn't work and a year or two later the coach is fired and now everyone is guessing where to place direct blame. 

As painful as it would be to see a guy like Flores go who has been outstanding as far as coaching but you cannot overlook the 6 1st Rd picks Miami has selected and look back thru these drafts and Miami has blundered or not hit an initial Home Run on almost all of them. Some of that will have to be placed on the coaches door but I imagine Grier will be let go before there is much discussion about Flores being let go and I doubt many fans are clamoring for Flores' job at the moment. 

But Chris Grier, the main front office guy, he is going to be discussed on the chop block pretty soon and some of us have been critical of almost all the selections AT THE TIME of the picks so this isn't really new conversation or ground for some of us. 

-But to your question Joe, this would be a bad time to start running Flores out of here, after stripping it bare, going 0-7, this guy put together a 15-10 run and it proved he can coach in this league. I think he needs a better QB, Tua is not the answer. How involved was he in that pick? That's really what most of it will boil down to I would think. But the larger point, ownership here is meddlesome and Bottom 3-5 in the NFL for sure. Hard to overcome that. 

Strange how the Grier and Flores value athleticism on many selections, over actual performance, but not at QB. Jackson, Noah, Phillips are elite athletes, but it hasn't translated to the field yet. BTW, most pundits and Dolphans agreed with the Tua pick, happy that he "fell" to #5. You and Chris Simms were in a minority about Herbert over Tua during the draft.

Grier was a college scout in the past. He's hit on later round picks, such as Sanders, Gaskins, Van Ginkle, and others. But has missed on many early picks. And I think he went all in on Tua needing more weapons, hence the very expensive trade up for Waddle - our first rounder in 2022 to move up a measly 6 spots. Flores has really gone through coordinators on offensive. With this defense, and bad oline, they need to consider a Josh McDaniels quick decision approach on offense. 

If Miami has a bad record in 2021, and SF a very good record, Grier's gift to Philly in the draft will make him more criticized by Dolphans. Flores is safe, but Grier is on the hot seat. I'm keeping an eye on how Sewell and Rousseau perform in 2021. We already know Herbert is a franchise QB.

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11 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Strange how the Grier and Flores value athleticism on many selections, over actual performance, but not at QB. Jackson, Noah, Phillips are elite athletes, but it hasn't translated to the field yet. BTW, most pundits and Dolphans agreed with the Tua pick, happy that he "fell" to #5. You and Chris Simms were in a minority about Herbert over Tua during the draft.

Grier was a college scout in the past. He's hit on later round picks, such as Sanders, Gaskins, Van Ginkle, and others. But has missed on many early picks. And I think he went all in on Tua needing more weapons, hence the very expensive trade up for Waddle - our first rounder in 2022 to move up a measly 6 spots. Flores has really gone through coordinators on offensive. With this defense, and bad oline, they need to consider a Josh McDaniels quick decision approach on offense. 

If Miami has a bad record in 2021, and SF a very good record, Grier's gift to Philly in the draft will make him more criticized by Dolphans. Flores is safe, but Grier is on the hot seat. I'm keeping an eye on how Sewell and Rousseau perform in 2021. We already know Herbert is a franchise QB.

Getting shutout at home in the opener as well as being blown out by 35 has to be sending these 2 OC which is what they did, combined 2 guys into 1 position and I thought it was a bad idea, was not super familiar with their work or where they had done great things previously but here they are and I believe Flores is the one who made it a combination of 2 guys, so again does that decision fall on his shoulders? 

You have to answer a lot of questions when you open the season avg single digits on offense. 

-How ready was Jacoby to enter the game this past Sunday? He didn't look good but i imagine a week of practice if Tua is out or cannot start, maybe he would fare better but Miami looks like they are taking major steps backwards. 

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No one wants Flores fired yet but the days of patience and understanding that we are in a rebuild and considering any wins a bonus are over. It's time to be a serious contender and if they're not those questions about Flores will start getting serious. 

The honeymoon period is over. 

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5 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

I understand passion. But no one here is even remotely suggesting Brian Flores should go are they?

 

The short answer Joe is that Flores was the only coach in 2019 who signed a 5 year fully guaranteed contract. Now I would assume either this next off season or soon they have to start discussing extension, even a year or two added on top but the reality is Flores was signed a full 5 years and I expect him and Miami to honor that. 

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14 minutes ago, TripleThreat said:

I don't want Flores fired...  I want the OL fixed.  If he and Grier can't get it fixed, then find the people who can.  

Regarding LT Austin Jackson, who is getting more blame than anyone, note that 4 OTs were selected before Jackson was chosen with the 18th pick in 2020.  He was considered an athletic project. Most of the remaining top tackles on PFFs pre-draft list are playing guard in the NFL. I think that's where Jackson ends up. 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 Miami Dolphins - Heads need to roll, Tua? Flores? Who?
On 9/22/2021 at 11:17 AM, TripleThreat said:

Per Darlington Tua out... fractured ribs. 

Hey Grier, maybe trade for some OL help if you wanna keep your job.  

It's troublesome that he might be fired or lose his job after wasting a lot of 1st round picks and for his final gamble he is going to gather up all remaining 1st and 2nd and trade for Watson. 

Grier won't go down quietly and I don't think the next trade will look as good as Tunsil did although he could not hit on the picks.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

It's troublesome that he might be fired or lose his job after wasting a lot of 1st round picks and for his final gamble he is going to gather up all remaining 1st and 2nd and trade for Watson. 

Grier won't go down quietly and I don't think the next trade will look as good as Tunsil did although he could not hit on the picks.

 

What if Brissett excels, like he did in Indy for half a year or more? Unlikely, but he's played behind Brady, Luck and Rivers when he wasn't starting. 

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8 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

What if Brissett excels, like he did in Indy for half a year or more? Unlikely, but he's played behind Brady, Luck and Rivers when he wasn't starting. 

I pray after that 35-0 debacle in the home opener that Miami has something planned for the Raiders this weekend who I think might not be quite as strong as that unbeaten record might indicate. 

I would love to see Brissett do well but if there is an option to bring in Watson, Miami has to try and do it. 

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I pray after that 35-0 debacle in the home opener that Miami has something planned for the Raiders this weekend who I think might not be quite as strong as that unbeaten record might indicate. 

I would love to see Brissett do well but if there is an option to bring in Watson, Miami has to try and do it. 

Brissett is confident, FWIW. He's like, Tua, really.

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6 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Brissett is confident, FWIW. He's like, Tua, really.

This isn't just for you but I would like to know what folks make of Miami ranking 32 for OL Pass blocking according to Pro Football Focus. 

Rookie LT,  LG-2nd year,  C-Dieter 1st year starting,  RG-2nd Year,  RT-Veteran but mediocre 

1st Round Left Tackle from last season rides the bench as the 6th OL

We stink, not sure if it can get better but it will take time and they seem to be running out of it right now.

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7 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I pray after that 35-0 debacle in the home opener that Miami has something planned for the Raiders this weekend who I think might not be quite as strong as that unbeaten record might indicate. 

I would love to see Brissett do well but if there is an option to bring in Watson, Miami has to try and do it. 

 

As you may remember, I have reservations about Tua and would love to bring in Watson.  However, what IS the deal with him?  I know the Texans are keeping him inactive amidst all his troubles but would the league allow him to be moved/active?

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I’m surprised people want “Heads to roll”. They have done a good job rebuilding this roster. I think Tua was a miss but that doesn’t warrant firing the coach or GM who otherwise seem to be doing a good job. Obviously everyone wishes they had taken Herbert but that’s so revisionist. Nobody wanted Herbert. He was one of the most universally crapped on top 10 QBs in recent memory. Almost nobody was excited about him as a top prospect. Even here, I posted all the things I liked about Herbert and I don’t remember anyone agreeing with me. This isn’t a Wilson over Fields situation. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I’m surprised people want “Heads to roll”. They have done a good job rebuilding this roster. I think Tua was a miss but that doesn’t warrant firing the coach or GM who otherwise seem to be doing a good job. Obviously everyone wishes they had taken Herbert but that’s so revisionist. Nobody wanted Herbert. He was one of the most universally crapped on top 10 QBs in recent memory. Almost nobody was excited about him as a top prospect. Even here, I posted all the things I liked about Herbert and I don’t remember anyone agreeing with me. This isn’t a Wilson over Fields situation. 

Who is "they" and we will assume Flores is one, but who is they? Where do we place the blame for all these busted 1st round picks that we stripped the walls bare for? 

We have a short list of names but we like to compare notes with others, what'cha got? 😂

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On 9/24/2021 at 1:47 PM, SoBeDad said:

What if Brissett excels, like he did in Indy for half a year or more? Unlikely, but he's played behind Brady, Luck and Rivers when he wasn't starting. 

Brisset excelled?  When?  He's started 15+ games in two seasons in his career and never tossed more than 18 tds or 3100 yards in either one.

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11 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Who is "they" and we will assume Flores is one, but who is they? Where do we place the blame for all these busted 1st round picks that we stripped the walls bare for? 

We have a short list of names but we like to compare notes with others, what'cha got? 😂

Grier and his staff. It’s probably too early to make a final decision on any player drafted last year. The team was 10-6 last year despite trying to transition in a rookie QB. The defense played really well. They have some decent weapons on offense, just not sure Tua is the guy. If they can add Watson, Rodgers or a rookie that’s more successful than Tua has been the team could be strong on the offensive side of the ball as well.

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4 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Brisset excelled?  When?  He's started 15+ games in two seasons in his career and never tossed more than 18 tds or 3100 yards in either one.

He excelled as a backup. He’s one of the best backups in the league but you are right,  let’s not romanticize Brisset. He’s merely serviceable. 

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

He excelled as a backup. He’s one of the best backups in the league but you are right,  let’s not romanticize Brisset. He’s merely serviceable. 

I'd argue he's not even that great of a backup after last Sunday's game.  Merely serviceable there.

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2 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

I'd argue he's not even that great of a backup after last Sunday's game.  Merely serviceable there.

I think that’s good for a backup. Unless a team has a highly drafted rookie like Lance or Hurts last year on the team,  the best they can really hope for from a backup QB is serviceable. 

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1 minute ago, wgoldsph said:

I'd argue he's not even that great of a backup after last Sunday's game.  Merely serviceable there.

He had 5 or 6 drops, including one by Parker in the end zone, a fumble by Grant at the 5, no running game, constant pressure. Let's see what he does vs LV with week of prep and Fuller back.

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On 9/25/2021 at 2:57 AM, Ministry of Pain said:

I pray after that 35-0 debacle in the home opener that Miami has something planned for the Raiders this weekend who I think might not be quite as strong as that unbeaten record might indicate.  

From memory the Flores D messed with Carr quite well. This year the DLine and DBs have shown up for and the has made a big difference 

 

looking forward to a good contest

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Pretty interesting reactions here and here is my take. We have a lot of smart football people here who follow the dolphins. For many years we would look at the coaching and fo staff and think, hey, I can do a better job running this team than they can. In the past 20 years (post Marino) I have said that about every coach/gm combination except 2: parcells/sporano and now Grier/flo. 
 

we do need to take a beat and realize they have built a pretty darn good defense that only gets its ### handed to it by the very elite qbs and even then they flummoxed the rams and kyler Murray last year while giving mahomes fits in the early part of that game. Only josh allen seems to be immune to the dolphins D. 
 

as for the offense. Well, the curse of the Miami o line continues. When was the last time we had a really good o line?  Ricky Williams?  All the draft capital we have thrown at it and nothing. Tunsil was all world and our line still sucked. Pouncey?  They got us at guard. Incognito? Hey let’s haze the other rookie.  Coke and a stripper?  Check. They basically cleaned house and brought in a bunch of young guys and rather than setting them at a position and coaching them up they keep moving everyone around. I don’t know much about coaching an oline but Jesus Mary and Joseph I do know a line works best when they all have a set spot and learn to work together like a closed fist. Not an open palm. 

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  • SwampDawg changed the title to 2021 Miami Dolphins - 4 wins in a row...Defense doing it

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